2014 MLB Thread

[TroyF]

Not sure which one mckerney posted as my work filter blocked it. There were three solid ones last night:

The trader one posted above
The Giants sign with the wrong spelling
and the Yankees fan lashing out at Cano for it being all about the money.


Cmon fans, step up your game.

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Subby

Second greatest.

I guess that explains why he wanted to be closer to Wall Street.

[Logan]

Are those American flag patterned Keds?

[mckerney]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Not sure which one mckerney posted as my work filter blocked it. There were three solid ones last night:

The trader one posted above
The Giants sign with the wrong spelling
and the Yankees fan lashing out at Cano for it being all about the money.


Cmon fans, step up your game.

I posted the Cano sign. Misspelling something is one level of stupidity, but a Yankee fan upset about a player just being about the money is something I'll never be able to comprehend.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I posted the Cano sign. Misspelling something is one level of stupidity, but a Yankee fan upset about a player just being about the money is something I'll never be able to comprehend.

Glad it's the one you posted. Maybe this was the single Yankee fan in existence who was for a salary cap (with a salary floor to keep overall spending equal or more than what it is today)

I'm thinking he probably wasn't.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by mckerney

I posted the Cano sign. Misspelling something is one level of stupidity, but a Yankee fan upset about a player just being about the money is something I'll never be able to comprehend.

yeah. good stuff

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bronconick

Brad Ausmus is 2-2 on challenges. Today.

Ivy League, represent!

[Coffee Warlord]

I'd be happy if the Cubs could at least score 1 god damn run.

Goose egg in 10 innings tuesday, goose egg through 7 tonight.

[Coffee Warlord]

Hey, they got a run...on an overturned double play.

[Coffee Warlord]

And I officially hate how replay works. It's just too obnoxious and time consuming.

[Chief Rum]

Angels suck in April... again.

[Lathum]

I used to like Mike Francesa but now I think he is just a bloated windbag.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1743733

[bhlloy]

Angels suck full stop. Turns out you actually need a pitching staff again this year, who'd have thunk it?

Good thing we dealt the most valuable trade chip in the org for a mediocre third baseman this offseason. That's exactly what we needed.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I used to like Mike Francesa but now I think he is just a bloated windbag.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1743733

I really don't get the flak Murphy is getting. It's insane to me. Boomer Esiason was going off about it too. It's a few games at the start of the season. These guys should be ashamed of themselves.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Angels suck full stop. Turns out you actually need a pitching staff again this year, who'd have thunk it?

Good thing we dealt the most valuable trade chip in the org for a mediocre third baseman this offseason. That's exactly what we needed.

Pitching? Yeah, the Angels are getting blasted, but pitching is just a small part of the problem.

They have 17 hits and 4 walks in 27 innings of baseball and have scored 3 runs, 2 runs and 2 runs. I've watched most of the three games and they've looked horrible offensively too. It's scary to think how bad they are with the best offensive player in the game playing for them.

It's early, it's early, it's early. But my God do they look bad right now.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I really don't get the flak Murphy is getting. It's insane to me. Boomer Esiason was going off about it too. It's a few games at the start of the season. These guys should be ashamed of themselves.

yeah. Apparenty the article goes on to say Esiason said Murphys wife should have gotten a c-section before the season.

If you want to be critical of Murphy for the timing of it and say they should have planned more carefuly I can at least buy that, but to say he shouldn't be there is absurd. That is time to bond that you never get back.

[Warhammer]

I don't think they will get better until Scioscia is gone. But, I think DiPoto is going to be the one who gets the axe first unfortunately. I feel that he has done a good job of getting out from the bad moves that Reagins made, but unfortunately Arte is still messing with things which has complicated things for the worse.

[Butter]

Reds / Cards going to be another long day for any fans that show up as it will be delayed probably an hour to start, and they may not get it in at all.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Reds / Cards going to be another long day for any fans that show up as it will be delayed probably an hour to start, and they may not get it in at all.

The fact they played last night is absurd to me. They are playing the Cards FFS, not like there wont be tons of chances to make the game up.

As for today, I hope for lots of delays. Reds play the Mets tomorrow.

