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Old 04-07-2020, 08:29 PM   #201
JonInMiddleGA
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Atocep - you're far closer to all this than I'll ever be, the one thing that jumped out to me in there is that I doubt many people (in general) realize how common the JUCO-to-D1 pipeline is for baseball (maybe other sports too, I dunno).

There are whole 2-year programs built largely around being that conduit, the "success here will get you an offer elsewhere" notion. When the pipeline is ruptured as it is with this, it makes a mess EVERYWHERE.
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Old 04-07-2020, 09:30 PM   #202
Atocep
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Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA View Post
Atocep - you're far closer to all this than I'll ever be, the one thing that jumped out to me in there is that I doubt many people (in general) realize how common the JUCO-to-D1 pipeline is for baseball (maybe other sports too, I dunno).

There are whole 2-year programs built largely around being that conduit, the "success here will get you an offer elsewhere" notion. When the pipeline is ruptured as it is with this, it makes a mess EVERYWHERE.


It's the key pipeline in the PNW due to the limited offers for kids coming directly out of high school. It's really common for kids around here to struggle with the decision to go JUCO or D2/D3 simply because signing with a D2/D3 effectively ends the D1 dream. Top Jucos routinely put 3-4 starters or more per year in D1 programs around the country here so it's a legitimate path.

TCC is best described as baseball's Last Chance U. Oregon and UW both rely heavily on placing kids there and most starters will end up playing D1 baseball somewhere. Looking at their 2020 class, I see at least 5 that were committed to Power 5 programs at one point. The problem committing there is they heavily recruit D1 wash-backs that are looking for a place to play for a year before essentially becoming a free agent looking for the best D1 offer. It's why I don't think my son would have signed with TCC even if they had offered early. It's more of a player factory rather than a school that focuses on individual development. I don't want to sound too negative about their program as they great at what they do, but my son wasn't interested in a revolving door of coaches and wondering if he's going to get lost in the shuffle because a freshman at UW wasn't getting enough playing time or didn't make grades.
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:06 PM   #203
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It's such a mess that MLB is making worse by shortening the draft.
There isn't going to be minor league baseball this year. Maybe you can have complex leagues or at least somewhere for AAAA players or top upper minors prospects who are on the 40 man bubble to play if MLB does it's Arizona plan? This is another knock on effect of a messed up situation, but why would MLB draft HS players with less scouting while knowing they'll basically sit out a whole summer of development?

I'm from the lacrosse side, not baseball, but it's part of why I'm pushing against the idea that we should continue this social distancing to the extent schools are closed indefinitely... there are 40 million kids between the ages of 5-22 that are probably losing a whole year of academic, social, and athletic development. The college stuff is going to be a mess to figure out, but at least the eligibility is there... I've coached a group of kids since they were in 4th grade, lost 2 straight state championships by a combined 3 goals & many have been working towards a potential title in Spring 2020 for a decade. They're going to go into the same problem (especially the D3 commits who aren't promised a roster spot) for the next 4 years where there are 25% more players competing for playing time in college, and they're also not going to be allowed to have their senior season, their senior prom, their senior year(spring) of HS, and they'll never get that back. Since schools end later (end of June) there's a chance Massachusetts will go back May 4 & have an abbreviated season + playoffs, but it's really not looking likely. (On the plus side New Hampshire's HS athletic association President did come out today and say there is no reason they couldn't still hold athletic events while students are learning from home as long as it was safe, so maybe that's an avenue.)
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Old 04-07-2020, 11:21 PM   #204
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There isn't going to be minor league baseball this year. Maybe you can have complex leagues or at least somewhere for AAAA players or top upper minors prospects who are on the 40 man bubble to play if MLB does it's Arizona plan? This is another knock on effect of a messed up situation, but why would MLB draft HS players with less scouting while knowing they'll basically sit out a whole summer of development?

You'll still see high school kids drafted. They're just going to have to commit to signing during an in-home and drop any threats to go through with a commitment. It's not like they haven't been scouting a lot of these kids for 2+ years and have data on most into March. We had a pitcher with 20+ mlb scouts watching a start in January, a high school teammate of my son hosted the Brewers in January, and travel team teammate had Oakland in their home over the fall. The teams know these kids. This is just as much about saving money and cutting minor league teams as anything else. MLB doesn't want a 40 round draft and they don't want kids using college commitments to secure 7 figure bonuses outside the first round.


