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Old 09-18-2018, 03:37 PM   #201
Arles
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It wasn't called. And while that was more of a hold than Taylor's that cost Green Bay a TD, the point was we are going to start seeing DL and LB pulling up as they hit the QB to avoid penalties. Which, I guess is exactly what the league wants..
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Old 09-18-2018, 04:11 PM   #202
Butter
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So Antonio Brown didn't show up for film study today.

I mean, eff the Steelers, but at the same time, I already am getting killed by having drafted Le'Veon Bell in fantasy, so this would be too much. Come back Tony, all is forgiven.
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Old 09-18-2018, 05:50 PM   #203
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I bet Bell sits out all 10 weeks. I would if I was thinking the same thing by not signing.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:04 PM   #204
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The weird thing with Bell is I don't think he's going to get the massive contract he thinks at the end of the season. How much guaranteed money will someone actually give a running back?

The Gurley extension seems like the best comparison. That was $45 million guaranteed. But I think Gurley is a year younger when that kicks in than Bell will be. And I think Gurley is just a better running back.

I could see Bell sitting if he was making $5 million a year or something, but he'd make $14 million this season. That's a lot of money guaranteed for a single season of football. Of course an injury could cost him money down the road, but there aren't that many that set your career back too much.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:59 PM   #205
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Yeah, I don't think so either. I just don't think there will be a team willing to put down that much of their salary for a guy in that position. I don't care if he is a wideout to or not. The Steelers are right not to give into his demands, and are right to make him pay by not signing his tender, and they had to know too, that he was going to do this. As for Bell, he has to do what he feels he has to do. As long as he's within his right regarding the players agreement, he can have at it. It's all about both sides playing the game. I totally understand where he is coming from. The team needed to move on from him anyway.
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Old 09-18-2018, 08:26 PM   #206
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Steelers have that season from hell thing going on. They’ll probably just stay the course
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Old 09-19-2018, 07:23 PM   #207
Carman Bulldog
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Originally Posted by NobodyHere View Post
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...t-compensation

Your analysis seems to be spot on whether you intended it or not.

Yeah, when I posted that I didn't realize that Gordon did not have to pass through waivers and is also an RFA at the end of the season. It feels like Gordon has been around forever. Even with his time off, I was shocked that he doesn't have enough accrued service.

I guess the moral is that maybe John Dorsey knows what he's doing.
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Old 09-20-2018, 02:08 AM   #208
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The weird thing with Bell is I don't think he's going to get the massive contract he thinks at the end of the season. How much guaranteed money will someone actually give a running back?

The Gurley extension seems like the best comparison. That was $45 million guaranteed. But I think Gurley is a year younger when that kicks in than Bell will be. And I think Gurley is just a better running back.

I could see Bell sitting if he was making $5 million a year or something, but he'd make $14 million this season. That's a lot of money guaranteed for a single season of football. Of course an injury could cost him money down the road, but there aren't that many that set your career back too much.
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Yeah, I don't think so either. I just don't think there will be a team willing to put down that much of their salary for a guy in that position. I don't care if he is a wideout to or not. The Steelers are right not to give into his demands, and are right to make him pay by not signing his tender, and they had to know too, that he was going to do this. As for Bell, he has to do what he feels he has to do. As long as he's within his right regarding the players agreement, he can have at it. It's all about both sides playing the game. I totally understand where he is coming from. The team needed to move on from him anyway.
I don't think Bell gets the elite RB + good WR contract he's asking for, or Pittsburgh is wrong for not dropping big guaranteed $$$ on a RB... but he'll get A long term contract if he ever enters FA & Pittsburgh seems to have little interest in giving him one, while simultaneously working him into the ground. I also wouldn't be shocked if there were certain promises or implications given from the Steelers side the first season Bell played under the franchise tag. (And I think we can all agree this is another failure of the NFLPA that a team can still franchise tag a guy multiple seasons in a row.)