[Butter]

I think they tried to get it in knowing that today actually looked worse rain-wise. Nobody wants to make up 2 games out of the opening series.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I don't think they will get better until Scioscia is gone. But, I think DiPoto is going to be the one who gets the axe first unfortunately. I feel that he has done a good job of getting out from the bad moves that Reagins made, but unfortunately Arte is still messing with things which has complicated things for the worse.

I actually like most of DiPoto's moves this offseason. Like bhlloy, I was not excited to see Bourjos moved for Freese, although I disagree with him that Bourjos was key to getting a great pitcher somehow. I just didn't like the value on that trade.

I also did not like that we dealt Grichuk in the Trumbo deal, as the last thing we need is to deal away one of our few decent prospects. That said, I feel the Trumbo deal will end up being massive overall positive, since Trumbo was a one trick pony with issues elsewhere (plate discipline, foot speed, defense, etc.), and you have to like turning a guy like that into two-fifths of your rotation.

I actually am not sure DiPoto gets the axe before Scioscia any more. I feel like this offseason was a win for the DiPoto model. There are sabermetric/data analysis guys on staff now, and more coaches. Arte didn't force DiPoto to make any big splashy contract moves like he had in past years. There weren't too many obvious "Scioscia" moves this offseason. We still have our first round pick.

I said last April that Scioscia needed a good start this season or I would be 100% behind firing him. I still stand by that. If this team continues to play poorly to start again, even with a spring training emphasis on getting off to a good start, I fully believe Scioscia needs to go. For a team, with this payroll, four years without a playoff visit is unacceptable.

FWIW, as bad as the offense has been, there shouldn't be many worries there. In the end, this team will hit. It did last year (5th or 6th in AL in runs scored, I believe) and that was with Pujols out most of the year and Hamilton in a year long slump. This team's success will come down to the pitching again.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I don't think they will get better until Scioscia is gone. But, I think DiPoto is going to be the one who gets the axe first unfortunately. I feel that he has done a good job of getting out from the bad moves that Reagins made, but unfortunately Arte is still messing with things which has complicated things for the worse.

I really like Scoscia. Maybe he's been there too long, but I still like him. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do.

He gets Pujos and Hamilton to put in the middle of his order and they play like guys who should be hitting 6th and 7th in the order. They have two good guys at the front of the rotation, one or two relievers worth a crap, one up and coming pitcher in Skaggs (who hasn't pitched yet this year) and then paper clips and glue. What exactly is the guy supposed to manage with?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I used to like Mike Francesa but now I think he is just a bloated windbag.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.1743733

The union agreement supersedes FMLA?

[JPhillips]

I just saw that Tony Cingrani now has 19 career starts and in none of them has he given up more than five hits. He hasn't generally gone deep into games, but that's still a great stat.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

The union agreement supersedes FMLA?

It may since it is collectivly bargined but I have no idea.

Regardless, I doubt any ballplayers would take it since you don't get paid on FMLA.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

The union agreement supersedes FMLA?

I think FMLA depends on how many employees a company has. Under a certain amount of employees, they don't have to grant FMLA. It's been quite a few years since I had to deal with FMLA issues, so take what I said with a couple of grains of salt.

And this macho shit, get back to your team...fuck that! That's my kid and my wife, they take precedence over anything else. Francesa is a complete shit bag.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I really like Scoscia. Maybe he's been there too long, but I still like him. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do.

He gets Pujos and Hamilton to put in the middle of his order and they play like guys who should be hitting 6th and 7th in the order. They have two good guys at the front of the rotation, one or two relievers worth a crap, one up and coming pitcher in Skaggs (who hasn't pitched yet this year) and then paper clips and glue. What exactly is the guy supposed to manage with?

Yeah, I agree with this. On top of this he's being forced to play with guys that really aren't his style, and guys like Bourjos who are his style get dealt away to make room. If/when he's canned, I'd be happy for him getting out of this mess

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I just saw that Tony Cingrani now has 19 career starts and in none of them has he given up more than five hits. He hasn't generally gone deep into games, but that's still a great stat.

He's a pleasure to have in my Strat-O-Matic league, stuck out 15 in 7 innings for me against my arch nemesis.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I actually like most of DiPoto's moves this offseason. Like bhlloy, I was not excited to see Bourjos moved for Freese, although I disagree with him that Bourjos was key to getting a great pitcher somehow. I just didn't like the value on that trade.

