02-11-2014, 10:12 AM | #1 | ||
High School Varsity
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Downriver, MI
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Anarchy. What would it be like ?
I mean, complete anarchy. No government at all. No police, no court. Nothing.
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02-11-2014, 10:14 AM | #2 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: The scorched Desert
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Somalia comes to mind
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02-11-2014, 10:27 AM | #3 |
College Prospect
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: The Flatlands of America
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Have you been following the Browns front office soap opera?
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Post Count: Eleventy Billion - so deal with it! |
02-11-2014, 10:39 AM | #4 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
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Lots of squabbling fiefdoms.
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We have always been at war with Eastasia. |
02-11-2014, 10:39 AM | #5 |
SI Games
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Melbourne, FL
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Very brief for most of us
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02-11-2014, 10:46 AM | #6 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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I assume the question is about the United States? If it happened tomorrow? Obviously since everyone is used to a central government that provides close to everything from birth until death it would be a major collapse.
If it were to happen gradually over time? I would say more like the Wild West or some of the early colonies. The introduction of Somalia into any discussion ignores the fact that Africa has its own sets of problems that exist in most of the sub saharan countries with central governments. Sudan has problems bigger than Somalia and would be considered the exact opposite of an anarchist society. EDIT: Not advocating it one bit. I enjoy sitting at home watching tv with my internet and air conditionting. I also don't think it would neccessarly become Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome. Last edited by panerd : 02-11-2014 at 10:47 AM. |
02-11-2014, 11:30 AM | #7 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Downriver, MI
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Haha. Probably true.
Yes, my bad. I definitely should have been specific. My question was in regards to the U.S. And obviously, a "tomorrow is Anarchy day" would be problematic. But, as you say - if it happened slowly, so people had a chance to adapt. I think, as it was happening, violence would be high. But, I think eventually it'd calm down. People would learn to defuse, they'd know if you stabbed your neighbor because his dog shit on your lawn .. his brother would find you. Last edited by DougW : 02-11-2014 at 11:31 AM. |
02-11-2014, 11:31 AM | #8 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ...down the gravity well
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Quote:
Read Cormac McCarthy's "The Road", I'm pretty sure it'll be like that.
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"General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams |
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02-11-2014, 11:39 AM | #9 |
Pro Rookie
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Prairie du Sac, WI
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Clans and tribes would form around who has the food.
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02-11-2014, 11:57 AM | #10 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
Of course, that also leads to questions about why the government just collapsed, and whether there's some incipient catastrophe like in The Road. Kinda hard to predict without knowing what the fundamental change was. |
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02-11-2014, 11:59 AM | #11 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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I am an anti-Christ
I am an anarchist, Don't know what I want But I know how to get it. I wanna destroy the passerby 'Cos I wanna be anarchy
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
02-11-2014, 12:02 PM | #12 |
General Manager
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: The Mountains
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02-11-2014, 12:08 PM | #13 | |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: ...down the gravity well
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Quote:
Anarchy just isn't sustainable long-term, ultimately there would be some power structure. But I would believe if you wanted anarchy, it would be due a calamity that could not be resolved in a short-term timeframe. Anarchy's endgame would very much be like "The Road" as everyone would be out for themselves and scavaging resources.
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"General Woundwort's body was never found. It could be that he still lives his fierce life somewhere else, but from that day on, mother rabbits would tell their kittens that if they did not do as they were told, the General would get them. Such was Woundwort's monument, and perhaps it would not have displeased him." Watership Down, Richard Adams |
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02-11-2014, 12:21 PM | #14 |
High School Varsity
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: springfield, il
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All you gotta do is see the people at a Wal Mart the day a big snow storm is predicted. If that doesn't make you think how bad things could be, I don't know what would.
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02-11-2014, 12:29 PM | #15 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
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True anarchy wouldn't exist for that long. Someone would make a power grab and plenty of people would create their own police forces. If it all started tomorrow, there would be areas that would disintegrate quickly. There are smaller communities in the midwest that would not see an immediate, massive change.
