NFL Week 14 thread

[Suburban Rhythm]

Didn't see a new thread yet.

Roger Goodell opens up on letting the Chiefs play, possible rule*changes | Audibles - SI.com

The focus on preventing head injuries has been front and center during Goodell’s time as commissioner, and it’s that aim that has driven a bevy of rule changes. The most obvious include putting officials in charge of sending players out of the game if it’s suspected they have suffered concussions and cracking down on high, dangerous hits.
But is there more on the way?


Already in place for next season is a rule that will force all players to wear both thigh and knee pads.

And one of the more prevalent talking points lately has centered on the dangers of kickoffs. Prior to the 2011 season, kickoffs were moved up to the 35-yard-line, drastically decreasing the number of returns attempted. If at least one NFL coach has his way, the league won’t stop there.
According to TIME, Goodell recently discussed with Rick McKay, Falcons president and head of the NFL’s competition committee, a radical rule change proposed by Tampa Bay coach Greg Schiano. Instead of a kickoff, the team that scored would then take the ball on its own 30-yard line in, essentially, a 4th-and-15 situation. In other words, they could attempt to keep their offense on the field and try to pick up 15 yards, at the risk of turning the ball over on downs; or they could punt.

“I don’t do things for public relations,” Goodell said. “I do things because they’re the right thing to do, because I love the game.”

However, is there a line where watching out for player safety infringes on the very nature of the game? Limiting kickoff returns is one thing (even that drew groans from fans), but eliminating them completely in favor of an off-the-wall replacement rule? That might change the game dramatically, and not necessarily for the better.

As Goodell pointed out to TIME, kickoffs arguably are the most dangerous plays in football because of the high-speed collisions that occur there. Tweaking the framework to add player safety, then, is smart … but Schiano’s brainchild is pretty off-the-wall.

[Passacaglia]

It doesn't seem that off the wall.

[Thomkal]

That's just a bizarre idea-It's not the right thing to do for the game Commish sorry.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

That's just a bizarre idea-It's not the right thing to do for the game Commish sorry.

MORE OFFENSE!!! WOO!!!!

Schiano is smoking something. He needs to go away.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Didn't see a new thread yet.

Roger Goodell opens up on letting the Chiefs play, possible rule*changes | Audibles - SI.com

That rule change is something that has apparently been discussed before. 4th-and-15 converts as often as an onsides kick, and punts from there average out to where kickoffs would average to. But it gets rid of 20 guys charging at each other full tilt, so is safer.

[molson]

I never thought of the onside kick angle, that does make some sense.

[JPhillips]

Aren't punt returns pretty dangerous also?

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Aren't punt returns pretty dangerous also?

The number of full speed collisions on the average punt return is a mere fraction of the number on a full speed kickoff return.

[JediKooter]

The NFL must really hate Devin Hester.

[britrock88]

Actually, I think it's a great idea.

[Logan]

Schiano came up with this idea when he was still coaching at Rutgers, FYI. It was in response to Eric LeGrand becoming paralyzed on a kickoff return.

[Logan]

BTW, when evaluating this idea, start from the premise of "there ain't no way in hell kickoffs will exist at all in a few years". Then decide if you like this option, or a standard of having all drives start at the 25 automatically.

Status quo (or I should say, status "a couple years ago before they moved kickoffs up") just isn't realistic.

[spleen1015]

I don't care one way or the other. If it makes the game safer and keeps it around then I am all for it.

[miked]

It may actually make the end of games even more exciting. I'd much rather watch a team that scored with 40 seconds left try a 4th 15 play than watching an onside kick that barely works.

[Logan]

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

[stevew]

If you let the death penalty PI calls be reviewable, I could probably get behind a change.

[MIJB#19]

playoff scenarios (afaik)

Houston Texans
clinched playoffs in week 13
clinch home field advantage with
* win vs New England + Baltimore loss + Denver loss + Indianapolis loss/tie
clinch bye week with
* win vs New England + Baltimore loss + Indianapolis loss/tie
* win vs New England + Denver loss + Indianapolis loss/tie
clinch division with
* win vs New England + Indianapolis loss/tie
Houston would clinch hth record with a win over New England, already having beaten Baltimore and Denver


New England Patriots
clinched division in week 13

Denver Broncos
clinched division in week 13

Baltimore Ravens
clinch division with win + Pittsburgh loss + Cincinnati loss
Baltimore would get tie-breakers over Cincinnati (division record) and Pittsburgh (conference record)

Atlanta Falcons
clinched division in week 13
clinch home field advantage with
* win + San Francisco loss + Green Bay loss/tie + Chicago loss/tie
clinch bye week with
* win + San Francisco loss
* win + Green Bay loss/tie + Chicago loss/tie
Atlanta can't clinch tie-breakers over San Francisco, Green Bay or Chicago

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by miked

It may actually make the end of games even more exciting. I'd much rather watch a team that scored with 40 seconds left try a 4th 15 play than watching an onside kick that barely works.

