Blood Bowl 2

[Groundhog]

So.... despite promising I wouldn't get this until I saw some reviews, I went ahead and pre-ordered via Steam, which actually lets you play some demo matches against the AI or other players.

There's a limited selection of teams pre-release - Humans, Skaven, Dwarves, and Orcs IIRC - and no carry-over of SPPs. I played an Orcs (me) vs Dwarves (AI) game last night. Graphics are really good, a big improvement from last version. It was hard to judge the AI though as I beat the hell out of them from turn 1, and they were never really in a position to show me much in the way of strategy, outside of forming a depleted cage that I easily broke through.

Seems promising, but I'm really hoping the single player experience is improved from last version. It does look like a solid multiplayer experience though, and has match replays available too for league games, which is a nice feature.

[Abe Sargent]

I already pre-ordered it!

[Groundhog]

Had back to back forfeits mid-game against me, and with the 4 MVPs as a result, I got a block/guard Ogre for my humies! Woo hoo!

Post-release if there's enough interest for an FOFC league, I'm totally down.

[Umbrella]

I love me some blood bowl. I had the Chaos edition, which was pretty well done, although the AI was pretty poor. What are the new features Blood Bowl 2 are supposed to be bringing to the table?

[Honolulu_Blue]

I fired up the Beta over the weekend. The graphics are better, some of the interface is better, but... after that, it's hard to see where the difference is at the moment.

There are fewer teams. The AI still seemed pretty poor. It wasn't bad like it was in the first game, it was just bad in a different way. I played one game Orcs vs. Humans, and the AI never got the ball across midfield. I ended up winning 2-0, but mainly because I spent the 2nd half with the ball near their goal line as I pummeled them.

Hopefully, when the game is fully released tomorrow, we'll get a better sense of other improvements in other areas of the game.

[SirFozzie]

My quick review:

If you've played the Blood Bowl series, it's got a massive graphical upgrade. Still some AI issues, but that's to be expected. Disappointing to only have 8 races at launch (two, Wood Elves and Lizardmen will be DLC shortly after release, and you get one free if you preordered), compared to the 20+ of Blood Bowl Chaos Edition, but I can understand that not every coach will want every team. As long as you can play AGAINST those teams without having to buy, I'm fine with it.

Other notes.

The Campaign is mostly aimed at new players, as the first four matches introduce various things to the new coach (the stats, making blocks, etcetera).

I do like the fact that scripted events happen in the campaign (for example, in one of the early games:

Spoiler

Ogre Mobsters unhappy with one of your team's star players incite the crowd to invade the pitch repeatedly

I also set up a competition which can be done in single player or multiplayer mode. Maybe we'll set up a small FOFC competition.

[Groundhog]

Agree that it's disappointing to only have the 8 initial races. I've used Chaos Dwarves ever since I first played the tabletop version, so I'm hoping they get included at DLC sooner rather than later. Would like to see Goblins included too, as they are a lot of fun to play with... I think largely because you never actually expect to win.

It shows how long it's been that I've played Blood Bowl with how unrecognizable some of the rosters were to me. The Dark Elves and High Elves in particular are very different from how I remember them. I find the High Elves a pretty interesting choice now with their str 3 catchers and safe throw throwers, where as 'back in my day' they were a super boring team to use.

I opted for Lizards with my DLC pre-order bonus, but I think they're still a week away.

I played a solo league with High Elves last night and won 4 games, scoring 5 TDs in 2 of those, and giving up 0 TDs. AI plays smarter than the last version, but does some strange things - leaving guys on the sideline, and holding the ball back in their own backfield to be sacked with quick teams like Skaven when there's a clear opportunity to pass to gutter runners downfield, etc. To be honest though, it's harder to program AI for Blood Bowl than it is for chess given all the combinations of attributes and skills, so I'm not surprised. It's a good place for new players to learn the game, but veteran Blood Bowl coaches shouldn't have a lot of trouble.

I played my first game online with the full release last night, my Orcs vs a Chaos team. Made a stupid mistake in turn 1 that cost me, mistaking my opponent's Grashnak Blackhoof star player for his Centaur, and leaving my ballhandler in his blitz range... I had a chance to draw on turn 16 by blitzing his ballhandler near my endzone and naturally rolled push/push, reroll, push/push.

I never played BB1 online but played FUMBBL for years, and it took me a few games to pick up where I left off, and I still make the odd bonehead move, but I think I'm about 8-2 the last 10 games.

