Does any fanbase define itself as liking diva players over gritty players?

albionmoonlight · 03-22-2021, 02:55 PM

I was reading some fan reactions during this free agency season, and I noticed several fanbases, in response to a team signing a gritty blocking TE or a high-motor special teams guy, saying "We love guys like this" or "We are all about the blue collar guys" or things like that.

It seems natural for every fanbase to define itself as loving the gritty backup power forward who isn't afraid to bang or get dirty in the post. Or the special teams ace known for his suicidal runs down the field to make a shoestring tackle. And for each fanbase to somehow think of itself as unique for being into gritty backups and hustle players.

But is there any fanbase that does not think of itself like this? The Lakers are as star-studded as a franchise can be, but I remember how people there loved Kurt Rambis as much as anyone on the team. Maybe the Yankees?

Also, is this just an American thing, or is it universal? Do European soccer fans also love the gritty players more than the stars?

Thoughts?

CrimsonFox · 03-22-2021, 03:27 PM

Kurt Rambis is a god!

JPhillips · 03-22-2021, 03:34 PM

Cincy baseball fans generally prefer the less talented gritty guy over the flashy more talented guy. There was no better example than Chris Sabo vs. Eric Davis.

And, yes, race probably does have a lot to do with it.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-22-2021, 03:40 PM

I think you probably have to define "fanbase" to see those sorts of distinctions.

The preference for gritty guys seems to run strongest with the real diehards, the fans who know who does what along those lines.

The broader fanbase -- more than bandwagon but not watch-every-second-of-every-game fans -- might be more attuned to the flashier.

pantera · 03-22-2021, 04:15 PM

The Lakers definitely. Yes, Kurt Rambis, but he was an oddity there. Laker fans have historically wept Botox-laced tears down onto their silicone implants whenever they didn't have a major star to cheer when they arrived at their seats in the 2nd quarter each night.

The one other example might be the NY Yankees during the George Steinbrenner years. Their fans seemed to really enjoy the signings of the biggest names possible (Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, etc). I wonder -- were they that way during the 20s-50s when the Yankees were truly the YANKEES? I don't sense that their fans feel that way now post-2003.

I think of the Dallas Cowboys too, but that might be a reflection on Jerry Jones more than their fans.

ISiddiqui · 03-22-2021, 04:25 PM

Seems to me that any team with a lot of stars are going to love flashy players. But they will also like the gritty players doing the support roles. And any really successful team needs both. You could, say, look at the 1980s San Francisco 49ers and just see flashy players like Joe Montana and Jerry Rice but there were a ton of get in the mud gritty players as well (Ronnie Lott and Rice even encompass both descriptions).

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Qwikshot · 03-22-2021, 05:58 PM

Doesn't it depend on the sport?

Is James Harden gritty? or Kyrie?

I think the 90's Cowboys weren't more prima than gritty...

Gritty seems to me a buzzword for average guys who know it, so they do all the intangibles to keep up at the top level.

Coaches probably love these guys because they are coachable but they have a limit on their talent, they play to their role and that's it.

You have two types of divas: with or without the talent to back up their diva-ness. Some guys are good because they were better than everyone else at the prior levels but they aren't really the upper echelon of talent...then there are those guys who are amazingly good, know it, and flaunt it.

Butter · 03-22-2021, 06:02 PM

Miami franchises.

RainMaker · 03-22-2021, 07:47 PM

Think it depends on the position too. For my QB, I don't want a "gritty blue-collar guy". I want someone pulling up with a high-priced suit and a lambo. Someone who exudes confidence.

Swaggs · 03-22-2021, 07:51 PM

I think of the Miami, USC, and Florida St football powerhouses of the ‘90s and ‘00s like that, but I’m not sure their fans would own that. Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush seemed more like celebrities than football players and I think that (along with beachfront mansions) got USC a lot of recruits. With Miami, that ‘95 championship game seemed like the ultimate contrast of flashy Miami vs gritty Nebraska. Florida St had all those great skill players (Charlie Ward, Peter Warwick, Warrick Dunn) and flashy DBs (Deion, Terrell Buckley, Cromartie).