Within a few months, new power structures would be in place (with lots of infighting in certain areas for that power) Those of us that made it after the first few months would probably start to find some normalcy quicker than most would imagine. |
02-11-2014, 12:57 PM | #16 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
I mean, humans went from hunter-gatherers to an agrarian society even though an agrarian society was much much harder back then (both compared to the present day and compared to contemporary hunter-gathering) and there was no prior history of a "civilized" society. I have no doubt that most people today would be even quicker to grasp the concept that creating at least a decent sized community and taking advantage of economies of scale is preferable to every man for himself. Plus, the most likely government collapse imo would come about due to some sort of bio-infection that wiped out a large % of the population - which would drive people apart initially, but make the competition for resources much less of an issue. Either way, I'm going to my fort-island and learning to love the taste of fish, but I'd hope that a decent portion of my neighbors are up there too, particularly because that gets you past the initial distrust stage. You guys are welcome to come too as long as you can carry your weight and we all agree Tom Brady is better than Peyton Manning. Or at least Eli. |
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02-11-2014, 01:03 PM | #17 |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: calgary, AB
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02-11-2014, 01:08 PM | #18 |
Pro Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Madison, WI
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02-11-2014, 02:27 PM | #19 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
I, for one, welcome my new fort island overlords and their ideals that stress a correct assessment of Eli Manning SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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02-11-2014, 02:27 PM | #20 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
Obviously! SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" |
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02-11-2014, 03:13 PM | #21 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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This is the reaction to only austerity measures with a government still in place and a police force. Not sure how a complete elimination of the government overnight would not cause a total collapse. Are we disagreeing on the use of the term obviously or the fact that the federal government pretty much covers every basic need from birth until death? (Food, water, shelter, clothing) Last edited by panerd : 02-11-2014 at 03:17 PM. |
02-11-2014, 03:15 PM | #22 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Regulation is not the same thing as provides. Or did I somehow miss out on a clothing ration from Uncle Sam?
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
02-11-2014, 03:21 PM | #23 | |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: St. Louis
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Quote:
Dear lord the statists can't handle a simple discussion of complete anarchy without getting their panties in a wad over semantics. I think the United States would be in trouble if the government collapsed overnight. However I'm sure you and SI have some correction to my wording. Hooray! You win! Yeah! Last edited by panerd : 02-11-2014 at 03:22 PM. |
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02-11-2014, 03:26 PM | #24 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Someone's panties are in a wad alright. But not mine, I'm commando at the moment.
Semantics would be arguing the use of 'oversight' versus 'regulation'. You are positing that the government itself is providing those things to the majority of the population. Which in the US is not a true statement. I agree that any society would be in trouble if the government disappeared overnight. The reasons things function rather well is that the government takes care of things so that individuals and business don't have to worry about, like policing, backing a currency, and maintaining transportation infrastructure. Food, clothing, water and shelter would still be available in the event of a government collapse. But acquiring and retaining these things would be infinitely more difficult.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint Last edited by cartman : 02-11-2014 at 03:32 PM. |
02-11-2014, 03:32 PM | #25 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
Cartman's initial response pretty much hits the nail on the head: regulation does not mean providing. Just because you receive some segment of government assistance does not mean the government provides you with every need. Is the tax deduction for my mortgage interest providing for my shelter? How about that I have a job at a government institution this year? Does that mean everything I get is from the government? How about the 7 years before that where I worked at a private corporation? Was I then a "maker" and not a "taker"? What if that corporation was FedEx? Does the fact that the government provides FedEx roads to drive and deliver on count as assistance? SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 02-11-2014 at 03:32 PM. |
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02-11-2014, 03:36 PM | #26 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Back in Houston!