RM do you really think there isn't a high risk of injury for an NFL RB that will significantly set back their career or what teams are willing to pay? Especially in 2018 where at least half the league has adopted the get cheap RB's & move on philosophy?
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Old 09-20-2018, 03:02 AM   #209
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Bell screwed his leverage up by reporting last year. I understand he didn't have much money earned in his career at that point. A good agent would have made reporting last year contingent upon not being franchised/even not being exclusive franchised again this year.

But i think Bell's agent is about as talented of an agent as Bell is as a rapper so they're both getting played for ineptitude.

I don't think he should report until after the trade deadline without some sort of massive financial concession. They're likely to run him into the ground again and/or attempt to trade him once he reports.

Ultimately the whole thing is his fault for multiple drug suspensions, otherwise he would have gotten a more than fair upper market deal before his 4th season.

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Old 09-20-2018, 03:34 AM   #210
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Bell screwed his leverage up by reporting last year. I understand he didn't have much money earned in his career at that point. A good agent would have made reporting last year contingent upon not being franchised/even not being exclusive franchised again this year.

But i think Bell's agent is about as talented of an agent as Bell is as a rapper so they're both getting played for ineptitude.

I don't think he should report until after the trade deadline without some sort of massive financial concession. They're likely to run him into the ground again and/or attempt to trade him once he reports.

Ultimately the whole thing is his fault for multiple drug suspensions, otherwise he would have gotten a more than fair upper market deal before his 4th season.
I don't know Bell's agent beyond seeing a tweet kerfuffle leading into week 1 that made me think he shouldn't say anything publicly, but it's still tough for me to tie this into to him. The pressure on Le'Veon to report last year was enormous - from the media, from his teammates, maybe even from himself if he still liked the organization. If he had kept holding out he would've been given labels that are hard to shake.

But this year outside his OL being dicks and that one viral Steelers fan interview, public opinion is at least neutral if not in his favor. I have him on my fantasy team, and I hope he comes back, but yeah I get it if he doesn't until week 11. That's a massive shift in public perception.

(Also, neither of us will ever know for sure, but I think the drug suspensions are an easy thing for the Steelers to point to, and they never intended to give him huge guaranteed $$$... certainly not what he's asking for!)
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Old 09-20-2018, 11:28 PM   #211
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With their defense, the Browns can be a playoff team as long as Mayfield is under center. He's gotta be the guy from here on out though. You can't be fucking around putting Tyrod back in there after the way he was playing prior to whatever injury he suffered. He was playing like he had a broken brain.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:47 AM   #212
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The Browns are guaranteed their best win percentage of the Hue Jackson era.
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:14 AM   #213
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Let's go Browns, strive for 5-5-6!
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Old 09-21-2018, 08:49 AM   #214
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Mayfield got away with a couple throws that should've been picked but damn did he look awesome on pretty much every other snap. I was a doubter but he impressed the hell out of me.
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Old 09-21-2018, 09:03 AM   #215
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Mayfield got away with a couple throws that should've been picked but damn did he look awesome on pretty much every other snap. I was a doubter but he impressed the hell out of me.

(1) Jury is still out, but I agree with you that he passed the eye test in his first game.

(2) I think that things like attitude are overrated. But Cleveland needed more than just a guy who could throw the ball. They need a leader who can shake them out of the 0-16 malaise.

In one game, he made Cleveland fun.
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Old 09-21-2018, 10:17 AM   #216
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Agree wholeheartedly on #2. That was something I didn't really get until post-draft but it became very clear quickly. Admittedly I don't know if the Browns had that in mind as part of the whole process or if they just fell into it.

As for #1, of course there's plenty more to come and he'll have growing pains but he's a couple tiers above where I thought he'd be at a best case scenario for probably his first 2-3 years in the league.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:00 AM   #217
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So as a long-suffering kinda-Browns-fan...

-The CLE drive just before halftime was the most electric drive for a non-game-winning FG I have ever seen, at any level... when Baker threw his first dart and hit his guy on the money, it was an audible gasp from along Lake Erie

-Okay, so there's plenty to like about his debut, but in context, this is a completely orgasmic experience for this franchise... it's the cliched "light at the end of the tunnel" and please forgive them/us for the rapturous response to what may turn out to be a glimmer of fool's gold

-I am ALL IN FOR THIS, personally
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:13 AM   #218
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Counterpoint, it was against the Jets.

