2013 NFL Offseason/Coaches Fired/Draft discussions-

[Matthean]

So much for 'Bama vs. Oregon with Kelly involved. It's really the only match up I cared about.

[Suicane75]

At the very least it'll be exciting for a year or two.

[Lathum]

I think Kelly will fail big time in the NFL, that system wont work with the speed of the guys on defense and the impact of the hits. He also won't be able to cheat.

[HomerSimpson98]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think Kelly will fail big time in the NFL, that system wont work with the speed of the guys on defense and the impact of the hits. He also won't be able to cheat.

Plus one. I dont get the hire at all.

Oregon must have some sanctions about to be dropped on their ass because didnt Mr. Nike pony up more cash for Chip when he did this last week?

[Logan]

Long, but great, read from Chris Brown of Smart Football that was posted to Grantland when the original Kelly rumors had started.

The success of Chip Kelly's Oregon Ducks offense is more familiar than it seems - Grantland

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson98

Plus one. I dont get the hire at all.

Oregon must have some sanctions about to be dropped on their ass because didnt Mr. Nike pony up more cash for Chip when he did this last week?

Yeah, this. Either Kelly blinked or he found out that Oregon is about to get the hammer dropped on them

[Logan]

For the record, everyone thought Kelly took the Tampa job last year because of the "pending hammer", and then he went back. I think the better guess is that Philly originally wouldn't give him the control he wanted, and now, after they continued their search and came up empty with their top choices, they relented. Just IMO.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Logan

For the record, everyone thought Kelly took the Tampa job last year because of the "pending hammer", and then he went back. I think the better guess is that Philly originally wouldn't give him the control he wanted, and now, after they continued their search and came up empty with their top choices, they relented. Just IMO.

That is most likely the case.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

None of them were anything special at all in their careers, with or without the Eagles. Being average is not "developing a QB".

The point isn't how good these guys were overall, but how they did in PHI, relative to their career norms.

We're talking about these guys being pushed to perform in Reid's system and they did. Then they left and played much worse. Stands to reason Reid and/or his system had a good deal to do with how well they performed in Philly.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The point isn't how good these guys were overall, but how they did in PHI, relative to their career norms.

We're talking about these guys being pushed to perform in Reid's system and they did. Then they left and played much worse. Stands to reason Reid and/or his system had a good deal to do with how well they performed in Philly.

One of the things I love about having Bill Belichick as the coach of my favorite team is his willingness to adapt his "system" (such as there is of it) to whatever talent he has / current NFL ruleset / current NFL officiating guidelines. All he really wants are team players that work hard and are versatile, beyond that he'll change things up to meet their strengths and how the game is currently being played. How many coaches have gone from an aggressive defense style to a passing-based offense over a decade or so? And that offense has been through several incarnations.

I think too many coaches go "he's a good QB!" and then cram him into their system without figuring out what he does well and does poorly and adjust their offense to it. Carolina had a successful offense last year when they had no camp time so were forced to run Cam Newton's Auburn offense, then when they had time they tried to change it up and did poorly for the start of this year.

We see this time and time again in the NFL, but "adaptability" isn't what seems to get your hired, and has killed more teams.

I do think the San Fran Harbaugh seems to be doing this, but not many others.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

At the very least it'll be exciting for a year or two.

QFT... with McCoy, Bryce Brown, DeSean Jackson, and especially if Vick comes back he at least has the personnel to give it a real shot... not like if he went to Cleveland and had only 1 good offensive player.

[stevew]

I pretty much decided that disliking the Eagles is a strong enough reason to avoid Silver Linings Playbook.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Well I think my beloved Cards may have dodged a bullet on this one, but organization looking pretty bad with Reid not even going for an interview and McCoy not going for a second after all. Can't blame McCoy though-Phillip Rivers vs Kevin Kolb isn't much of a contest. I would look for the Cards now to go to their backup plan Ray Horton and possibly bringing back ex-Cards Offensive Coordinator Todd Haley to give the defense-trained Horton some experienced offensive coaching.

