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Old 12-09-2018, 03:28 PM   #901
Thomkal
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Originally Posted by cuervo72 View Post
What in the [big] blue blazes transpired in Washington? I go to the store partway into the second and it's 7-0. It is 34-0 at the half??!


It's so bad Josh Johnson is in now at QB, and scores. He's clearly the answer.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:09 PM   #902
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WOW! What an ending to the NE-Miami game!
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:16 PM   #903
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The one time Belichick doesn't go for the jugular. Settles for a FG and lose by 1 on the miracle TD
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:24 PM   #904
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WOW! What an ending to the NE-Miami game!


I swear every team should be looking for a drug to give NE before every game that makes them think they are in Miami, because crazy stuff just happens to them there nearly every time. No way Miami should have won that game.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:24 PM   #905
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Putting Gronk out there like a hail mary was actually an option from that distance might have been worse than the Butler SB benching.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:35 PM   #906
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Putting Gronk out there like a hail mary was actually an option from that distance might have been worse than the Butler SB benching.

Yeah, just caught it. Gronk ended up being the last guy with a shot and showed he had no business on defense.

No idea why he would be on the field in that situation.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:35 PM   #907
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I was following the end of the game on my phone and didn't understand why they were playing for 3 there. Try to score the TD.
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Old 12-09-2018, 04:57 PM   #908
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Good Lord, this DET/ARI game is horrible. Surprise?
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:00 PM   #909
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Funny that Gronk was the last line of defense on a 69 yard TD.
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:19 PM   #910
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:21 PM   #911
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Good Lord, this DET/ARI game is horrible. Surprise?


Cards never lose to Detroit,,,sound familiar Green Bay?
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:23 PM   #912
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My reaction to that last Dolphins-Pats play.

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Old 12-09-2018, 05:34 PM   #913
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Longest play from scrimmage to win a game with no time left since the merger in 1970.
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Old 12-09-2018, 05:38 PM   #914
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Please just fire Vance Joseph. What an embarrassment. I knew winning the last 3 weeks was only going to result in a worse draft pick than Denver should get.
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:06 PM   #915
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Good Lord, this DET/ARI game is horrible. Surprise?

The official title of this Detroit-Arizona game is “Lions-Cardinals: An Exercise in Coaching Hire Regret.”
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Old 12-09-2018, 06:49 PM   #916
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Yeah, just caught it. Gronk ended up being the last guy with a shot and showed he had no business on defense.

No idea why he would be on the field in that situation.
Patriots always have 1 offensive player (usually Gronk, when he was hurt it was Josh Gordon) who's the designated jumper to knock down hail mary's, with all the defensive players coached to stay on the ground... But like Logan said a hail mary probably wasn't a realistic option there with Tannehill at QB. As much as you can blame him/the coaches on it, the multiple DB's who missed tackles also deserve blame :/

Oh well. Pretty brutal 5 minute stretch there from "hey, we might be in the driver's seat for the 1 seed & home field!" to basically zero chance, but it's still just a regular season game. Just going to have to win in Arrowhead unless the Chiefs lose the divisional game, but they certainly look less scary without Kareem Hunt (and they still have Andy Reid coaching them.)

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Funny that Gronk was the last line of defense on a 69 yard TD.
Shit, maybe he intentionally stumbled
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:17 PM   #917
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That was an absolutely brutal PI call on the Eagles, followed by an absolutely brutal PF call on Dallas. Glad the refs are making themselves known!
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:19 PM   #918
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The refs just have no clue what they're doing and nobody knows what the rules are. Joe Philbin challenged two "catches" in the first two minutes of the Packers-Falcons game and lost both. Neither one was a catch.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:23 PM   #919
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Let's just play fourth quarters from now on.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:29 PM   #920
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That was an absolutely brutal PI call on the Eagles, followed by an absolutely brutal PF call on Dallas. Glad the refs are making themselves known!

Both were horrible calls.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:31 PM   #921
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Flags, flags and more flags. The NFL has taken what would have been a really good game in Dallas and turned it into an absolute fucking farce.
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Old 12-09-2018, 07:37 PM   #922
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Mike Pereira sounds embarrassed every time they throw it to him for his take on another bad call.
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Old 12-09-2018, 08:44 PM   #923
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The official title of this Detroit-Arizona game is “Lions-Cardinals: An Exercise in Coaching Hire Regret.”


LOL
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Old 12-09-2018, 11:48 PM   #924
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Please just fire Vance Joseph. What an embarrassment. I knew winning the last 3 weeks was only going to result in a worse draft pick than Denver should get.