What I'd actually love to see is Bill Belichick deciding to just keep the ball and try the 4th-and-15 every time he scores, and just completely give up on defense altogether. Their odds of stopping someone from the 30 are about the same as their odds of stopping them from anywhere else, and he'll get just enough extra possessions out of the 4th-and-15 tries to make it worth it.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see him just start onsides kicking every kickoff right now.

[stevew]

Whatever keeps Brandon Banks from returning it 8 yards deep and getting out to the 13 is cool by me.

[Passacaglia]

Would be neat to see a punt blocked in that situation, too.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

What I'd actually love to see is Bill Belichick deciding to just keep the ball and try the 4th-and-15 every time he scores, and just completely give up on defense altogether. Their odds of stopping someone from the 30 are about the same as their odds of stopping them from anywhere else, and he'll get just enough extra possessions out of the 4th-and-15 tries to make it worth it.

Come to think of it, I'd love to see him just start onsides kicking every kickoff right now.

Interesting.

[Logan]

The guys who are always going on and on about the NFL becoming a touch football league, the new rules are taking away what makes the game great, etc...shouldn't they be for this change? Currently, you score a TD/FG and you immediately just give the ball to the opposing team 95% of the time. Seriously, you just hand it to them! "Okay, now you can score!" Under this method, it leaves the opportunity to say, "You want to score? Well you gotta stop me first bitch!"

It's a much more manly approach when you think about it.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Logan

The guys who are always going on and on about the NFL becoming a touch football league, the new rules are taking away what makes the game great, etc...shouldn't they be for this change? Currently, you score a TD/FG and you immediately just give the ball to the opposing team 95% of the time. Seriously, you just hand it to them! "Okay, now you can score!" Under this method, it leaves the opportunity to say, "You want to score? Well you gotta stop me first bitch!"

It's a much more manly approach when you think about it.

Very true.

[Passacaglia]

That makes sense...hey, maybe they could play "make it, take it"

[Honolulu_Blue]

I kind of like the idea. I'm all for it.

[Suburban Rhythm]

If the kickoff is entirely eliminated, how will a game (or half) begin?

Would the team winning the coin toss get the choice of receiving the opening punt? Could they "demand" the coin toss loser MUST punt to open the game (half), and not try the 4th-and-15 option?

[Suburban Rhythm]

DOLA

[JediKooter]

They should handle kickoffs like we did when we were kids...after a touchdown, you throw a hail mary pass to the other team.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

If the kickoff is entirely eliminated, how will a game (or half) begin?

Would the team winning the coin toss get the choice of receiving the opening punt? Could they "demand" the coin toss loser MUST punt to open the game (half), and not try the 4th-and-15 option?

This is from one of the early articles on this last year:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ffs/index.html

But listen to Schiano for a minute. Hear his reasons for wanting to eliminate one of the most dangerous plays in his sport. Then think hard about his alternative. Teams can punt from the 30-yard line to open halves and after scoring, or, if they want to maintain possession, they could opt to run a fourth-and-15 play from the 30.

I read that as they could go for the 4th and 15 play to open a game, just like a team can go for an onsides kick to start a game now.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

If the kickoff is entirely eliminated, how will a game (or half) begin?

Would the team winning the coin toss get the choice of receiving the opening punt? Could they "demand" the coin toss loser MUST punt to open the game (half), and not try the 4th-and-15 option?

It's not like they can demand that the coin toss loser must not do an onsides kick to open a half.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by Logan

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

I would imagine this includes fake punts, if it's true. It seems very high. About double the conversion rate for 3rd-and-15.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

The XFL Scramble

Didn't the XFL stop the scramble because players got injured doing that?

EDIT: Can't find if they did, but according to wikipedia, the XFL's first injury was a player who separated his shoulder on the season opening game during the scramble.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Logan

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

Take out the Chargers, what's the conversion rate now?

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Take out the Chargers, what's the conversion rate now?

Originally Posted by JediKooter

They should handle kickoffs like we did when we were kids...after a touchdown, you throw a hail mary pass to the other team.

Lots of win in this thread so far.