Vince, Pt. II · 03-22-2021, 09:26 PM

Hard for me to think of the 90s Cowboys as "gritty." That's probably a combination of my age making me discount the strength of that O-Line, focusing instead on Michael Irvin, Deion Sanders, and Troy Aikman, and my absolute disdain for them.

tarcone · 03-22-2021, 10:03 PM

Iowa: Gritty

Wrestlers must be very gritty and aggressive. See Spencer Lee winning a natty with a tor ACL

Basketball: Gritty, yet we have a bunch of soft players not named Garza. Weird dynamic.

Footbball: Gritty. We take low stars and turn them into hard nosed NFL players.

AlexB · 03-23-2021, 03:08 AM

It is difficult as even flair teams have dirty shits to back them up: first thoughts were Real Madrid and Barcelona, but Sergio Ramos, Busquets and Puyol are three of the most cynical players in recent times.

The best two fits I could think of were Paris St Germain and Spurs, but l think even for the most flamboyant teams, the fans like the gritty player that knits the team together

bob · 03-23-2021, 06:58 AM

I wasn't alive for this period, but would the Joe Namath era Jets count?

Vince, Pt. II · 03-23-2021, 03:02 PM

Answering the spirit of the original question, I think this is because the "gritty" players are more relatable / less out of reach for the normal everyday person. It's hard to convince yourself that you could have been Jerry Rice. It's easier to talk yourself into Hines Ward.

Vince, Pt. II · 03-23-2021, 03:02 PM

Dola - and this obviously undersells the pure talent that these "gritty" players obviously have.

albionmoonlight · 03-23-2021, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I think of the Miami, USC, and Florida St football powerhouses of the ‘90s and ‘00s like that, but I’m not sure their fans would own that

Out of all the examples given, this one rings the truest to me. Those were flashy teams, and I do get the sense that the fans adopted that.

The Bad Boys Miami teams are a particularly interesting example b/c their flash was tied up in a whole young-black-men-refusing-to-play-by-the-old-rules dynamic.

Their non-grittiness was part of a larger message that the team and fans adopted.

molson · 03-23-2021, 03:33 PM

As one of maybe 150 season ticket holders of the Idaho Horsemen of the American West Football Conference (indoor football), I want nothing but divas on the team.

03-22-2021, 03:34 PM	#3
JPhillips Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Newburgh, NY	Cincy baseball fans generally prefer the less talented gritty guy over the flashy more talented guy. There was no better example than Chris Sabo vs. Eric Davis. And, yes, race probably does have a lot to do with it. __________________ To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers

03-22-2021, 03:40 PM	#4
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	I think you probably have to define "fanbase" to see those sorts of distinctions. The preference for gritty guys seems to run strongest with the real diehards, the fans who know who does what along those lines. The broader fanbase -- more than bandwagon but not watch-every-second-of-every-game fans -- might be more attuned to the flashier. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-22-2021, 04:25 PM	#6
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Seems to me that any team with a lot of stars are going to love flashy players. But they will also like the gritty players doing the support roles. And any really successful team needs both. You could, say, look at the 1980s San Francisco 49ers and just see flashy players like Joe Montana and Jerry Rice but there were a ton of get in the mud gritty players as well (Ronnie Lott and Rice even encompass both descriptions). Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

03-22-2021, 05:58 PM	#7
Qwikshot Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: ...down the gravity well	Doesn't it depend on the sport? Is James Harden gritty? or Kyrie? I think the 90's Cowboys weren't more prima than gritty... Gritty seems to me a buzzword for average guys who know it, so they do all the intangibles to keep up at the top level. Coaches probably love these guys because they are coachable but they have a limit on their talent, they play to their role and that's it. You have two types of divas: with or without the talent to back up their diva-ness. Some guys are good because they were better than everyone else at the prior levels but they aren't really the upper echelon of talent...then there are those guys who are amazingly good, know it, and flaunt it. __________________ "General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams

03-22-2021, 06:02 PM	#8
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	Miami franchises. __________________ My listening habits

03-22-2021, 03:27 PM	#2
CrimsonFox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2009	Kurt Rambis is a god!

