NFL Week 2 Discussion Thread - Page 8

CU Tiger · 09-19-2010, 09:23 PM

Goodell will probably not smile on that show of stupidity....Brandon tht sound you hear is money being sucked from your checking account.

Abe Sargent · 09-19-2010, 09:29 PM

This game was over earlier, but now its super offical

Lathum · 09-19-2010, 09:46 PM

I have people over and am 3 sheets to the wind, can someone explain to me what the fuck happened to Jacobs helmet.

spleen1015 · 09-19-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have people over and am 3 sheets to the wind, can someone explain to me what the fuck happened to Jacobs helmet.

He got mad because he sucks. He meant to throw his helmet at the bench and instead threw it into the stands. The fan who caught it didn't want to give it up until the cops showed up to get it.

Lathum · 09-19-2010, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spleen1015

He got mad because he sucks. He meant to throw his helmet at the bench and instead threw it into the stands. The fan who caught it didn't want to give it up until the cops showed up to get it.

moron

RendeR · 09-19-2010, 10:03 PM

Yes he is. Frankly if he threw it into the stands he ought to have been ejected and the fan should be allowed to keep it.

And we all know you have no friends and yer just drunk as hell because its the only way to avoid the deep depression based on Eli's utter ineptitude tonight

Lathum · 09-19-2010, 10:19 PM

I DO HAVE FRIENDS!!!

Swaggs · 09-19-2010, 10:19 PM

who more accurate tonight?

eli with football or jacobs with helmet?

Swaggs · 09-19-2010, 10:23 PM

Kind of a broad question, but how close is Peyton to being the best NFL player ever?

I'm sure there are tons of lists, but I have always considered Montana the best ever, with Rice and Jim Brown

I still think Peyton is two Super Bowls away from joining that group and possibly topping it.

Who do you guys have at the top or in the top 3 or 4?

Greyroofoo · 09-19-2010, 10:24 PM

I think Moore just saw his last NFL carry...

Greyroofoo · 09-19-2010, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Who do you guys have at the top or in the top 3 or 4?

My vote is for Jim Brown for being in The Running Man

RedKingGold · 09-19-2010, 10:27 PM

Manning deserved to win tonight.

sabotai · 09-19-2010, 10:27 PM

Jacobs has always been hot headed. I'm always worried that he's going to do stupid shit like that. Yeah, he meant to throw it at the bench but he shouldn't be doing childish shit like that anyway.

Scoobz0202 · 09-19-2010, 10:34 PM

Lawrence Taylor has to be up there.

Greyroofoo · 09-19-2010, 10:41 PM

I just have to wonder if Peyton will win another MVP. He certainly has the passing stats so far.

RendeR · 09-19-2010, 11:29 PM

BEcause of the huge difference in what each position does and how each position impacts the game you really can't pick a single best "player" ever, you can list the best at each position, but how do you possibly relegate them one against the other?

For the best QB ever? its Peyton Manning, pretty much hands down. His ability to play the position combined with his savant-like ability to read a defense and call the right play to counter it is steps above anyone I've ever studied or watched first hand.

Lathum · 09-19-2010, 11:37 PM

IMO Brady has done a lot more with a lot less than Peyton. I love Peyton and he is a great field general, but Brady is better in my book.

Warhammer · 09-20-2010, 12:11 AM

I also think you need to judge each era based upon his peers. The only way to judge Manning is to compare him to Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc.

Lathum · 09-20-2010, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Let's see how they do when defenses are allowed to touch them and WRs aren't given carte blanche to run completely unencumbered everywhere on the field. They may be as good as some of the true greats, but guys like Unitas and even Montana had to play in a much tougher league to pass in where QBs were expected to run the whole show.

Very true

Vince, Pt. II · 09-20-2010, 12:24 AM

I think the only people really in the conversation for best player ever are Brown, Rice, Montana and Taylor. I also think that Taylor is probably the lowest of the four. If Jim Brown had stayed at it for a few more years, I think he's hands down your #1, but as is...I'd probably go Rice, Brown, Montana, Taylor if you held a gun to my head.

I think RendeR makes a good point though - it is really, really hard to compare players across positions...especially so since the game is so dependent upon the team around each player and the era they played in. While no one will argue that Montana and Rice were two of the best players of all time, they also had arguably the greatest supporting cast any two players ever had, and one of the best football minds ever behind them. That helped them TREMENDOUSLY.

