01-23-2019, 09:34 AM | #701 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
|
Schilling's career peak was from age 34-37. Given the time he was playing, I think it's fair to question whether his performance was enhanced. A more traditional aging curve would have left Schilling as good, but not HOF good.
__________________
To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.. - Mr. Rogers |
01-23-2019, 03:06 PM | #702 | ||
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
01-23-2019, 03:28 PM | #703 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
|
Quote:
Schilling's 34-37 years include 3 of his top 4 seasons according to WAR (including two 8+ WAR seasons) and the one that was as high as the others was due to injury. He was good 30 and 31 (6+ WAR years), but then started to decline... until he hit 34 and hit a career best year. I think in that era it's only natural to ask questions about that. Interesting enough Randy Johnson, as you mentioned, also had something similar... and both Johnson and Schilling hit this late 30s career highs while playing for Arizona. Which raises the question - did they have a SP whisper for the ages, or was that a PED factory club?
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
|
01-23-2019, 05:37 PM | #704 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
Quote:
The age thing seems rather specious. Roy Halladay was better 31-34 than 27-30. Mariano Rivera and Trevor Hoffman pitched without much if any dropoff until they were 42/43. John Smoltz turned back into a starter and had 3 of his best starting seasons at 38-40. Justin Verlander is back as a Cy Young candidate in his mid-30's after falling off in his early 30's. Bartolo Colon isn't a Hall of Famer, but he's another weird case who was out of baseball and showed back up to have his best season at age 40. Going back further through Hall of Fame starters you can find other big pitchers who got better in their 30's as their control improved like Nolan Ryan or Steve Carlton. Glavine, Maddux and Pedro are the only 3 recent HoF pitchers who followed a "normal" aging curve. (Btw unless I'm missing someone who'll get in from the veterans committee it's pretty weird no pitcher who retired between 1998-2008 will make it.) Last edited by BishopMVP : 01-23-2019 at 05:38 PM. |
|
01-23-2019, 09:04 PM | #705 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Puyallup, WA
|
Quote:
Who were the best that qualify? Kevin Brown and David Wells? Pedro should have fallen into that time frame. Brown probably should have received more serious consideration. |
|
01-24-2019, 06:24 AM | #706 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
|
Quote:
|
|
01-25-2019, 04:55 PM | #707 | ||
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
|
Quote:
How about looking at K/9. Yes, Schilling hit 11.3 in his age 30 year. The two years before that he was at 8.8 and 8.9 - very good numbers indeed (and he dealt with injuries in his age 29 season - '96). The year after he was 10.0. Excellent. In his age 32 and 33 seasons he was at 7.6 and 7.2. Then he goes to Arizona. In his 34 season he hits 10.3, then 11.0 in his age 35. In age 36, when also dealing with injuries ('03), he gets 10.4 K/9. And then he goes to Boston where he does 8.1, 8.4, and 8.1 in his age 37, 38, 39 years. As late 30s increase in power was suspicious for hitters using PEDs, I contend it's suspicious for Schilling to increase his K/9 numbers in that way. 3 of his top 4 K/9 seasons came after he was 34. And if you want to blame injuries for his only 7.6 and 7.2 K/9 in his 32 and 33 seasons, then why does not that dampen his numbers in his age 29 season and 36 season? Quote:
Mid 30s are different than Late 30s and have been for a while. In addition, relievers have always been able to pitch effectively later because they have far less wear and tear on their arms due their lesser innings pitched. And the same is true for Smoltz, who probably was effect so much later in his career than either Maddux or Glavine (who also generally followed the aging curve, with his best years in his early 30s and having a decline followed by one really good year when he was 36 to declining the rest of the way) due to having those three years where he was a reliever.
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
||
01-25-2019, 06:19 PM | #708 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
re: Smoltz - let's remember however that those years at 38-40 came 5 years after his TJ surgery.
In the 3-5 years after his own surgery, Tommy John was a 3x All-Star and the 4th season (shortened by a layoff when his young son was critically injured) he posted his lowest ERA since before the surgery. With a rebuilt arm, I'm not sure we can apply the normal aging curves, relief stints or not
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
01-25-2019, 07:12 PM | #709 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Decatur, GA
|
Fair point about a rebuilt arm.
Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
__________________
"A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams |
01-27-2019, 01:58 PM | #710 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Land O Lakes FL
|
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/2...cash-free-2019
As a frequent visitor to Tropicana Field, this sounds interesting. As a frequent user of the wi-fi inside Tropicana Field, it is destined for failure.
__________________
"The blind soldier fought for me in this war. The least I can do now is fight for him. I have eyes. He hasn’t. I have a voice on the radio, he hasn’t. I was born a white man. And until a colored man is a full citizen, like me, I haven’t the leisure to enjoy the freedom that colored man risked his life to maintain for me. I don’t own what I have until he owns an equal share of it. Until somebody beats me and blinds me, I am in his debt."- Orson Welles August 11, 1946 Last edited by miami_fan : 01-27-2019 at 01:58 PM. |
01-27-2019, 02:17 PM | #711 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA
|
Quote:
This could revolutionize the way I don't expect to ever be at Tropicana Field. But while I'm not their target audience, I feel pretty secure in saying that cash transactions are not the reason people stay home. All this does is discourage whatever portion of their older fanbase is cash centric.
__________________
"I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis |
|
01-27-2019, 02:18 PM | #712 | |
Favored Bitch #1
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: homeless in NJ
|
Quote:
blech. Maybe I am old fashioned, but save a few rare exceptions I think it is dumb that you can't use cash. What they should do is set up cash free concessions. Give people the incentive not to use cash, but still give them the option. |
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
Thread Tools | |
|
|