I also did not like that we dealt Grichuk in the Trumbo deal, as the last thing we need is to deal away one of our few decent prospects. That said, I feel the Trumbo deal will end up being massive overall positive, since Trumbo was a one trick pony with issues elsewhere (plate discipline, foot speed, defense, etc.), and you have to like turning a guy like that into two-fifths of your rotation.

I actually am not sure DiPoto gets the axe before Scioscia any more. I feel like this offseason was a win for the DiPoto model. There are sabermetric/data analysis guys on staff now, and more coaches. Arte didn't force DiPoto to make any big splashy contract moves like he had in past years. There weren't too many obvious "Scioscia" moves this offseason. We still have our first round pick.

I said last April that Scioscia needed a good start this season or I would be 100% behind firing him. I still stand by that. If this team continues to play poorly to start again, even with a spring training emphasis on getting off to a good start, I fully believe Scioscia needs to go. For a team, with this payroll, four years without a playoff visit is unacceptable.

FWIW, as bad as the offense has been, there shouldn't be many worries there. In the end, this team will hit. It did last year (5th or 6th in AL in runs scored, I believe) and that was with Pujols out most of the year and Hamilton in a year long slump. This team's success will come down to the pitching again.

A guy who was a 5 WAR player in his only full time season and a top 5 defensive CF (and still under team control) could have at least got a couple of valuable bullpen pieces, if not the bottom three starter this team desperately needs. To get Freese and a terrible reliever plus giving up one of the few remaining prospects in the org worth a shit was an abysmal trade, and I have zero faith in DiPoto after that I'm afraid, even if many of the precious mistakes came from the previous regime or from the owner

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

Reds / Cards going to be another long day for any fans that show up as it will be delayed probably an hour to start, and they may not get it in at all.

Game expected to start between 3 and 4 PM, if no more showers develop behind existing storm.

[path12]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

Angels suck full stop. Turns out you actually need a pitching staff again this year, who'd have thunk it?

Good thing we dealt the most valuable trade chip in the org for a mediocre third baseman this offseason. That's exactly what we needed.

Well, c'mon, what did you expect against the SEATTLE MARINER JUGGERNAUT?!!?!!

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, c'mon, what did you expect against the SEATTLE MARINER JUGGERNAUT?!!?!!

2014 AL MVP Race:

#5 - Derek Jeter
#4 - Grady Sizemore
#3 - Miguel Cabrera
#2 - Mike Trout
#1 - The one, the only. . . Justin Smoak

[Neuqua]

No need to talk about the NL MVP voting, Bonifacio is going to have about 300 hits for the Cubs this season.

[Coffee Warlord]

Tell you what, the Cubs pitchers are leading the league in epic hair and beards.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I really like Scoscia. Maybe he's been there too long, but I still like him. I'm not sure what he's supposed to do.

He gets Pujos and Hamilton to put in the middle of his order and they play like guys who should be hitting 6th and 7th in the order. They have two good guys at the front of the rotation, one or two relievers worth a crap, one up and coming pitcher in Skaggs (who hasn't pitched yet this year) and then paper clips and glue. What exactly is the guy supposed to manage with?

I disagree with the talent how you put it here. There's some thought that Richards is better than Skaggs. If they're both up and coming, that's four-fifths solid pitching, and Santiago isn't bad either, although he didn't look it last night. I agree that the pen continues to be an issue, but I have always felt if there is one area that is always ripe for mismanagement, it is the pen. And the Angels have had some good relief guys go to crap here. It happens far too often, really. I have seen some very strange moves from Scioscia over the years with the pen, going to the wrong guy at the wrong time or pulling a guy too soon or too late.

As for the lineup, if guys consistently under perform, you have to start looking at management. The underperformance of hitters in Anaheim has cost two hitting coaches their jobs the past three seasons. At some point, you have start looking at the manager. And he has made odd lineup decisions and relied too much on old school thinking at times, and with his over-emphasis on defense at some spots, like catcher. Having a defense first guy in the lineup is fine--if he's at least within a whisker of league average hitting. If he's riding the Mendoza line, no defense is worth that. Scioscia also isn't much for plate discipline. Very much a hit to make contact guy, which lowers the OBP and increases strikeouts. None of this helps the offense (which nonetheless manages to get runs in spite of this because of the talent in the lineup).

