Werewolf LXXV - Rise of the Great Old Ones -Students Win!!!!

[Mrs. Schmidty]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Question for the people who didn't explore the PurdueBrad vs EagleFan option for today - did you think that both were villagers? That there was better information available with other candidates?

All I have to go on really today is my gut since I don't know how to really read ya'll yet. I am confident still in my vote for Chief. I'm open to other ideas as well, but didn't see a reason to move my vote.

[claphamsa]

chief got me crap!

[claphamsa]

go stoodents!

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Question for the people who didn't explore the PurdueBrad vs EagleFan option for today - did you think that both were villagers? That there was better information available with other candidates?

Other than the wolves or the seer, I'm not sure how someone could feel overwhelmingly convinced about the guilt/innocence of these guys but I would be interested in hearing impressions. I've made my impressions on PB/EF pretty clear today, I think.

I couldn't have said it better myself.. but I'm not giving you a pass here Hoops. You fully had the chance to help press this issue and chose not to based on your gut. So now we have gone two days and still have no better guess on where to go than we did to start the game. Until we can start figuring out what has been going on behind the scenes, we will continue to stumble around blindly.

Here is to hoping that night results are kinder for us.

[Telle]

I think PurdueBrad and EagleFan are more likely to be villagers than wolves.

I'm more curious now about the people who had votes on low-vote-getters.

[EagleFan]

Not exactly a great result. Maybe we'll get a block tonight. Going to sign off for a while since we don;t know when the night results will be up.

Damn!!! Just realized what time it is, I'll have to wait on getting The Show until tomorrow I guess. Not enough time to get to the store.

[hoopsguy]

Alan, I accept any criticisms that come my way for not moving my vote when I had the chance at 8:15. That said, I already offered that I would have moved it to Clap - which would have been wrong.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Alan, I accept any criticisms that come my way for not moving my vote when I had the chance at 8:15. That said, I already offered that I would have moved it to Clap - which would have been wrong.

How can you criticize others not trying to get the information out of day 1 if you choose to not to either? That is what my comment is in regards to moreso than where you put your vote. I agree with your comment as I have been saying we need to understand day 1 better all weekend, but you just seem to be a bit hypocritical about it.

[hoopsguy]

I don't see it that way. I put my vote on the person from D1 that I thought was the "most likely wolf". Vote was 4-4-4-2 and I was going to be unavailable for the last 45 minutes. It seemed very within the realm of possibility that people would still put votes on PB if he had two, but much less likely if he had one vote and we now had a 5-4-4 scenario.

I'm not trying to hammer anyone about their vote, but I am asking the question "what was more compelling for the other candidates". I don't see this as inconsistent.

[hoopsguy]

The option I had was to put my vote on EagleFan - that would have been more likely to help me learn about D1. I get that. If EagleFan ends up being a wolf then I'm going to look exceedingly bad for not doing this. Also understood and accepted.

I didn't think it was the right call at the time. I still don't (and I have zero inside information on this), but pursuing EF makes more sense to me as a thought process than a vote for either Chief Rum or Clap today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

The option I had was to put my vote on EagleFan - that would have been more likely to help me learn about D1. I get that. If EagleFan ends up being a wolf then I'm going to look exceedingly bad for not doing this. Also understood and accepted.

I didn't think it was the right call at the time. I still don't (and I have zero inside information on this), but pursuing EF makes more sense to me as a thought process than a vote for either Chief Rum or Clap today.

I still have yet to understand at all the reasoning behind the Chief vote. Maybe I overvalue his analysis in these games compared to other people, but he is someone that I hope is on my side each game, and at least until I have proof or even a gut feeling the other way, I give him some room to work. Same thing I say about you or a few others that play the game in a logical/analytical approach.

I could see some of the reasons why people voted for Claphamsa, so don't fault those voters quite as much. I do think it was a bit shortsighted or based on too much emotion rather than a path of trying to narrow down future options for lynch. I think there is a little we can learn about Claphamsa, and I feel with him turning up good makes me feel even a bit more comfortable about PurdueBrad at this point.

That of course doesn't really change my direction or my gut feeling for tommorrow as of now though. I still think we need to figure out day 1 votes.

[hoopsguy]

I agree on Clap = good helping make a better case for PB.

If we are giving Chief room to work, I'm hoping he will offer his impressions on today. For starters, what he makes of the run on him today and why he kept his vote on Clap down the stretch rather than switching to EF. Based on his posts, he seemed to understand the reasons for wanting to look at D1 candidates. I would expect him to be able to put aside a "he voted for me!" argument more often than not on D2.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

chief got me crap!