03-22-2021, 04:15 PM	#5
pantera n00b Join Date: Mar 2021	The Lakers definitely. Yes, Kurt Rambis, but he was an oddity there. Laker fans have historically wept Botox-laced tears down onto their silicone implants whenever they didn't have a major star to cheer when they arrived at their seats in the 2nd quarter each night. The one other example might be the NY Yankees during the George Steinbrenner years. Their fans seemed to really enjoy the signings of the biggest names possible (Reggie Jackson, Dave Winfield, etc). I wonder -- were they that way during the 20s-50s when the Yankees were truly the YANKEES? I don't sense that their fans feel that way now post-2003. I think of the Dallas Cowboys too, but that might be a reflection on Jerry Jones more than their fans.

03-22-2021, 07:47 PM	#9
RainMaker General Manager Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	Think it depends on the position too. For my QB, I don't want a "gritty blue-collar guy". I want someone pulling up with a high-priced suit and a lambo. Someone who exudes confidence.

03-22-2021, 07:51 PM	#10
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I think of the Miami, USC, and Florida St football powerhouses of the ‘90s and ‘00s like that, but I’m not sure their fans would own that. Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush seemed more like celebrities than football players and I think that (along with beachfront mansions) got USC a lot of recruits. With Miami, that ‘95 championship game seemed like the ultimate contrast of flashy Miami vs gritty Nebraska. Florida St had all those great skill players (Charlie Ward, Peter Warwick, Warrick Dunn) and flashy DBs (Deion, Terrell Buckley, Cromartie). __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

03-22-2021, 09:26 PM	#11
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	Hard for me to think of the 90s Cowboys as "gritty." That's probably a combination of my age making me discount the strength of that O-Line, focusing instead on Michael Irvin, Deion Sanders, and Troy Aikman, and my absolute disdain for them.

03-22-2021, 10:03 PM	#12
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	Iowa: Gritty Wrestlers must be very gritty and aggressive. See Spencer Lee winning a natty with a tor ACL Basketball: Gritty, yet we have a bunch of soft players not named Garza. Weird dynamic. Footbball: Gritty. We take low stars and turn them into hard nosed NFL players. __________________ Excuses are for wusses- Spencer Lee Punting is Winning- Tory Taylor The word is Fight! Fight! Fight! For Iowa FOFC 30 Dollar Challenge Champion-OOTP '15

03-23-2021, 03:08 AM	#13
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	It is difficult as even flair teams have dirty shits to back them up: first thoughts were Real Madrid and Barcelona, but Sergio Ramos, Busquets and Puyol are three of the most cynical players in recent times. The best two fits I could think of were Paris St Germain and Spurs, but l think even for the most flamboyant teams, the fans like the gritty player that knits the team together __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

03-23-2021, 06:58 AM	#14
bob College Starter Join Date: Oct 2004	I wasn't alive for this period, but would the Joe Namath era Jets count?

03-23-2021, 03:02 PM	#15
Vince, Pt. II Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Somewhere More Familiar	Answering the spirit of the original question, I think this is because the "gritty" players are more relatable / less out of reach for the normal everyday person. It's hard to convince yourself that you could have been Jerry Rice. It's easier to talk yourself into Hines Ward.

03-23-2021, 03:33 PM	#18
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	As one of maybe 150 season ticket holders of the Idaho Horsemen of the American West Football Conference (indoor football), I want nothing but divas on the team.

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