Ping: Werewolf Players/GMs (Current and Former)

[Barkeep49]

Several people have expressed concerns about the Werewolf games. I also am concerned about them as well, despite the fact that my recent game had over 2000 posts.

So I would like to propose we take off this week before someone starts a game. Let people recharge their batteries some and cool off. It seems as though the games have gotten increasinly nasty with people attacking other people rather than their strategy or whatever. I had thought at one point we might even think about developing a Players Code, but that seems like overkill. This could be part of the reason that overall participation is down and maybe have the next game be a 12-15 instead of the 18+ player games we've been running.

I think we still have a lot of committed players, and we're still gaining a new one everyone now and then (such as Pass) and so I would hate for them to have jumped the shark. Perhaps they'll never be as big as they once were, but I hope they can still be.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

(such as Pass)

That's me!

Anyway, yeah, for the longest time, I thought all these werewolf threads were about some video game. When I finally checked one out, the idea seemed really cool!

I'm all for some kind of Players Code. Maybe not hard-and-fast rules, but some suggestions. From my small experience, I've found that the more impassioned arguments don't do much to convince people of anything, rather they just upset people. The only time I've seen this kinf of argument work was when Schmidty avoided a lynching on Day 1 or Day 2, and he was the Spawn Queen.

I guess you guys probably know more about how these games work than I do, and you all probably have some history of being deceived by each other in all the games before I started, so maybe I can see why it gets so personal. But for me, just starting out, it sometimes just looks like a political thread erupted in our werewolf game!

I don't know if this was constructive at all, but it's my two cents.

[rkmsuf]

the werewolves are fighting amongst themselves


run for the hills

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

the werewolves are fighting amongst themselves


run for the hills

I think I saw a werewolf near the dump. With a fun size Three Musketeers.

[Lathum]

My werewolf career is probably come to an end. Now that I'll be working 4-5 nights a week I won't be around at the most crucial times.

[pennywisesb]

I have really enjoyed playing in the games so far. I really hope they continue. Obviously the gameplay is better when people are more active, but I realize that not everyone has a job like myself where I can get computer access throughout the day.

[Marc Vaughan]

I really enjoyed it - although I didn't exactly last long

[RPI-Fan]

Starting next Monday, if no one else wants to DM a WW game, I will step up and do it (especially if N_C wants to play). I want to give N_C the opportunity to enjoy the game that was so fun for me.

If someone else wants to run it -- I'd love that... I would rather participate than run it. But if N_C would like a chance to play I'll be happy to run a game to accomodate that.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

I really enjoyed it - although I didn't exactly last long

That's the same excuse I gave your wife.

[SnDvls]

I'd like to try and run one too, but I'll wait a week or more before setting one up. I've played in like 5 now and really enjoy them all, except when I'm killed early like most people. It got pretty heated in the last two games so I think I'll be taking a break (I was guilty just as much as anyone else) for at least one game anyhow. I too would like to see some guide set up, or better yet a disclaimer at the intro of the game. I know it should be obvious that this will happen, but.

Something like this.

In this game players will lie. Player's will attack other's arguments and posts, but not other players. Everyone understands that this is a game and is independent of life in the real world please understand that when playing this game. Ect, ect.

maybe someone could come up with something better?

[Schmidty]

When I play, I do so mostly on emotion. My strong point is feeling things out, as opposed to the hoopsguy technique (which works very well). I think there's definitely a place for emotion and passion in these games (even when it's faked), but I agree that some people, such as RealDeal, take it way too far.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'd hate to see certain play-styles become illegal. The games would be extremely boring if they simply became emotionless logic-puzzles.

[Neon_Chaos]

I'd be glad to run another game of WW, after a week off. I think everyone deserves a bit of rest.

[hoopsguy]

I'm ecstatic to have my own technique

I know that in the past I have taken a couple of weeks off in between games. When I have played werewolf games I've immersed myself in re-reading an awful lot of posts, notetaking, and trying to see how I can think differently than where my first impulse leads. All of that can get tiring if I'm lucky enough to avoid a lynching for a few days.

Is this reaction solely to the breakdown in the Cowboy/Werewolf game or something that people think has been building up over a couple of games now?

I think my biggest beef in the games is complete inactivity over multiple days from a player. Life will inevitably rear its head over the course of a game; if it gets to a point where you are unable to contribute to a game it should be common courtesy to everyone else playing (and to the person running the game) to excuse yourself until next time.

Do people think that there are animosities making their way from one game to the next? I know that this can be challenging at times ...

I'm just wondering if people think there are problems that have spanned a series of games then what areas are the most troubling?

