Alright boyz, here we go!!! 'OOTPX' First Impressions!

[spleen1015]

Your super reliever issue, is that using real players?

[Ksyrup]

Yes.

Again, I'm spending more time with my Federal League universe than anything else, so that might be giving me screwy results, but looking through some stats last night, I saw a guy from the 1910s/20s who made a career out of throwing 150-200 innings as a reliever, maybe starting 5-8 games a year but appearing in 70-80 games, who won as many as 19 games in a season and usually had double digit saves.

[Comey]

I have been finding that saves are unusually high in X right now...running fictional setup, historical settings.

[Ksyrup]

WIth these super-relievers, I've done just a bit of looking at boxscores, but it seems they are getting quite a few 3-inning saves. It looks like they are coming in by the 5th/6ht/7th innings and just finishing games because their endurance is higher than the typical reliever. It might have something to do with it being early 1900s, with a smaller pitching staff and just being able to leave the reliever in for the rest of the game once the SP is removed for whatever reason. But yeah, I'm seeing guys with 15-20 saves in 1915.

[gstelmack]

In FOOL-X with fictional players, there are a fair number (I've got 2 or 3 on my roster) of relievers with starter-level endurance. They are made relievers because they only have 2 pitches. Might that be the issue?

[Ksyrup]

I haven't had a chance to look closely at these guys, but yes, I suspect that's the issue - the new pitching system.

[Toddzilla]

I just had a 32 year-old pitcher get a 7-year contract via free agency. I don't care if you're Randy Johnson, that's just insane.

[BigPapi]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I like Marcus and have nothing against him, but I thought I more than documented issues with players being demoted/released right after solid/great seasons last year (or maybe it was 2 years ago, I can't remember), and he apparently looked at it and didn't think it was a problem. I never understood that. A Cy Young winner shouldn't start the next season in AAA, short of losing his arm during the off-season. I still don't think the ratings/stats "sliders" work like they are supposed to. If I want the game to evaluate players 100% on stats, then the AI should be sending the Cy Young winner out there until he strings together a few Wang-starts.

I agree- but have you checked the box to allow the AI to use stats- basically your evaluation %'s you can dictate manually- for evaluation purposes? The advantage of this to me, is that now you can SEE how the AI values a guy with regards to your settings (in the form of stars or a 20-80 rating). I have even seen guys with ratings based heavily on stats actually have an overall rating higher than their potential. Not sure if viewed practically this is any better than last year, but by tinkering with the evaluation weights- you can now see visually what the AI thinks of that particular player. It just occurs to me that it could be a useful tool in determining how to set these weights to reflect your preferred style of play; or rather, the preferred style you would have the AI play.

[DaddyTorgo]

so what's the consensus on this game? worth $20?

what are the flaws still?

[Mike Lowe]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

so what's the consensus on this game? worth $20?

what are the flaws still?

Yeah, it's a great game and I was very skeptical since the new ones have been coming out. It's MLB ready right out of the box (well, after you add logos and pics).

[DaddyTorgo]

cool ML - thanky for the opinion

[MizzouRah]

ootpx for $19.99 bm09 for $9.99

Simulation - Bill 'Spaceman' Lee's Out Of The Park Baseball 10

http://www.strategyfirst.com/en/games/BillLeeBBMogul09/

[Danny]

Posted in the other thread too, but for the strategy first version the patch didn't install right as after I got it in there It says elicense.dll file was missing. Do I need to install the patch a different way?

[DaddyTorgo]

hmm - is that because the strategy first version doesn't use elicense?

[Danny]

I'm guessing so yeah, I don't know how to patch the game now. someone in the other thread posted they did, so i imagine there is a way.

[DaddyTorgo]

hmmm - well i'm still DLing (8 min) but then i'll smack it around and see

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Danny

Posted in the other thread too, but for the strategy first version the patch didn't install right as after I got it in there It says elicense.dll file was missing. Do I need to install the patch a different way?