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Quote:
I guess I'm "getting my panties in a wad over semantics", by your definition. In my mind, I don't see the government providing close to everything from birth until death (your words). Or as you put it after that: Food, water, shelter, clothing. If that's really the view you have of the majority of the US, no wonder you're so anti-government. EDIT: That said, they do provide security. So if the idea of rule by might means you get all of those items by force rather than this handy (and, admittedly, flawed) civilization we have now, I guess I could see that. SI
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Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 02-11-2014 at 03:51 PM. |
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02-11-2014, 03:40 PM | #27 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle, WA
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Gotta side with cartman & SI here.
But I am a euro-friendly socialist type so take that into account.
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We have always been at war with Eastasia. |
02-11-2014, 04:07 PM | #28 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
That's without even getting into the wildly divergent cultural gap. Using a Greek riot would be like watching a Panathanaikos game and assuming that's how Americans act at sporting events. |
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02-11-2014, 04:30 PM | #29 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
I'm there - and I'll raid the REI by my place for equipement before I head up. PM me the address so I can put it into my GPS?
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
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02-11-2014, 04:56 PM | #30 |
Coordinator
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: NJ
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If anarchy happened tomorrow? The hillbillies and backward slackjaws I call neighbors, who agitate me to no end at the moment, would be my biggest blessing.
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02-11-2014, 04:59 PM | #31 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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I watch Hillbilly Blood, Survivorman, Doomsday Preppers, Criminal Minds and Spongebob Squarepants. I think I'm sufficiently ready to handle the immediate transition period.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
02-11-2014, 05:15 PM | #32 | |
College Benchwarmer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: calgary, AB
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Quote:
Would they still be available? For our levels of consumption these necessities are produced by specialists. Farming as a general concept may be the same but it has evolved quite a bit since the early 1900's, same with resourcing raw materials for shelter construction and clothing. I'd imagine if the government came crashing down the ability to produce these necessities to satisfy demand would come into question. |
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02-11-2014, 05:48 PM | #33 |
Death Herald
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas
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Sure you likely aren't going to be able to go down to the store and pick up your favorite beer and beef jerky. But that doesn't mean that it won't still be possible to make beer and beef jerky, or find someone who does. Hence the statement that acquiring things we take for granted would be infinitely more difficult.
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Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint |
02-11-2014, 06:00 PM | #34 |
Grizzled Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Backwoods, SC
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For me and my family, life wouldnt change a great deal in the immediate.
Now bigger picture, longer term I could see it being a major inconvenience. Certainly not a survive or perish equation. |
02-11-2014, 10:13 PM | #35 | |
Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Concord, MA/UMass
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Quote:
Don't forget about the Freeport outlets on the way up - I know LL Bean is there, and I thought REI had a store there now as well. That does bring up an interesting question - in a true anarchy situation, do you target a store or two to raid, and if so, which one? A lot of people love to say a Gun store, but those would seem to be heavily protected by people with guns. An REI or LLBean isn't a bad choice - outdoor survival gear always comes in handy as a last resort. Getting some water purifying and/or desalinating equipment would be huge - there's always wells, but if you have to move around you don't want to worry about lugging water in bulk. Especially because I feel like the best food to stockpile early on would be like pasta/oatmeal - small, decently nutritious, very long shelf life - and you need water for those. It'd also probably be wise to stock up on some basic antibiotics from a hospital, but that could get dicey. |
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02-11-2014, 10:27 PM | #36 | |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Massachusetts
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Quote:
I'll totally tear apart the REI. They sell bows and arrows and hunting knives there too if I'm not mistaken. Definitely fishing gear.
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Get bent whoever hacked my pw and changed my signature. |
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02-11-2014, 10:34 PM | #37 |
College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Midwest
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Small midwest town where Walmart would be a killing ground. I'd hit Ace Hardware here which has a little of everything: guns, bows, outdoor clothing, tools, seeds. I live in a close knit subdivision that would definitely band together to protect their own.
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02-11-2014, 10:35 PM | #38 |
Hall Of Famer
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Newburgh, NY
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Easily the worst part would be losing posts.
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