Vince, Pt. II · 09-20-2010, 12:26 AM

Oh, and I'd like to see Manning finish his career before I start considering him. He's easily the best player of this generation, and I think probably already deserving of being mentioned in the conversation, but I think he needs more under his belt before being considered even for best QB, let alone best ever regardless of position.

Vince, Pt. II · 09-20-2010, 12:27 AM

And for the double dola...

Also, remember that I am a die hard Niner fan who grew up watching Montana and company. I am probably showing a little bit of my red-and-gold tinted glasses, though I think I do have a pretty legit case.

jbergey22 · 09-20-2010, 12:40 AM

Greatest of All Time
QB Joe Montana/Peyton Manning/Tom Brady
RB Walter Payton/Jim Brown/Barry Sanders
WR Jerry Rice
OL Anthony Munoz/Art Shell
DE Reggie White
LB Lawrence Taylor/Dick Butkus/Ray Lewis
DB Ronnie Lott

Its really hard to determine the best of All Time. Maybe Rice because is all time stats are so much better than any other WR.

Danny · 09-20-2010, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

IMO Brady has done a lot more with a lot less than Peyton. I love Peyton and he is a great field general, but Brady is better in my book.

I think the opposite is true. Barring the last couple years, Brady has always had a far superior defense. Offensively, overall they have probably had fairly equal talent though Moss is the best WR either of them have had. I also think Peyton makes the receivers around him look better than they are and they would not have the same success on other teams.

Chief Rum · 09-20-2010, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sabotai

Even if you hate how coaches do that, since Shanahan is the one who started it, you gotta like that.

Heh...I was wondering if anyone would remember that. I have many, many reasons to intensely dislike Shanahan, and that was just one more strong point of evidence when he started that 2-3 years ago (whenever it was).

While I absolutely hate that happening, it's lol funny it happening to that shitbag Shanahan. I feel sorry for Skins fans, though--should have happened while he was in Denver.

stevew · 09-20-2010, 07:32 AM

That game really had to be Lathum's worst nightmare. Eli looks like garbage, as does Brandon Jacob. Plus there's now a prototype how to beat the Giants. Then again, it's not like normal teams can generate that much pressure.

dubb93 · 09-20-2010, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

IMO Brady has done a lot more with a lot less than Peyton.

I would disagree. Without looking at the stats I would make an offhand comment that the worst Pats era Brady defense was on par with the best Manning era Colts defense.

And for all the Harrison/Wayne talk that Manning had, what about Moss/Welker? The best that can be said is that Manning had the better supporting cast on O most of the time(since Harrison retired/Moss arrived in NE I would say that it goes to Brady) and that the best supporting D nearly all of the time has to go to Brady.

If we need further proof we can look at how the Pats faired without Brady and how the Colts have done without Manning. The Pats were 11-5 in 2008 without Brady. If the Colts went 5-11 without Manning I would be absolutely floored.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 09-20-2010, 08:35 AM

Great win for the Jets, Pats have some work to do. Amazed at all the Chicken Little-ing going on here in town, but that's Boston for you.

Greyroofoo · 09-20-2010, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dubb93

If we need further proof we can look at how the Pats faired without Brady and how the Colts have done without Manning. The Pats were 11-5 in 2008 without Brady. If the Colts went 5-11 without Manning I would be absolutely floored.

I think this brings up another point in that Peyton has never missed a single start and has only missed part of a game due to injury just once (his replacement fumbled the hand-off to the RB costing the Colts the game IIRC).

His durability is just another feather in Peyton's cap.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 09-20-2010, 08:57 AM

Definitely a fair point - Brady should get dinged for the weakness of his ACL.

NorvTurnerOverdrive · 09-20-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Great win for the Jets, Pats have some work to do. Amazed at all the Chicken Little-ing going on here in town, but that's Boston for you.

really impressed with sanchez. dude took a lot of shit from a lot of people and went out and had a great game.

also, that moss td catch was redonkulous.

Lathum · 09-20-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

That game really had to be Lathum's worst nightmare. Eli looks like garbage, as does Brandon Jacob. Plus there's now a prototype how to beat the Giants. Then again, it's not like normal teams can generate that much pressure.

I expected it.

Eli didn't look great but the Colts knew he had to throw every play after getting down early. If the Giants could have scored to end the half and gotten the ball to start the second they would have been right back in the game, but Eli gets sacked and it's all over. Then on the fumble return for a TD I have no idea why coughlin didn't challenge there. The INT was an ill advised throw but took a freak bounce.