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I'm from the lacrosse side, not baseball, but it's part of why I'm pushing against the idea that we should continue this social distancing to the extent schools are closed indefinitely... there are 40 million kids between the ages of 5-22 that are probably losing a whole year of academic, social, and athletic development. The college stuff is going to be a mess to figure out, but at least the eligibility is there... I've coached a group of kids since they were in 4th grade, lost 2 straight state championships by a combined 3 goals & many have been working towards a potential title in Spring 2020 for a decade. They're going to go into the same problem (especially the D3 commits who aren't promised a roster spot) for the next 4 years where there are 25% more players competing for playing time in college, and they're also not going to be allowed to have their senior season, their senior prom, their senior year(spring) of HS, and they'll never get that back. Since schools end later (end of June) there's a chance Massachusetts will go back May 4 & have an abbreviated season + playoffs, but it's really not looking likely. (On the plus side New Hampshire's HS athletic association President did come out today and say there is no reason they couldn't still hold athletic events while students are learning from home as long as it was safe, so maybe that's an avenue.)

This is the situation our household is in. My son's senior year of baseball was officially canceled yesterday. This was a state tournament team last year that graduated 2 starters and was one of the favorites for a what would have been the school's first state title. It's an incredibly close group of kids and considered the most talented baseball class in the school's history. I'm optimistic we'll have summer baseball up and running here by June or July, but that's up in the air at best. If it does happen there certainly won't be the amount of travel for us that was expected. It's going to be a focus on local tournaments.
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Old 04-08-2020, 11:38 AM   #205
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I have a few friends who each coach High school baseball. Both of them said something interesting to me (independently). Basically, the club+school grind is so intense that both thought having one season off was great for all the kids. They acknowledged they would miss a little development, but the rest for their body (esp arms) was probably worth it. Just an interesting point I hadn't really thought of before talking with them.
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Old 04-09-2020, 10:38 PM   #206
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Wisconsin won't bring back seniors in spring sports next year
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Old 04-14-2020, 10:42 PM   #207
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Game 1 of the '88 Series on ESPN tonight as it played out in real time. A combination of missing baseball and rewatching the pivotal moment of my youth, and one of the biggest in sports history nearly brought me to tears once again.
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Old 04-14-2020, 11:02 PM   #208
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Game 1 of the '88 Series on ESPN tonight as it played out in real time. A combination of missing baseball and rewatching the pivotal moment of my youth, and one of the biggest in sports history nearly brought me to tears once again.

Yeah didnt remember how long that at bat was. Was anxiously watching even though I obviously knew the outcome. One of the greatest moments in baseball history.
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:04 AM   #209
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One of the other things watching that reminded me of was how much faster baseball moved just 30 years ago.

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Old 04-15-2020, 08:25 AM   #210
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I remember exactly where I was for that HR. I loved Kirk Gibson. He was on my favorite Tigers team previously.

I just got goosebumps typing this.

Man, I miss baseball.
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:42 AM   #211
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One of the other things watching that reminded me of was how much faster baseball moved just 30 years ago.

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No kidding. Dave Stewart just stood up there and gunned. It was 3 pitches of his for every one of anyone today.
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Old 04-15-2020, 08:48 AM   #212
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No kidding. Dave Stewart just stood up there and gunned. It was 3 pitches of his for every one of anyone today.

Eckersley, too

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Old 04-15-2020, 09:38 AM   #213
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No kidding. Dave Stewart just stood up there and gunned. It was 3 pitches of his for every one of anyone today.

I loved watching guys like him pitch, get to work, get back to the dugout.
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Old 04-15-2020, 09:03 PM   #214
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Roy Halladay death has new details following NTSB report - Sports Illustrated

The National Transportation Safety Board's final report on Roy Halladay is awful to read. TLDR: he was an amateur pilot trying to do stunts while high as hell on pills.
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Old 04-15-2020, 10:06 PM   #215
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Game 1 of the '88 Series on ESPN tonight as it played out in real time. A combination of missing baseball and rewatching the pivotal moment of my youth, and one of the biggest in sports history nearly brought me to tears once again.

Two things for me

1. Vin Scully was okay at that broadcasting baseball thing, huh?

2. Joe Garagiola was Yogi Berra's playing equal for a long time in my head, soley because he was calling the one baseball game I saw each week and he was sitting next to Vin Scully.
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Old 04-15-2020, 10:50 PM   #216
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Roy Halladay death has new details following NTSB report - Sports Illustrated

The National Transportation Safety Board's final report on Roy Halladay is awful to read. TLDR: he was an amateur pilot trying to do stunts while high as hell on pills.

Yikes
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:19 PM   #217
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lol

MLB punishes Sox replay coordinator more harshly than players or coaches.
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Old 04-22-2020, 04:26 PM   #218
sterlingice
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MLB wants to make sure you remember that the Astros and only the Astros cheated, unlike pretty much every report out there that said about a half dozen teams around the league cheat in an organized fashion and another half dozen or so do it in a more ad hoc way.

