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Old 01-27-2020, 11:00 PM   #51
Warhammer
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Not a Reds fan, but Cincy is a fun place to be when the Reds are good.

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Old 01-27-2020, 11:11 PM   #52
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They've added Gray, Bauer, Miley, Castellanos, Moustakas, Akiyama and a bunch of smaller lottery ticket type players over the last year and a half. Ownership has finally decided to spend like the Cards and Williams has done a great job getting talent.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:59 PM   #53
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Yep, they've finally put some action to all that lip service that they've been giving out these years. It's about time. I want to see this team take that talent and put it along side the guys who looked like breakouts last season and make it all work.
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Old 01-28-2020, 07:12 AM   #54
Butter
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Now if only they would get a modern manager to go along with it, instead of whatever the fuck Bell was doing last year.

Or they can just run Iglesias back out there in every save situation again, and maybe he could go for 20 blown saves this year.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:27 AM   #55
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The Reds have spend more this year in free agency than the previous 10 years combined. Now that is something different.
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:58 PM   #56
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MLBPA to the MLB: "You cannot hand down any penalties to the Astros players for the playoff cheating scandal"

MLB to the Astros: "You must hire Dusty Baker as your new manager."

End of the season: Verlander throws 350 IP, Osuna pitches in 160 games and Altuve has 800 ABs

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Old 01-28-2020, 03:42 PM   #57
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The Pirates dumping Marte on a Sunday during the biggest sports story in recent history(Kobe) is the most Pirates thing ever.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:44 PM   #58
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Couldn't last for the Reds. Suarez has surgery on his shoulder after a pool injury. Supposed to be ready for the season, but you know how these things go.
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Old 01-29-2020, 03:50 AM   #59
SirFozzie
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It looks like Mookie is hitting FA (or being traded, and THEN probably hitting FA). There are reports that the Sox offered him 10/300, he wanted 12/420.

That's years/Millions btw.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:45 AM   #60
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Couldn't last for the Reds. Suarez has surgery on his shoulder after a pool injury. Supposed to be ready for the season, but you know how these things go.

I'm afraid the "clean-up" surgery is a BS description. I thought clean-ups were about chronic conditions, not a response to a traumatic injury. If he's out for an extended period or the injury saps his power the Reds will really feel it. It's hard to replace a 50 HR infielder.
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Old 01-29-2020, 04:40 PM   #61
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Dusty Baker is the new manager of the Astros
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Old 01-29-2020, 05:49 PM   #62
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Brutal punishment from MLB
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:10 AM   #63
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Brutal punishment from MLB

We need the ability to like posts just for this... because I feel compelled to acknowledge I thought the same thing, but I also feel like I'm just cluttering the thread up saying that. Or we can all just feel safe in the fact that we're all brilliant and say funny things from time to time.
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Old 01-30-2020, 09:03 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by SirFozzie View Post
It looks like Mookie is hitting FA (or being traded, and THEN probably hitting FA). There are reports that the Sox offered him 10/300, he wanted 12/420.

That's years/Millions btw.

Yeah so that too and not sure I would pay him now I am not sure part of his success wasn’t out to the cheating scandal stuff with Cora. Dark days in RS Nation.
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:38 PM   #65
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After seeing the results from the Astros cheating and Marwin Gonzalez being a possible ringleader I am hoping if the Twins werent cheating this past year. I mean there power surge this past year basically came out of nowhere.

Max Kepler 36 home runs(previous high 20)
Nelson Cruz 41 home runs(39 years old)
Mitch Garver 31 home runs(previous high 7)
Jorge Polanco 22 home runs(1 previous season over 10)
Miguel Sano 34 home runs(always been a huge power threat but over the 2nd have of the season he was on a lot of pitches he previously would have swung and missed in previous years)
Eddie Rosario(1st year over 30 home runs)...His numbers arent crazy unusual

Kepler and Garver really stick out as very unusual.

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Old 02-01-2020, 11:24 PM   #66
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Straight, right, down, down and left. Amazing thing is he didn't strike out all 27.

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Old 02-02-2020, 01:23 PM   #67
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Straight, right, down, down and left. Amazing thing is he didn't strike out all 27.





I skipped 2 classes and took a 0 on a quiz because me and my buddies were glued to the couch and pounding beers while this was unfolding. Great f'ng day.

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Old 02-04-2020, 09:25 PM   #68
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Per Jeff Passan, the Red Sox are sending Betts and Price to the Dodgers.
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Old 02-04-2020, 09:30 PM   #69
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Per Jeff Passan, the Red Sox are sending Betts and Price to the Dodgers.

