05-14-2004, 10:47 PM | #1 | ||
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
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Indicted terrorist Moussaoui had Berg's email password...
I didn't see this posted yet.
Get the tinfoil hats ready.... http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-166984c.html The coincedence "explained": http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/Northeast...ter/index.html |
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05-14-2004, 10:50 PM | #2 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
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05-14-2004, 11:49 PM | #3 |
Mascot
Join Date: Jan 2004
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why the hell would you give your email password or anything of the sort to just some guy sitting on the bus with you?
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05-15-2004, 12:00 AM | #4 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Mays Landing, NJ USA
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That's just odd. Some stranger on a bus asks to use yout laptop and you not only let him, but decide to give him your email and password. Not to kick dirt on the guy's grave, but either he was an idiot or there is a lot more to this story.
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05-15-2004, 10:21 AM | #5 | |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!
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Quote:
Good job on using his son's death to make a political statement |
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05-15-2004, 10:26 AM | #6 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
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So while some are trying to conjure up terrorists connections that the FBI seems convinced do not exist, and others are complaining about his parents reaction, has it been missed that the Bush Administration has been caught redhanded telling another lie?
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05-15-2004, 10:33 AM | #7 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkley, MI: The Hotbed of FOFC!
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Or, it could just as easily have been a logistical mistake.
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05-15-2004, 11:41 AM | #8 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Yeah I bet that the Bush administration purposly let Nick out to die. Just to ya know make the presidential race easier for them. and the woman that sent the letter, is she even part if the administratio or the military?
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05-15-2004, 12:00 PM | #9 | |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
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Payne is obviously a State Department employee in Iraq. The US Consulate is a State Department diplomatic office. Plus, she does not appear to be the one who is lying, so what's your point? I am not saying that the US tried to set up Nick Berg (I don't believe that is the case), just that they've been caught lying about the circumstances that led to him missing his flight out of Iraq. |
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05-15-2004, 12:31 PM | #10 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Lying is the wrong word, they did not have accurate information and then they corrected what they said earlier.
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05-15-2004, 01:21 PM | #11 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
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No, lying IS the correct word. They had accurate information to start with, relayed that to the family, and the fact that it was accurate is corroborated by other documentation (i.e. Berg's personal e-mails). It is only after his death, and the subsequent questioning by the family about the US role in detaining Berg, that the US government changed its story to place blame on the Iraqis and try to cover their asses.
Look at the chain of events: Berg detained. Berg sends e-mails saying he is being detained and guarded by US troops. Payne confirms that Berg is being held by US troops. Berg released, and captured by terrorists. Berg executed. State Department claims that Iraqis, not US, detained and held Berg. Iraqis deny holding him. Berg family releases e-mails from multiple independent sources corroborating the assertions that Berg was held by US troops, not Iraqi police. |
05-15-2004, 01:25 PM | #12 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Mar 2004
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good work watson you have caught the government red handed with all these truthful accusations.
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05-15-2004, 01:54 PM | #13 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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I wished you were this attentive and had this much faith in second-hand sources in 1996. Or perhaps I missed the point here? |
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05-15-2004, 02:15 PM | #14 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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C'mon guys, didnt anybody read "Lies! All Lies! And the Lying Liars that tell them..." by Michael Moore besides me and clintl???? |
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05-15-2004, 03:00 PM | #15 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
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I don't understand what the U.S. has to hide here. They can't be held responsible for every civilian that voluntarily enters Iraq for reasons known only to themselves. Who cares whether the U.S. held him at some point or not? I would imagine someone running around working on communication towers without any sort of government contract certainly falls under the realm of "suspicious activities". Unless I'm mistaken, U.S. citizen travel into Iraq without such a government contract or journalism crudentials is illegal - they could have detained him as long as they wanted.
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05-15-2004, 03:48 PM | #16 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Kansas City, Mo
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Its a sad and tragic loss of life for sure.. but my real question is... What the hell was he doing over there in the first place? turning down military guard.. He never should have been in the situation to begin with..