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Old 04-22-2020, 09:25 PM   #219
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That punishment dropped by MLB today for that stuff was another total joke.
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Old 04-23-2020, 03:47 AM   #220
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That punishment dropped by MLB today for that stuff was another total joke.


The report seems to suggest they didnt find much beyond what a lot of teams were doing.

The Astros clearly went beyond what is typical and as far as I'm concerned are not rightful world series champions. The Red Sox on the other hand were clearly the superior and more deserving team
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Old 04-30-2020, 11:04 PM   #221
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Today I learned that Andre Dawson owns and operates a funeral home in Miami.
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Old 05-04-2020, 11:01 AM   #222
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dola

Not sure what the agreement is, but ESPN just announced they'll be carrying one Korean baseball game a day starting with opening day, tomorrow.
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Old 05-04-2020, 11:52 AM   #223
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Former Montreal Expos groundskeeper Joe Jammer says Pete Rose had bats corked

Well that's going to leave a stain on Pete's career.
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Old 05-04-2020, 12:38 PM   #224
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Former Montreal Expos groundskeeper Joe Jammer says Pete Rose had bats corked

Well that's going to leave a stain on Pete's career.

Where does this fit in relation to the gambling and the sex with a fifteen year-old?
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:32 PM   #225
Atocep
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5 round draft and undrafted players can sign for a max of $20k.

I know unions generally don't care much about players getting drafted, but I'm still surprised the union rolled over as much as they did on this.
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:37 PM   #226
Lathum
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Wait?

So the MLB draft just went from 9,398,800 rounds to 5 and everyone not drafted is a FA that can be signed for a max 20K
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:39 PM   #227
Atocep
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Wait?

So the MLB draft just went from 9,398,800 rounds to 5 and everyone not drafted is a FA that can be signed for a max 20K

Correct, the MLB draft will be shorter than the NFL draft.

The slot value of the last pick in the 10th round was $142k last year.
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:40 PM   #228
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thats insane and sees like it will massively favor big market teams.
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Old 05-08-2020, 06:46 PM   #229
sterlingice
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Or would just send players back to school

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Old 05-08-2020, 08:13 PM   #230
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Aren’t they cutting around 1000 minor league jobs?
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Old 05-08-2020, 10:35 PM   #231
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Trying to, yes. The local Keys are one of the teams set to be on the block. Which is unfortunate, as they have a nice setup here, IMO.

I don't know if they expect fans will opt to go to Baltimore or Washington instead, but...fat chance for me.
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Old 05-10-2020, 03:07 AM   #232
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Trevor Bauer has cell number leaked on ESPN, turns ‘massive screwup’ into Twitter giveaway - masslive.com
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Old 05-14-2020, 08:57 AM   #233
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:20 PM   #234
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Has anyone come across any good articles or explanations about what is going on with minor league baseball?

I get that no fans equals no season for minor leagues and have seen stuff about having larger MLB rosters with taxi squads (seems kind of fun/interesting for a year), but the ESPN article about cutting hundreds of jobs is real vague. Are we going to see a complete realignment in how baseball organizations work or is this more like a furlough/lay-off type situation where rights are still retained?

I’m hoping this isn’t owners backdooring their way out of continuing to fund and associate with minor league baseball, but it sure seems like the opportunity is there for them to protect and develop their top X number of players as assets and leave every other marginal prospect and vet to be free agent-types playing in in independent leagues (“dream leagues”).
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:37 PM   #235
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Yes, there's going to be a major realignment of minor-league baseball. Each team is going to have only four teams in their minor-league system and that works out to about 1500 players cut. It looks like MLB is taking advantage of the crisis to make those cuts now.
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Old 05-29-2020, 01:38 PM   #236
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Has anyone come across any good articles or explanations about what is going on with minor league baseball?

I get that no fans equals no season for minor leagues and have seen stuff about having larger MLB rosters with taxi squads (seems kind of fun/interesting for a year), but the ESPN article about cutting hundreds of jobs is real vague. Are we going to see a complete realignment in how baseball organizations work or is this more like a furlough/lay-off type situation where rights are still retained?

I’m hoping this isn’t owners backdooring their way out of continuing to fund and associate with minor league baseball, but it sure seems like the opportunity is there for them to protect and develop their top X number of players as assets and leave every other marginal prospect and vet to be free agent-types playing in in independent leagues (“dream leagues”).


A large portion of these cuts were guys that would have been cut after spring training. A 40 round draft brings in nearly 1300 players per year without getting into undrafted free agents. The timing of it raises concerns but most of these guys were probably getting cut anyway. How deep the rumored next round of cuts go will be one to watch.