Passan has followed up now, saying it's a 3-team deal involving the Twins as well

edit to add: Also seeing a lot about a Joc Pedersen to the Angels in a separate deal to follow.
Unclear what the Twins are giving up and to whom

double edit: Ken Rosenthal says it's "Maeda to #MNTwins for RHP Brusdar Graterol, who will be part of package going to #RedSox, source tells The Athletic.
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:14 PM   #70
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If Verdugo and Maeda are all the Dodgers are giving up in this deal, the Red Sox got straight robbed.
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:10 PM   #71
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If Verdugo and Maeda are all the Dodgers are giving up in this deal, the Red Sox got straight robbed.

And they got the Sox to pay for half of Price's contract
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Old 02-04-2020, 11:42 PM   #72
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I kind of feel the Dodgers should have given the Red Sox one of their two good catching prospects back as well.

Wowsers the Dodgers are stacked.

Dodgers are actually only paying around 48 million over 3 years for Price which seems to be around his actual market value. In other words the Red Sox gave up the 2nd best player in baseball for Alex Verdugo and Brusdar Graterol. Id certainly be pissed if I were a Red Sox fan.

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Old 02-05-2020, 07:15 AM   #73
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Rockies are probably kicking themselves for not taking th Cards offer for Arrenado.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:45 PM   #74
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Betts and Price on the Dodgers for what they gave up is pretty unreal here. What exactly are the Red Sox doing here?
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:10 PM   #75
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there will be a new Curse of the Mookie
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:39 PM   #76
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Betts and Price on the Dodgers for what they gave up is pretty unreal here. What exactly are the Red Sox doing here?

It's just a salary dump to get under the luxury tax threshold. If they're under it for a year, then they can (theoretically) chose to go over it again with reduced penalties next year - a time that they know they wouldn't have Betts on the team either way.

Maybe they would have gotten more for him if everyone didn't know they were trading him to dump the salary no matter what.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:47 PM   #77
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Betts and Price on the Dodgers for what they gave up is pretty unreal here. What exactly are the Red Sox doing here?

They weren't winning the East this year and Betts wants $40 mil per. The fact that the Red Sox were desperate to unload Price and no one other than the Dodgers were willing to take him says a lot about his health.

I don't think it's a great deal for Boston at all, but they did add a 3-5 win outfielder and trimmed a significant amount of current and future payroll which allows them to hit the set button in a sense.

They could have swung a better deal for prospects with the Padres, but then they're left with no way to unload Price. I think this was a suck it up and take what's offered deal rather than trying to get the sexy prospects.
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Old 02-05-2020, 05:48 PM   #78
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I'm understanding of the situation. Would I prefer to have Mookie on my team in 2020 and beyond? Yes. To steal a popular line from a way back... "That's a clown question, bro". Mookie is one of the five best players in the league. He made the Red Sox better. He's going to make the Dodgers better. He'll make whatever team he's on in 2021 and beyond better.

But it's like ripping off a band-aid. To be done cleanly, it had to be done quickly. This is not the result of John Henry suddenly deciding "Well, I don't want to spend any more money on the Red Sox." The years leading up to this had so many inflection points.

There was so many times that the Sox could have faced the music and tried to set things up for a sustainable, successful future that were missed. For example, after the 2018 title, the Red Sox resigned Sale and Eovaldi for high value. The reason? There wasn't too much on the market, and Red Sox fans wouldn't accept stepping back after a season where they won the title. While Dombrowski's the one who did the move, Henry obviously had to sign off on it, and I'm betting that's a decision he's regretted bitterly.

I've seen some Red Sox fans say "The difference between the Sox offer and Mookie's demand was $120 million. The Red Sox are worth five billion. PAY THE MAN HIS MONEY". Again, I have some sympathy for that view. But let's look at the situation as it stood this off season.

If you pay Betts somewhere close to his 12/420 demand, you're not only adding 35 million a year in salary, but over the next three years, you're adding an extra $100 million in luxury tax payments and further crippling the farm system with Draft Pick Penalties. And to surround Betts with future players (because again, the farm system cupboard is pretty freaking bare without this trade, not ot mention any possible penalties if Cora is found to have brought the sign stealing system to the Sox) just keeps adding more and more and more and more. There has to be a point where even Billionaires can't countenance it.

In Verdugo and Graterol, we get two top 100 prospects. This season was already treading downhill, thanks to injury concerns, especially when it comes to lack of pitching that can survive a season. Oh yeah, and the Sox don't have a manager, thanks to the Astros (and Red Sox) sign stealing controversies. That's why the over/under on the Sox 2020 season only went down ONE WIN (from 87.5 to 86.5) after trading a top 10 MVP candidate and a still pretty good (if injury risky and way overpaid) pitcher.

It's not like John Henry hasn't had a record of bringing the Sox success. Four titles in fifteen years is something that just about any team in any sport would love to have. And being a fan of soccer, I have a somewhat similar situation to fall back on, and surprise it's a John Henry-owned team. Liverpool was forced to sell one of the best players in the world, Roberto Firmino, to Barcelona, and a lot of people wondered if Liverpool would just simply become just another selling team when the big clubs called. Now they have the largest lead in Premier League history, are the champions of Europe (and the World), and look to go from strength to strength.