[Abe Sargent]

Im about 5 or 6 games into teh campaign. I hate playing as humans, so I hope to just finish this and get through it

[Groundhog]

I got bored with the campaign after the first match, where there was no block dice, just instant pows.

I do have a soft spot for humans though... I play them as a running team, with dump-off/nerves of steel throwers, 4 blitzers, and 2 defensive catchers (combinations of block/shadow/tackle/dauntless).

[Abe Sargent]

Thats because they ease you into it

[SirFozzie]

Some good news for BB fans:

Steam Community :: Group Announcements :: Blood Bowl 2

Hey Coaches,

You may have seen Lizardmen and Wood Elves invading the pitches lately... and there's a very good reason for that!

Blood Bowl 2 has released on Tuesday, and a lot of players are already playing the game!
We're excited to see this commitment, and wish to reward you as you supported us on Steam from the very beginning.

For players who pre-ordered Blood Bowl 2 on Steam
You had the choice of either the Lizardmen or the Wood Elves as a pre-order bonus. You've been there even before the release of the game. So, we decided to offer you BOTH races instead of just one!

For "Day1-players" who purchased Blood Bowl 2 on Steam
(From when the game was officially available on Steam)
You will receive the Lizardmen for free! This is our gift as thanks for supporting us from the very release of the game. We're happy to offer this race to all "Day1-players" who purchased the game from release date until today. We will count players until 4-5h from time of posting this message.

For PC players who have not purchased their game on Steam
We don’t forget you, but it’s more complicated to deliver an extra race if you have not purchased Blood Bowl 2 on Steam. Still, we’re currently working on a solution to deliver an extra race to you anyway! So if you have not purchased your game on Steam, please come back to this thread tomorrow End of Business Day, we hope to have some good updates for you.

While developing a new race for Blood Bowl is very demanding in terms of time and resources, we're happy that the warm welcome of the game's launch allows us to make this unplanned offer. This is the reason why the new races are already available in your game. We hope you will enjoy playing them!

Also, we would like to say again that we're reading your feedback on a regular basis. We will come back to you guys very soon (hopefully today) to answer some of the questions you raised about game improvements and content.

Have fun!
Cyanide Studio & Focus Home Interactive

[Groundhog]

I had a few 'interesting' quirks last night. Blocking with my LOS players in the first turn of both halves used my blitz action, and I had a Black Orc die on a failed GFI, and for some reason my apothecary was not available to use.

[Abe Sargent]

Unfortunately my favorite teams aren't available:

Necromantic
Nurgle
Chaos Dwarves


Werewolves are my favorite unit in the game. Go Necro!


But they aren;t here. So sad.

[Groundhog]

It's a bit disappointing that mutations aren't graphically included in the game (from what I've seen on the forums, at least).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by Abe Sargent

Unfortunately my favorite teams aren't available:

Necromantic
Nurgle
Chaos Dwarves


Werewolves are my favorite unit in the game. Go Necro!


But they aren;t here. So sad.

They have to have something to sell for DLC!

[Abe Sargent]

Just finished the campaign. Am I right that there aren't any AI only games outside of the campaign? Let me try it out just to see, but it doesn't look like it.


EDIT- Figured it out. You can create a solo league if you want.

[Abe Sargent]

Anyways, I'm just a bit surprised at one of the opening team selections. Why have all three core Elf teams and none of the Undead teams? You could replace Wood or High Elves with Undead or Necro very easily. I get why Chaos Dwarves aren;t here, you have to have Dwarves, and they are a bit duplicative. OI get why the unusual Halfling and Khemri teams aren;t here either. Nurgle is a very unique Chaos, but some of the units appear similar (they don't play that way, but I get it too).

I also would have run either Amazon or Norse, but the new Bretonian team, is the 2nd human, so I get why they are benched. And I get why you don't have Elf, Chaos Pact or Underworld, the three teams that combine their areas. Orges and Goblins are a bit odd too. I get that most choices are fine, but I still want either Undead/Necro on that roster, they seem a bit surprised.

Of the starting teams, the only two I would consider much are Lizardmen or Chaos. Chaos is like a bad Nurgle to me, since they are a bit more smashing, but Nurgle is so good vs the pass, unlike most smashing teams, and they have my favorite big guy with the Beast of Nurgle. So good!

Feh. Orcs are okay, I've runt hem before, but not super Abe-sih. I've run High and Dark elves, and I just don;t like them. Skaven are too one-note for ,y tastes, as are Dwarves without the chaos options of Hobgoblins and Bull Centaurs and the Minotaur. I just ran Humans in the campaign, and I've never liked them - too bland.