I would hate to see the werewolf games consume themselves, as I've enjoyed playing them. Just have to do them in some level of moderation to be able to sustain some measure of quality in each game.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I'd like to try and run one too, but I'll wait a week or more before setting one up. I've played in like 5 now and really enjoy them all, except when I'm killed early like most people. It got pretty heated in the last two games so I think I'll be taking a break (I was guilty just as much as anyone else) for at least one game anyhow. I too would like to see some guide set up, or better yet a disclaimer at the intro of the game. I know it should be obvious that this will happen, but.

Something like this.

In this game players will lie. Player's will attack other's arguments and posts, but not other players. Everyone understands that this is a game and is independent of life in the real world please understand that when playing this game. Ect, ect.

maybe someone could come up with something better?

I think a line needs to be drawn as to about how far outside stuff can be brought in... i.e.; it's Ok to look and see when somebody posted, but maybe looking at who's viewing the thread shouldn't be allowed.

Or at the very least, use of the "Who's Online" feature should definitely be banned, I think.

[cartman]

I think I saw a werewolf drinking a pina colada at Trader Vic's.

[hoopsguy]

RPI, I know that I have used those features in past games. I tried to avoid using it in Barkeep's game and it was fine playing without it. But at the same time I felt like I was at a competitive disadvantage because this information is provided by the site and is available for public consumption.

I think it would be dirty pool to send out PMs to everyone in the game to see who has a full mailbox. But it is hard to ignore the "Currently In Thread" option that is directly below where you type.

If I was playing as a werewolf I can guarantee that I would be viewing the thread as a guest from a second computer where I'm not logged in. Or using a bogus ID. Or something to try and counter these tactics.

And you didn't mention the most shady option that I know of - looking to see who is sending PMs during werewolf action times.

[Barkeep49]

Hoops this is coming from the last three or four games. I think you're seeing animosity carry over, which is understandable (we're all human and we grow to like or dislike people) but it makes for bad games. The absenteeism rate also seems to have gotten pretty large pretty quickly which makes things hard.

As to the idea of not looking at the who's online, what's the thinking there?

Finally a suggestion to SnDvls (good luck running your first game!) or Neon, or whoever does the next game: Consider 24 hour cycles. One way to compensate for having players be more distracted is giving them more time to fit in. Obviously it'll slow down the game considerably and would most likely work well in a game where everyone (or most everyone) has something do at night.

I know I have a couple more ideas for games that I think will be good, so I hope that Werewolf doesn't go anywhere.

[Barkeep49]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And you didn't mention the most shady option that I know of - looking to see who is sending PMs during werewolf action times.

While I don't know how this works, this to me seems like the feature that should be avoided if possible. The others I think are fair game as I'm not sure what difference seeing who's in the thread makes as to their wolfishness. I know that when I was doing the Spawn game on those days when you were home sick you were in the thread even more than I was, and yet you weren't a baddie.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And you didn't mention the most shady option that I know of - looking to see who is sending PMs during werewolf action times.

I mentioned banning use of the Who's Online function, implicating this kind of activity was something I don't like.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Finally a suggestion to SnDvls (good luck running your first game!) or Neon, or whoever does the next game: Consider 24 hour cycles. One way to compensate for having players be more distracted is giving them more time to fit in. Obviously it'll slow down the game considerably and would most likely work well in a game where everyone (or most everyone) has something do at night.

one thing about being in AZ or the west coast is a disadvantage for sure. The voting deadline is usually 6 or 5 PM and that's usually when people are @ dinner or traveling home from work so it works against us a bit. I like the idea of a 24hr cycle though and that might help to keep/get everyone involved as one person's down time is another's peak time.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by RPI-Fan

I mentioned banning use of the Who's Online function, implicating this kind of activity was something I don't like.

what is this? must be a feature I've never known about. not that I need to, cause I won't ever use it

[hoopsguy]

http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/online.php?

You get a view of who is online and what they are viewing (or PM'ing). I've never used this as a villager, but I was paranoid as all get-out about this while I was a converted alien in the one game where I've played a bad guy.

Hopefully people are not taking this as an opportunity to use this feature ... I'm put it out there with the idea of full disclosure in terms of site features that can be twisted for WW. It was mentioned in one of my early WW threads. If we are putting together some kind of a code of conduct then I would strongly suggest that the use of this link is discouraged.

[SnDvls]

ah I see. I've looked at the front page list to see who's online, but not clicked on their name to see what they were viewing or anything. I would hope that no one has done this in any games I've been in though.

[Neon_Chaos]

I say use whatever you have at your disposal. The only thing I'd be against is practically talking to each other off-line.

[Mr. Wednesday]

One thing I particularly liked about Barkeep's and Peregrine's most recent games was that everyone had a reason to look at PMs, so I didn't feel like I was potentially giving myself away by reading them.

[Mr. Wednesday]

As far as carrying things over... I certainly carry over impressions of how certain people play and the reactions they tend to cause in the thread, and I'd like to think that I was able to use that to avoid getting too personal in Barkeep's game, despite getting into a sparring match with one provocateur.