Once it became clear that signing Mookie and keeping a championship-calibre team around him would require oh, say a spare half-billion or so (and that number would not go down, only UP), then it became time to face the music, take the medicine and try to set up something so that when we slide from the heights, we catch ourselves before it turns into a full fledged fall to the bottom, and start climbing back up.

It sucks. It really does. I mean, we're talking about a player that did THIS in a meaningless end-season game last year.

Betts hustles home as Red Sox walk off | Orioles-Red Sox Game Highlights 9/29/19 - YouTube

But there was really no good options here.

edit: and I'd still have John Henry as my owner over just about any other owner our there. Think of it this way, we could be the Mets clown car of ownership.
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Old 02-06-2020, 09:40 AM   #79
jbergey22
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Twins are passing along their damaged goods to the Red Sox and the Red Sox have little choice but to accept it. Love it. I bit late in the game to tell Mookie and Price to come back with open arms.
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:10 AM   #80
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Are we supposed to give the Dodgers the title belt for the Evil Empire of Baseball now?
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:21 AM   #81
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Think of it this way, we could be the Mets clown car of ownership.

Eat a bag of dicks

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Old 02-06-2020, 12:54 PM   #82
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It was pretty common knowledge that Graterol would likely end up a reliever. Good scouting there by Boston
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Old 02-07-2020, 02:56 AM   #83
MrBug708
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Are we supposed to give the Dodgers the title belt for the Evil Empire of Baseball now?

We don't overspend anymore. Hell, we just gave Max Muncy a 3 year extension for 26.5 million total, with a team option year.

OPS+ in last 2 seasons (100 is average)
Max Muncy (145)
Cody Bellinger (144)
Juan Soto (140)
Freddie Freeman (138)
Nolan Arenado (131)
Bryce Harper (130)
Anthony Rizzo (130)
Paul Goldschmidt (127)
Manny Machado (127)
Kris Bryant (126)
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Old 02-07-2020, 11:28 AM   #84
lungs
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Runnin’ Ron Roenicke named Red Sox manager.

Has he learned from his running and bunting ways from Milwaukee?

He wasn’t terrible, but some of the small ball stuff was maddening. And playing Mark Kotsay in CF during the 2011 NLCS will always stand out in my mind of things that annoyed me.
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Old 02-07-2020, 10:11 PM   #85
PilotMan
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Damn, this just keeps looking worse and worse for the Astros. More and more that penalty looks like a joke.


Report -- Intern introduced Astros to 'Codebreaker' sign-stealing program
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:42 PM   #86
Galaril
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45 year Red Sox fan and this is the worst period for the Sox. Yeah we just went thru a 4 championship run in 16 years but the last one is either going to get asterisk or removed for blatant cheating which they are guilty of for damn sure. They were already screwed with the bad contracts and the one they should have made for our own Jeter should have been made. The f’ing RS are already. The most overpriced seat in MLB. why the hell would we pay those ridiculous prices now? Oh well at least the curse was busted back in 04.

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Old 02-08-2020, 10:51 PM   #87
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Awwwwwwww. Poor Boston sports fans....
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Old 02-08-2020, 10:59 PM   #88
jbergey22
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I hate the Red Sox even more. They agreed to a trade in which everyone knew the situation with Graterol and his long term future as a relief pitcher. Now because they realize how idiotic they are for trading Betts and their fans being absolutely pissed off they are trying to ransom the Twins into giving up more. Fuck you Red Sox. I hope the Twins back out rather than give the Red Sox anything else.

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Old 02-08-2020, 11:47 PM   #89
Galaril
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Awwwwwwww. Poor Boston sports fans....


Yeah having never been a Patriots fan (Houston Oilers/ Titans fan) I never got to be fit from the cheating the Pats got away with it.
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:20 AM   #90
molson
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Boston fandom is a delightful alternating of championships and hilarious bungling drama.

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Old 02-09-2020, 07:28 PM   #91
jbergey22
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Looks like the Betts trade is nearing a conclusion with two separate trades. The Dodgers will now get Betts, Price, & Graterol. Twins will still get Maeda. Conflicting reports as to either Twins or Dodgers giving up another minor piece.

Red Sox getting Verdugo & Jeter Downs & Connor Wong(instead of Graterol). The Dodgers 7th and 13th ranked prospects according to fangraphs.

I hope Graterol had a nice career for the Dodgers. That was BS what the Red Sox did. Dodgers doctors had no issues with his health.
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Old 02-09-2020, 08:10 PM   #92
Atocep
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That was BS what the Red Sox did. Dodgers doctors had no issues with his health.

