The Trump Presidency – 2016

[Atocep]

I think Graham realizes he fucked up pretty badly trying to interfere in Georgia. He's now saying Biden should start receiving Intel briefings.

[Ksyrup]

This is one of those good news, bad news things. Fox News getting what they deserve, but people are just going to even more unhinged, extreme "news" outlets, so we're just trading one problem for a potentially worse one.

BREAKING: Fox Ratings out, and it's bad. Real bad.

Cavuto: ��Down 52%
Ingraham: �� Down 45%
Fox & Friends: �� Down 45%
Hannity: �� Down 39%
Carlson: �� Down 33%

— Major Patriot (@MajorPatriot) November 18, 2020

EDIT: Reading some of the comments to this, I swear they were all a parody, but it's not. These people are nuts.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

This is one of those good news, bad news things. Fox News getting what they deserve, but people are just going to even more unhinged, extreme "news" outlets, so we're just trading one problem for a potentially worse one.

BREAKING: Fox Ratings out, and it's bad. Real bad.

Cavuto: ��Down 52%
Ingraham: �� Down 45%
Fox & Friends: �� Down 45%
Hannity: �� Down 39%
Carlson: �� Down 33%

— Major Patriot (@MajorPatriot) November 18, 2020

EDIT: Reading some of the comments to this, I swear they were all a parody, but it's not. These people are nuts.

Their praise for Hannity and Carlson is downright scary, and disdain for Cavuto who is the only actual journalist other than Wallace is scary. They really are too stupid to realize Carlson couldn't care less about them and he just spoon feeds them shit so they line his pockets.

[NobodyHere]

Serenity Now

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

This isn't NFL news, so I wasn't sure which thread to put this in. Since Trump is still president for another two months I decided to put it in here.

We have various doctrines pertaining to foreign policy (Monroe, Truman, etc.). Here's the Belichick Doctrine.

Bill Belichick Calls For U.S. To Take Action Against Turkey, Azerbaijan For ‘Unprovoked And Deadly Attacks On Armenians’

I appreciate Bill not sticking to sports.

[Flasch186]

Sounds like that 'he'll never do that' scenario where he tries to run out the clock past the certification deadlines and has the legislature hijack democracy and elect their own electors is coming to fruition within the WH's halls. This is the grossest attack on our democracy yet. The drip drip drip over the last 4 years undermining our institutions and breaking down the fabric of our democracy has been explained away by the authenticity of the culprits. This is literally just an attack on the big D and if supported by the GOP then I would argue that the GOP centrists and rationals ought to break away and create the 3rd party we've all wanted.

[Ksyrup]

They can try, but it won't work. One, several legislatures have already said they won't do it (or are prevented by state law from doing it), and two, he needs several states for it to work. If this was a 2000 scenario that came down to a razor-thin margin in 1 state, I'd already write off the election as Trump winning, but there are too many moving parts for him to pull this off this time, thankfully.

I just think the blowback in each of these states would be too great, and each of them has to take a leap of faith that the others are going to follow through and have clear legal grounds to do it, otherwise you've just essentially thrown the Constitution into the garbage, only to have to apologize, pull it back out again, dust it off, and re-frame it. I don't see it happening.

[Flasch186]

They've already 'thrown' so much on the trash heap...in Mich. They literally just did that but relented. Who knows why? They're working on it and all I can hope for is that somewhere someone in the GOP says you know what, Trump you can have the TOP but we're starting the GOP.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

They've already 'thrown' so much on the trash heap...in Mich. They literally just did that but relented. Who knows why? They're working on it and all I can hope for is that somewhere someone in the GOP says you know what, Trump you can have the TOP but we're starting the GOP.

I agree and people saying it will never be successful remind we of the stories a
From history books on the Weimar Republic days before Hitler took power. We need to wake the fuck up . The Ds need to get more aggressive in the Congress and Senate to voice outrage and if progressives want to get pisseed off this would be a great time to get out to the streets protesting at the WH gates to send the message this is not going to happen here in America.....that all being said this all will not happen and we are likely sad to say going to wake with Trump as prez still in 6 months.