[stevew]

If the 4th and 15 formation is treated as a "punt formation" and this 1997 rule is in place

"Punts and Fake Punts -- when a team fakes a punt and throws the ball downfield, pass interference calls on the two outside defenders who are actually trying to block a coverage man from getting downfield -- and might not even know the ball has been thrown -- have been eliminated."

I'm a much bigger fan of the change.

I'm actually not opposed to eliminating traditional kickoffs, perhaps with the exception of the start of each half. Allow the team to punt or to go for it.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Logan

A guy posted on a fantasy site I read that since 2000, 80 plays have been run on 4th and 15, with 22 conversions for a 27.5% success rate. This is at least a couple percent higher than the onside kick rate.

Did my own quick look through. I included all plays that were 4th and 10 up to 4th and 20.

2001-2004
321 plays
95 successes
29.59% success

Of those, 18 were punt or FG fakes, which only succeeded 2 times.

If I take out 4th and 10 up to 4th and 14, and just look at 4th and 15 up to 4th and 20.
85 plays
19 successes
22.35%

[stevew]

I wonder if a play is good for like exactly 15 yards on a 4th and 15 or if it's one of those things where it would also be good for 4th and 25 as easily.

[JediKooter]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sources: Chargers to fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith at end of season Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com

[BillJasper]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sources: Chargers to fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith at end of season Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com

Congratulations!

But you know that now the Chargers will go on a winning streak that'll make ownership reevaluate the situation.

[RainMaker]

I actually kind of like the idea. On the other hand, how about Goodell start by eliminating Thursday Night games that are dangerous and unhealthy to teams?

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by BillJasper

Congratulations!

But you know that now the Chargers will go on a winning streak that'll make ownership reevaluate the situation.

Thank you.

It's funny you say that as I was just texting with one of my friends that is from San Diego and is up here in the Bay Area and we both said the same thing. Though it sounds for realz this time even if they do win out or go on a little streak.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I actually kind of like the idea. On the other hand, how about Goodell start by eliminating Thursday Night games that are dangerous and unhealthy to teams?

+1 on both counts. Not that I know if THU night games are particularly dangerous...just that I always forget about it and fuck up my FF team options.

[Dutch]

On the "Josh Freeman Show" tonight (just a local sports talk guy who gets to bring in Bucs players for interviews each week) a caller asked Josh what his opinion of the "Victory Formation Rush" was and the announcer tried to switch the topic.

Originally Posted by paraphrased

Radio Host: Don't answer that...we are not going to get into that
discussion. (He thinks it's a bad call and that even the Bucs players
don't like it)

Josh Freeman: Wait...

Radio Host: ....or, answer if you want...

Josh Freeman: Yeah...Coach Schiano tells us that the game is 60 minutes
long and we are supposed to fight for every second. So when I'm on the
sidelines and I see that...sure...I'm hoping for a fumbled snap...I want
the ball back for one more shot to get it to Vincent (Jackson) or Mike
(Williams). The other team knows its coming, or at least, I would
think they know it's coming, so maybe the center rushes the snap or they force a bad exchange. Honestly, I like it.

Radio Host: Well, one of these days, somebody is going to drop back and
fire a cheap-shot touchdown pass...but lets move on.

(Which to me, opens up for all sorts of possibilities, all of which would favor the defense.)

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sources: Chargers to fire Norv Turner, A.J. Smith at end of season Page 1 of 2 | UTSanDiego.com

it's all fun and games until they hire andy reid

[Sun Tzu]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

it's all fun and games until they hire andy reid

Andy Reid *did* just finish having a nice house built in San Diego county.



No, really...he did.

[Buccaneer]

I like the kickoff idea and the thought that Bellichek would score on the first drive and then make 15 yds every single time and therefore, their opponent would never, ever get an offensive play off.

Great news about the Bolts - it's about frickin' time. I was pissed at Norv and AJ Smith for years until I had enough and switched over to the Broncos this season (along with the Pats, of course).

[Dutch]

If Andy Reid can re-capture the magic that happened when he rebuilt the Eagles...fuck yes, take him...but on the other hand, he's reminding me a like of Mike Holmgren.

[NorvTurnerOverdrive]

doesn't matter who the coach is if they don't get a competent gm. aj smith's given them zilch post schottenheimer

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by NorvTurnerOverdrive

it's all fun and games until they hire andy reid

I think I just threw up a little in my mouth. I have to admit, I don't know if the problems in Philly are because of him or his players are only really good on paper. The Eagles have had some injuries this year though.

[Matthean]

Considering Simmons brought up a point about coaches after the age of 55, I wouldn't expect him to turn things around. I think he's tapped.