It sounds like I can't stand Scioscia and that's not true at all. I think he's a terrific players manager, and he definitely brings value to the clubhouse. But at some point, something has to give and if your team is looking at a fourth or fifth straight poor start to the season and the fifth straight year not making the playoffs in the country's #2 media market, you're not doing your job.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

A guy who was a 5 WAR player in his only full time season and a top 5 defensive CF (and still under team control) could have at least got a couple of valuable bullpen pieces, if not the bottom three starter this team desperately needs. To get Freese and a terrible reliever plus giving up one of the few remaining prospects in the org worth a shit was an abysmal trade, and I have zero faith in DiPoto after that I'm afraid, even if many of the precious mistakes came from the previous regime or from the owner

It wasn't the best trade, no, but I don't consider a quality starter to have been likely to have been had for Bourjos, and I don't think two bullpen pieces are much better in overall quality than what we got in Freese and Salazar. I would agree that regardless of the matter of value, I would have rather gotten those two valuable pieces than Freese and Salazar.

[Lathum]

This Mets bullpen could be all time bad.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I disagree with the talent how you put it here. There's some thought that Richards is better than Skaggs. If they're both up and coming, that's four-fifths solid pitching, and Santiago isn't bad either, although he didn't look it last night. I agree that the pen continues to be an issue, but I have always felt if there is one area that is always ripe for mismanagement, it is the pen. And the Angels have had some good relief guys go to crap here. It happens far too often, really. I have seen some very strange moves from Scioscia over the years with the pen, going to the wrong guy at the wrong time or pulling a guy too soon or too late.

As for the lineup, if guys consistently under perform, you have to start looking at management. The underperformance of hitters in Anaheim has cost two hitting coaches their jobs the past three seasons. At some point, you have start looking at the manager. And he has made odd lineup decisions and relied too much on old school thinking at times, and with his over-emphasis on defense at some spots, like catcher. Having a defense first guy in the lineup is fine--if he's at least within a whisker of league average hitting. If he's riding the Mendoza line, no defense is worth that. Scioscia also isn't much for plate discipline. Very much a hit to make contact guy, which lowers the OBP and increases strikeouts. None of this helps the offense (which nonetheless manages to get runs in spite of this because of the talent in the lineup).

It sounds like I can't stand Scioscia and that's not true at all. I think he's a terrific players manager, and he definitely brings value to the clubhouse. But at some point, something has to give and if your team is looking at a fourth or fifth straight poor start to the season and the fifth straight year not making the playoffs in the country's #2 media market, you're not doing your job.

OK, You yourself said the lineup finished 7th in runs scored last year which is a minor miracle when you consider it was Trout and a log of guys sucking badly. Is he sitting a silver slugger catcher that I've missed or is he playing the best catcher on the team? I liked Ianneta as a Rockie, but he's not exactly a bomber. As for the pitching, he's throwing out the best arms he has to work with.

If Pujos and Hamilton were joining Trout in making the team a murderers row and they still weren't winning, I'd throw blame at the manager. The reality is the team isn't very good. If Hamilton and Pujos don't start hitting, that isn't going to change. I don't care who the manager is.

[Warhammer]

Some of my issues are:

1). Trout should be batting lead off. When he gets on base, he causes all sorts of issues for the opposing pitcher.
2). I firmly believe he has been behind several of the questionable GM decisions over the last few years. Napoli should be the starting catcher, but he clearly preferred Mathis and the guaranteed out he was for some reason.
3). His pitching management has been atrocious the last few years. Supposedly he was micromanaging Wilson the other night, which accounted for him being so passive on the mound rather than attacking the batters as he had during the Spring.
4). He has repeatedly messed with player development favoring underperforming vets vs. young and upcoming talent (V. Wells)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

OK, You yourself said the lineup finished 7th in runs scored last year which is a minor miracle when you consider it was Trout and a log of guys sucking badly. Is he sitting a silver slugger catcher that I've missed or is he playing the best catcher on the team? I liked Ianneta as a Rockie, but he's not exactly a bomber. As for the pitching, he's throwing out the best arms he has to work with.

If Pujos and Hamilton were joining Trout in making the team a murderers row and they still weren't winning, I'd throw blame at the manager. The reality is the team isn't very good. If Hamilton and Pujos don't start hitting, that isn't going to change. I don't care who the manager is.

