(Girls Softball) Coach has pitcher toss one at the ump

[MacroGuru]

Yeah, just caught this little nugget. The coach is classless for following it and the girls are in HS, and should know better than to listen to this. Pitcher, Catcher and Coach get tossed then the game is called....

[jeff061]

haha, that catcher was just so subtle.

[Logan]

Listening to the background audio, I caught a "okay you proved your point" after that walk so I'm wondering what was going on beyond just bad calls. Obviously doesn't excuse what was done.

Although I'd be lying if I said a catcher and I didn't do something similar a couple times in my little league days. But I wasn't aiming at the ump's head (nice accuracy btw) and we were a little less obvious.

[cartman]

Are they playing at Fenway?

[molson]

Does a high school softball ump even get paid? These people are saints to deal with those lunatics.

I'll never understand it. Even if you think the ump missed the call, why is that so damn personally offense to people? Including people on this message board? Why does it hurt you emotionally in a way that say, your star player making a mistake doesn't?

[DaddyTorgo]

That's gotta be somewhere in Red Sox country given the design of the park.

Coach/pitcher/catcher should all be brought up on assault charges. This is fucking ridiculous.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by molson

Does a high school softball ump even get paid? These people are saints to deal with those lunatics.

I'll never understand it. Even if you think the ump missed the call, why is that so damn personally offense to people? Including people on this message board? Why does it hurt you emotionally in a way that say, your star player making a mistake doesn't?

In PA umps gets about $60 a game. It's part of the job to understand that players and coaches are allowed to make mistakes, however, when you do (officials) you are held to a different standard. Fair or unfair...that's the way that profession operates.

So with that being said, situations like this one, and dealing with unruly parents or coaches is a main reason why there is a shortage of officials. Which means you have less of a talent pool to pick from...which means more missed calls...just a snow ball affect.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by molson

Does a high school softball ump even get paid? These people are saints to deal with those lunatics.

I'll never understand it. Even if you think the ump missed the call, why is that so damn personally offense to people? Including people on this message board? Why does it hurt you emotionally in a way that say, your star player making a mistake doesn't?

I did fast pitch softball for about 12 years. You get paid around $40/game for HS in the KC area and around $30/game for competition tournament games during the summer.

I was someone who had a good reputation and only threw out two people in 12 years. Judging from that video and that the bases were loaded and they walked in a run, I'm guessing they probably had an issue with his strike zone. I'm impressed with how calmly that ump handled the situation.

[Scarecrow]

This was actually an 18u Showcase tournament held at Big League Dreams Sports Complex in West Covina, CA


I have watched the video of the complete game. Inning went:

- Base hit to left
- Error
- Base hit to Right
- Double
- Change in pitchers and the one coming in is all over the place. Catcher and umpire are having a good discussion. Nothing looks wrong.
- Next hitter walks. One pitch borderline and the rest no question were balls.
- Next batter walks. The catcher pulls an outside ball back over the plate but it was a ball.

Start of above video
- Next batter walks with one borderline call. The Black team (California Cruisers) had that same pitched called a ball when they were hitting last inning.
- Coaches visit to mound
- Hit the Umpire
- Catcher, Pitcher, and Coach ejected. Game cancelled with Minor's Gold declared the winner.

[MJ4H]

Coach: fired on the spot. If he makes it back to the school with a job, administrators that didn't fire him also fired on the spot. That simple.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Coach: fired on the spot. If he makes it back to the school with a job, administrators that didn't fire him also fired on the spot. That simple.

I think that might be far enough outside the scope of the game to where criminal charges might be warranted (for him). Nothing super serious, but maybe a misdemeanor battery to let future employers know what kind of person they're dealing with, a day in jail, and 40 hours community service to work out how not to be a raging asshole.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Logan

Listening to the background audio, I caught a "okay you proved your point" after that walk so I'm wondering what was going on beyond just bad calls. Obviously doesn't excuse what was done.

Something was going on before this video - the walk brings in a run, I'd love to see the whole inning.

[Scarecrow]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Something was going on before this video - the walk brings in a run, I'd love to see the whole inning.

MG vs Cal Cruisers Mel - 10/5/13 - YouTube

(inning starts at the 40:00 mark)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

Although I'd be lying if I said a catcher and I didn't do something similar a couple times in my little league days.

This was pretty much the first thing I thought of ... but subtlety (or at least plausible denial) is key.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

Does a high school softball ump even get paid?

fwiw, regular season varsity level pay in Georgia is $58/single game (or $49/game for each game in a doubleheader). It's a little less for JV games, a little more for state tournament play.

The highest paid officials for any sport here? To my surprise it's cheerleading ... $12 per team for 12-20 meets (12 is the minimum for a regular season competition), so anywhere from $144-$240 per event.

Wrestling has a multiplier effect because of tri/quad matches, somebody working them all would get about $216 for the whole event.

Football is among the highest, $96 per game.