What is the OOTP version number when you launch the strategy first version? It might already come with the first patch included. If not, it might be a case of where you have to patch through them. Sometimes when resellers repackage a game, you have to get patches through them and they might lag behind a week or so in getting them out.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Alan T

What is the OOTP version number when you launch the strategy first version? It might already come with the first patch included. If not, it might be a case of where you have to patch through them. Sometimes when resellers repackage a game, you have to get patches through them and they might lag behind a week or so in getting them out.

it's "Version 10.0.8 Strategy First"

[DaddyTorgo]

no strategy first patches out for it yet - they have a "patches" section on their website though

[Danny]

Yeah, same info that DT provided.

[DaddyTorgo]

ah well...so we wait for them to update their patches. *chillin*

[Danny]

Yeah, as long as we get the patches I don't care if it's a week or two later.

[stevew]

a bit miffed that they would repackage to a vendor who would put it on sale that quickly. but anyways, I'll get over it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by stevew

a bit miffed that they would repackage to a vendor who would put it on sale that quickly. but anyways, I'll get over it.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out why they were doing that. I took a look at their site, they have a 50% off sale on -ALL- games right now. So they didn't put OOTPX on sale specifically.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn

Guys, we're having massive communication issues with Strategy First. I suggest holding off buying from them until these are resolved. One issue is that as per our contract they may not sell the game below our price, which they do anyway, so I asked them to stop this ASAP today. I am very sorry for the problems.

.

[DaddyTorgo]

hah! bad strategy first!

mebbe i be causing stink and making refundification

[Danny]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

hah! bad strategy first!

mebbe i be causing stink and making refundification

Yeah, I will see what happens first, but I want a supported product. If it won't be I would want to return it and then i'll just wait until the price comes down from OOTP directly.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

In FOOL-X with fictional players, there are a fair number (I've got 2 or 3 on my roster) of relievers with starter-level endurance. They are made relievers because they only have 2 pitches. Might that be the issue?

In 2009, we did see that sort of thing in FOOL, with tons of us (as you probably recall) using relievers as fairly effective starters and it seems the new version has just made that canon to some degree. I think it's fairly okay though, since well...in real life, it can be pretty porous the relationship between someone who can start versus relieve.

But I doubt it was intentional.

[MizzouRah]

FWIW this is the most fun I've had with ootp since 6.5a

[Big Fo]

Anybody else get some sick batter BB/K ratios with very good eye and avoid K ratings?

My 24 year old shortstop just had a year where he hit .341 with 112 walks and 8 strikeouts. Now he missed some time so this was 457 ABs in 122 games but 8 strikeouts for the season is amazing. And he has a 22/20 SS rating, this guy is so awesome. A great replacement for Hanley Ramirez (now moving to DH) who is still going strong at age 35, already totaling 3119 hits, 409 HRs, and 670 steals with .330/.399/.554 averages.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

I like Marcus and have nothing against him, but I thought I more than documented issues with players being demoted/released right after solid/great seasons last year (or maybe it was 2 years ago, I can't remember), and he apparently looked at it and didn't think it was a problem. I never understood that. A Cy Young winner shouldn't start the next season in AAA, short of losing his arm during the off-season. I still don't think the ratings/stats "sliders" work like they are supposed to. If I want the game to evaluate players 100% on stats, then the AI should be sending the Cy Young winner out there until he strings together a few Wang-starts.

I made a long post a couple years ago on their forums about this and my idea for a fix.

I thought that there should be a "Prestige" rating in the game. It would allow stars or popular veterans to have a high prestige rating and thus be less likely to be sent down, traded, or released.

For instance, a player can add to their prestige by making All-Star games, winning awards, or finishing in the top 10 in some statistics. They'd get positive marks for winning divisions, pennants, and titles. They would also gain prestige for staying with a team for a long time (this would reset when a player is traded or signs elsewhere). You could come up with other factors for how players are able to build prestige, this is just a rough outline.

Ultimately the goal is so that teams aren't sending down big name players who get off to slow starts or have seen their ratings slip. It doesn't mean they can never have that happen, but it does give them more leeway than the average player.