Looks like I'm not a very good predictor. The Cards interviewed current Seahawk OC Darrell Bevell today, and have reportedly asked permission to interview Colts OC Bruce Arians. A potential hangup with Arians is that he wants to bring on Todd Bowles as his DC. The Cards of course have Horton, and want to keep him as DC from what I am now reading. Since the Cards defense was about the only good thing last season or two, I can understand why they want to keep Horton.

It's a tough situation for my beloved Cards-no decent QB (jury's still out on Kolb), no o-line, cap situation not great and you have to play SF and Sea twice a year (and the Rams are improving too).

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

One of the things I love about having Bill Belichick as the coach of my favorite team is his willingness to adapt his "system" (such as there is of it) to whatever talent he has / current NFL ruleset / current NFL officiating guidelines. All he really wants are team players that work hard and are versatile, beyond that he'll change things up to meet their strengths and how the game is currently being played. How many coaches have gone from an aggressive defense style to a passing-based offense over a decade or so? And that offense has been through several incarnations.

I think too many coaches go "he's a good QB!" and then cram him into their system without figuring out what he does well and does poorly and adjust their offense to it. Carolina had a successful offense last year when they had no camp time so were forced to run Cam Newton's Auburn offense, then when they had time they tried to change it up and did poorly for the start of this year.

We see this time and time again in the NFL, but "adaptability" isn't what seems to get your hired, and has killed more teams.

I do think the San Fran Harbaugh seems to be doing this, but not many others.

I think it will be interesting to see how SF manages reloading when people like kapernick and others need to get paid. There's probably only 5-6 teams that seem to handle that process without too much of a performance dip.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Looks like I'm not a very good predictor. The Cards interviewed current Seahawk OC Darrell Bevell today, and have reportedly asked permission to interview Colts OC Bruce Arians. A potential hangup with Arians is that he wants to bring on Todd Bowles as his DC. The Cards of course have Horton, and want to keep him as DC from what I am now reading. Since the Cards defense was about the only good thing last season or two, I can understand why they want to keep Horton.

It's a tough situation for my beloved Cards-no decent QB (jury's still out on Kolb), no o-line, cap situation not great and you have to play SF and Sea twice a year (and the Rams are improving too).

I think you have to let a new HC hire his own guys and win or lose with them.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

The point isn't how good these guys were overall, but how they did in PHI, relative to their career norms.

We're talking about these guys being pushed to perform in Reid's system and they did. Then they left and played much worse. Stands to reason Reid and/or his system had a good deal to do with how well they performed in Philly.

Look at the numbers, to say they even played well would be a stretch.

AJ Feeley started all of 2 games for the Eagles and played in only 5, he had 8 TD's and 8 picks. The idea that AJ Feeley was a good QB was only ever a thought.

Ty Detmer was here for 2 years. He threw 21 TD's and 19 picks and had a QB rating of about 75. This was after 4 seasons of development in GB.

Koy Detmer started 8 games in 8 seasons and was never any good. In 1998 he started 5 games and had a QB rating of 67.

Kevin Kolb started 8 games in Philly and had 11 TD's and 10 Picks with a QB rating of around 80, easily the best of the bunch. And his numbers have been just as good in Arizona as they were in Philly. He's probably an average QB.

I'll say it again, maybe McNabb was just a damn good QB.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Look at the numbers, to say they even played well would be a stretch.

AJ Feeley started all of 2 games for the Eagles and played in only 5, he had 8 TD's and 8 picks. The idea that AJ Feeley was a good QB was only ever a thought.

Ty Detmer was here for 2 years. He threw 21 TD's and 19 picks and had a QB rating of about 75. This was after 4 seasons of development in GB.

Koy Detmer started 8 games in 8 seasons and was never any good. In 1998 he started 5 games and had a QB rating of 67.

Kevin Kolb started 8 games in Philly and had 11 TD's and 10 Picks with a QB rating of around 80, easily the best of the bunch. And his numbers have been just as good in Arizona as they were in Philly. He's probably an average QB.