You got yourself. If you had actually come up with a reason or worked harder to find an actual wolf, maybe we would have caught that wolf instead of wasting a day on you and me. Congratulations.

[PurdueBrad]

Thanks to Path, Hoops in particular for the "pick your head up" talk. I'm back and frankly, a couple days off wasn't so bad. I saw that Alan referred to my RendeR vote as a throw-away but it was the first one out there so I don't think it was.

I'm the physics major, simple (well, not so simple) but that's my role. If you still think I'm bad, go ahead and make the push. I've caught up but want to re-read a couple comments and see where I want to go from there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

How can you criticize others not trying to get the information out of day 1 if you choose to not to either? That is what my comment is in regards to moreso than where you put your vote. I agree with your comment as I have been saying we need to understand day 1 better all weekend, but you just seem to be a bit hypocritical about it.

This is more like it. hoops and Alan should always be gunning after each other. All is right with the world.

[hoopsguy]

If we are both left around for long enough, it will happen. Regardless of sides.

[hoopsguy]

Welcome back, PB. I would be interested in your thoughts on the past couple of days as well. From your villager perspective, knowing that you and McCollins were both villagers, do you believe that EF is a wolf?

Based on that answer, how do you interpret the last two days?

[Alan T]

I'm not sure why people are eager to see Hoops and I fight. It really isn't something that I set out to do each game that I play with him. I personally think he is an excellent player regardless of which side he is on, which is why he scares me to death until I feel more comfortable about his role in this game.

Most of our past distrust probably stems from him and I being on opposite sides for something like our first 8 games we played together, and then when we finally were on the same side I probably had the worst game I've ever played, leading him to not wanting to be on the same side as me any more.

I don't by any means have Hoops as one of my top suspects in this game right now, I just would like to understand why he made some moves in this game a bit better. I have a huge need to try to feel trust for Hoops if possible, and until I can do so he makes me nervous. By no means do I think or want him to be an early lynch choice though ever unless I have some reason for it (proof or gut or otherwise)

[hoopsguy]

Alan, that "worst game you ever played" is far enough in the past that I don't sweat it much at all.

That said, I do worry about us dominating conversation and providing cover for the remaining players. I intentionally took some time away from the thread over the weekend to attempt to avoid that phenomenon. I wasn't all that pleased with the results ... does that make me a WW control freak?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

I agree on Clap = good helping make a better case for PB.

If we are giving Chief room to work, I'm hoping he will offer his impressions on today. For starters, what he makes of the run on him today and why he kept his vote on Clap down the stretch rather than switching to EF. Based on his posts, he seemed to understand the reasons for wanting to look at D1 candidates. I would expect him to be able to put aside a "he voted for me!" argument more often than not on D2.

I actually talked a little about this before. I felt clap's move was the most suspicious move made, and I viewed that as an indictment on both clap and EF. For me, at that point, it made little difference which was lynched, but clap was gunning after me, which I knew to be a wrong move. So I decided he was the more dangerous wolf now, and that EF would be the one we need to look at tomorrow, or maybe our seer can scan him tonight.

Of course, clap turned out to be a misguided villager, so this line of thinking is rather poor now. I'll take whatever flak for that I deserve. But that's what I was thinking when I put that vote up. I mean, clap's reasoning for voting me was virtually nothing, so as to be like a driveby. That and being a second vote pinged my wolfdar strongly, above and beyond the fact that I was the target.

As for the other voters on me, I gave Mrs. Schmidty the new player's benefit of the doubt, but she's made some suspicious moves that have to be looked at at some point. She isn't first on my list, but she's climbing.

Render also had a rather trumped up vote on me, not really giving much of a reason. In fact, that's really odd. Just about all of them had some unfounded reason or none at all. Hard to really defend yourself against that.

EF voted for me as a revenge vote and for self-preservation and switched off of me for self-preservation. In and of themselves, I don't think those votes say as much about his allegiance as the run to save him, or the Day 1 events.

In fact, clap's studentness and EF's switch if anything suggests further that we need to go back to exploring him. Knowing his allegiance for sure will help us tremendously in understanding both of these lynches I think.

As for the run on me, if EF is a wolf, I think it was wolf-motivated. Just fortunately for the wolves, it was a student that took up the mantle so strongly (clap). So I would look at Mrs. Schmidty and Render then. But I would look at EF first.

[PurdueBrad]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Welcome back, PB. I would be interested in your thoughts on the past couple of days as well. From your villager perspective, knowing that you and McCollins were both villagers, do you believe that EF is a wolf?

Based on that answer, how do you interpret the last two days?

TY Hoops. I'm slightly embarrassed at how rough I took my misplay but wtf, at least I care about the outcome.

