WW CXLVIII - Ancient Infection - EVIL WINS!

[CrimsonFox]

Then we'll find a way to summon EF's back. Maybe EF and you can share a body or something.

[mauchow]

I would like that. If I die oh well I will one day be resurrected

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Woohoo! CF rocked this game

Glad you think so. It felt like work.
First bhlloy scans my bite choice in Chief. I guess it ended up having a good outcome. It made me NOT a candidate the next 2 days and led to runaway votes with ZERO vote history information.

Then Zinto blocks my bite on Danny night four.

It was thankfully you LSG talking me out of biting Raiders or Zinto and biting GE that kept us going.

[mauchow]

I should have done a much better job with my fake reveal but I was in a hurry to reveal and in bed..LOL thanks for falling for it.

[CrimsonFox]

Did you know that "Danny as a wolf-helper" sounds remarkably like "Danny being wrong"? Cute eh?

[CrimsonFox]

I seriously thought Danny was bitten for 2 whole days. I also thought Narc was then wasn't sure.
It was pretty painful. And then the reveals a plenty came ...

[mauchow]

Then I easily played off as dumb villager. :

[CrimsonFox]

And you should never fall for the old "My back hurts so much I can't post" routine. Granted my back hurt like hell for sure, so that wasn't BS. But wasn't a reason not to vote for me.

[CrimsonFox]

I think that's like 6 or 7 false reveals by mau. And I think like 4-5 of them have worked.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I should have done a much better job with my fake reveal but I was in a hurry to reveal and in bed..LOL thanks for falling for it.

yeah, like you just saying "I'm the seer, he's not. Don't fall for him because I messed up." while Simbo quotes an encyclopedia of knowledge at everyone and no one believes him. Actually your approach I think does seem to work more. Did sound believable. It works on TV at least. Simple slogans...

[Autumn]

Some highlights

-Day one, a Transformed and two doctors on the voting block.
-Simbo: "It does say regardless of faction or role... You might have been getting the duststeak."
-Mauboy: "You had a great run of scans though bhlloy, for that, we salute you! We will give you a proper burial. Prepare for the hook up your nostrils as we pull out your brain."
-Simbo: "He's basically letting you all know what a collection of asshats you are."

[Autumn]

The village made some great moves early, good scan choices, and curing Danny the same night he was infected. And Danny did a great job on analysis, using the rules to pin down a very narrow group to vote from.

[mauchow]

Lmao

[Autumn]

This was a game that could have easily avalanched to one side or the other, so I'm glad there was a good balanced run. I felt bad for the bad guys at first who couldn't seem to catch a break, then at the end I felt bad for the good guys who got stuck in a corner. Good play by all. CrimsonFox made a great call last night going for Jackal as an infection to make sure they had the votes today. Things could have gotten messy if they were stuck with a tie.

[CrimsonFox]

EF and mau, LSG actually were TRYING to get LSG lynched on Friday as she was a heavy target and then Jackal would have taken her place as the second transformed.

[CrimsonFox]

that should say LSG and I

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

This was a game that could have easily avalanched to one side or the other, so I'm glad there was a good balanced run. I felt bad for the bad guys at first who couldn't seem to catch a break, then at the end I felt bad for the good guys who got stuck in a corner. Good play by all. CrimsonFox made a great call last night going for Jackal as an infection to make sure they had the votes today. Things could have gotten messy if they were stuck with a tie.

Yeah there were points that were excrutiating. Just not knowing if certain people were going to be around and such. Blood pressure through the roof.

I kept remembering the quote, "That was the worst good time I've ever had" from Hitchhiker's guide.

[Autumn]

Yeah that was kind of funny that you guys were hoping to get her killed while EF was working to save her.

I expected a lot more villager paranoia. I thought that a few days ago at least one could easily make a case that Danny was a Monster or Infected leading the village by the nose. I thought one could have easily turned the tables on him at that point in at least a lot of minds and made things messy, but CF and LSG were trying to lay low I guess, and of course the infected weren't necessarily sure what was going on.

[Autumn]

Yeah, I thought you were going to have a coronary, CF, pretty much from day one on.

[CrimsonFox]

I just realized that Chief wins and Danny loses.

[Autumn]

Oh right, he died Infected, I forgot that.

[mauchow]

Who did u guys think I was? Seer or cultist.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

Yeah that was kind of funny that you guys were hoping to get her killed while EF was working to save her.

I expected a lot more villager paranoia. I thought that a few days ago at least one could easily make a case that Danny was a Monster or Infected leading the village by the nose. I thought one could have easily turned the tables on him at that point in at least a lot of minds and made things messy, but CF and LSG were trying to lay low I guess, and of course the infected weren't necessarily sure what was going on.

