Walmart workers staying home black friday

[CrimsonFox]

This implosion should be really fun to watch.

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[Izulde]

The low wages and crud employment conditions are definitely worth fighting against.

But whining about working on Thanksgiving? Suck it up, kiddies. You work retail. Working holidays is the name of the game.

[CrimsonFox]

I take it more like a really good strategy. You want to really hit walmart where it counts, do it on their biggest day. Maybe then they'd actually listen. And the fact that we are hearing about this already tells me they are trying to use this as a bargaining chip.

[Masked]

Walmart's just going to fire anyone who doesn't show up.

[B & B]

You couldnt pay me to go to Walmart on black friday.

[MacroGuru]

This isn't going to affect Wal-Mart...the issue is, it isn't really the Wal-Mart employees, some of them may be..but it is a labor union stirring the pot.

Wal-Mart's employees are not part of the union.

I used to train Wal-Mart electronics sales associates, let me put it this way. They know from the get go what they are getting themselves into for working there. They either nut up or get a new job. Turn over at Wal-Mart is high, because people do tend to nut up.

If you are working for them and didn't expect what you were getting, then you are naive.

[Passacaglia]

Doesn't seem like a good idea for them to actually be there protesting when Black Friday shoppers arrive.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Masked

Walmart's just going to fire anyone who doesn't show up.

Ding ding ding.

Talk about the ultimate in replaceable workers, this might be it. Requires less skill than fast food (at least they have to know how to run the fryer without burning themselves, or the building, down).

[molson]

I was wondering how much better the employment experience was at Target v. Walmart, since the perception seems to be that Target is the place you go if you feel too guilty to go to Walmart. But it appears they both treat their employees the same, except that Walmart's health insurance is better, and Target pays a little more if you become a salaried employee. If this is all true then Target is "worse" in a sense, because stuff is more expensive there, so you'd expect their employees to do better, all things being equal

Target vs. Walmart
Target vs. Walmart - Which One Is a Better Place to Work? - PayScale Resources

If Target isn't really the anti-Walmart, who is? Where are the people who feel strongly about this stuff shopping? It doesn't seem like there's a lot of options left depending on where you live.

[Izulde]

Both jobs are soul-draining. Target usually has better eye candy in terms of the female employees that work there, but that's about the only benefit. I worked seasonal at Target one year and hated it. Of course things didn't get off on a good start when management lied to me about what department I'd be working in.

Most hilarious part? My first day was Black Friday.

[Matthean]

minimum hourly pay of $13 with the option of working full-time.

Talk about illusions of grandeur.

To be honest, you could sub in a number of retail places in for Walmart, and it would be the same result.

[Fidatelo]

I don't know about the US, but I think CostCo is pretty decent to their employees up here.

[stevew]

I was full time at Target at one point. I think I got 7.25/hour. This was roughly 2003

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I don't know about the US, but I think CostCo is pretty decent to their employees up here.

Have heard very GOOD things about working at Costco vs the others.

[lungs]

I applied at Wal-Mart once and when they were on the verge of hiring me they told me I'd be stocking in the middle of the night. I politely declined and got a job somewhere else.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Have heard very GOOD things about working at Costco vs the others.

Have a friend that has worked for them for years, loves it and they pay really well.

[Lathum]

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for these people. If you don't realize you are dispensable labor it is your own fault. You are uneducated, unskilled, and easily replaced, you have no leverage.

You want a better job, go get an education, work hard, and make your own opportunities. The market clearly dictates what these people make, otherwise they would be making more.

[jeff061]

I remember in my grocery bagging days(hello Market Basket) Walmart paid consideratly more, relatively speaking, to do the same type of work. You were just treated like garbage. Everyone knew that and made their own choice.

Not sure if it's at all similar today, I don't know what $13 an hour equates to any more, but like the 90s seems to me decent pay for bagging and shelf stocking.

[CrimsonFox]

BUt what is it about the "being treated like garbage" at Walmart? The managers really make your life hell? LIke hostile environment type of shit?

Or is it just all cutting hours/changing schedules etc?

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by jeff061

I remember in my grocery bagging days(hello Market Basket) Walmart paid consideratly more, relatively speaking, to do the same type of work. You were just treated like garbage. Everyone knew that and made their own choice.

Not sure if it's at all similar today, I don't know what $13 an hour equates to any more, but like the 90s seems to me decent pay for bagging and shelf stocking.