I'll say it again, maybe McNabb was just a damn good QB.

You know Feeley played with the Eagles before he played with MIA, right? You might find cherrypicking the years you want to use isn't the best method to use to prove your point.

I'll give, though, that it's a mixed bag and ignore that McNabb himself would be a poor example for your argument, since he was pretty terrible without Reid himself.

For whatever reason, warranted or not, Reid is considered a guy who can coach up a QB. And there is evidence that says that might be true. Like I said, mixed bag. You're welcome to your opinion.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

You know Feeley played with the Eagles before he played with MIA, right? You might find cherrypicking the years you want to use isn't the best method to use to prove your point.

I'll give, though, that it's a mixed bag and ignore that McNabb himself would be a poor example for your argument, since he was pretty terrible without Reid himself.

For whatever reason, warranted or not, Reid is considered a guy who can coach up a QB. And there is evidence that says that might be true. Like I said, mixed bag. You're welcome to your opinion.

Lol, dude, I didn't cherry pick the years, I pointed out what they did as Eagles. They were average at best as Eagles and they were average at best the rest of their careers. The idea that Feeley and the Detmers were studs here and sucked elsewhere is just wrong, and the numbers point that out. And I think it's pretty clear McNabb was done when he left. How you can call that a mixed bag is beyond me. It's a bag of poop.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Lol, dude, I didn't cherry pick the years, I pointed out what they did as Eagles. They were average at best as Eagles and they were average at best the rest of their careers. The idea that Feeley and the Detmers were studs here and sucked elsewhere is just wrong, and the numbers point that out. And I think it's pretty clear McNabb was done when he left. How you can call that a mixed bag is beyond me. It's a bag of poop.

Actually Ty Detmer's best years were with Philly. Koy never played with anyone else. And I already pointed out where you erred with Feeley, who had two different stints with the Eagles (you conveniently ignored the stretch that didn't match your argument).

Kolb is a wash, and as you say, McNabb was probably about done when he left PHI.

My point was to note they did better in PHI than they did elsewhere. That was true in some cases (Feeley, Detmer, McNabb), the player was the same in one case (Kolb), and we can't tell with Koy Detmer, because he didn't play elsewhere.

And I am not arguing they weren't average. You should get off that point. It's one you're trying to trhow up there and knock down easy to make your argument, but I never argued these guys were great in PHI or even good. Just better than when they played other places.

[cuervo72]

And you apparently missed the years before he was with MIA for Feeley. Notably 2002, where he started 5 games and went 4-1 (though stats still say he wasn't all that great).

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Actually Ty Detmer's best years were with Philly. Koy never played with anyone else. And I already pointed out where you erred with Feeley, who had two different stints with the Eagles (you conveniently ignored the stretch that didn't match your argument).

Again, Ty started 18 games here and had a QB rating of 75. Your suggestion that those were his best years are right, but it's only because those are the only 2 seasons he started. And that's probably because it was clear he wasn't a very good QB. Koy started 8 games in 8 seasons. If you're just going by who they had their best seasons for, then yes, Koys 8 starts in 8 seasons for the Eagles were the best of his career. I don't see how the thing you take away from this is that they played better for the Eagles than anyone else and not that they just weren't very good QB's.

I didn't errr with Feeley. Before he was traded, in 2002 he started 6 games, he threw 6 TD's, 5 picks and had a 75 QBR.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And I am not arguing they weren't average. You should get off that point. It's one you're trying to trhow up there and knock down easy to make your argument, but I never argued these guys were great in PHI or even good. Just better than when they played other places.

I thought your point was that Andy is a known QB maker, which I'm trying to point out that the numbers simply don't back up.

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think Kelly will fail big time in the NFL, that system wont work with the speed of the guys on defense and the impact of the hits. He also won't be able to cheat.

belichek? he got caught...