That's just it. There wasn't the ability for any corodination on the wolf side except for EF. hell most of the infected thought I was a villager.

I still think this was heavily heavily favoring the village. Like from the following math.

2 straight seers + 2 scanners + 2 superscanners (who not only receive their results but the scanners receive them too) + an extra revealer day 3. That's 7 people that can reveal by day 3 + 2 free N0 scans - Zero nightkills until at least night 2. So by day 2 there is the potential of 12 people cleared. And then the monsters have to play catch up on 2 seers for nightkills.

And if just ONE of the infected aren't following everything in the thread and choose someone else, the seer gets yet ANOTHER scan.

Add to that the potential that any ONE of the 6 scanners/seers can be up for lynch and reveal not only themselves but everyone they clear + the nurses and doctors getting to doublecheck every scan the nurses made to confirm themselves.

[Danny]

Good job ef, crimson and lsg!

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Who did u guys think I was? Seer or cultist.

Who us? I knew you were cultist the second you spoke
I was ROTFLing.

[CrimsonFox]

It was hilarious that Danny berated me for voting for you instead of the seer and thought _I_ was the cultist.

[mauchow]

Originally Posted by Danny

Good job ef, crimson and lsg!

Heeeyyy lol

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Danny

Good job ef, crimson and lsg!

when you made a quote saying that you hoped the Doctor won't be infected and that you received the scan results, I thought you were lying on purpose to hint to us or something. Cause the night before was when I tried to bite you. But then I found out that yes nurses receive their scan results and the doctor did too. Was very depressed from then on.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Heeeyyy lol

GREAT JOB MUMMY MASTER MAUBOY!

[Autumn]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

That's just it. There wasn't the ability for any corodination on the wolf side except for EF. hell most of the infected thought I was a villager.

I still think this was heavily heavily favoring the village. Like from the following math.

2 straight seers + 2 scanners + 2 superscanners (who not only receive their results but the scanners receive them too) + an extra revealer day 3. That's 7 people that can reveal by day 3 + 2 free N0 scans - Zero nightkills until at least night 2. So by day 2 there is the potential of 12 people cleared. And then the monsters have to play catch up on 2 seers for nightkills.

And if just ONE of the infected aren't following everything in the thread and choose someone else, the seer gets yet ANOTHER scan.

Add to that the potential that any ONE of the 6 scanners/seers can be up for lynch and reveal not only themselves but everyone they clear + the nurses and doctors getting to doublecheck every scan the nurses made to confirm themselves.

Yes, but consider the fact that two bad guys got scanned on N1 and N2 and the Mummy was exposed for the Mummy Hunter to off for free, yet the bad guys still managed to win pretty handily. Also consider that many of those scans were only worth a partial scan really given their limit.

The game is also weighted heavily in favor of the bad guys, when you consider that if you get your first couple infections you have a constant supply of Transformed as long as the Mummyholds out. That can be pretty damn tough for the village. They were lucky to catch Chief and then EF and keep that from happening.

[Autumn]

That said, I had tweaked the Nurse/Doctor rules a bit to help the village, and think maybe it was too much. Originally each nurse was meant to communicate with only one doctor, which would limit them. In addition I made the Doctors uninfectable. The fear is if they weren't the bad guys could easily fake as doctors or nurses and it would be near impossible to out them (never mind seers). I was surprised there wasn't more fake reveals early in this game, I thought it would be a great move for a Transformed.

I'm interested in feedback on the doctors and nurses though. I think I would probably go back to pairing them up individually. And I wonder if nurses should have been able to see their own results. That turned out to be powerful at the end as it could rule out Transformed.

[Danny]

I think the balance was ok, there was certainly a distinct possibility for one side to have a huge advantage based on the first couple days, but I don't know how you would remove that in a game like this. If crimson ends up lynched day 1, it's probably an easy village win in the end

[CrimsonFox]

There's my favorite mummy. COme here you son of a bitch EF!

[CrimsonFox]

Oh yeah the other thing I think need analyzing was the order. That along with the other things was devastatingly powerful.
I spoke with you about this earlier and abided by your ruling and decision and all but I think it need analysis.

So order is:
1) Bite
2) Cure
3) View
4) Nightkill

So that means if:
1, then 2...an instant cure. Like Danny
1, then 3...instant scan...Like Chief
2, then 4...a scanner can cure someone on the way out...Like Zinto curing Narcizo

all those things fit the order.
But then something like...
1, then 4...biting then killing if the victim was not cured....that should ALSO be valid if the above was valid. This would have given Chief a night kill first night before being outted for lynch vote the next day. Now I understand since the deadlines are what they are, Chief couldn't put in a night kill order while the night actions were happening, then either some delayed NK should have been worked into the rules or else if things are happening at the same time then the stuff above shouldn't have all been allowed either. I don't know. Something needs to be fixed with that I think. Some special doohickey for that case. Cause this along with the 7 scanners with 4 linked was megapowerful.