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

They can try, but it won't work. One, several legislatures have already said they won't do it (or are prevented by state law from doing it), and two, he needs several states for it to work. If this was a 2000 scenario that came down to a razor-thin margin in 1 state, I'd already write off the election as Trump winning, but there are too many moving parts for him to pull this off this time, thankfully.

I just think the blowback in each of these states would be too great, and each of them has to take a leap of faith that the others are going to follow through and have clear legal grounds to do it, otherwise you've just essentially thrown the Constitution into the garbage, only to have to apologize, pull it back out again, dust it off, and re-frame it. I don't see it happening.

Even if it was just one state, I just don't buy that Kavanaugh and Roberts would go along with that. Article II gives state legislatures the power to deterrmine the manner in which electors are selected, but there's no reasonable reading of that clause that allows them to make an ex post facto change of the manner they've already selected.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

This is literally just an attack on the big D and if supported by the GOP then I would argue that the GOP centrists and rationals ought to break away and create the 3rd party we've all wanted.

This will probably never come to fruition, but moderate republicans and conservative democrats could build a coalition that would be supported by a significant portion of the population. The closest I've seen that happen is the Johnson/Weld ticket in 2016. Although they ran on the Libertarian ticket, they were essentially moderate republicans who had previously won their gubernatorial re-election bids in landslides in traditionally democrat states (New Mexico and Massachusetts).

[miami_fan]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Our fellow citizens and neighbors.

https://abc7chicago.com/disturbing-n...ernor/8079861/

New filings claim there was a Plan B the militiamen had drawn up, that involved a takeover of the Michigan capitol building by 200 combatants who would stage a week-long series of televised executions of public officials.

And, according to government documents now on file in lower Michigan court, there was also a Plan C -- burning down the state house, leaving no survivors.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Our fellow citizens and neighbors.

https://abc7chicago.com/disturbing-n...ernor/8079861/

These guys make a real strong argument for the death penalty. Hopefully nobody involved will ever see freedom again.

[kingfc22]

They’ll get pardons from Trump.

“Law and Order”

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

This will probably never come to fruition, but moderate republicans and conservative democrats could build a coalition that would be supported by a significant portion of the population. The closest I've seen that happen is the Johnson/Weld ticket in 2016. Although they ran on the Libertarian ticket, they were essentially moderate republicans who had previously won their gubernatorial re-election bids in landslides in traditionally democrat states (New Mexico and Massachusetts).

You could argue that coalition just won the white house.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

They’ll get pardons from Trump.

“Law and Order”

State crime so don't think he can pardon them.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

You could argue that coalition just won the white house.

Perhaps on the socially liberal side, but most definitely not on the fiscally conservative side. I don’t recall the Biden/Harris ticket campaigning on smaller, more efficient government.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by Galaril

State crime so don't think he can pardon them.

Rules don't seem to apply these days.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

These guys make a real strong argument for the death penalty. Hopefully nobody involved will ever see freedom again.

Can you legally commit treason against an individual state? Or is treason just a federal crime?

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Even if it was just one state, I just don't buy that Kavanaugh and Roberts would go along with that. Article II gives state legislatures the power to deterrmine the manner in which electors are selected, but there's no reasonable reading of that clause that allows them to make an ex post facto change of the manner they've already selected.

I agree that Roberts won't, but Kavanuagh has already suggested he might. I think there is a decent chance that Kavanaugh, Alito, Thomas and Barret might. Gorsuch would be the questionable one.

[I. J. Reilly]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Perhaps on the socially liberal side, but most definitely not on the fiscally conservative side. I don’t recall the Biden/Harris ticket campaigning on smaller, more efficient government.

I guess it gets into a bit of semantics, but fiscal conservatism means assuring that outlays are covered by current income. Current being the key, deficit spending should be the antithesis of conservatism. So raising taxes and holding spending would qualify. I think the only Republican president in my life time who was actually fiscally conservative was HW Bush. Must be why he’s so revered by the party now.

For instance on health care, the argument over how much of a role the government should play in providing insurance isn’t a fiscal policy debate. It only becomes fiscal when a policy is decided and you move on to how to pay for it.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Perhaps on the socially liberal side, but most definitely not on the fiscally conservative side. I don’t recall the Biden/Harris ticket campaigning on smaller, more efficient government.