But I agree that just winning a game was a pretty big hurdle on its own.
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Old 09-21-2018, 11:26 AM   #219
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The "Jets" part of that is that they were up 14-0 with all the momentum and a fan base booing the hell out of its QB, and they got crazy conservative both in going too much to the run and not really letting Darnold try and do much downfield. Plus some dumb penalties, especially by Johnson which only extended the drive temporarily but allowed the Browns to completely flip field position compared to where they should have punted from originally.

But the defense itself is pretty damn talented.
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Old 09-21-2018, 12:16 PM   #220
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(1) Jury is still out, but I agree with you that he passed the eye test in his first game.

(2) I think that things like attitude are overrated. But Cleveland needed more than just a guy who could throw the ball. They need a leader who can shake them out of the 0-16 malaise.

In one game, he made Cleveland fun.
Based off Hard Knocks I think Jarvis Landry deserves some credit too.
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The "Jets" part of that is that they were up 14-0 with all the momentum and a fan base booing the hell out of its QB, and they got crazy conservative both in going too much to the run and not really letting Darnold try and do much downfield. Plus some dumb penalties, especially by Johnson which only extended the drive temporarily but allowed the Browns to completely flip field position compared to where they should have punted from originally.

But the defense itself is pretty damn talented.
I still like Darnold overall and there's little excuse for the Jets to stay conservative once Cleveland was coming back, but I'm not sure he'll ever get above the Matthew Stafford/Jay Cutler level because I don't think you can coach his dumb turnovers out of him. That first pick last night was egregious - 1st & 10, sees an open guy in the middle of the field, gets an interior lineman pushed back into him & brings the ball down, then tries to throw it blindly to the same spot as those linemen are blocking his view? That's just an instinct thing & something he's always done at USC too.
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Old 09-21-2018, 01:35 PM   #221
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I dunno about Jarvis Landry - I can easily see why the Dolphins traded him based on his attitude: that could get toxic quickly

The rookie show got it right: he basically called everyone else bitches. It can only 'work' for so long...

He's still on my fantasy team though!
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Old 09-21-2018, 02:35 PM   #222
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So as a long-suffering kinda-Browns-fan...

-The CLE drive just before halftime was the most electric drive for a non-game-winning FG I have ever seen, at any level... when Baker threw his first dart and hit his guy on the money, it was an audible gasp from along Lake Erie

-Okay, so there's plenty to like about his debut, but in context, this is a completely orgasmic experience for this franchise... it's the cliched "light at the end of the tunnel" and please forgive them/us for the rapturous response to what may turn out to be a glimmer of fool's gold

-I am ALL IN FOR THIS, personally

I am in no way, shape, or form a Cleveland Browns fan - though I do have a close friend who is - but I agree almost wholeheartedly with this sentiment. I was all in on that drive before halftime in a meaningless Thursday Night Football game between two teams that have literally no impact on my favorite team. I am now excited to see how the Browns do, week in and week out.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:12 PM   #223
Carman Bulldog
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Realistically, Cleveland could easily be 3-0 at this point.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:44 PM   #224
weegeebored
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Parcells had it right: You are what you're record says you are. Not a Browns hater but come on -- a lot of teams can point to things that could change the outcome of a game if only this or that happened. The Bears shouldn't have lost to the Packers...but they did. If only Fuller had better hands, if only the defense didn't get tired in the 2nd half, if only... And both the Jets and Browns still have bad coaches so I wouldn't get overly excited.
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Old 09-21-2018, 03:49 PM   #225
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I dunno about Jarvis Landry - I can easily see why the Dolphins traded him based on his attitude: that could get toxic quickly

The rookie show got it right: he basically called everyone else bitches. It can only 'work' for so long...

He's still on my fantasy team though!
I agree that it can wear itself out, but for a team that needed to get it's ass kicked a little (and kept the supremely unmotivating Hue Jackson as HC) that jolt was necessary.