Lowest paid? Swimming judges ($45/meet), and gymnastics judges ($48/match)

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

I think that might be far enough outside the scope of the game to where criminal charges might be warranted (for him). Nothing super serious, but maybe a misdemeanor battery to let future employers know what kind of person they're dealing with, a day in jail, and 40 hours community service to work out how not to be a raging asshole.

Why not for the kids too? They participated, and they're certainly at an age where they should know better. Not like they're 10 or anything.

[MacroGuru]

The reason this popped up on my radar, the Cougar faithful are chastising Utah over the pitcher. She has accepted and will be playing at Utah for her college career.

For me, I am trying to decide this upcoming year if I want to get my Football Ref Certification here in NY or get back into coaching. One pays, the other one doesn't.

But it's boiling down to how do I want to deal with parents and/or coaches.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Why not for the kids too? They participated, and they're certainly at an age where they should know better. Not like they're 10 or anything.

I don't find them quite as responsible on a criminal level because they're following orders from an adult with supervisory authority. She should probably be suspended from playing softball though. For them, this can still be a learning experience, for him, he needs the mark on his record so he's not in a position where he's teaching or coaching children in the future

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

The reason this popped up on my radar, the Cougar faithful are chastising Utah over the pitcher. She has accepted and will be playing at Utah for her college career.

For me, I am trying to decide this upcoming year if I want to get my Football Ref Certification here in NY or get back into coaching. One pays, the other one doesn't.

But it's boiling down to how do I want to deal with parents and/or coaches.

Coach!! Then you only have to deal with Parents and then only yours, instead of both teams.

[molson]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

The reason this popped up on my radar, the Cougar faithful are chastising Utah over the pitcher. She has accepted and will be playing at Utah for her college career.

For me, I am trying to decide this upcoming year if I want to get my Football Ref Certification here in NY or get back into coaching. One pays, the other one doesn't.

But it's boiling down to how do I want to deal with parents and/or coaches.

I would suggest a less painful alternative like repeatedly jabbing your eyeball with something sharp.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by MacroGuru

The reason this popped up on my radar, the Cougar faithful are chastising Utah over the pitcher. She has accepted and will be playing at Utah for her college career.

Honestly if I was going to have her come to my school to play I would have cut her scholarship the moment this came out, character counts and doing something like that, regardless of what your coach tells you is classless.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Honestly if I was going to have her come to my school to play I would have cut her scholarship the moment this came out, character counts and doing something like that, regardless of what your coach tells you is classless.

Must be nice to have never done anything questionable when you were 17.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Must be nice to have never done anything questionable when you were 17.

Questionable? If this is what passes as only questionable nowadays I fear our future.

If I had ever been caught doing something this stupid and potentially dangerous I would accepted what I had coming.

This action regardless if a "coach" told you to do it could have potentially killed the umpire. Doing something that could be considered illegal just because an adult tells you to would seriously concern me if I was a school interested in her. It's the same as if she purposely hit another player in the head with a pitch. She's got to be nearly 17 years old and she should be smart enough to understand being responsible for her actions.

[Lathum]

and what if the coach told her she was off the team if she didn't do it?

Give me a break. To say the girls future should be tanked because she did something stupid and reckless is being absurdly holier than thou.

Most 17 year olds do stupid stuff that can get people killed, most just don't do it so publicly.

[chadritt]

On the other hand her future coach now knows shell do whatever she's told, it could help her.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and what if the coach told her she was off the team if she didn't do it?

Give me a break. To say the girls future should be tanked because she did something stupid and reckless is being absurdly holier than thou.

Most 17 year olds do stupid stuff that can get people killed, most just don't do it so publicly.

Your right these kids should just do whatever the fuck they want, who cares what they do, I mean it doesn't matter as long as the team wins games.

Let's look at this another way, if the players (P&C) did this all on their own should they still be on the team?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Your right these kids should just do whatever the fuck they want, who cares what they do, I mean it doesn't matter as long as the team wins games.

Let's look at this another way, if the players (P&C) did this all on their own should they still be on the team?

I would say yes with a stiff punishment.

People are so quick to want to hand out the stiffest penalty without consideration to the fact these are young kids who lack the capacity to make the right decisions at times.

Honest question Dan, did you really NEVER do anything when you were 17 that was stupid or reckless? And thats not even factoring in she was TOLD to do it.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Scarecrow

MG vs Cal Cruisers Mel - 10/5/13 - YouTube

(inning starts at the 40:00 mark)

Thanks for this. It was a new pitcher, looks like the fans of the OTHER team were starting to get on the ump first (the one guy who is maybe recording and has no clue on the rules starts yelling "BALL!" shortly before this), but at the 52 minute mark there is a long discussion between the catcher and ump while they get a new pitcher going. Something unusual going on.

[tarcone]

I didnt see anything out of the ordinary. The catcher did a good job of framing pitches, There were strikes called that could have been balls.
But I didnt see anything that called for a coach telling the pitcher and catcher hitting the ump.
Strange.