+1 .... I know it won't happen but they need to dump Elway as well as Musgrave, Woods and Joseph at the end of the season in that order! The locals here wanting to blame Keenum and he is not the problem.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:38 AM   #925
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Thank you Raiders for Khalil Mack.
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Old 12-10-2018, 02:20 AM   #926
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The refs just have no clue what they're doing and nobody knows what the rules are. Joe Philbin challenged two "catches" in the first two minutes of the Packers-Falcons game and lost both. Neither one was a catch.
The refs can be dumb, and were pretty terrible in the 4th quarter of Philly/Dallas, plus Green Bay won going away, but Joe Philbin challenging and losing both challenges in the first 1:23 shouldn't be ignored. Can't blame the refs for his idiocy.
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Old 12-10-2018, 08:37 AM   #927
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WOW! What an ending to the NE-Miami game!

Wow indeed!

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Old 12-10-2018, 09:05 AM   #928
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Back to the NE-MIA ending...forget about NE playing too conservatively on that last drive for a minute, but I'm wondering about the strategy to kick the FG there. Obviously doing so to put you up 5 is good in that now you're requiring more than a FG to beat you, but how much worth does that really have if the likelihood of your opponent even getting a FG try is pretty low?

4th and goal from the 4 with Brady and Gronk has to have a fairly good probability of a TD which wins you the game. If you fail, let's assume the same amount of time comes off the clock as the chip shot FG. You're then leaving Miami at its own 4 yard line (or maybe a bit worse) needing to get all the way to your own 40 or so yard line, in less than 16 seconds, with no timeouts, while also getting the 55+ yard FG off. And it's a rookie kicker with a career long of 50.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:19 AM   #929
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1st and goal from the 7. Obviously you're taking a risk putting the ball in the air, but they could have run a couple of WR screen passes or dump offs to the RBs that could have scored and still run clock.

I would have tried to score before 4th down and then given serious consideration to throwing for it on 4th. If Brady gets enough protection and sits in there, the chances that someone in the Dolphins secondary gets flagged for holding are probably pretty high. Has anyone not watched the NFL this year? Bail-out defensive penalties seem like 10-20% of all 3rd down conversions.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:43 AM   #930
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Good points. I think now that we're seeing teams go for it on 4th down more, the next change will be teams going for it on longer distances and using the passing game more. Would 4th and 6 from the 50 really be significantly harder for the Saints offense to pick up than 4th and 3? I don't know the numbers, and sample size would probably be an issue in getting a good sense of the likelihood of conversion, but my guess is the difference in the true odds of success across those scenarios are nowhere near the difference in how frequently offenses would try it.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:52 AM   #931
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Not enough sad New England shots
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:58 AM   #932
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I just think with all of the rules favoring offense, the equation on 4th downs (and end of game strategy in general) needs to be re-thought. Pittsburgh should have tied Oakland in a similar situation yesterday, too. All you need is a DPI (a rule I'd like to see changed to the college rule) or a couple of defensive holding calls to keep a game going and get you into FG or end zone shot range.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:05 AM   #933
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Thank you Raiders for Khalil Mack.

And for Amari Cooper.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:22 AM   #934
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I'm not saying justin Tucker could punt great, but I'm sure he could maybe be like the 20-50th best punter in the league. Eventually some coach will just decide that wasting 1 spot on a guy who should have very limited usage isn't worth it and teams will all laugh 15 years later when nobody has a punter.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:01 PM   #935
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If kickers practiced at it, some of them surely could be effective enough to make that cost/benefit analysis worth doing.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:34 PM   #936
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Listening to Kenyon Drake on LeBatard.

"Can you pinpoint the moment you knew you were going to score?"

"Yeah, literally when I saw him (Gronk)."

HA!
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:47 PM   #937
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I'm not saying justin Tucker could punt great, but I'm sure he could maybe be like the 20-50th best punter in the league. Eventually some coach will just decide that wasting 1 spot on a guy who should have very limited usage isn't worth it and teams will all laugh 15 years later when nobody has a punter.

Yes, CFL teams have been doing this for decades. The idea makes a lot of sense.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:56 PM   #938
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Patriots always have 1 offensive player (usually Gronk, when he was hurt it was Josh Gordon) who's the designated jumper to knock down hail mary's, with all the defensive players coached to stay on the ground... But like Logan said a hail mary probably wasn't a realistic option there with Tannehill at QB. As much as you can blame him/the coaches on it, the multiple DB's who missed tackles also deserve blame :/

Oh well. Pretty brutal 5 minute stretch there from "hey, we might be in the driver's seat for the 1 seed & home field!" to basically zero chance, but it's still just a regular season game. Just going to have to win in Arrowhead unless the Chiefs lose the divisional game, but they certainly look less scary without Kareem Hunt (and they still have Andy Reid coaching them.)