I guess I could try out Bretonians?

Starting 10 teams:

3 elves - pass heavy; 1 Skaven, super fast scoring

2 Chaos/Dwarf - Pure bash

4 Orc/Human/Bretonian/Lizards - Can play a variety of roles although Orcs tend to be a bit on a bash side of life in play. Lizards have very bash heavy units and very un-bash units too, but like Orcs, can be a bit bash-ish

[Abe Sargent]

I just tried, and failed, to get a Lizardman team going. Check out my results in the Dynasty thread. I can't argue that it's too easy, that's for sure!

[Groundhog]

I ran an all-skink team last night, against a rookie standard Lizardmen team. I managed 2 TDs in the first half, but had 4 players left on the field by turn 16, lost 3-2....

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

It's a bit disappointing that mutations aren't graphically included in the game (from what I've seen on the forums, at least).

They were in the campaign. You face a Skink team late, and they have some tentacles on a player or two if I recall.

[Abe Sargent]

Hmmm.....

I'm going to wait for dlc for BBII. I want enough teams to make playing teh game non-redundant. I already played a bunch of teams twice each in the campaign, and now I have to play them again and again. It's already getting old.

[Abe Sargent]

Steam Community :: euplatious :: Review for Blood Bowl 2

[Groundhog]

Started a game last night with my rookie Wood Elves and was matched up against a Chaos team that gave me 600k in inducements...... never seen so many claws..... My first time conceding, before his first turn.

[Abe Sargent]

Are claws that effective vs Woodies? Don;t you have a lot of 7 AV anyway? The Claw is useless against you, right?


EDIT: From the most recent rules


Claw / Claws
(Mutation)
A
player with this skill is blessed with a huge crab
-
like claw or razor
sharp talons that make armour useless. When an opponent is Knocked
Down by this player during a block, any Armour roll of 8 or more after
modifications automatically breaks armour



http://www.thenaf.net/wp-content/upl...13/06/CRP1.pdf


AC7 already does that (injury on 8 on armor check) so it doesn;t nothing against you.

[Groundhog]

Yeah, that part made no difference. Every player was moulded to create as much casualities as possible - mighty blow as first skill for the Chaos Warriors....

[Groundhog]

Also saw an Orc team yesterday while browsing the league I'm in that had played over 60 games already, had a strength 5 thrower, two strength 6 BOBs, and a strength 5/agility 4 blitzer..... possible of course, but seems a little sketchy all the same...

[SirFozzie]

Feel kinda bad.. was playing main league against a guy who was pretty new with Blood Bowl (he had read the rules, but some of the stuff was still learning for him).. plus.. well, I was Dwarves (insert Funhater comment here) and he was Dark Elves (both completely new teams).. and the dice were hot. He finished one drive with 3 players on the field (could've been a smashdown touchdown, but the last four or so turns I stopped hitting unless he was stopping me from scoring).. ended up like 4 CAS, and 9 KO's over the space of 16 turns. Considering it was a guy playing one of his first blood bowl games online, and I've played Online Blood Bowl for.. I want to say a decade plus at this point (from the old OLBBL client, to FUMBBL now to Cyanide BB).. it was a mismatch in every sense of the word.

I love playing smashy grindy teams.. that can be problematic as my preferred method is methodical 2-1 games with teams that will beat you up if you screw up.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Feel kinda bad.. was playing main league against a guy who was pretty new with Blood Bowl (he had read the rules, but some of the stuff was still learning for him).. plus.. well, I was Dwarves (insert Funhater comment here) and he was Dark Elves (both completely new teams).. and the dice were hot. He finished one drive with 3 players on the field (could've been a smashdown touchdown, but the last four or so turns I stopped hitting unless he was stopping me from scoring).. ended up like 4 CAS, and 9 KO's over the space of 16 turns. Considering it was a guy playing one of his first blood bowl games online, and I've played Online Blood Bowl for.. I want to say a decade plus at this point (from the old OLBBL client, to FUMBBL now to Cyanide BB).. it was a mismatch in every sense of the word.

I love playing smashy grindy teams.. that can be problematic as my preferred method is methodical 2-1 games with teams that will beat you up if you screw up.

Plus dwarves against elves is just rough. All that tackle on the dwarf team gives me fits.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Plus dwarves against elves is just rough. All that tackle on the dwarf team gives me fits.

Well, Dark Elves don't start with a ton of dodge, they rely more on the 2+ to do it for them

[BYU 14]

Just finished my first online league game beat an Orc team with my Bretonians 2-0, hade one lineman killed and lost another to broken jaw my next game, but laid some hurt on them too. Fun game.