So take Derek Jeter for instance. He'd have built up a ton of prestige through all his accolades and the fact he's been a Yankee for so long. There would be little to no chance that they'd ever drop him to AAA or flat out release him. They'd value him more than other teams would too and be more inclined to re-sign him.

Essentially the goal is to add a human element to these players. The biggest gripe I have with simulation games is they don't have emotions built in. Real life sports does and I think you can mimic it in the game.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

I made a long post a couple years ago on their forums about this and my idea for a fix.

I thought that there should be a "Prestige" rating in the game. It would allow stars or popular veterans to have a high prestige rating and thus be less likely to be sent down, traded, or released.

For instance, a player can add to their prestige by making All-Star games, winning awards, or finishing in the top 10 in some statistics. They'd get positive marks for winning divisions, pennants, and titles. They would also gain prestige for staying with a team for a long time (this would reset when a player is traded or signs elsewhere). You could come up with other factors for how players are able to build prestige, this is just a rough outline.

Ultimately the goal is so that teams aren't sending down big name players who get off to slow starts or have seen their ratings slip. It doesn't mean they can never have that happen, but it does give them more leeway than the average player.

So take Derek Jeter for instance. He'd have built up a ton of prestige through all his accolades and the fact he's been a Yankee for so long. There would be little to no chance that they'd ever drop him to AAA or flat out release him. They'd value him more than other teams would too and be more inclined to re-sign him.

Essentially the goal is to add a human element to these players. The biggest gripe I have with simulation games is they don't have emotions built in. Real life sports does and I think you can mimic it in the game.

I like this idea and it's way more logical than the stupid ratings they use that are popularity which seems to have no real impact beyond an email message saying "people are mad" and a drop in team popularity or whatever as if that matters.

The whole morale thing is absurd and I hate it, this would be a way better substitute and easier to implement.

[fantom1979]

It seems like a lot of the things that bothered me in 2007 are still in the game today. I ran a 200 year sim with 2007 the other day to see if I had the desire to get back into the game. In the sim there was one player to hit .400. He did it 4 times. He batted .323, .401, .403, .401, .386, .400, and .378 his first 7 years. The computer sent him to the minors for his eighth year, released him in his ninth, and he retired in his tenth without signing with another team. He never suffered an injury, but because he was an all contact hitter, with no power and a bad eye, the AI valued him poorly and didn't want him. He retired with a 9/10 in contact.

The lopsided stats also are a bit unnerving. Seeing pitchers with 250 strikeouts and 12 walks, or hitters with 45 homeruns, 120 walks, and 10 strikeouts are extreme, but happen with frequency in OOTP.

[MizzouRah]

What evaluation settings are you using fantom?

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Big Fo

Anybody else get some sick batter BB/K ratios with very good eye and avoid K ratings?

My 24 year old shortstop just had a year where he hit .341 with 112 walks and 8 strikeouts. Now he missed some time so this was 457 ABs in 122 games but 8 strikeouts for the season is amazing. And he has a 22/20 SS rating, this guy is so awesome. A great replacement for Hanley Ramirez (now moving to DH) who is still going strong at age 35, already totaling 3119 hits, 409 HRs, and 670 steals with .330/.399/.554 averages.

Yep - and it's crap like this that sours me. Admittedly, I'm only about 40 games into my first season, but I have a Carney Lansford-type 3rd baseman who has about 34 walks and only 2 strikeouts. Sigh.

[Ksyrup]

You should see some of the BB/K ratios for the worst pitchers in my Federal League universe. Admittedly, I expect things like this because I have an extra 4-8 teams sharing the same universe of real MLB players, so the talent is spread thin, but there are guys throwing 100 innings with like a 75/6 BB/K ratio.

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I like this idea and it's way more logical than the stupid ratings they use that are popularity which seems to have no real impact beyond an email message saying "people are mad" and a drop in team popularity or whatever as if that matters.

The whole morale thing is absurd and I hate it, this would be a way better substitute and easier to implement.

This is pretty much how FM models things*, its uses a combination of the coach/managers judgement of the players ability combined with their reputation to make decisions.