The cuts to the draft and the upcoming cut of 1/4 of minor league teams is of much bigger concern and is a terrible decision by MLB. The advantage MLB has over the NBA and NFL is a deep minor league system makes professional baseball an attainable goal for a large number of high school and college players. That drives interest and youth participation in baseball has been up the past several years. Take away teams and push that goal further out of reach and I do think you start to see the impact trickle down.

That's without even getting into the community impact in places like Bluefield, which I'm sure you know how important having a team is to a town like that.
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:13 PM   #237
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Got it. I had heard about cutting the teams and the dream league concept. The article I read made me wonder if the owners were going to use this year, with the cuts in revenue and most likely no minor leagues at all this season, to justify taking a bigger bite out of the minors and place the burden on the local franchises/communities.
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:16 PM   #238
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They’re prob cutting the short season team that’s like 15 minutes from my house. But I’ve never gone anyways so no big deal. Erie being cut, however, will suck bad.
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Old 05-29-2020, 02:46 PM   #239
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Cutting minor league teams also hurts the overall exposure to the sport by kids. A lot of families can't afford to go to a big league game or don't have access. Going to a minor league game is a relatively inexpensive form of entertainment.
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Old 05-29-2020, 08:23 PM   #240
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I know I'm going to be pissed at the team, the new ownership, and everything in the future at some point, but I'm pretty happy about this right now

KC Royals are paying their minor leaguers for the whole year, And no releases. Here’s word from KC: “Haven’t had any (minors releases) and won’t through the the summer. !!!” Great organization with a heart!
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:30 PM   #241
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New MLB proposal to union has 76 game season

So the owners have given the players their latest proposal and the players have reportedly rejected it. So no baseball in 2020?
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Old 06-08-2020, 06:45 PM   #242
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I heard today the average age of someone who says baseball is their favorite sport is 53. This could be their death knell.
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:04 PM   #243
BYU 14
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New MLB proposal to union has 76 game season

So the owners have given the players their latest proposal and the players have reportedly rejected it. So no baseball in 2020?

At most they probably have until the end of this week to salvage any type of respectable season.

I think the owners are willing to give more, but are obviously lowballing. I wonder if they can bridge the big sticking point, which is guaranteed playoff money by offering a straight 75 or going up to 80% of pro-rated, and if the postseason is lost, pay what is in the current proposal (50%) and defer the rest so the players eventually get the full pro-rated amount regardless of any further disruptions.
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Old 06-08-2020, 07:08 PM   #244
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The owners want 50 games awill extend the negotiations until that point. There is a small group of owners that do not want to play at all.

I would guess either a 50 game season or no season.
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Old 06-10-2020, 09:23 PM   #245
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Interesting draft so far. Martin dropping to 5 and Hancock to 6 surprises me. The Giants go with Patrick Bailey 2 years after taking Joey Bart. Mick Abel drops to the Phillies at 15. The Red Sox take a guy at 17 that most didn't have in the top 100. I'm ecstatic the Mets were able to get Pete Crow Armstrong at 19.
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Old 06-11-2020, 08:21 AM   #246
sterlingice
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The Royals drafted a guy I never thought would fall to them at #4...and I'm kind of disappointed? This is so weird.
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out!

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Old 06-11-2020, 09:17 AM   #247
jbergey22
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
My biggest confusion with the negotiations is....

Shouldnt the players want less games and the owners want more games?

Why is this the opposite?

Isnt the money negotiations equal right now whether they play 50 or 100 games? Wouldnt the players want to get paid the same for less?

Maybe I missed something in the negotiations.
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:20 AM   #248
jbergey22
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Minnesota
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lathum View Post
I heard today the average age of someone who says baseball is their favorite sport is 53. This could be their death knell.

Same thing that was said 30 years ago. Baseball revenues have been increasing to the point where players are signing 400 million dollar contracts. I think they are fine.
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:39 AM   #249
JPhillips
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbergey22 View Post
My biggest confusion with the negotiations is....

Shouldnt the players want less games and the owners want more games?

Why is this the opposite?

Isnt the money negotiations equal right now whether they play 50 or 100 games? Wouldnt the players want to get paid the same for less?

Maybe I missed something in the negotiations.

Ina general sense it seems like the owners want the money from the playoffs and the players want to be paid per game played. The owners are going to make X revenue regardless of the number of games played because there won't be fans, so they are looking for a way to pay the players as little as possible and get on to the playoffs and the extra TV/streaming cash.
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Old 06-11-2020, 09:53 AM   #250
henry296
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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Originally Posted by JPhillips View Post
Ina general sense it seems like the owners want the money from the playoffs and the players want to be paid per game played. The owners are going to make X revenue regardless of the number of games played because there won't be fans, so they are looking for a way to pay the players as little as possible and get on to the playoffs and the extra TV/streaming cash.

Right, given the lack for fans, the owners lose money on each regular season game played.
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