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Hehe... Monte Kiffin now has to face Chip Kelly TWICE a season.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Rumor hits the Atlanta paper tonight that UGA DC Todd Grantham is a leading candidate to join Kelly in Philly.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

Again, Ty started 18 games here and had a QB rating of 75. Your suggestion that those were his best years are right, but it's only because those are the only 2 seasons he started. And that's probably because it was clear he wasn't a very good QB. Koy started 8 games in 8 seasons. If you're just going by who they had their best seasons for, then yes, Koys 8 starts in 8 seasons for the Eagles were the best of his career. I don't see how the thing you take away from this is that they played better for the Eagles than anyone else and not that they just weren't very good QB's.

I didn't errr with Feeley. Before he was traded, in 2002 he started 6 games, he threw 6 TD's, 5 picks and had a 75 QBR.



I thought your point was that Andy is a known QB maker, which I'm trying to point out that the numbers simply don't back up.

How about Jeff Garcia? He was deader than a doornail when San Francisco released him and Detroit started him. He goes to Philadelphia as a backup and looks excellent after McNabb went down with a torn ACL, taking the Eqgles to the playoffs in 2006 before losing to the Saints at home in the divisional round.

[Thomkal]

ESPN is now reporting that the Jaguars have picked Gus Bradley from Seattle to be their head coach. Leaving my beloved Cards as the only team without a head coach. :::sigh:::

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

ESPN is now reporting that the Jaguars have picked Gus Bradley from Seattle to be their head coach. Leaving my beloved Cards as the only team without a head coach. :::sigh:::

Tough finding someone who'll work for minimum wage.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Tough finding someone who'll work for minimum wage.

heh and no doubt under the limit for whatever hours/week you need to get health care from your employer now

[spleen1015]

Who did Cleveland hire?

[Kodos]

Wayne Fontes.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

How about Jeff Garcia? He was deader than a doornail when San Francisco released him and Detroit started him. He goes to Philadelphia as a backup and looks excellent after McNabb went down with a torn ACL, taking the Eqgles to the playoffs in 2006 before losing to the Saints at home in the divisional round.

Except he wasn't "deader than a doornail". He was a good starter at SF, but Dennis Erickson couldn't coach and Garcia didn't fit Erickson's scheme. Terrell Owens was released too and obviously he wasn't done. So then Garcia goes to an awful Cleveland team and was hurt a bunch. Then he goes to Detroit and also gets hurt.

Finally he ends up in Philly. He played well at Philly - but the Eagles chose not to re-sign him - and then had two more very good years in Tampa. That he had success before he got to the Eagles and then after he left doesn't help prove that there is any "Andy Reid effect".

Suicane is right. None of the mediocre backups in Philly played all that well while playing for the Eagles. The team won despite these QBs, not because of them. But because the team won, other teams who were desperate for QBs traded for these guys. Once they went to a team with less talent, they were quickly exposed for what they were - bad QBs. Reid can't be praised as a QB guru...what can be praised is the ability of the Eagles to get trade value out of these lousy QBs.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Who did Cleveland hire?

Rob Chudzinski

Originally Posted by Kodos

Wayne Fontes.

Sadly he's still one of their best coaches.

[Suicane75]

Listen, I'm not in kill Andy Reid mode. As I've said before, I love what he did for this organization. He built a perennial contender from the ground up, but a lot of that groundwork was layed 10-15 years ago and has slowly eroded over time. He drafted the right QB, he couldn't get a good WR to save his life which shows just how great McNabb was. I mean yeah, we got Owens for the Super Bowl run but people seem to forget the years we were good with a bunch of 2nd tier receivers. The elephant in the room is Jim Johnson. Since his death it seems the whole structure of the team has deteriorated.

I'm not saying whether he will or wont do a good job in Kansas City, because I don't know. I'm just saying that without McNabb or Johnson, a lot of the mystique has been washed away for me.

[Suicane75]

And Chief, please don't take any of this personally, I'm just trying to make a point, not attacking you or anything.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

And Chief, please don't take any of this personally, I'm just trying to make a point, not attacking you or anything.