[Abe Sargent]

Awesome!!!

I'm still feeling like Blood Bowl after HOMMVII felt unfinished, and needs some time. So I made a Bretonnan team and we'll try it out.

[Groundhog]

I hadn't played in about a week (Mordenheim had taken up most my gaming time) but started a game last night with my Wood Elves. We were TR 880 with 3 lineelves out, and naturally got matched up with a TR 1950 Orc team... Using the inducements I grabbed Morg and a rookie Treeman, and 3 wandering apoths and decided I would just forfeit if the going got tough... well, I actually won 3-2, and my opponent didn't roll a single injury against me. He wasn't a terrible coach, but did tend to sometimes do risky rolls earlier in his turns than most probably would.

Glad I actually stuck it out and played rather than forfeit.

[Abe Sargent]

With the two new teams released today, I feel we are at enough of a density now to build back my BB2 game playing. Also announced is the upcoming Legendary Edition that will finish off all of teh teams and add some new features later this year in 2017.

But as of today we added Chaos Dwarves and, oddly....Khemri to the cast. That's in addition to:

Wood Elves
Norse
Lizardman
Dark Elves
High Elves
Dwarves
Undead
Orcs
Human
Necromantic
Bretonnian
Nurgle
Chaos
Skaven


That's pretty much all of the major teams. Not in are the odd and bizarre playing Goblins, Vampires, the oddly missing Halflings, who I would have put in before the Khemri certainly, Amazons, Pro Elves, Underworld, Ogres and the new race of the Circus of Kislev, with rules based on the Slann.

We have 16 now, and that's a lot. Feels like it may be a mass density fo awesome.




Blood Bowl 2 Legendary Edition | Rock, Paper, Shotgun

[Groundhog]

Really excited about legendary edition. I also got back into the boardgame version with the re-release October last year... Felt great to roll some actual block dice!

[Abe Sargent]

I'm trying to figure out what to play. I've always loved Necro, Chaos or Nurgle, Chaos Dwarves bunchs and um...Necro. Lots of Necro.


I was thinking about trying something nobody likes - Khemri, to see if I could make them work. I've played Dark Elves, Humans, Lizards, Orcs for long term dynasties and such and thus more than just a game or two to try them out like I did with Undead or Skaven. But I'd really like to take on a new challenge. Norse? Khemri? Or just head back to Chaos Dwarves or necro?

[Groundhog]

Khemri are a real challenge to start with, but end up being pretty brutal. One of the most "different" teams, though.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Now if they could only get a semi-component AI worked out...

[Groundhog]

As I said above all those years ago, programming AI Blood Bowl is harder than programming AI chess, but there are at least a few things they should be able to implement better - awareness of turn 8/16 in particular when it comes to scoring TDs... far too often the AI doesn't get guys into scoring positions for the final turn.

I think some races they've scripted better than others, mainly the teams where they try to score TDs quickly, like High Elves.

Online play can be a mixed bag, but I've been enjoying it lately. I wish they'd implement the changes to piling on that have been introduced in the boardgame to knock it down a little and stop high TR Chaos teams form being utter meat-grinders....

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

As I said above all those years ago, programming AI Blood Bowl is harder than programming AI chess, but there are at least a few things they should be able to implement better - awareness of turn 8/16 in particular when it comes to scoring TDs... far too often the AI doesn't get guys into scoring positions for the final turn...

You really think so? I don't know...

Maybe that's the case, but there seem to be very simple things that wouldn't seem that hard to program that could drastically improve the current AI. The awareness of turn 8/16 is definitely one. Trying to set up as many 2 Die blocks is another. Some calculation of risk, such that the AI tries the least riskiest stuff first and then progresses to the riskier actions, thus not ending it's turn right away by trying something quite hard and leaving a lot of easy rolls on the table, or simply non-rolling moves.

I just feel like there are a lot of basic 101-level things the AI just sucks at. While I am no AI expert, I feel like I have seen much, much more competent AI in much, much more complex games.

[Warhammer]

I realize this is resurrecting an ancient thread, but I am looking for a couple of coaches willing to play in an 8 team Blood Bowl 2 league with the majority of games on the weekend.

Outside of myself, most of the coaches are new, with roughly 10 games under their belt total.

Teams in the league currently:

Wood Elves
Chaos
Goblins
Skaven
Orcs (bit up in the air)
TBD (coach trying to figure out what to play)

Shoot me a PM if interested.