Shit, maybe he intentionally stumbled

Such a fascinating play, can't wait to watch the All-22. (Like you, I was more morbidly fascinated than upset by the loss).

Seems like everything started with the delayed first lateral, where the first Dolphin took a few steps forward before throwing it back. That seemed to paralyze the Patriots' defenders just long enough to where they weren't going to be in position and couldn't catch back up with the Dolphins setting things up downfield. The Dolphins never stopped moving and too many Patriots stopped and had to restart.

Belichick claimed that Gronk wasn't in there for a hail marry, but if they did the play where the ball goes 30-40 yards downfield first before the laterals start. I don't understand why an actual defensive player wouldn't be a better fit on a play like that, but, what do I know. Gronk would only be (marginally) useful if he happened to be right at where the first pass came down - which seems really unlikely when the Dolphins had the whole field to work with. And if the Dolphins used ANY of the rest of the field, Gronk would be a huge liability (which obviously was the case).

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Old 12-10-2018, 01:21 PM   #939
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I also think that Gronk of five years ago makes that play. He's not the physical freak he once was.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:22 PM   #940
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dola: Just thinking about it, what you really want in that situation is probably your best special teams guys. Guys who are used to pursuing and tackling in the open field.
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Old 12-10-2018, 01:43 PM   #941
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Such a fascinating play, can't wait to watch the All-22. (Like you, I was more morbidly fascinated than upset by the loss).

Seems like everything started with the delayed first lateral, where the first Dolphin took a few steps forward before throwing it back. That seemed to paralyze the Patriots' defenders just long enough to where they weren't going to be in position and couldn't catch back up with the Dolphins setting things up downfield. The Dolphins never stopped moving and too many Patriots stopped and had to restart.

There seemed to be a point when Drake had the ball where you can see at least a few of the defenders move a bit forward in trying to anticipate/guard against the next lateral and all that did was leave the enormous seam for him to run through.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:12 PM   #942
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Yeah, Stephon Gilmore stays back guarding against a pitch, it looks like. Once he moved back, that opened the lane. The OL who ran 60 yards down field and got the trap block was probably the biggest key to the whole thing.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:13 PM   #943
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You sense the Pats announcers are desperately trying to speak without swearing for the majority of this!

Patriots Radio Announcers React to Stunning Loss vs. Dolphins | NFL Highlights - YouTube
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:13 PM   #944
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Dola

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Old 12-10-2018, 03:13 PM   #945
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I haven't read (or even heard from or about) Bill Simmons in years, but apparently he crapped all over himself yesterday trying to make that play all about the first time it was ever successful, etc., and he rightly got called out for not knowing anything about sports outside of Boston (or the NBA, I guess).
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:38 PM   #946
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Simmons is one of those entertainment entities who had a big following who just love to bash him. He's always been more entertainment and casual sports observation than detailed sports analysis, but, it's a formula that works and has made him really popular. His weekly guess the lines podcast with Jimmy Kimmell's cousin is the only sports podcast I regularly listen to. But ya, Simmons "fans" meltdown on him after every podcast, nothing new there.

Edit: And I did read somewhere that this was the first NFL game-ending multiple lateral TD play since 2003 or something (The Steelers had one called back in 2013). The 2003 one was when the Saints kicker missed the extra point afterwards, so you actually have to go back sometime before that to find one that WON a game. The Music City Miracle doesn't technically count because it was only one lateral....And browsing a reddit thread about this, I'm not sure there's EVER actually been a NFL game-ending, game-winning, multiple lateral play, or not one that people have come up with yet.

Last edited by molson : 12-10-2018 at 03:47 PM.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:45 PM   #947
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Yeah, I think Simmons meant game ending play. That's why he referenced Friday Night Lights, since Coach Taylor's teams won on the last play of the game so many times. The Miami-San Diego 1981 play was at the end of the half and the Boise play just sent it to overtime.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:49 PM   #948
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Miami/Duke was just a couple of years ago, too.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:58 PM   #949
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Bill mentioned hook and ladder in his tweet. Miami-Duke, Cal-Stanford, Music City, etc. were not hook and ladders.
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Old 12-10-2018, 05:49 PM   #950
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Simmons is smart/savvy enough to play the Boston-homer troll card just enough. It keeps a certain segment of fans engaged with him through argument.
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