Didn't you call him damaged goods? The Dodgers had more interest in making sure the Betts deal didn't fall apart over a relief prospect.
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Old 02-09-2020, 09:39 PM   #93
PilotMan
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Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post
Looks like the Betts trade is nearing a conclusion with two separate trades. The Dodgers will now get Betts, Price, & Graterol. Twins will still get Maeda. Conflicting reports as to either Twins or Dodgers giving up another minor piece.

Red Sox getting Verdugo & Jeter Downs & Connor Wong(instead of Graterol). The Dodgers 7th and 13th ranked prospects according to fangraphs.

I hope Graterol had a nice career for the Dodgers. That was BS what the Red Sox did. Dodgers doctors had no issues with his health.


5 and 28 according to mlb.com


This might actually be a better deal for LA than before.


Graterol is the Twins #3.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:31 PM   #94
Atocep
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5 and 28 according to mlb.com


This might actually be a better deal for LA than before.


Graterol is the Twins #3.

I think the Red Sox come out a bit better. The Dodgers didn't really have room for Downs or Wong though. I don't think there's any chance in hell Graterol sticks as a starter. He already has elbow and shoulder issues and has pitched 214 innings in 5 minor league seasons.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:32 PM   #95
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I think the Red Sox come out a bit better. The Dodgers didn't really have room for Downs or Wong though. I don't think there's any chance in hell Graterol sticks as a starter. He already has elbow and shoulder issues and has pitched 214 innings in 5 minor league seasons.


Well, if there's a team that's got room at the back end of the bullpen for a hard throwing smoke machine it's the Dodgers.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:49 PM   #96
jbergey22
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Dodgers got a 67th pick also. I think both the Red Sox and Twins lost a bit from the original deal. Jeter Downs looks decent but the other prospect was an area the Dodgers could easily afford to trade with a couple uber prospects at the catcher position. If Jeter Downs hits his potential can he start on a loaded Red Sox team? That is the question I would have about him. The Red Sox can just pay up if they need to replace an average MLB starter.

Graterol wont be a starter but he could learn to own the 7th and 8th innings.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:52 PM   #97
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Didn't you call him damaged goods? The Dodgers had more interest in making sure the Betts deal didn't fall apart over a relief prospect.

Prior to getting all the information. It seems only the Red Sox doctors think he is damaged goods. The well prepared MLB teams appeared to already know his future was going to be dominating in the bullpen.

Dodgers made out like bandits in all area's. And the Red Sox are idiots for getting this low of a return on the 2nd best player in baseball.

Last edited by jbergey22 : 02-09-2020 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 01:25 AM   #98
JonInMiddleGA
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Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post
And the Red Sox are idiots for getting this low of a return on the 2nd best player in baseball.

Unless you consider how few teams are in the market for a 1 yr rental of Betts and even half of Price's lost money.

Then it becomes a lot more understandable.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:52 AM   #99
jbergey22
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Unless you consider how few teams are in the market for a 1 yr rental of Betts and even half of Price's lost money.

Then it becomes a lot more understandable.

Well, with what the Red Sox are kicking in financially for Price the Dodgers are getting the market rate for him if you consider Price on par with Dallas Keuchel.

Do we know for certain Betts wasnt going to re-sign with the Red Sox if they offered him a market level contract? From what I read they low-balled him just so they could say they attempted with obvious intention of trading him. He was offered 8 years 200 million when Bryce Harper got 13 years 330 million and Anthony Rendon 7 years 245 million. So in comparison its not a market level offer.

If their goal was to save money I think you start by seeing what return they could have gotten from JD Martinez.

So IMO they are still idiots because they were offering up huge money to Eovaldi without planning for this salary cap tax problem and not realizing they we might need to set aside some money for their star in a year or two.

Trading Betts might make sense if you are a small market team. It makes no sense when you are the Yankees, Red Sox, or Angels as them are the players they overpay in free agency anyway.

Also, I would not be surprised if owners push to get a limit on guaranteed contract length. These players being offered 8+ year guaranteed contracts is pretty crazy. Not likely, but if Trout pulls a Pujols and forgets to hit they are stuck for 400 million. Also, does it make players like Bryce Harper work any harder in the off season if he locked in for the next 12 years making millions despite his performance?

Last edited by jbergey22 : 02-10-2020 at 09:02 AM.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:30 AM   #100
molson
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Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post

Do we know for certain Betts wasnt going to re-sign with the Red Sox if they offered him a market level contract? From what I read they low-balled him just so they could say they attempted with obvious intention of trading him. He was offered 8 years 200 million when Bryce Harper got 13 years 330 million and Anthony Rendon 7 years 245 million. So in comparison its not a market level offer.


The report was that they offered 10/300 and he countered with 12/420.

Last edited by molson : 02-10-2020 at 09:32 AM.
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