2012 MLB Thread (Cabrera Gets Triple Crown, first since Yaz 1967)

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

Basically, the best numbers I can see are that Trout saved about 13 runs in CF while Cabrera cost about 4 runs at 3B. I'm not sure that's enough to swing this debate.

Trout is also credited for creating 8.7 runs on the bases while Cabrera cost his team 5.5. That's a total of 31 runs difference between the two players between baserunning and defense. That's a massive difference.

Not to mention the 21 extra outs Cabrera created by grounding into double plays.

[spleen1015]

BUT TROUT ONLY HAD 60% OF THE ARE BEE EYES THAT CABRERA HAD!!!!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Atocep

Trout is also credited for creating 8.7 runs on the bases while Cabrera cost his team 5.5.

Out of curiosity, in which game did Trout score that 7/10ths of a run? I'd love to take a look at that boxscore.

[bhlloy]

So... Josh Hamilton, do you give him a mega contract? Personally I'd have to say no for the same reason I hope the Angels won't throw too much money at Greinke, but I understand people are going to go nuts over his talent.

Who are the frontrunners? Red Sox, trying to start over with a new star?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by oykib

The point is that if you look at the entire season's stats, you've already taken all that into account. Cabrera lead the league in RBIs, and Trout led the league in runs. There was a negligible difference in AVG, with Cabrera ahead. The same is true with OBP, with Trout ahead. The best any reasonable look can say is that it's a coin flip between these two at the plate.

Trout let by .03 in OBP, scored 20 more runs and had 45 more SB. Cabrera had 23 more hits, 41 fewer Ks, 36 points higher in SLG, 14 more HR and 56 more RBI. I'm not sure that SBs are enough to tip the scales. IMO, Cabrera had the better offensive season while Trout was the better defender. When you throw in how Cabrera hit in key plate appearances, that his team made the playoffs and that he won the triple crown - I think that's enough to earn him the MVP.

Your other problem with these moving endpoints arguments is double counting. You've already taken what Cabrera did in #3, in #2. Repeating it doesn't mean he did that in 300 PAs. Those are the same 200 PAs.

The other 500 or so PAs count as well.

The point was to show that when the situation increased in pressure to be within 1 run, Cabrera did even better while Trout's numbers decreased. Again, it's a close call but potential runs scored aren't as good as situations that actually impacted games won or lost in 2012. And, in those situations, Cabrera was better.

[EagleFan]

Give it to Trout!!!!

Though I may be a little biased as he is from my home town...

[JonInMiddleGA]

WSB-TV reporter ‏@ZachKleinWSB tweets

Photo: I'm standing at spot in outfield where "infield fly" rule was called

[oykib]

Originally Posted by Arles

Trout let by .03 in OBP, scored 20 more runs and had 45 more SB. Cabrera had 23 more hits, 41 fewer Ks, 36 points higher in SLG, 14 more HR and 56 more RBI. I'm not sure that SBs are enough to tip the scales. IMO, Cabrera had the better offensive season while Trout was the better defender. When you throw in how Cabrera hit in key plate appearances, that his team made the playoffs and that he won the triple crown - I think that's enough to earn him the MVP.

His team played in a shitty division and still only had the 7th-best record. Since Trout was called up, the Angels had the best record in the league. Trout's team was better, and it had to face much better competition.

Cabrera also eliminated (rally-killed) 21 extra baserunners with GDPs than Trout.

Originally Posted by Arles

The point was to show that when the situation increased in pressure to be within 1 run, Cabrera did even better while Trout's numbers decreased. Again, it's a close call but potential runs scored aren't as good as situations that actually impacted games won or lost in 2012. And, in those situations, Cabrera was better.

I'll give you that Cabrera was more productive at the plate in the late innings. But they don't start keeping score in the seventh inning. Trout was the more productive offensive player overall. Even if we concede that Cabrera was better at the plate and give him bonus points for hitting in the clutch, there's no way it makes up for the significant difference in defensive value.

[Vince, Pt. II]

Originally Posted by oykib

...there's no way it makes up for the significant difference in defensive value.

Or on the basepaths.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Ouch...

The 20 most depressing 2012 Pirates facts - Sports Fans, Teams, Stadiums, Page 2 - Fandom Blog - ESPN Playbook - ESPN

[Chubby]

And yet Miggy will still win the MVP in a landslide

[JediKooter]

Former major leaguer Champ Summers dies in Florida - Yahoo! Sports

Damn. I actually liked him even though he wasn't a star player. Maybe it's because he tried to take on the whole Atlanta Braves team one time.