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05-15-2004, 03:51 PM | #17 | ||
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
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E-mails from those directly involved are first-hand sources. I'm not sure what you're referring to that happened in 1996, maybe you can be a little clearer? Quote:
As far as whether the US military had the right to detain him, not what I'm criticizing them for. They certainly have the right to detain people they regard as security risks. I'm criticizing for lying about it after things went wrong. |
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05-15-2004, 04:04 PM | #18 | |
"Dutch"
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Tampa, FL
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Those Lying Liars! Down with Bush! Rock the Vote! Michael Moore Rules! Bring back Stalin!!! [Howard Dean]YEEEEAAAHHHH!!!![/Howard Dean] Last edited by Dutch : 05-15-2004 at 04:06 PM. |
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05-15-2004, 07:06 PM | #19 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fresno, CA
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I think you have to HAVE the facts before you can lie about them. I mean if Beth Payne copied the president on her email to his family, then you have a point. Otherwise you have unequivocally proven that a member of the state department knew the Government had detained Berg in Iraq, and that some Bush administration source said otherwise. Just because you say something that isn't actually correct, doesn't mean you are lying. Have you ever been wrong before? How about mistaken? |
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05-15-2004, 08:41 PM | #20 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
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That argument would have more validity if the Administration had corrected itself after being presented with Payne's e-mail and doing a little investigation. What they did instead was try to discredit Payne's e-mail, and when further presented with Berg's corroborating e-mails, they seem to have decided to just ignore the whole matter. They have yet to admit they were wrong. So I'm sticking to considering a lie.
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05-15-2004, 09:10 PM | #21 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fresno, CA
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OK by me. I give the administration more credit than that. It is the failure to admit error that gets me riled up about the Bush Administration. I mean have they really come out and said they were going to even reevaluate how intelligence is weighted in the aftermath of Iraq? Colin Powell has said the intel was wrong, but has anyone really mentioned doing anything about it? By the way...what has the administration done to discredit the email? I read that the State Department had initially said that Payne was mistaken or had sent the email in error. Are you saying that was the administration's doing? |
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05-15-2004, 09:17 PM | #22 |
lolzcat
Join Date: Oct 2000
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You guys are totally missing the point. It's fairly obvious that this guy was anything but "a USA civilian" in Iraq. This guy was either a spook, Mossad agent, or A-Q sympathizer/member.
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05-15-2004, 09:24 PM | #23 |
College Starter
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Davis, CA
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Shaw, that may well be the case, and might explain the mystifying way the controversy about who detained Berg has been handled.
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05-15-2004, 09:40 PM | #24 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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Then why the instant criticism? Would you have been very critical of FDR for Operation Fortitude if he was your political enemy? Diplomacy is the civilized act of lying, deceiving and misinformation - esp. when one has enemies. |
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05-15-2004, 10:21 PM | #25 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alabama
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The Bush administration seems to have inaccurate information on a lot of things, such as WMDs and the Iraq-Osama connection |
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05-15-2004, 10:25 PM | #26 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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Correction. The Bush administration rely on intelligence that seems to have inaccurate information on a lot of things, such as WMDs and the Iraq-Osama connection. ...and I wonder why intelligence now has been faulty? I certainly remember when it was perfect. |
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05-15-2004, 10:53 PM | #27 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Syracuse, NY
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Ummm they make their decisions on the information that they have, it is inaccurate information regardless of where it comes from. No one is saying intelligence has ever been perfect, but this administration has selectively taken the intel that they want to listen to and run with it. |
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05-15-2004, 11:11 PM | #28 | |
Head Coach
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Colorado
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I agree, except for the "this" administration part. All administrations have. It's just everyone is focused on the current one, until the next one comes along. |
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05-15-2004, 11:29 PM | #29 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Syracuse, NY
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Not true. Example A - The fascination with the Clintons. I guess I should clarify, this administration has been burned more than others by relying on faulty intel. |
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05-16-2004, 05:46 AM | #30 |
n00b
Join Date: May 2004
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What kind of hip new bus to have wi-fi internet in '99, sending e-mail via Berg's laptop. It doesn't exactly say that in the cnn article, but why in the hell else would the guy have a need for the password at that particular time. Naive it was to give out would be an understatement. Did Berg print him out his smtp and pop servers for further assistance to this so-called acquaintance..
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05-16-2004, 09:52 AM | #31 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Kansas City, Mo
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I see sjshaw hit the penalty box.. would that be because of a set of non safe work links in this thread?
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05-16-2004, 01:07 PM | #32 | |
High School JV
Join Date: Oct 2000
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