[Illini Boy]

It brings up a good question, say they throw at the head of an opponent instead of an ump, same reaction or different?

[MizzouRah]

I coach and ref youth soccer and this was my first season reffing.. I can't believe all I've had to deal with in just one season.

Coaches saying I'm the worst ref and other coaches saying I'm the best ref.. haha.. there are kids who don't even want to ref the middle because they fear the coaches and parents.

I've only ejected one parent and gave many first time warnings to coaches. You need a thick skin, that's for sure and if some kid was coached to kick a soccer ball at my face, I'd red card him, kick out the coaches and then call the game. Well done by this ref and his crew!

I get paid $28 to run a middle and $14 to run a line. I enjoy it though and I've learned a ton in just one season.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I would say yes with a stiff punishment.

People are so quick to want to hand out the stiffest penalty without consideration to the fact these are young kids who lack the capacity to make the right decisions at times.

Honest question Dan, did you really NEVER do anything when you were 17 that was stupid or reckless? And thats not even factoring in she was TOLD to do it.

Did I say I never did anything stupid? Honestly I rarely do much of anything nor did I ever do anything reckless because I respect my life enough to try and not put myself in purposeful danger.

As I said it's about taking responsibility for ones own actions. These aren't children, they are very close to adults they know the difference between wrong and right and should be held accountable for their actions.

[RainMaker]

I used to ref basketball and ump baseball in my early 20's. Used all the money toward paying off my school loans. Was a nice part-time gig for the weekends.

Agree that the talent pool is dramatically diminished because of assholes. Had a lot of really good people I worked with who just grew tired of the constant bullshit. I didn't mind taking a little shit on a missed call, but the parents who rag on you when you are making the right calls just because they feel entitled to getting every call gets draining. You have to have a thick skin and just not give a shit what people think.

Parents were always worse than kids. I actually threw out a lot of them. Just didn't have much patience after awhile.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by DanGarion

Did I say I never did anything stupid? Honestly I rarely do much of anything nor did I ever do anything reckless because I respect my life enough to try and not put myself in purposeful danger.

As I said it's about taking responsibility for ones own actions. These aren't children, they are very close to adults they know the difference between wrong and right and should be held accountable for their actions.

Lets just call it stupid and leave it at that. These coaches you are trained to respect and listen to. You may not agree with everything but you still do it. The girl was put in a very difficult position.

I am just thinking back to when I was 17 and if my coach(whom I respected a lot) had told me to do something like this(he never would) I think I would have done it figuring he knew better than I.

[RainMaker]

My only semi-bad story was in a travelling league and some kid was demonstrative each time I called a ball when he was pitching. These weren't even close half the time, he just for some reason felt every pitch was a strike and he'd pout aggressively after each call. So after one pitch he threw his glove down and I walked out to the mound and told him the next time he does something like that he will be ejected.

The parents threw a fit after the inning and I threw them both out. How dare I tell their precious little angel that he couldn't do whatever he wanted out there. They got nasty and I think yelled some names as they went to the parking lot. Total white trash. I should have reported it but it was like the last weekend of the year and I knew I wasn't going to be doing it again.

Anyways, I ran into the guy at a Lowes like a month later. When you ump the same leagues you tend to remember the same faces and they know who almost all the regular umps are. Went up to him and asked him if he still had a fucking problem. Guy was completely flustered. At the time I was like 24, in really good shape and he was some short stocky fat shit. He pretended he didn't know who I was and I called him a pussy and left. Yes it's something a dumb 24 year old does but it felt good. Maybe my only tough guy moment in my entire life.

I don't recommend doing that though if you are getting into officiating or living in a state where people carry guns.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Lets just call it stupid and leave it at that. These coaches you are trained to respect and listen to. You may not agree with everything but you still do it. The girl was put in a very difficult position.

I am just thinking back to when I was 17 and if my coach(whom I respected a lot) had told me to do something like this(he never would) I think I would have done it figuring he knew better than I.

But you are also trained to respect the officials of the game...

Look I get why it happened but that doesn't give her a free pass. And we wonder why college and professional athletes think they can get away with just about anything...

Then again I probably would have wanted to kick the coaches ass if he had told my daughter to do this. And I feel I will have taught my daughter enough about common sense as respect to not do something like this.

[RainMaker]

By the way, if anyone is looking to get into it, baseball is the way to go. I would get $55 for working the plate and $40 for working the field a game. They are usually just 2 hours long.

But here's where it's great, you can work like 3-4 games straight on a weekend at the same field. I'd usually do plate for 2 and finish in the field (they had a rule you couldn't man the plate more than twice a day). So I'd do the 12, 2:30, and 5 games on a Saturday and head on home having made $150. Plus you're outdoors in the Summer and can get a nice tan.

Like I said, it was a great way to pay down school loans. Being able to pay down a few grand in principal over the summer on those bad boys helped a lot. I wish I had gotten into it earlier when I was a Sophomore in college.