Gas wasn't nearly that low, was it??

[korme]

I don't believe this propaganda

[Lathum]

That's nuts if true.

I admittedly don't follow politics, but it doesn't seem like we are in a much better place than 4 years ago.

[cartman]

Yep, it was. But what that leaves out is that six months prior to that, gas was at $4.11/gal (nationwide average). Oil was driven up over $140/bbl on speculation at that time. Then the banking crisis hit and the bottom dropped out, with the per barrel price dropping to under $40/bbl at the time of Obama's inauguration. It is now back up over $100/bbl.

[molson]

It looks like it was even a little lower that that if you make a 5 year chart with this data:

Gas Price Historical Price Charts - GasBuddy.com

Of course, the price of gas and oil plummeted in 2008-2009 because of a huge global recession, so it's not like that was a good thing.

[sabotai]

According to GasBuddy.com, the national price did plummet at the end of 2008 (as did the price of crude oil) to around that point, and since the beginning of 2009 the price has steadily been going back up (as has the price of crude oil).

However, it still hasn't gotten as high as the average during the summer of 2008.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by cartman

Yep, it was. But what that leaves out is that six months prior to that, gas was at $4.11/gal (nationwide average). Oil was driven up over $140/bbl on speculation at that time. Then the banking crisis hit and the bottom dropped out, with the per barrel price dropping to under $40/bbl at the time of Obama's inauguration. It is now back up over $100/bbl.

wait a second there fella, aint you from Texas?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Lathum

wait a second there fella, aint you from Texas?

Yep, and I've been doing quite a bit of consulting for oil and gas companies lately as well.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Here's a NYT article that puts the reference at $1.62/g at the end of 2008
NY Times Advertisement

In fairness, the benchmark on the post-it was taken at nearly the floor as this 2009 graphic shows

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by cartman

Yep, it was. But what that leaves out is that six months prior to that, gas was at $4.11/gal (nationwide average). Oil was driven up over $140/bbl on speculation at that time. Then the banking crisis hit and the bottom dropped out, with the per barrel price dropping to under $40/bbl at the time of Obama's inauguration. It is now back up over $100/bbl.

So we can get this thing back to $1.78 a gallon then, right?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

So we can get this thing back to $1.78 a gallon then, right?

With another global financial crisis, sure.

Another way would be to limit speculation was oil futures. There are estimates out there that anywhere from $20-$40 of the per barrel price is due strictly to speculators. It isn't supply concerns driving up prices, because the per day output is higher right now than at the end of 2008.

[Mota]

I just did the conversion and apparently in Toronto we're paying about $4.80 a gallon. Between toll roads and gas (and ignoring any other car expenses), I'm spending about $500 a month JUST TO GET TO WORK.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

That's nuts if true.

I admittedly don't follow politics, but it doesn't seem like we are in a much better place than 4 years ago.

Really? Lets flash back to this time in 2008, the recession was creeping along but somewhat unnoticed by most. The housing market was starting to fall and had for a couple of quarters. There was a huge commodities bubble that would culminate with $4 gas in the summer and significant food price increases.

In another 2 weeks, financial folks really start to notice when Bear Stearns goes belly up. But it's not really until September when things get crazy when it seems like every weekend something goes horribly wrong. First Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac go into government receivership followed by Merrill Lynch, Lehman Brothers, AIG, and WaMu. In this time, the buck is broken (good news, kids: we were about 6 hours away from the fall of Western Civilization on September 16th), the bottom falls out of the stock market, and jobs are being shed by the hundreds of thousands a week.

I hate to say it, but as crappy as things are now- they were worse 4 years ago. That said, it has more to do with the natural flow of the economy than anything Obama did.

SI

[Ksyrup]

It really does feel like we're at the tipping point of the "double-edged' sword with gas prices - the only way we're ever going to see the kinds of consistently low prices we were used to a decade or more ago is when the economy is going so bad that oil consumption drops off, dropping the price of oil and gas. When the economy picks back up, more oil is used, the price of a barrel jumps back up, and we're seeing $3.50-$4.50 (national average) gas - which causes most people/businesses to change the way they operate, and the cycle starts over as the economy slows down and gas prices drop.

I'm not sure the average American or typical business is able to sustain prosperity in this country when gas is $4+. We've never done it before. But that seems to be the reality that we have to adjust to. it seems like the only choices are "bad economy, but $2 gas," or "good economy, but $4 gas."

[sterlingice]

I guess isn't the simple answer to get off of gas entirely or at least seriously moderate our use of it so that it doesn't have this crippling effect on the economy?

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I hate to say it, but as crappy as things are now- they were worse 4 years ago.

Speak for yourself.

That said, it has more to do with the natural flow of the economy than anything Obama did.

This I'll agree with. Presidential impact on national economy, much less global, tends to be overstated, regardless of direction or President. And I believe the impact that does exist is considerably psychological.

[stevew]

When it was 1 something a gallon that price was pretty much as unrealistic as 4.xx a gallon is.

[albionmoonlight]

Yeah, if that note writer really wants < $2 gas, what he is really wanting is another global recession.

Along these lines, I was watching a Law and Order rerun the other day, and the detectives were going through credit card receipts to try and figure out the suspect's movements on the day of the killing. And one of the detectives said something along the lines of "Well, we know she had a full tank. Look here, $15 for gas that morning."

Wow.

[stevew]

That's obviously a GCB writing there. No guy writes like that.

[Blackadar]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Speak for yourself.

He doesn't need to speak for himself. In general, things are better than they were 4 years ago. The US was mired in a year-long recession during the last year of Bush's term, with an economy on the brink of total collapse - literally, within hours of a complete financial sector failure. In the 4th quarter of 2008 and the 1st quarter of 2009 - Bush's last quarters of office - GDP dropped an incredible 8.9% and 6.7%. The economic data doesn't lie.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Blackadar

He doesn't need to speak for himself.