First, I believe that something Telle said earlier. I don't mean this in a bad way, but I've never really found myself agreeing (or I guess disagreeing) with Telle before, but we may really need to start looking at the outlying votes. It is looking much more likely that we haven't had a wolf on the block (that only assumes that you believe that I'm a villager). If we haven't been close to a wolf, then the wolves have had no need to make any obvious moves. This won't be popular and will likely drive some votes on me but I'm going to want to see at least one, if not both candidates be people that have not been on the block yet.

As for Eaglefan, I definitely need to go back over the voting trends. From what I've seen though, there has not be a clear cut save effort for anybody. I would've argued that the attempt to put me up as a third party candidate may have been just that but I'm probably wrong.

I do find it curious the people that left votes on me day one then decided not to go after me day two. Not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing but I'll want to see where their votes migrated to.

Still looking at a couple things, including a couple comments that rubbed me 'oddly.'

[path12]

Originally Posted by Racer

I don't have a reason to be suspicious of PurdueBrad anymore. He ended up being the sorcerer in that game, not a villager so Brad's more aggressive play doesn't seem so odd now.

I probably won't keep my vote on Path. However, I'm a little suspicious of him, no one else has mentioned his name, so I thought I'd suggest him and also vote for him. Mainly, I'd like to hear more from him.

Well, I'm back now though I'm just reading through pretty quickly to catch up. What would you like to hear from me? The comment about the pre-med student was speculation -- trying to figure out ways to explain the role that might cast light on the bad guy's abilities. I've got no problem with you voting me though, it'll make me look closer at you, but I think that's human nature.

[Mrs. Schmidty]

I'm climbing Chief's list...I think I get more enjoyment out of that than I should. I'm not a wolf and yet I feel like being sneaky like one for the mere enjoyment of watching everyone tripping over themselves. I know with practice I'll learn to use my "filter" more as far as what I type, but just as in real life I tend to say what I'm thinking when I'm thinking it. I'll try adapting more of a group survival mentality, us against the wolves, as opposed to my current "all for themsleves" way of approaching things. I just don't trust anyone.

*game face on*

[Racer]

Originally Posted by path12

Well, I'm back now though I'm just reading through pretty quickly to catch up. What would you like to hear from me? The comment about the pre-med student was speculation -- trying to figure out ways to explain the role that might cast light on the bad guy's abilities. I've got no problem with you voting me though, it'll make me look closer at you, but I think that's human nature.

Mainly, I was wanted to hear your rationale behind that post (which you just did) and also share any thoughts you had about other players.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

OK, looks like a three way tie with 4 - Eagle, Chief, Clap.

I really think PB is more likely than Eagle to be a wolf from D1. I don't have terribly strong feelings on the other two players so far.

If I move my vote from PB then he drops to one, and there is little chance he'll pick up the votes he needs to be the lynch candidate. So I'm sticking where I'm at and will accept any questioning of it that arises later in the game.

Off to mow.

Interesting choice by you, hoops. Still catching up so I don't know how the vote ends up, but right now there are three people with four votes in the lead, the guy you're on only has two..........it seems really unlikely that a) anyone in the top three is going to move to your guy to get him in the lead; b) since you're gone mowing the lawn you're not here to argue the case against PB and c) since it's a Father's Day weekend there likely won't be enough folks even around to start a run.

So, what you really did is decide not to make a decision and back away from the vote. That's fine (or not, I haven't decided yet) -- but the reason you gave above don't hunt.

[Passacaglia]

7) Mccollins - Jetsin06 (142), Telle (176), oliegirl (187), henry296 (191), Kwhit (284), Chief Rum (287), Eaglefan (316)

6) Claphamsa - Axxon (541), Passacaglia (560), Chief RUm (574), Lonestargirl (595), Telle (610), Eaglefan (640)

Looks like CR, EF, and Telle (in alphabetical order) are our double-villager killers.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

bde=bad

I don't think you need to clarify. We all understand Clapese by now. Don't take that wrong, I <3 Clap.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by path12

Interesting choice by you, hoops. Still catching up so I don't know how the vote ends up, but right now there are three people with four votes in the lead, the guy you're on only has two..........it seems really unlikely that a) anyone in the top three is going to move to your guy to get him in the lead; b) since you're gone mowing the lawn you're not here to argue the case against PB and c) since it's a Father's Day weekend there likely won't be enough folks even around to start a run.

So, what you really did is decide not to make a decision and back away from the vote. That's fine (or not, I haven't decided yet) -- but the reason you gave above don't hunt.