To be fair, you said "moderate republicans and conservative democrats"

Not socially liberal, fiscally conservative. Because I doubt the later really exists anymore in politics. The previous fiscal conservative people were shown to be a farce (ie, Paul Ryan).

[cuervo72]

"Small government" = "I hate people"

/prove me wrong guy/

[cuervo72]

I know, Ben will say *blah blah Church* but you know, by and large.

[JPhillips]

I think Trump has shown pretty definitively that there's no large group of fiscally conservative voters. People like getting things from the government, although admittedly some of them don't want other people to get free things.

[GrantDawg]

It is same socially as well. "Don't take my freedom by making me wear a mask, but you better not have the gay sex or have an abortion."

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[Brian Swartz]

It's interesting how people tend to define their own principles differently than how others would define them on their behalf.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by I. J. Reilly

I guess it gets into a bit of semantics, but fiscal conservatism means assuring that outlays are covered by current income. Current being the key, deficit spending should be the antithesis of conservatism. So raising taxes and holding spending would qualify.

And therein lies the rub. We could raise the federal income tax to 100% on those evil rich people in the highest tax bracket, and it would have a minuscule effect on reducing the national debt. How many democrats are in favor of making the painful spending cuts (except national defense) that are necessary to make a meaningful difference in reducing the debt?

[JPhillips]

It's all but impossible to get to a balanced budget without tax increases. The budget is defense, Socal Security, healthcare, interest, and everything else. The public has shown they won't accept cuts in SS and healthcare, and defense won't get meaningfully cut, so there's no realistic way to get to balanced with spending cuts.

[cuervo72]

The top 10% owns something like 70% of the country's wealth.

The bottom 50% owns more like 2%.

How again does taxing the rich not produce funds?

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Perhaps on the socially liberal side, but most definitely not on the fiscally conservative side. I don’t recall the Biden/Harris ticket campaigning on smaller, more efficient government.

Biden has supported PAYGO for as long as I can remember. Much more fiscally conservative than Trump or any Republican that has run in decades.

[CrimsonFox]

so what praytell does "fiscally liberal" mean?

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by CrimsonFox

so what praytell does "fiscally liberal" mean?

Believing in no limit to government spending, and that the country can tax its way into prosperity.

[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

Biden has supported PAYGO for as long as I can remember. Much more fiscally conservative than Trump or any Republican that has run in decades.

When is the last time Biden has said anything about PAYGO?

And the spending plans he campaigned on are much more fiscally irresponsible than anything we've seen thus far.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

When is the last time Biden has said anything about PAYGO?

And the spending plans he campaigned on are much more fiscally irresponsible than anything we've seen thus far.

He has spent the last 40 years talking about budget deficits and being fiscally responsible. He is arguably the most fiscally conservative President elected since Carter.

His campaign platform centered around raising revenue to pay for existing and future programs. Getting rid of a portion of the Trump tax cuts and eliminating business loopholes. He left the door open to some deficit spending while we get out of the pandemic, but that's it.

To say his spending plan is fiscally irresponsible is a complete fabrication. There is zero evidence of that in the campaign or in his long history as a politician.

[RainMaker]

Trump appointed two openly white supremacists to government jobs the other day. So the administration hasn't completely stopped governing.

[GrantDawg]

The last balanced budget we had was under a Democratic president. Fiscally responsible Republican is a myth. Cut taxes and spend money like a drunken sailor. Just make sure none goes to poor people.

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[Butter]

I love that one party has literally undermined free and fair elections and brought us to the brink of literal Civil War, but some people are still like "maybe, but the libs will tax us into a depression!"

Fuck off, sincerely

[cuervo72]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...bc9_story.html

The comment by mtbspd is one to chew on, I think:

Trump won on the economy because Republicans always win on the economy, unless they have their fingerprints all over a recession, as happened in 2008.

Fifty years ago, the "red" places and the "blue" places both generated roughly equal shares of national GDP. Four years ago, the votes were split pretty evenly between Hillary and Trump, and the counties that went for Hillary represented about 60% of US GDP. This time, the votes are a little more skewed toward Biden, but the counties that went for Biden represent 70% of US GDP. The places that lean left now represent about half of the US population, but-out perform the right-leaning places by about 2:1 per capita, due to economic growth over the last few decades.