Peak pay at Office Max for a cashier/floor associate is $12.47/h unless it got changed since I left. We had people in charge of opening and closing stores who made $10/h.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for these people. If you don't realize you are dispensable labor it is your own fault. You are uneducated, unskilled, and easily replaced, you have no leverage.

You want a better job, go get an education, work hard, and make your own opportunities. The market clearly dictates what these people make, otherwise they would be making more.

Ya, I don't have any particular hostility towards the unskilled workers or anything, but if they just make a little bit more, they're making as much as teachers. Just a little bit more than that, then the're making as much as most government employees with graduate degrees. Somebody has to be at the bottom. At $10/hour you have some roommates and you eat a lot of pizza. Most of us have done it, it's not the end of the world or a crippling existence.

[CrimsonFox]

Still sad that teachers make such low pay.

[molson]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

Still sad that teachers make such low pay.

Certainly, they should make a lot more than Walmart employees.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I don't have any particular hostility towards the unskilled workers or anything, but if they just make a little bit more, they're making as much as teachers. Just a little bit more than that, then the're making as much as most government employees with graduate degrees. Somebody has to be at the bottom. At $10/hour you have some roommates and you eat a lot of pizza. Most of us have done it, it's not the end of the world or a crippling existence.

To me that shows teachers as hugely underpaid - not that Walmart workers should get less .....

[Apathetic Lurker]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I don't have any particular hostility towards the unskilled workers or anything, but if they just make a little bit more, they're making as much as teachers. Just a little bit more than that, then the're making as much as most government employees with graduate degrees. Somebody has to be at the bottom. At $10/hour you have some roommates and you eat a lot of pizza. Most of us have done it, it's not the end of the world or a crippling existence.

Yes, most of us have done it but like you said, most of us had roommates to split the costs..Many of the ones in Walmart ARE the moneybags in the family and at 10/hr its not enough to take care of a family.Probably not even getting full time either. Figure about 250/wk after taxes. Pretty dead-end looking to me...

[jeff061]

That can lead you to a few conclusions about lifers at Walmart supporting their family, that they should get paid more isn't one of them.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I have a hard time feeling sympathy for these people. If you don't realize you are dispensable labor it is your own fault. You are uneducated, unskilled, and easily replaced, you have no leverage.

You want a better job, go get an education, work hard, and make your own opportunities. The market clearly dictates what these people make, otherwise they would be making more.

I entirely agree other than the bolded part. If it were to say "The positions do not require an education, special skills, and the people are easily replaced. Consequently, they have no leverage." I'd agree completely. I think the problem here is that those uneducated, unskilled, and easily replaced people THINK they're not easily replaced. Hence the disconnect.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by molson

Ya, I don't have any particular hostility towards the unskilled workers or anything, but if they just make a little bit more, they're making as much as teachers. Just a little bit more than that, then the're making as much as most government employees with graduate degrees. Somebody has to be at the bottom. At $10/hour you have some roommates and you eat a lot of pizza. Most of us have done it, it's not the end of the world or a crippling existence.

(As a teacher) I don't mind people thinking teachers get paid the same as Walmart employees but I make about $50 an hour. Not sure what teacher is getting paid $15000-$20000 a year but it isn't happening around here and Missouri has some of the lower paid teachers in the country.

[Neon_Chaos]

They earn more than the average IT professional in India or the Philippines. Outsourcing jobs from the US to the third world will never fail to be lucrative for companies.

[britrock88]

Originally Posted by panerd

(As a teacher) I don't mind people thinking teachers get paid the same as Walmart employees but I make about $50 an hour. Not sure what teacher is getting paid $15000-$20000 a year but it isn't happening around here and Missouri has some of the lower paid teachers in the country.

Normal full-time employees work 2000 hours per year or so... so are you at or near $100k? Or have you found a way to not do much outside of class time?

[JPhillips]

Social Darwinism is the new hotness.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I entirely agree other than the bolded part. If it were to say "The positions do not require an education, special skills, and the people are easily replaced. Consequently, they have no leverage." I'd agree completely. I think the problem here is that those uneducated, unskilled, and easily replaced people THINK they're not easily replaced. Hence the disconnect.

Add in the mentality if they simply work hard and be a good employee, they will be rewarded with advancement. I was caught in this trap for years. I have a cousin who is going through this as well.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Social Darwinism is the new hotness.

[Edward64]

Originally Posted by panerd

(As a teacher) I don't mind people thinking teachers get paid the same as Walmart employees but I make about $50 an hour. Not sure what teacher is getting paid $15000-$20000 a year but it isn't happening around here and Missouri has some of the lower paid teachers in the country.