Really unlikely that all 12 people on the 3 leaders don't move their vote? I don't think that is a fair statement, whether or not it worked out that way or not. Did you see just how much movement there was on Day 1?

We're talking about a two vote gap. It doesn't take some Herculean effort to move the candidate I thought was the right vote into the mix.

[path12]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

go stoodents!

If I didn't feel sort of attached to my sig this would be it instead.

[hoopsguy]

I want to run a Claphamsa/Lathum spelling bee.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

That said, I do worry about us dominating conversation and providing cover for the remaining players. I intentionally took some time away from the thread over the weekend to attempt to avoid that phenomenon. I wasn't all that pleased with the results ... does that make me a WW control freak?

That's my only fear with the "hoops/Alan" thing, which actually I think gets overblown to an extent. Fact is, our first instinct is to take a look at the player we're most afraid of. I'm much more suspicious seeing more experienced players going after less experienced players right off the bat, generally.

[path12]

Dola, what I actually wanted to say before getting distracted was that I think that weekends are becoming steadily slower as summer hits. It's nice to come back and only have four pages to go through instead of fourteen!

[hoopsguy]

Clearly slow if you are able to squeeze in a dola within 4 minutes!

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Really unlikely that all 12 people on the 3 leaders don't move their vote? I don't think that is a fair statement, whether or not it worked out that way or not. Did you see just how much movement there was on Day 1?

We're talking about a two vote gap. It doesn't take some Herculean effort to move the candidate I thought was the right vote into the mix.

Not on a weekend, and not if you're away and not arguing the case. I stand by my opinion.

[path12]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Clearly slow if you are able to squeeze in a dola within 4 minutes!

[path12]

Random thoughts.

I won't be voting Eaglefan tomorrow, and I'm not even really suspicious of him right now, but definitely think he is worth a scan.

I also would have moved onto Clap if I'd been around.

Don't even begin to understand the Purdue Brad argument.

I agree with Chief about Mrs. Schmidty; and also agree with him that it was really weird that nearly everyone who voted him had no clear reason for doing so. It was all 'well, guess I'll just go here for now'. I think those voters are worth taking a look at.

There's other odd things that I don't really have a grasp on how to describe right now, so that can wait until later. I will say that it is confusing to me when a game is described as off track on day 2......on one hand, it's day 2. On the other hand, how would one know?

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Looks like CR, EF, and Telle (in alphabetical order) are our double-villager killers.

Just a quick defense of my votes being on there. They were both made as late self defense votes as I was on the chopping block. Taking things out of context is not a good thing (and to be honest that's usually a tactic I tried in games when I was a wolf, though I shouldn't out my wolf 'tell' but I always sucked as one anyway).

That is good food for thought and there is something to be reviewed a bit more.

[Chief Rum]

All right, I work my two jobs tomorrow, and I am not sure I will be able to come on. Probably not (and if I can it will be a quick lunch break visit or something like that).

So I am putting in a vote now and I hope Schmidty will allow it. I PM'd him as well.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

I said that I think we learn a lot from an EF lynch, and I still believe that. I think he's a wolf, and someone tried to protect him today by making me a target. Even if that didn't happen, he's a guy who if we find out his allegiance, we might get more out of the hash of the first two votes we have made.

If and only if EF is killed by the wolves for Night Two...

VOTE MRS. SCHMIDTY (conditional)

I don't know if that will be allowed, but I have to put it out there in case EF gets killed by the wolves. I don't see why they would do that, but just in case.

See you guys tomorrow (probably late tomorrow).

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

All right, I work my two jobs tomorrow, and I am not sure I will be able to come on. Probably not (and if I can it will be a quick lunch break visit or something like that).

So I am putting in a vote now and I hope Schmidty will allow it. I PM'd him as well.

VOTE EAGLEFAN

I said that I think we learn a lot from an EF lynch, and I still believe that. I think he's a wolf, and someone tried to protect him today by making me a target. Even if that didn't happen, he's a guy who if we find out his allegiance, we might get more out of the hash of the first two votes we have made.

If and only if EF is killed by the wolves for Night Two...

VOTE MRS. SCHMIDTY (conditional)

I don't know if that will be allowed, but I have to put it out there in case EF gets killed by the wolves. I don't see why they would do that, but just in case.

See you guys tomorrow (probably late tomorrow).

Since I totally understand that there's nothing that can be done about certain work-issues, I'll allow this.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

Just a quick defense of my votes being on there. They were both made as late self defense votes as I was on the chopping block. Taking things out of context is not a good thing (and to be honest that's usually a tactic I tried in games when I was a wolf, though I shouldn't out my wolf 'tell' but I always sucked as one anyway).