Overall I expected to lose and lose badly. Look at the betting thread, I bet on the Colts. I know I incite extra hatred for the Giants and people like to give me a hard time about it, which is fine, but there isn't a team in the NFL that wins that game last night.

Galaril · 09-20-2010, 09:29 AM

Geez, not to be tick-tacky but this was vicious from the Steelers- Titans game early on in the game. I have no idea how this wasn't a roughing the passer call unless pile driving someones neck into the turf is allowed?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/tennessee-...ack-11-yd-loss

Lathum · 09-20-2010, 09:30 AM

dola- Everyone saying Brady has Moss/ Welker, etc....he hasn't won a superbowl with them. When Brady was leading them to superbowl he had no other great skill players on offense with him. That IMO puts him ahead of Peyton.

JPhillips · 09-20-2010, 09:39 AM

Corey Dillon was a very good back. Not a HOFer, but I don't think the Pats win without him.

Ronnie Dobbs2 · 09-20-2010, 09:43 AM

That's 1 out of 3 SB. Don't think you can say the same for Antowain Smith.

bhlloy · 09-20-2010, 09:45 AM

There's ill advised throws and then there's heaves downfield to a triple covered receiver who is probably 5'10 in streetclothes. Eli's getting into Rex Grossman territory with that throw. Yeah, it was an unlucky bounce (thought Smith played that one as well as he possibly could if he was trying to catch it) but there's really only one thing that is going to happen when you make that throw.

Also trying to think what should have been challenged about the fumble, seemed pretty cut and dry to me but maybe I am misremembering?

Chubby · 09-20-2010, 09:48 AM

Eli for HOF!

Lathum · 09-20-2010, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

There's ill advised throws and then there's heaves downfield to a triple covered receiver who is probably 5'10 in streetclothes. Eli's getting into Rex Grossman territory with that throw. Yeah, it was an unlucky bounce (thought Smith played that one as well as he possibly could if he was trying to catch it) but there's really only one thing that is going to happen when you make that throw.

Also trying to think what should have been challenged about the fumble, seemed pretty cut and dry to me but maybe I am misremembering?

I'm probably misremembering TBH. It seemed to me his arm was close enough to coming forward to at least challenge.

Lathum · 09-20-2010, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

Eli for HOF!

Nothing more pathetic in sports than a fan who takes more joy in someone elses team losing than his own team winning...

Chubby · 09-20-2010, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Nothing more pathetic in sports than a fan who takes more joy in someone elses team losing than his own team winning...

Actually there is, a blind homer who extoles the virtues of his favorite player and makes excuses for him when things don't go right. Those darn bad bounces...

bhlloy · 09-20-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I'm probably misremembering TBH. It seemed to me his arm was close enough to coming forward to at least challenge.

Ah yeah, you are right for some reason I was thinking of Brady's fumble from earlier in the day. The announcers said that it was a definite fumble under the current rules but in real time I said to my wife that one should be coming back. When the game is that out of hand and you are trying to get anything going you might as well challenge it and hope the ref sees something. Big time white flag thrown up by Coughlin, but maybe he knows something about the rule I don't.

Galaril · 09-20-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiFiRevival

Any greatest QB discussion without Unitas and Graham isn't a discussion of the best of all time.

Agree.

bhlloy · 09-20-2010, 10:14 AM

We can argue about Brady vs Manning and who had the better supporting cast ad-infinitum. I think in general Manning has had a clear edge in skill players (Harrison, Wayne, Edge) but the Pats have an edge on defense and o-line. Either way, they are both ridiculous QB's and clearly the 2 best of their era.

For me, the one red flag for Brady is the success that Cassell had in the same system when Brady was out. For a guy who is clearly in the bottom 10% of NFL starters to come in and the offense not to miss much of a beat makes me think that just maybe Brady is a little more a product of the system than Peyton is. Not that he's not a great QB under any standard, but it does make you wonder.

Lathum · 09-20-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chubby

Actually there is, a blind homer who extoles the virtues of his favorite player and makes excuses for him when things don't go right. Those darn bad bounces...