I was going to comment about this discrepancy. Avg pay for public school teachers probably hover around $45K to $55K. When you factor in benefits etc. there is no way Walmart employees per above are paid same as teachers, not even close.

[INDalltheway]

As a person that has worked in retail for the past 3 Black Fridays, it isn't about working the holiday, it all revolves around moving the time stores open every year. My first Black Friday we opened at 4am on Friday - no big deal, actually fun. The next year we opened at midnight, still not a huge deal, but certainly moving in the wrong direction. This year we open at 9pm on THANKSGIVING. That is not OK with me. There are two days a year where I don't think anyone should step foot in a retail store and that is Thanksgiving and Christmas. The way things are going stores wont even be closing on Thanksgiving.

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Social Darwinism is the new hotness.

How much an hour do you think a new, unskilled Walmart employee should make? Do you think everyone else below the middle class should be bumped up the by same % (if we had a means to do that), or is the injustice here just that Walmart employees aren't closer to everyone else in salary?

My point was just that some teachers, a lot of lower level office workers with degrees, a lot of semi-skilled workers in blue collar jobs aren't making THAT much more than people at Walmart - especially if Walmart employees got what they, and some others, think they deserve. Are people really concerned about the gap between those workers? A Walmart worker should be proud of moving onto a higher paying job, or going to school to be a teacher or whatever else, and a higher salary is part of that. Many people make those transitions.

It seems like the perceived injustice is just that there's just a bottom. Like the existence of close-to-minimum-wage jobs itself is an injustice. Should we just make minimum wage $20 or $25/hour so millions of jobs of different skill levels can crowd around that and everything can be more "equal" for them, and that there's no distinct bottom (because millions of more people are in it)?

[molson]

Originally Posted by rowech

Southeastern Ohio sees most teachers start at around 24K.

I make 60K with 15 years and a master's degree. Figuring a 40 hour week and that puts me at about $40/hour. Putting it more to how much I actually work, it's probably about $32/hour.

And $13/hour full time would put Walmart workers at $27k/year (full time), higher than new southeastern Ohio teachers, Idaho teachers for sure, and I'm sure some other rural teachers. And it'd be in line with what a lot of new college graduates get in offices. I made $21k/year in my first job in NYC in 2000 - that'd be right around $27/year today with inflation - and that was in NYC, with a degree. I'm sure a lot of posters here would consider that abject poverty and societal injustice, and maybe I'm naive and it was, but somehow I managed to pay the bills, and go out on weekends, and take the bus up to Boston all the time. And I managed to get out of there and takes a lot of steps upward in salary. I don't criticize Walmart workers or any other workers for trying to get whatever they can, good for them if they can get it. I just don't think it's some huge injustice that people make under $13/hour for an unskilled job that you don't need any education for.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

As a person that has worked in retail for the past 3 Black Fridays, it isn't about working the holiday, it all revolves around moving the time stores open every year. My first Black Friday we opened at 4am on Friday - no big deal, actually fun. The next year we opened at midnight, still not a huge deal, but certainly moving in the wrong direction. This year we open at 9pm on THANKSGIVING. That is not OK with me. There are two days a year where I don't think anyone should step foot in a retail store and that is Thanksgiving and Christmas. The way things are going stores wont even be closing on Thanksgiving.

sounds like you work for the jerk store

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

The way things are going stores wont even be closing on Thanksgiving.

Unless you're planning to force the internet to close on Thanksgiving, you're right, because stores who aren't smart enough to open are going to lose a major opportunity.

I believe the stat I saw last week was that between 1/4th and 1/3rd of all "Black Friday" sales occurred before midnight last year. I suspect that figure will approach half either this year or next.

It's not a day, it's a weekend.

[PilotMan]

<------ Is working Thanksgiving and 350 miles away from his family. Same for Christmas.

[PilotMan]

It is what it is. I am just happy to get people where they want to go.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

How much an hour do you think a new, unskilled Walmart employee should make? Do you think everyone else below the middle class should be bumped up the by same % (if we had a means to do that), or is the injustice here just that Walmart employees aren't closer to everyone else in salary?

My point was just that some teachers, a lot of lower level office workers with degrees, a lot of semi-skilled workers in blue collar jobs aren't making THAT much more than people at Walmart - especially if Walmart employees got what they, and some others, think they deserve. Are people really concerned about the gap between those workers? A Walmart worker should be proud of moving onto a higher paying job, or going to school to be a teacher or whatever else, and a higher salary is part of that. Many people make those transitions.