The places that lean left consistently have higher taxes, more "job-killing" regulations, a stronger social safety net, and yet they consistently have higher economic growth.

Republicans try to hide behind "correlation is not causation", which is a convenient argument, but across hundreds of communities, when you keep seeing places with liberal policies having more economic growth and places with conservative policies having stagnation, the connection becomes inescapable.

We can also look at things across time. The decades after the New Deal saw strong economic growth, and the creation of a healthy middle class. The decades of Trickle Down have seen increasingly anemic growth and families struggling to survive.

Democrats need to run on their policies being good for growth and prosperity, because they are.

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Believing in no limit to government spending, and that the country can tax its way into prosperity.

that sounds like a king sitting on a pile of gold stuffing his face with fat pheasants and buying goldplated toilet paper to wipe his ass

[CrimsonFox]

Originally Posted by NobodyHere

When is the last time Biden has said anything about PAYGO?

And the spending plans he campaigned on are much more fiscally irresponsible than anything we've seen thus far.

what? you mean like buying more stupid fighter jets?

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

The last balanced budget we had was under a Democratic president.

Bill Clinton, after the republicans won a landslide in the 1994 mid-term elections, taking over both houses of Congress. It was part of his successful “triangulation” strategy to win re-election in 1996. Basically, stick your finger into the wind to see where public opinion lies on every important issue. He certainly didn’t show much interest in balancing the budget between 1993 and 1994, when the democrats controlled the White House, the senate and the House of Representatives.

[JPhillips]

1993 deficit was lower than 1992 and 1994 was lower than 1993. The tax increase in 1993 was primarily about reducing the budget deficit.

[GrantDawg]

No no, JPhillips. We have to play along with the fantasy.
I have said before that the Iraq War was the reason I left the Republican party, and that is true. It was the final straw. What started me down the slope, though, was the fiction of fiscally responsible Republicans. Before 9/11, and before the war you could see George W and the Republican congress spending money like crazy. Huge increases in the budget along with tax cuts. The budget surplus went down faster than a prom date. I had been told over and over and over again how if we just had a Republican President and a Republican congress, then spending would get under control. What actually happened is "let's cut social programs, unless it is a windfall to drug companies, and for every dollar we cut we will give two in a tax cut to the rich, two to businesses and two more to defense contractors. Spend spend spend, cut cut cut. Then go to endless wars to spend some more on no bid contracts to our donors, while they don't provide the soldiers the resources needed.
Fiscally responsible my aunt Fanny.

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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

He has spent the last 40 years talking about budget deficits and being fiscally responsible. He is arguably the most fiscally conservative President elected since Carter.

His campaign platform centered around raising revenue to pay for existing and future programs. Getting rid of a portion of the Trump tax cuts and eliminating business loopholes. He left the door open to some deficit spending while we get out of the pandemic, but that's it.

To say his spending plan is fiscally irresponsible is a complete fabrication. There is zero evidence of that in the campaign or in his long history as a politician.

Talking about fiscal responsibility and practicing it are two different things. Exactly what in his past makes you think that he's "arguably the most fiscally conservative President elected since Carter". He campaigned on trillions of dollars of new spending and not enough tax increases to pay for it.

I hope Biden is fiscally responsible. Honestly, I think he may actually have a fiscally responsible presidency because McConnell won't enact any of his big spending plans.

I don't think McConnell is fiscally responsible either, only that he's a giant dick.

[CrimsonFox]

will seriously be disppointed if VH1 doesn't air the trump reality show that follows him around with a camera this month

[Flasch186]

Watched Rudy’s presser, that was fucking unbelievable


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[NobodyHere]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

Watched Rudy’s presser, that was fucking unbelievable


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Worth every penny of the $20k/day he's being paid!

[molson]

I think Rudy and McConnell are both slowly rotting from the inside and shedding their human form. McConnell's hands now Rudy's brain-juice.

I used to like Rudy. I lived in NYC when he was mayor. I certainly admire a good prosecutor. He's lost his mind and his reputation.

[CrimsonFox]

brainjuice ITT