That is good food for thought and there is something to be reviewed a bit more.

Are you talking about me, taking something out of context? I think you're implying way more into my post than was there.

[Passacaglia]

inferring, not implying -- my bad

[Schmidty]

Deadline.

Write-up shortly.

[Schmidty]

Another night has passed, and you actually see some rays of sunshine streaming through the unbreakable windows, but it does little to lighten the mood after the events of the past two days.

After the death of the Jackal the first night, you fear the worst. Grimly, you search the Library, but find no bodies. You do, however, find a large pool of fresh blood in the basement.

Confused panic ensues. What the hell is going on?

Day 3 has begun. The deadline is at 9 p.m. EST

[hoopsguy]

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

[hoopsguy]

Jets, if you want to be making a good vote don't delay. Get in line to vote Alan.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

Well, not even sure how to respond to this other than say it is false. Unfortunately for me a challenge like this is pretty tough to defend against. I'm a wolf just because Hoops says so?

I did have something pretty odd that I received a PM about last night, and to no suprise it came from the person who was probably one of my most distrusted people on my list. I assume it was some form of mental attack that I fought off. Oddly enough, it wasn't Hoopsguy who did it, but instead it was Racer. My PM said that he knows that I knew he tried to invade my thoughts as well.

So hoopsguy, would you like to explain how Racer comes after me and then suddenly you know I am a wolf? Was this an attempt to try to discredit me before I released my information this morning to try to buy more time for Racer? I'm not sure what you gain from this move as the obvious play today would be for people to lynch me, find out that I am good and then kill you and Racer in order. Unless you have some other mechanism that I am unaware of in place, this doesn't seem like a break even play for you.

So color me very intrigued.

[Telle]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

Conversion? Bodyguard block?

In unrelated news, we've got a wolf. I'm not going to try and finesse this, but just put the vote out there and hope that people fall in line. I'll accept any and all consequences for this being a bad lynch, but it won't be.

VOTE ALAN T

Why aren't you telling us how you know? Assuming this isn't a super-ballsy wolf play, you've already put yourself out there as a potential seer and thus probably the next wolf target. Might as well give us all information you know now.

[hoopsguy]

You are right, that wouldn't be a break-even trade for me.

If you look back at your posts in the game where you suggested that Racer was bad you will notice I didn't even respond to them. That is because I knew he was good. All that served to do was increase my suspicion of you.

I really don't want to provide a whole heck of a lot of information about how I know Racer is good or that you are a wolf. By providing that in the thread it will give the wolves a better roadmap on how to proceed. Realistically, that is about the most you can hope for coming out of today. And I don't want you to get even that smaller victory.

I'll color you "busted", along with intrigued.

[hoopsguy]

Originally Posted by Telle

Why aren't you telling us how you know? Assuming this isn't a super-ballsy wolf play, you've already put yourself out there as a potential seer and thus probably the next wolf target. Might as well give us all information you know now.

Because by putting it out there it is available for the wolves as well. Right now I'm guessing they are confused about the direction this took ... just look at Alan's reply.

If I spill the beans on how this sorts out, then the wolves have a much better plan of attack for the next couple of nights.

I know I'm going to be a wolf target ... better that than a lynch target. Even better to get the wolf first, then be the wolf target.

I really don't care how this shakes down in terms of the Q&A, just make sure that the votes end up on Alan today.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

You are right, that wouldn't be a break-even trade for me.

If you look back at your posts in the game where you suggested that Racer was bad you will notice I didn't even respond to them. That is because I knew he was good. All that served to do was increase my suspicion of you.

I really don't want to provide a whole heck of a lot of information about how I know Racer is good or that you are a wolf. By providing that in the thread it will give the wolves a better roadmap on how to proceed. Realistically, that is about the most you can hope for coming out of today. And I don't want you to get even that smaller victory.

I'll color you "busted", along with intrigued.

But this logic doesn't hold up at all Hoops. If I am bad and you are good as you supposedly suggest then by my outing Racer's attack on me last night you know that I already know he did that, then suddenly with your "reveal" you know that I am on to both of you. So why try to hide that, since if I am bad, I already would know of the tie?

The least you could do is come up with some story to present to the group to how this tie between you and Racer exists. Or are we to believe that you are the seer with some magical brother connection to Racer who also has a night kill power the same night that there magically is no night kill?

For whatever it is worth, I am a student of the Entomology field.. but I don't really have any huge reason to fight a lynch today as either today we lynch Hoops or my death leads to two wolves dying tommorrow.. I'm more just looking forward to the explanation of how you magically know each other...


Or did you just assume that I wouldn't have known it was Racer who attacked me and took a gamble on it?