IDK why the Dolphins were so unenamored with him. All he did was catch 100 balls a season for his first four years. Contract looks big, but it's only $1m/y more on average than they're paying Danny Amendola & Albert Wilson... And I'd take Landry & a street FA in a heartbeat over those two.

Plus for a non-QB he throws a heck of a tight spiral & has some nice touch on his throws!
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:30 PM   #226
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I agree with you on the production - Landry is on the back of one of only two team jerseys I have ever bought (Zach Thomas if you're interested for the other)

Very very talented, but a bit of a prick, and in a team sport that can be a bigger factor.
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Old 09-21-2018, 04:50 PM   #227
albionmoonlight
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I was all in on that drive before halftime in a meaningless Thursday Night Football game between two teams that have literally no impact on my favorite team.

THAT was what I was trying to get at. I cannot remember the last time that I was that . . . into a non-playoff game that had no bearing on one of "my" teams.

People at work today (none of whom are Browns fans) were talking about it.
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Old 09-21-2018, 05:00 PM   #228
stevew
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I really dig the brown on brown look they sported.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:55 AM   #229
stevew
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I really wanna see a QB just get lit up one time on a philly special type play.
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:34 PM   #230
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Pre-order your Josh Allen HOF tickets now
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Old 09-23-2018, 02:31 PM   #231
NobodyHere
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Well the refs just gifted the Redskins a TD.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:26 PM   #232
cuervo72
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I'm really not sure if you're allowed to sack a QB anymore.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:01 PM   #233
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Yeah, if the NFL doesn't get on top of this "sacking the QB is now a penalty" thing, they are going to lose fans in droves. Absolutely ridiculous. There's no way to sack a QB on a free run at the QB unless you just stop and try to push him to the ground really hard. If you are moving forward, there's no way to tackle the QB without taking him to the ground. And, like, ya know, physics takes over from there.

Also - the fact that Buffalo destroyed Minnesota after looking like they might go 0-16 makes Cleveland's commitment to sucking week after week for the past several years pretty admirable. I mean, once in a while you have one of those games where everything goes right, even if you suck. The Browns managed to avoid such luck for multiple years.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:03 PM   #234
kingfc22
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Possible torn ACL for Jimmy G on a play where there was no need to take a hit.

Might as well burn my tix for the rest of the year if he ends up on IR.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:05 PM   #235
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#Trushitsky. The second coming of Rex Grossman without the ability to throw the deep ball. He's awful. Pace's record with 1st rounders blows the big one.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:12 PM   #236
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Possible torn ACL for Jimmy G on a play where there was no need to take a hit.

Might as well burn my tix for the rest of the year if he ends up on IR.


Yep saw that. Things were beginning to look brighter for SF too.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:32 PM   #237
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Yeah, if the NFL doesn't get on top of this "sacking the QB is now a penalty" thing, they are going to lose fans in droves. Absolutely ridiculous. There's no way to sack a QB on a free run at the QB unless you just stop and try to push him to the ground really hard. If you are moving forward, there's no way to tackle the QB without taking him to the ground. And, like, ya know, physics takes over from there.

I'm about done with it myself. This is the 2nd week in a row that Clay Matthews was called for tackling the QB exactly as he's supposed to. They said he landed on the QB too hard. How are you supposed to tackle? They just need to make it 2 hand touch on the QB if that's what they want. If you touch him with 2 hands in the pocket he's sacked.
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Old 09-23-2018, 05:43 PM   #238
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I'm about done with it myself. This is the 2nd week in a row that Clay Matthews was called for tackling the QB exactly as he's supposed to. They said he landed on the QB too hard. How are you supposed to tackle? They just need to make it 2 hand touch on the QB if that's what they want. If you touch him with 2 hands in the pocket he's sacked.


It really is the end of football as we know it, and I don't think the new football will work as a replacement.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:28 PM   #239
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It really is the end of football as we know it, and I don't think the new football will work as a replacement.