[rkmsuf]

VOTE: Werewolf games

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by hoopsguy

And you didn't mention the most shady option that I know of - looking to see who is sending PMs during werewolf action times.

But in most of the games aren't there players with roles other than werewolf who need to send PMs? Just because a person is sending a PM at a certain time doesn't mean that they're a wolf...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

But in most of the games aren't there players with roles other than werewolf who need to send PMs? Just because a person is sending a PM at a certain time doesn't mean that they're a wolf...

I agree with that. A way to get around it would be to use e-mail instead of PMs for werewolf stuff.

EDIT: By the way, I really like the 24-hour cycles idea.

[RealDeal]

Schmidty, to be fair, I've only had a problem in WW with one person. It's not like I'm perennially lashing out at people or anything. And I've always done the best to help my teams, generally successfully.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by RealDeal

Schmidty, to be fair, I've only had a problem in WW with one person. It's not like I'm perennially lashing out at people or anything. And I've always done the best to help my teams, generally successfully.

Seriously. If RD is getting called out, then Blade should be too. I think that it can get alittle out of hand at certain times where the game isn't even being played anymore and it just turns into a big pissing contest, but for the most part I think most of us keep it under control.

[Lathum]

I like the 24 hour cycles, that way I could play

[Lathum]

Also, maybe an interesting twist would be to vote by secret ballot and reveal the votes after the lynching.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Also, maybe an interesting twist would be to vote by secret ballot and reveal the votes after the lynching.

actually I've thought of this a little, but then you'd have to have no pm'ing b/t the wolves because it would create a slight advantage for them, in converse though if they all voted for one person and no one else did it would single them all out too.

[kingfc22]

I wouldn't mind the 24 hr. cycles because I don't usually get off of work until 6 PM PST which is the deadline and other times I work until 10 PM PST and miss everything.

Or even if the vote deadline was pushed back another hour or so.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Lathum

Also, maybe an interesting twist would be to vote by secret ballot and reveal the votes after the lynching.

I second this idea.

I have no ill will towards anyone in these games, and I hope no one has any towards me. What I say in the thread is (mostly) "in character". Hell, Ardent kept kicking my comatose body and I still like him! The lying part of the game is the best...I like the fact that you can use trickery to win. I look at these games a lot like they're the internet version of Survivor.

I think what would be really interesting and unique would be to have immunity challenges every day (for a 24 hour period...since people have different downtimes, etc.). You could make them a puzzle challenge and whoever gets it right is immune. If no one was able to solve the puzzle, then no one is immune. The person sponsoring the game would have to come up with a lot of fair and tough challenges. Just a thought.

[saldana]

as a relative NooB to werewolf (little bit of RA love there), i can understand how people get a little hot, and i hope that i am not one of the unnamed people that is disliked because of my in-game behavior. but i also think there should be a rule put out at the beginning that personal attacks (not about posts, but about the poster) should result in the attacker's being lynched regardless of the vote at the next available lynching...i think that will make people think twice before hitting the Post button.

i think the 24 game block would be good, but no matter where it ended, it would cause problems for a lot of people...if it were later at night, the east coast would have to stay up late, and the night workers would still be screwed. if it ended at mid day, the people that work all day and dont have access from work would be screwed. i would have to see when the cycles ended on a game to game basis before i decided to play.

[Barkeep49]

Bumping this to see if any of the people who talked about running games next week (I believe it was RPI, SnDvls and Neon) were going to sign-up now or wait until next week.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Barkeep49

Bumping this to see if any of the people who talked about running games next week (I believe it was RPI, SnDvls and Neon) were going to sign-up now or wait until next week.

I have one I put together, but I'm going out of town Oct 1-3 (taking my daughter for her first trip to Disneyland) so I'm not going to start it until then, and to also give us at least the full week off from wearwolves. I also have an idea for a second depending on how the first one goes off. I think it will be rather enjoyable. I'll need at least 12 people for it. It has blind votes (via PM), day period is determined by the players, and a new twist.

I could start it early, but with going out of town I don't think that would be fair to those participating, unless I get a screaming amount of people wanting to play with a 3 day pause in there.

[RPI-Fan]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I have one I put together, but I'm going out of town Oct 1-3 (taking my daughter for her first trip to Disneyland) so I'm not going to start it until then, and to also give us at least the full week off from wearwolves. I also have an idea for a second depending on how the first one goes off. I think it will be rather enjoyable. I'll need at least 12 people for it. It has blind votes (via PM), day period is determined by the players, and a new twist.

I could start it early, but with going out of town I don't think that would be fair to those participating, unless I get a screaming amount of people wanting to play with a 3 day pause in there.

I say post sign-ups right before you leave, and then get ready to start the game when you get back. That way we're getting a 2-week break from WW.

[KWhit]

I don't understand why anyone would take the ww games personally.

Um, it's a game, people.