At least I talk about MY team and make some form of argument that can be discussed by adults who have something to say other than well thought out intelligent statement like "he is crap"

stevew · 09-20-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

Geez, not to be tick-tacky but this was vicious from the Steelers- Titans game early on in the game. I have no idea how this wasn't a roughing the passer call unless pile driving someones neck into the turf is allowed?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/tennessee-...ack-11-yd-loss

I guess they were supposed to be like "excuse me sir, we're going to place you on the ground?" Yeah, that one looked ugly, I agree. Next time don't let 3 rabid animals meet up at the QB.

Chief Rum · 09-20-2010, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhlloy

We can argue about Brady vs Manning and who had the better supporting cast ad-infinitum. I think in general Manning has had a clear edge in skill players (Harrison, Wayne, Edge) but the Pats have an edge on defense and o-line. Either way, they are both ridiculous QB's and clearly the 2 best of their era.

For me, the one red flag for Brady is the success that Cassell had in the same system when Brady was out. For a guy who is clearly in the bottom 10% of NFL starters to come in and the offense not to miss much of a beat makes me think that just maybe Brady is a little more a product of the system than Peyton is. Not that he's not a great QB under any standard, but it does make you wonder.

09-19-2010, 09:29 PM	#352
Abe Sargent Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Catonsville, MD	This game was over earlier, but now its super offical __________________ Check out my two current weekly Magic columns! https://www.coolstuffinc.com/a/?action=search&page=1&author[]=Abe%20Sargent

09-19-2010, 10:03 PM	#356
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	Yes he is. Frankly if he threw it into the stands he ought to have been ejected and the fan should be allowed to keep it. And we all know you have no friends and yer just drunk as hell because its the only way to avoid the deep depression based on Eli's utter ineptitude tonight __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

09-19-2010, 10:19 PM	#358
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	who more accurate tonight? eli with football or jacobs with helmet? __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

09-19-2010, 10:23 PM	#359
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Kind of a broad question, but how close is Peyton to being the best NFL player ever? I'm sure there are tons of lists, but I have always considered Montana the best ever, with Rice and Jim Brown I still think Peyton is two Super Bowls away from joining that group and possibly topping it. Who do you guys have at the top or in the top 3 or 4? __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

09-19-2010, 11:29 PM	#367
RendeR Coordinator Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Buffalo, NY	BEcause of the huge difference in what each position does and how each position impacts the game you really can't pick a single best "player" ever, you can list the best at each position, but how do you possibly relegate them one against the other? For the best QB ever? its Peyton Manning, pretty much hands down. His ability to play the position combined with his savant-like ability to read a defense and call the right play to counter it is steps above anyone I've ever studied or watched first hand. __________________ http://wotlabs.net/s...8/signature.png http://wotlabs.net/sig_dark/na/banichi18/signature.png

09-19-2010, 09:23 PM	#351
CU Tiger Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Backwoods, SC	Goodell will probably not smile on that show of stupidity....Brandon tht sound you hear is money being sucked from your checking account.

09-19-2010, 09:46 PM	#353
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I have people over and am 3 sheets to the wind, can someone explain to me what the fuck happened to Jacobs helmet.

09-19-2010, 10:19 PM	#357
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I DO HAVE FRIENDS!!!

09-19-2010, 10:24 PM	#360
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I think Moore just saw his last NFL carry...

09-19-2010, 10:27 PM	#362
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Manning deserved to win tonight.

09-19-2010, 10:27 PM	#363
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Jacobs has always been hot headed. I'm always worried that he's going to do stupid shit like that. Yeah, he meant to throw it at the bench but he shouldn't be doing childish shit like that anyway.

09-19-2010, 10:34 PM	#365
Scoobz0202 Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Dayton, Ohio	Lawrence Taylor has to be up there.

09-19-2010, 10:41 PM	#366
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I just have to wonder if Peyton will win another MVP. He certainly has the passing stats so far.

09-19-2010, 11:37 PM	#368
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	IMO Brady has done a lot more with a lot less than Peyton. I love Peyton and he is a great field general, but Brady is better in my book.

09-20-2010, 12:11 AM	#370
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	I also think you need to judge each era based upon his peers. The only way to judge Manning is to compare him to Brady, Brees, Rivers, etc.