It seems like the perceived injustice is just that there's just a bottom. Like the existence of close-to-minimum-wage jobs itself is an injustice. Should we just make minimum wage $20 or $25/hour so millions of jobs of different skill levels can crowd around that and everything can be more "equal" for them, and that there's no distinct bottom (because millions of more people are in it)?

My problem is less an absolute dollar amount than an attitude by a few here that low skilled workers don't deserve any dignity or respect. People shouldn't be thought of as disposable.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

People shouldn't be thought of as disposable.

So you'd prefer that we deny reality, just operate under some delusion? What a strange planet you inhabit.

[JPhillips]

Just can't imagine Jesus saying, "Some people need to understand they are disposable."

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Just can't imagine Jesus saying, "Some people need to understand they are disposable."

Reality check: we're all disposable in terms of the big earthly picture.

There isn't anyone wandering the planet today that, upon their death, the earth stops turning on its axis.

On a lesser scale, there isn't anyone -- economically, socially, whatever -- whose absence would cause a seismic shift either.

Relevance is a nice bit of fiction that we like to delude ourselves into believing so that we keep putting one foot in front of the other, but that's what it is: delusion (and perhaps no small measure of hubris).

[molson]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

My problem is less an absolute dollar amount than an attitude by a few here that low skilled workers don't deserve any dignity or respect. People shouldn't be thought of as disposable.

Some people could improve their tone, sure, but it's just a matter of how the sentiment is expressed. I imagine for most parents, liberal and conservative alike, if their kids dropped out of college the first semester and then worked at Walmart for 10 years, they'd be pretty disappointed. They might even be really angry. That disappointment is a mild expression of the same point - that the lower jobs don't carry much dignity and respect. They're still humans with value and potential, but Walmart's pretty much the bottom of the employment barrel. (though higher up than breaking into houses for a living or something) The bottom of anything is never going to be a pretty picture. I'm sure there's jobs in Sweden and Norway that parents wouldn't want their daughter's new boyfriend to have.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Just can't imagine Jesus saying, "Some people need to understand they are disposable."

Jesus doesn't really seem to matter to anyone in our capitalist system (unfortunately).

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by molson

Some people could improve their tone, sure, but it's just a matter of how the sentiment is expressed. I imagine for most parents, liberal and conservative alike, if their kids dropped out of college the first semester and then worked at Walmart for 10 years, they'd be pretty disappointed. They might even be really angry. That disappointment is a mild expression of the same point - that the lower jobs don't carry much dignity and respect. They're still humans with value and potential, but Walmart's pretty much the bottom of the employment barrel. (though higher up than breaking into houses for a living or something) The bottom of anything is never going to be a pretty picture. I'm sure there's jobs in Sweden and Norway that parents wouldn't want their daughter's new boyfriend to have.

For me that's more about reaching potential. There are some people that can't do better than jobs at the bottom, but that doesn't mean these people are less worthy of respect. The hardest working guy at my college is a facilities worker. I've never thought he's inherently worth less than I am because his paycheck isn't as high.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Just can't imagine Jesus saying, "Some people need to understand they are disposable."

You don't have to be religious to not think that way either.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

As a person that has worked in retail for the past 3 Black Fridays, it isn't about working the holiday, it all revolves around moving the time stores open every year. My first Black Friday we opened at 4am on Friday - no big deal, actually fun. The next year we opened at midnight, still not a huge deal, but certainly moving in the wrong direction. This year we open at 9pm on THANKSGIVING. That is not OK with me. There are two days a year where I don't think anyone should step foot in a retail store and that is Thanksgiving and Christmas. The way things are going stores wont even be closing on Thanksgiving.

That's my major issue with it. When BB made the move to midnight last year, I hate hate HATED the faux "oh god I'm so sorry we're doing this to you" last year from corporate, knowing full good and fucking well that not one of those executives were setting foot in a store - any store - to work alongside the line level employees whose holidays they had just neutered.

If you feel your line level employees' pain, you need to ante up and show that you're willing to bear that burden with them.

If you're sitting at home sipping wine and enjoying your Thanksgiving while the college kids working for your company are having to show up for work at 6 pm on Thanksgiving because you're opening the store at 8, then be honest about it. Say "Fuck you, I got mine and we're doing this so my stock options will be worth more" not "I'm so sorry I have to do this to you."

You won't be any less hated, but at least your employees won't look at you as a TWO-FACED asshole.