Landed with most of his weight on the QB is the explanation. I guess it’s a penalty to sack a quarterback and land with “all or most of your weight” on him. I’m not sure how you avoid that in many situations, especially as a speed rusher.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:33 PM   #240
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I'm about done with it myself. This is the 2nd week in a row that Clay Matthews was called for tackling the QB exactly as he's supposed to. They said he landed on the QB too hard. How are you supposed to tackle? They just need to make it 2 hand touch on the QB if that's what they want. If you touch him with 2 hands in the pocket he's sacked.

The NFL is really quite in a bind it seems. There's several loud voices (and lawsuits) clamoring to make the game safer. Yet there's also a crowd who wants the game to stay the same. There's also probably some idiots who think you can have both.
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:48 PM   #241
bronconick
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Matthews might be boned because he's the "example" for the NFL. Probably end up with a dozen calls this year.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:03 PM   #242
Thomkal
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Well my beloved Cards looked good for a quarter or so, and then returned to form. A bit surprised they put Rosen in late in the game when the Bears went ahead. Wasn't like Bradford was moving the offense though.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:14 PM   #243
PilotMan
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The NFL is really quite in a bind it seems. There's several loud voices (and lawsuits) clamoring to make the game safer. Yet there's also a crowd who wants the game to stay the same. There's also probably some idiots who think you can have both.


But didn't we see this coming a long time ago? After the medical information on brain injuries and the retirees lawsuits went through, didn't we know all along that it was going to completely change everything?
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:17 PM   #244
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Pretty sure Mack's WAR would be 3 right now and the rest of the bears are worth a total of -1 WAR.
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:27 PM   #245
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The NFL is really quite in a bind it seems. There's several loud voices (and lawsuits) clamoring to make the game safer. Yet there's also a crowd who wants the game to stay the same. There's also probably some idiots who think you can have both.
I agree that's true with head injuries, but this is wildly different. It's solely to protect QB's because Matthews' teammate got his collarbone broken on a clean hit last season.

I know the NFL did do something in that vein after Brady's ACL injury as well, but that wasn't really a common way to sack a quarterback. This just makes it physically impossible and actually probably raises the injury risk for the defender if they start trying to contort their body into unnatural positions.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:49 PM   #246
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I agree that's true with head injuries, but this is wildly different. It's solely to protect QB's because Matthews' teammate got his collarbone broken on a clean hit last season.

I know the NFL did do something in that vein after Brady's ACL injury as well, but that wasn't really a common way to sack a quarterback. This just makes it physically impossible and actually probably raises the injury risk for the defender if they start trying to contort their body into unnatural positions.

Agree! Them two calls against Clay were ridiculous over the past couple of week.

Not that it really matter because the Vikings stayed in the locker room today but every single time Allen got taken down hard I kept thinking it was going to be a flag. Its just sort of hard/frustrating to watch right now. If the quarterback leaves the pocket teams should be able to hit them as they can easily become a runner. I can understand easing up a bit on them while in the pocket but they are flagging perfect form tackles right now and thats not fair to the defense. Ill never say this again but I feel bad for Clay Mathews right now.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:55 PM   #247
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Pretty sure Mack's WAR would be 3 right now and the rest of the bears are worth a total of -1 WAR.

They're reminding me of the Bears 2001 season. Went 13-3 with spectacular luck, pretty good defense, and a combination of Jim Miller and Shane Matthews at QB. Then the playoffs hit and they got obliterated.

I point out that season because outside of Mack going batshit insane, even the defense feels more lucky than great.

Last edited by Coffee Warlord : 09-23-2018 at 09:56 PM.
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Old 09-23-2018, 09:56 PM   #248
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I think that it speaks to the Pats' greatness that I feel as confident that they will win down by 10 in the second half as I would if they were up by 10.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:07 PM   #249
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I think that it speaks to the Pats' greatness that I feel as confident that they will win down by 10 in the second half as I would if they were up by 10.

I had a similar feeling. I feel as confident that the Lions will lose whether they're up by 10 or down by 10 at halftime
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:50 PM   #250
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Matthews was screwed. That's the kind of play the NFL and fans used to live off of each week. If guys can't do that now, just pack it up. What's the point of even playing defense?
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