I think you may have missed my point.

It was meant to be more of a poignant/painful personal observation than one based on economic theory.

[Ramzavail]

Originally Posted by Mota

I just did the conversion and apparently in Toronto we're paying about $4.80 a gallon. Between toll roads and gas (and ignoring any other car expenses), I'm spending about $500 a month JUST TO GET TO WORK.

I spend nearly $400 and I don't even take a car to get to work. NYC MTA FTW.

[JediKooter]

I haven't seen gas that cheap since about 2004ish?

Regardless, last I checked, NO president can really do much about gas prices. It's all about supply and demand. I guess we can blame every president for every bad day someone has or every bad thing that happens to someone.

Lame note on gas pump is lame.

[stevew]

This must be one of those douchy Facebook share things. Just saw someone else post it on their wall.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by stevew

This must be one of those douchy Facebook share things. Just saw someone else post it on their wall.

Based on the handwriting, I'd say it's from Pinterest.

[lungs]

Originally Posted by cartman

Another way would be to limit speculation was oil futures. There are estimates out there that anywhere from $20-$40 of the per barrel price is due strictly to speculators. It isn't supply concerns driving up prices, because the per day output is higher right now than at the end of 2008.

I sat through a semester of Markets and Prices (focusing on Ag Commodities) and I know speculation is a necessary part of the equation but I see it all the time with milk how speculation just completely skews the actual supply and demand picture. Very little actual milk or cheese is traded on the commodity market but what little is actually physically traded completely sways the markets one way or the other. Pure nonsense as I see milk futures plunging yet processors on the ground fighting for milk. Thankfully I've insured 80% of most of this year's milk at a price I can make money. My dad thought things looked better based on supply and demand but I convinced him otherwise and it's looking like a good decision.

Of course, keeping with the oil theme of this thread, our input prices will be up too. Corn farmers will be making a killing this year too, despite high fuel prices. I'm hoping the government wises up and cuts their ethanol subsidies and we'll really see some conservatives squealing when their handouts are taken away.

[Fonzie]

By this logic, the folks responsible for that post-it note should simultaneously be ecstatic about the President's "performance" with regard to the Dow Jones Industrial Average. On inauguration day 2009 the Dow was at 7949, and during his first term has dramatically improved to around 13000. By that measure, the "Hope & Change" is working out pretty well.

To paraphrase JediKooter, lame overly simplified analysis is lame.

[korme]

Took a lot of your thoughts and put them in the comments section of my FB, as I shared this picture to point out the ridiculous nature of it.

Anybody could write anything out of context and half of FB goes bananas.

[Rizon]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

To paraphrase JediKooter, lame overly simplified analysis is lame.

Also, lame ending logic is lame: "anyone but Obama" could mean we vote in Casey Anthony.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

How sad is it that four years ago Sarah Palin was the VP candidate, now she is left to leaving post-it notes on gas pumps.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Also, lame ending logic is lame: "anyone but Obama" could mean we vote in Casey Anthony.

Very good point.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

How sad is it that four years ago Sarah Palin was the VP candidate, now she is left to leaving post-it notes on gas pumps.

Thread over, everyone go home.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Also, lame ending logic is lame: "anyone but Obama" could mean we vote in Casey Anthony.

She'd likely have ideas on how to fix welfare.

\canisaythathereoronlyondeadspin

[SteveMax58]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

I guess isn't the simple answer to get off of gas entirely or at least seriously moderate our use of it so that it doesn't have this crippling effect on the economy?

SI

I hate to sound like a broken record...fuck it, whats the point. I'll save it for the 2016 collapse as it will sound profound by then.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Rizon

Also, lame ending logic is lame: "anyone but Obama" could mean we vote in Casey Anthony.

Not Davey Jones though.





Too soon?

[Ksyrup]

I think Davy Jones was born in Syria, so he would have been ineligible anyway.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think Davy Jones was born in Syria, so he would have been ineligible anyway.

So then it's "TORK IN 16!" it is.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

Yeah, if that note writer really wants < $2 gas, what he is really wanting is another global recession.

I guess I'm missing something, the chart JiMG posted shows gas prices consistantly below $2 since 1991.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I guess I'm missing something, the chart JiMG posted shows gas prices consistantly below $2 since 1991.

The mechanics behind it are complicated, but until the early 2000s, oil exporters primarily used the spot market price (the per barrel price you see for Brent Crude or West Texas Intermediate) to sell their oil on the open market. However, with production declining, many producers saw investors trying to "corner" the market for certain producers. To help hedge against this, many of the producers increasingly turned to using the futures market. This is where speculation started to run rampant. The price of oil today has almost no relation to actual production and consumption levels.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by M GO BLUE!!!

How sad is it that four years ago Sarah Palin was the VP candidate, now she is left to leaving post-it notes on gas pumps.

Toddzilla's right- thread's over and we can all go home

SI

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I guess I'm missing something, the chart JiMG posted shows gas prices consistantly below $2 since 1991.

That was before China, India, Africa, etc. started to develop and consume lots of oil. Global demand is too high right now for a non-recessed economy to support < $2 oil.

The usual caveats about my not being an economist but having stayed at a Holiday Inn Express apply.

[Bobble]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I think Davy Jones was born in Syria, so he would have been ineligible anyway.

Obama was born in Iran (according to my sources) and he got in.

[Shepp]

I saw this article last week.

hxxp://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2012/02/22/gasoline-prices-are-not-rising-the-dollar-is-falling/

I'm sure this is just one small piece of all of the economic forces at play but I think it explais a lot.