[EagleFan]

Way to close it out!

I started the game out unable to really get into it. But then as soon as i was outed i just figured that i would let it all hang out. I wanted to cause as much confusion as possible amongst the village.

With the lsg save, that was just a fun game of chicken. I wanted to keep danny second guessing himself. ;-)

[mauchow]

I had a feeling you would want me to switch last second too so I hung around that night. I didnt go back to see if lsg would have been lynched if the late switches weren't made.

I too had fun effing around after being outed.

[Autumn]

I know you felt the order was not to your advantage, CF, but I feel it's that way on purpose. It would be just as devastating to the other side to have a scan happen before an infection. Imagine picking the scans just right every single night, yet being told each time the person is a villager.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

I had a feeling you would want me to switch last second too so I hung around that night. I didnt go back to see if lsg would have been lynched if the late switches weren't made.

I too had fun effing around after being outed.

I think the only true fun I had was watching you and EF, mau. Great performances. The rest of the time I was stressed out beyond belief.
Until I got to act like a C'thulian Bond villain at the end. That was fun. I tried to channel my evil. Sorry Zinto. But hoped you like the poem anyway. I honestly had no idea why you were still alive at that point. I guess GE thought you were a wolf.

And speaking of which, could the infected have tried any harder to take out all the uncleared vanilla villagers? I mean not knowing who was who is fine. But why not go for Danny or Jag? They could be roles too? And if they aren't...hey! You've STILL removed Danny or Jag!
Those two indeed are so dangerous...but now I at least see reason to keep Danny in the game to lead people off cliffs and junk.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Autumn

I know you felt the order was not to your advantage, CF, but I feel it's that way on purpose. It would be just as devastating to the other side to have a scan happen before an infection. Imagine picking the scans just right every single night, yet being told each time the person is a villager.

Oh definitely! I'm not suggesting that. Bite then scan yeah I see no problem with that. I think it lies more in giving the bad team a kill of some kind somehow.

So some combination of that, removing the 2 free scans for the professors and not tying the doctors and nurses together so strongly I think would be more fair. LIke maybe as I THOUGHT was the case, not giving the nurses their scan results. Cause someone scanning but the results going somewhere else I did think was a kinda cool idea. But both knowing the results was instant verification and clearance. It's all about the clearance.

[CrimsonFox]

(and about the Pentiums)

[Autumn]

Yeah, I think I agree about the nurses, though makes them useless if their doctor dies. Maybe leave them grouped as they were, but not seeing their own scans.

The only time the kill order thing would cause a problem is if you have no Infected, so I don't really see that as a big disadvantage. Getting your very first Infected scanned the very first night should be a big problem for the bad guys. But since you could end up with half a dozen Infected, I don't think it's a big long-term problem.

[CrimsonFox]

And maybe just not so MANY scanners as another possible adjustment. I almost felt this was an overcompensation for losing Harvey Dent day one or Danny and Jackal dying at the same time in Batman returns.

I keep thinking these games wouldn't be spoiled as much if they weren't werewolf voting type games and more like abe's damage-based dungeon based games

[Autumn]

WEll, it didn't really hurt you having so many scanners, so stop your crying ;-)

[Danny]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

With the lsg save, that was just a fun game of chicken. I wanted to keep danny second guessing himself. ;-)

Well, I consider it a compliment that you based your whole strategy around trying to fool me

[CrimsonFox]

Actually Zinto, you kind of kicked ass. You cured 3 people.
Blocked my Danny bite night 4, Cured Jackal next night out of nowhere, Cured Narcizo night after that.

[CrimsonFox]

So no I don't want to play "rock paper scissors lizard spock" with you either.

[Narcizo]

Yeah. Nothing against the rules or the game but that was pretty tough game for me to play. Playing wolf when you don't know who you should target makes for an inactive Narc.

I totally thought Danny was infected - even when he claimed to have scanned me. I had no idea why no-one was challenging him. And Zinto said something about what we should do regarding Simbo which made me think he was bad as well.

[Danny]

So basically everyone was wrong about everyone lol

[CrimsonFox]

lol

[CrimsonFox]

But Danny DID scan you Narcizo. That's how I knew he knew you were bad. That is also how I knew Danny never was converted. Actually at that point I thought both of you were chasing each other's tails as infected as neither of you knew who each other were. Oh yeah Danny, Doctors couldn't be infected. I was wanting to correct you on a couple things but then you'd have just voted for me so I just let you go that day