The lineup had talent last year, just like it does this year. Even with Pujols missing much of the season and Hamilton slumping, they still had a what by any other hitter's standards would be a decent power hitting Hamilton, the aforementioned Trout, Trumbo, and Kendrick with a strong year, and JB Shuck having what I believe will turn out to be a career year. Bourjos and Calhoun saw time as well and played solidly when up/not hurt. The lineup underachiveed next to its talent, but it was still a strong lineup and that's why it did well. Scioscia did not mastermind some decent offense out of mish mash of crappy parts.

You have to remember I am not just talking about 2013. Warhammer brings up the specific catcher problem, going back to Napoli-Mathis. The front office finally had to fix the Scioscia defensive catcher playing time problem by releasing Mathis and signing Iannetta, insuring Scioscia only had offensive options there, along with Conger.

He has some talented arms on the staff--and they have generally underperformed for him. Veteran pitchers rarely exceed their past performances and usually underachieve, and young pitchers when he has them don't develop into anything but inconsistent players. Look at Jordan Walden--he was lost under Scioscia's management and he has become a bulwark of Atlanta's pen. Fernando Rodney, while not exactly a rock of production with the Tigers, was solid there, came to the Angels and was abysmal, and then left for Tampa Bay and became a star closer the following season. Scioscia's handling of his pitchers in game has been pretty bad going back for some time now.

This team had 90+ win talent last season and was the pick by just about everyone to win the AL West, and if not do so, at least a cinch to get to the playoffs. Instead, they were under .500. They have had a payroll in the top 5 for 7-8 years now, but they haven't been to the postseason since 2009. That was under three different GMs. At some point, you have to look at the manager, too.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Some of my issues are:

1). Trout should be batting lead off. When he gets on base, he causes all sorts of issues for the opposing pitcher.
2). I firmly believe he has been behind several of the questionable GM decisions over the last few years. Napoli should be the starting catcher, but he clearly preferred Mathis and the guaranteed out he was for some reason.
3). His pitching management has been atrocious the last few years. Supposedly he was micromanaging Wilson the other night, which accounted for him being so passive on the mound rather than attacking the batters as he had during the Spring.
4). He has repeatedly messed with player development favoring underperforming vets vs. young and upcoming talent (V. Wells)

Ditto to all this. And it's well known Scioscia has been heavily involved in player personnel decisions for the past several years, pretty much ever since Stoneman stepped down.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The lineup had talent last year, just like it does this year. Even with Pujols missing much of the season and Hamilton slumping, they still had a what by any other hitter's standards would be a decent power hitting Hamilton, the aforementioned Trout, Trumbo, and Kendrick with a strong year, and JB Shuck having what I believe will turn out to be a career year. Bourjos and Calhoun saw time as well and played solidly when up/not hurt. The lineup underachiveed next to its talent, but it was still a strong lineup and that's why it did well. Scioscia did not mastermind some decent offense out of mish mash of crappy parts.

You have to remember I am not just talking about 2013. Warhammer brings up the specific catcher problem, going back to Napoli-Mathis. The front office finally had to fix the Scioscia defensive catcher playing time problem by releasing Mathis and signing Iannetta, insuring Scioscia only had offensive options there, along with Conger.

He has some talented arms on the staff--and they have generally underperformed for him. Veteran pitchers rarely exceed their past performances and usually underachieve, and young pitchers when he has them don't develop into anything but inconsistent players. Look at Jordan Walden--he was lost under Scioscia's management and he has become a bulwark of Atlanta's pen. Fernando Rodney, while not exactly a rock of production with the Tigers, was solid there, came to the Angels and was abysmal, and then left for Tampa Bay and became a star closer the following season. Scioscia's handling of his pitchers in game has been pretty bad going back for some time now.

This team had 90+ win talent last season and was the pick by just about everyone to win the AL West, and if not do so, at least a cinch to get to the playoffs. Instead, they were under .500. They have had a payroll in the top 5 for 7-8 years now, but they haven't been to the postseason since 2009. That was under three different GMs. At some point, you have to look at the manager, too.

The people picking the Angels to win 90+ games were doing it based on Pujos and Hamilton being good. Not being "an ok power guy" No, being very, very good. They combined to produce 38 HR, 143 RBI. If people had assumed they were going to have an OPS comparable to Justin Smoak and JJ Hardy, I'm fairly certain nobody on the planet would have picked the Angels to win 90 games.