[RendeR]

I'm interested, I work nights but my weekends are mostly free. Humans for me.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

You really think so? I don't know...

Maybe that's the case, but there seem to be very simple things that wouldn't seem that hard to program that could drastically improve the current AI. The awareness of turn 8/16 is definitely one. Trying to set up as many 2 Die blocks is another. Some calculation of risk, such that the AI tries the least riskiest stuff first and then progresses to the riskier actions, thus not ending it's turn right away by trying something quite hard and leaving a lot of easy rolls on the table, or simply non-rolling moves.

I just feel like there are a lot of basic 101-level things the AI just sucks at. While I am no AI expert, I feel like I have seen much, much more competent AI in much, much more complex games.

The current level of AI is still seriously lacking in BB2, I've been playing it a bit as a time killer and there are times I'm simply baffled as to why they do what they do.

1: I'm going to score on the next turn, my player with the ball is alone within 5 of the goal line. The AI has 4 players within reach of the ball. 3 of them go interfere with other players, the farthest away blitzes only to fall down in the attempt.

2: End of half choices. The AI has the ball on turn 6, has a line of blockers between any of my players and the ball carrier, yet the ball carrier fails to move enough each turn to allow them to score on turn 8 or 16. This happens ALL THE TIME.

3: blocking and blitzing choices. No matter how important it is to take down a specific player the AI will never go into a red dice situation to try and stop you. So long as you keep the strength odds in your favor you can effectively keep the AI sitting still.

4: Dead turns. Randomly AI teams with just, basically skip multiple turns in a game.

my nickel.

[Mota]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The current level of AI is still seriously lacking in BB2, I've been playing it a bit as a time killer and there are times I'm simply baffled as to why they do what they do.

1: I'm going to score on the next turn, my player with the ball is alone within 5 of the goal line. The AI has 4 players within reach of the ball. 3 of them go interfere with other players, the farthest away blitzes only to fall down in the attempt.

2: End of half choices. The AI has the ball on turn 6, has a line of blockers between any of my players and the ball carrier, yet the ball carrier fails to move enough each turn to allow them to score on turn 8 or 16. This happens ALL THE TIME.

3: blocking and blitzing choices. No matter how important it is to take down a specific player the AI will never go into a red dice situation to try and stop you. So long as you keep the strength odds in your favor you can effectively keep the AI sitting still.

4: Dead turns. Randomly AI teams with just, basically skip multiple turns in a game.

my nickel.

I find that the AI often doesn't try to score at all. We created a large league with a combination of human and AI teams, and found that creating bashing AI teams was a good alternative. Sure they don't score a lot of points, but they will kick the crap out of your team and make it exciting. They do a better job at the fighting part, so it keeps the games closer. You also get more attrition, which makes the leagues more interesting.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Mota

I find that the AI often doesn't try to score at all. We created a large league with a combination of human and AI teams, and found that creating bashing AI teams was a good alternative. Sure they don't score a lot of points, but they will kick the crap out of your team and make it exciting. They do a better job at the fighting part, so it keeps the games closer. You also get more attrition, which makes the leagues more interesting.

That's part of why we want to fill the league if at all possible, but this is a nice compromise.

I also agree with RendeR, one of the important skills in BB is recognizing when you need to make that 2 red die block, especially if you have a skill like wrestle.

[SirFozzie]

I may be interested, but I haven't played BB2 in a while (I was hoping BB3 was comingm but after the aborted announcement, it's been complete radio silence)

[Mota]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

That's part of why we want to fill the league if at all possible, but this is a nice compromise.

I also agree with RendeR, one of the important skills in BB is recognizing when you need to make that 2 red die block, especially if you have a skill like wrestle.

My play of the year in the league I was in was incredible. 4 dodges with a 3AGI player, 2 go for it's and a 2 red die tackle. I knocked the ball out of his hands and kept the game 1-1 where his ball carrier was literally 2 spaces from scoring and fully protected. I can't remember for sure but I think I had calculated the odds of successfully rolling all those dice was about 2%.

That was the only point I had all season, my team lost every other game, it was humiliating. Two 4-0 losses in a row, I thought that was almost impossible, it is pretty rare to get 2 points in a half, let alone that many. We actually had a 5-4 game in the league, that was insane. They were down to 3 on 3 in the later stages of the game due to attrition and were scoring almost every turn.

[Warhammer]

Bumping this again, have one final slot to fill. Also, we had to reset due to demand, so players that signed up will need to do so again. PM me if interested.