No worries, bro. Nothing personal here. I really think our disagreement is really not all that much, but we're defining our terms differently.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ryan Leaf booted from treatment center to prison - ESPN

[Matthean]

Norv to the Browns.

Norv Turner joins Cleveland Browns as offensive coordinator - ESPN

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ryan Leaf booted from treatment center to prison - ESPN

I have to admire Leaf's complete dedication to being the absolute worst at whatever he attempts to do.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Ryan Leaf booted from treatment center to prison - ESPN

Longest Yard 2?

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by Matthean

Norv to the Browns.

Norv Turner joins Cleveland Browns as offensive coordinator - ESPN

As unimpressive as Rivers has been the last two years, I'm not sure if this is a good move or a bad one.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

As unimpressive as Rivers has been the last two years, I'm not sure if this is a good move or a bad one.

Take in to consideration at how bad the Chargers' o-line was in 2012 and they had a lot of injuries in 2011. That doesn't excuse all of Rivers' play, but, it explains a lot.

However, if Browns fans thought it couldn't get any worse and now The Norv is there...hey, be happy he's not the head coach.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

Of the three finalists for the Bears, give me Trestman.

Arians, while certainly qualified, I fear for his health. I'd just have this sneaking suspicion we'd be back to looking for a new head coach in a couple seasons with him.

Darrell Bevell screams flash in the pan hot coordinator to me, who will bomb as a head coach. He's never been a head coach at any level, and I don't think he'll fit well with a veteran-laden team.

I like the Trestman hire, given the other options.

The local guys have John Clayton on the radio here nearly every day and they were discussing Bevell's quick rise as a head coach candidate. None of the 3, including Clayton, see him as a potential head coach. They see Gus Bradley and Tom Cable the two head coaches on the Seattle coaching staff.

Arians is a 60 year old that's possibly in poor health and hasn't had a head coaching job in more than 15 years. No thanks.

Mike McCoy was a name early in the process and when one of the best things on your resume is "was able to get out of Peyton's way"; I'm not sold.

[spleen1015]

Glazer is tweeting that Arians is likely going to take the Cardinals job. Guh.

At least go some where you have a chance to win, dude.

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Glazer is tweeting that Arians is likely going to take the Cardinals job. Guh.

At least go some where you have a chance to win, dude.

Probably his last chance at getting a head coach job. Interesting to see if he can fix Kolb.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

Glazer is tweeting that Arians is likely going to take the Cardinals job. Guh.

At least go some where you have a chance to win, dude.

Yep looks like its finally over and the Cards have their man-remains to be seem if Horton will stay as DC now. I think the Cards could have done worse than Arians, maybe much worse. What he did in Indy this past season gives me hope, but time will tell.

Bruce Arians post-interview press conference stream and open thread with Arizona Cardinals - Revenge of the Birds

press conference with him after the interview and before he was offered the job.

[Thomkal]

Horton is out as DC-part of me understands why-its a business, the new coach needs to bring the coaches in he trusts and likes, etc. But the Cards interviewed him twice for the head coaching job and from reports wanted to keep him as DC no matter who got hired to be head coach, then it sounds like Horton got pretty screwed here.

[Buccaneer]

You used the word "Cards" three times in the previous two posts without the word 'beloved'.

[Thomkal]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

You used the word "Cards" three times in the previous two posts without the word 'beloved'.

yeah I'm trying to cut back.

[Matthean]

In other news, the Lions fired nobody.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Horton is out as DC-part of me understands why-its a business, the new coach needs to bring the coaches in he trusts and likes, etc. But the Cards interviewed him twice for the head coaching job and from reports wanted to keep him as DC no matter who got hired to be head coach, then it sounds like Horton got pretty screwed here.

The problem with this that the Cards defense has been pretty decent under Horton.

Now, guess who they've brought in. Todd Bowles.

Arians should have stayed in Indy and kept coaching a winner.