As I said earlier, maybe he's been there too long. Maybe you guys are right and his decisions are the reason the Angels are where they are. I look at that team and see this:

1) The best player on the planet
2) The two other "best" lineup regulars on the team looking slightly above average.
3) A pitching staff that has a decent front two and no clear cut reliable guy in the pen.

FWIW, I wasn't one who thought they would win last year even before the start of the season. This was essentially what I thought of them at that point. The only thing that gave me optimism was the depth Bourjas and Trumbo provided. Now that's gone and I see nothing to indicate the talent level is worth a crap.

Now, it's been three games. Hamilton and Puljos stay healthy and start to hit, I'll revise my opinion.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by TroyF

The people picking the Angels to win 90+ games were doing it based on Pujos and Hamilton being good. Not being "an ok power guy" No, being very, very good. They combined to produce 38 HR, 143 RBI. If people had assumed they were going to have an OPS comparable to Justin Smoak and JJ Hardy, I'm fairly certain nobody on the planet would have picked the Angels to win 90 games.

As I said earlier, maybe he's been there too long. Maybe you guys are right and his decisions are the reason the Angels are where they are. I look at that team and see this:

1) The best player on the planet
2) The two other "best" lineup regulars on the team looking slightly above average.
3) A pitching staff that has a decent front two and no clear cut reliable guy in the pen.

FWIW, I wasn't one who thought they would win last year even before the start of the season. This was essentially what I thought of them at that point. The only thing that gave me optimism was the depth Bourjas and Trumbo provided. Now that's gone and I see nothing to indicate the talent level is worth a crap.

Now, it's been three games. Hamilton and Puljos stay healthy and start to hit, I'll revise my opinion.

To each their own. Even 38 HRs and 143 RBIs sounds like at least one pretty solid power presence between the two of them (call it a 4-5 WARish player), and this team was a good 12-15 below what many thought they were capable of last season.

And keep in mind, this is something from observing this team over years now, not just 2013. Scioscia has been running this team for a long time. When you limit your perspective to 2013, I don't think you're seeing the whole picture.

[MrBug708]

I wonder what Card fans think of this move and how they can try and protect the unspoken rules of baseball?

Matt Adams shoves fan who catches foul ball, fan gives him the finger - SBNation.com

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I wonder what Card fans think of this move and how they can try and protect the unspoken rules of baseball?

Dunno what Cards (or Reds) fans will say but this doesn't-care-diddly-squat-about-either-team baseball fan thinks Adams ought to be looking at some unpaid time off courtesy of MLB.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I wonder what Card fans think of this move and how they can try and protect the unspoken rules of baseball?

Matt Adams shoves fan who catches foul ball, fan gives him the finger - SBNation.com

Far be it for me to defend the Cards, but this angle looks a bit more representative than the chopped up vine on SBNation:

GIF: Matt Adams pushes Reds fan with his glove - CBSSports.com

SI

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Dunno what Cards (or Reds) fans will say but this doesn't-care-diddly-squat-about-either-team baseball fan thinks Adams ought to be looking at some unpaid time off courtesy of MLB.

After watching the video, I tend to agree. This isn't even something you can point to frustration as an excuse. The fan did nothing to impede the play at all. There is no excuse to shove a fan, no matter how minor it is. Especially with the rivalry of the two teams.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Far be it for me to defend the Cards, but this angle looks a bit more representative than the chopped up vine on SBNation:

GIF: Matt Adams pushes Reds fan with his glove - CBSSports.com

SI

I'll change my opinion about getting in the way of the play now. I won't change my opinion about the shove. A player should never contact a fan. Period.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I'll change my opinion about getting in the way of the play now. I won't change my opinion about the shove. A player should never contact a fan. Period.

I agree with both of those (barring some sort of incidental contact- like diving into the crowd, etc)

SI

[TroyF]

I'll just throw this out there: You don't want to be like David Stern and only penalize to the end result here. If the fan had went after Adams and started punching and going crazy, there is zero doubt Adams would be facing a LONG suspension for instigating the entire brawl.

Don't let the fact the fan chose to simply flip him the bird as some joke. The next time he (or any other player does it), it could end very badly for everyone. Don't risk it. Suspend Adams for five or ten and make it clear to everyone the next time a fan is contacted this year it will be worse. Nip this garbage in the bud right now.