09-20-2010, 12:24 AM	#372
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	I think the only people really in the conversation for best player ever are Brown, Rice, Montana and Taylor. I also think that Taylor is probably the lowest of the four. If Jim Brown had stayed at it for a few more years, I think he's hands down your #1, but as is...I'd probably go Rice, Brown, Montana, Taylor if you held a gun to my head. I think RendeR makes a good point though - it is really, really hard to compare players across positions...especially so since the game is so dependent upon the team around each player and the era they played in. While no one will argue that Montana and Rice were two of the best players of all time, they also had arguably the greatest supporting cast any two players ever had, and one of the best football minds ever behind them. That helped them TREMENDOUSLY.

09-20-2010, 12:26 AM	#373
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	Oh, and I'd like to see Manning finish his career before I start considering him. He's easily the best player of this generation, and I think probably already deserving of being mentioned in the conversation, but I think he needs more under his belt before being considered even for best QB, let alone best ever regardless of position.

09-20-2010, 12:27 AM	#374
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	And for the double dola... Also, remember that I am a die hard Niner fan who grew up watching Montana and company. I am probably showing a little bit of my red-and-gold tinted glasses, though I think I do have a pretty legit case.

09-20-2010, 12:40 AM	#375
jbergey22 Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Minnesota	Greatest of All Time QB Joe Montana/Peyton Manning/Tom Brady RB Walter Payton/Jim Brown/Barry Sanders WR Jerry Rice OL Anthony Munoz/Art Shell DE Reggie White LB Lawrence Taylor/Dick Butkus/Ray Lewis DB Ronnie Lott Its really hard to determine the best of All Time. Maybe Rice because is all time stats are so much better than any other WR.

09-20-2010, 07:32 AM	#378
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	That game really had to be Lathum's worst nightmare. Eli looks like garbage, as does Brandon Jacob. Plus there's now a prototype how to beat the Giants. Then again, it's not like normal teams can generate that much pressure.

09-20-2010, 08:35 AM	#380
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Great win for the Jets, Pats have some work to do. Amazed at all the Chicken Little-ing going on here in town, but that's Boston for you. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

09-20-2010, 08:57 AM	#382
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	Definitely a fair point - Brady should get dinged for the weakness of his ACL. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think

09-20-2010, 09:29 AM	#385
Galaril Pro Starter Join Date: Jan 2004	Geez, not to be tick-tacky but this was vicious from the Steelers- Titans game early on in the game. I have no idea how this wasn't a roughing the passer call unless pile driving someones neck into the turf is allowed? http://www.nfl.com/videos/tennessee-...ack-11-yd-loss Last edited by Galaril : 09-20-2010 at 09:31 AM.

09-20-2010, 09:30 AM	#386
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	dola- Everyone saying Brady has Moss/ Welker, etc....he hasn't won a superbowl with them. When Brady was leading them to superbowl he had no other great skill players on offense with him. That IMO puts him ahead of Peyton.

09-20-2010, 09:39 AM	#387
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Corey Dillon was a very good back. Not a HOFer, but I don't think the Pats win without him. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

09-20-2010, 09:43 AM	#388
Ronnie Dobbs2 Pro Rookie Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Bahston Mass	That's 1 out of 3 SB. Don't think you can say the same for Antowain Smith. __________________ There's no I in Teamocil, at least not where you'd think Last edited by Ronnie Dobbs2 : 09-20-2010 at 09:44 AM.

09-20-2010, 09:45 AM	#389
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	There's ill advised throws and then there's heaves downfield to a triple covered receiver who is probably 5'10 in streetclothes. Eli's getting into Rex Grossman territory with that throw. Yeah, it was an unlucky bounce (thought Smith played that one as well as he possibly could if he was trying to catch it) but there's really only one thing that is going to happen when you make that throw. Also trying to think what should have been challenged about the fumble, seemed pretty cut and dry to me but maybe I am misremembering?

09-20-2010, 09:48 AM	#390
Chubby Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Syracuse, NY	Eli for HOF!

09-20-2010, 10:14 AM	#397
bhlloy Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003	We can argue about Brady vs Manning and who had the better supporting cast ad-infinitum. I think in general Manning has had a clear edge in skill players (Harrison, Wayne, Edge) but the Pats have an edge on defense and o-line. Either way, they are both ridiculous QB's and clearly the 2 best of their era. For me, the one red flag for Brady is the success that Cassell had in the same system when Brady was out. For a guy who is clearly in the bottom 10% of NFL starters to come in and the offense not to miss much of a beat makes me think that just maybe Brady is a little more a product of the system than Peyton is. Not that he's not a great QB under any standard, but it does make you wonder.

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