(On top of this all the managers/coaches have their own biases - some will be swayed by reputation more than others, some will prefer younger players, some older ... etc.)

*We actually have '3' prestige/reputation variables - one 'Home' (which is where he is at present), one 'Current' (which is his local league/country) and a 'World' one (which is how he's percieved outside of his present league). These allow for subtle nuances where a player has a 'cult' following at his local club but no one else rates him etc.

[Young Drachma]

I do remember that from FM, Marc. And I like the system that FM uses, IIRC.

[DaddyTorgo]

*runs home to play FM this weekend*

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What evaluation settings are you using fantom?

40% this year stats
40% last year stats
15% two years ago
5% ratings

This is a 2007 league, so it isn't fair to get too much in a huff about it. I just notice that some of the problems I have in 2007, still seem to be there in OOTP X. I am slightly disgruntled with direction the game has took in general, so take my opinion with a grain of salt.

As a long term simmer (dynasties lasting 100+ years), it still seems like things were better in the OOTP 6 + Catobase era then they are now. The lack of return of single game leaderboards, sims stopping when major events happen (no hitters, players going for their 500th homerun, etc) have me a bit ticked.

Things that should be somewhat easy to find, such as, who has won the most batting crowns, or who has won the most MVP's is almost impossible without stopping the game every year and working up an Excel spreadsheet.

Add to that, the stat problems listed above (112 walks, 8 strikeout guys) and problems with roster management with the AI, I am not convinced that this game is the one for me. If I look at league totals, the game looks great, but when you dive into the individual stats, I see things that are odd (in both roster management and stats in general).

I have been pretty vocal on the OOTP boards about this stuff, but I know I am in the minority, and I am just about to the point where I have given up. I will try the demo for X (when it comes out), but I doubt my credit card will be coming out this year.

[Big Fo]

In addition to player creation modifiers I would like to be able to edit the ratings spread of the rookie draft pool. Overall I am satisfied with the strikeout numbers so I don't touch them, but I would like to "compact" the ratings a bit so there are fewer players created at both extremes, especially on the high "avoid k" rating end.

And what's the point of all these starters getting created with stamina ratings under 10? (1-20 scale) Again, I'd like to be able to select a range and an average and tell the game not to bother generating single-digit starters because the AI throws them in the rotation and seeing these guys with otherwise great ratings start 35 games with an ERA under 2.70 and only 180 innings pitched just annoys me. In this case upping the stamina in PC modifiers gives a bunch of upper teen's and 20's but still a fair amount of single digit numbers. It only takes a minute or two to give all the potentially decent to great guys a respectable stamina rating when each draft pool is created but I'd rather not have to.

[Atocep]

It took me all of 2 days to shelve this game until it got a patch or two and I just got back to it this week. So far I like what I see, but there's still some things that annoy me.

1.) First and foremost the minor league stats bug the shit out of me. They're still off the first year or so until the auto-adjustments have a chance to kick in but seeing the vast majority of the pitchers in the top 100 prospects list with 9-10k/9 and ERAs over 5 is just ridiculous. It seems to normalize fairly well, but I still had to make some minor tweaks and A ball stats are still as bad as they've been in the past. An entire team of hitters with OPSs in the .500 range.

2.) The prestige rating for players would fix a lot of other issues. I see guys like Ryan Howard, Carlos Pena, ect have 1 bad year and then they rot in free agency. Not realistic at all. These guys would would get at least 1 more look by a team after an off year regardless of how bad their ratings fell.

3.) The game values relievers with wins too much in its award calculations and relievers too much overall for awards. If a closer stumbles into 8+ wins and gets 35+ saves there's a decent chance he'll get the Cy Young. In 4 seasons I've 3 closers win the cy young including both leagues giving it to a closer in the same season.

4.) Too many players step in and have Pujols-like careers where they start producing at an All-Star level at age 21-22.

5.) In my experiences Arbitration values for middle relievers are off. Not sure if its a fluke thing I just ran into or if its a widespread problem, but Tyler Clippard put up ERAs of 7+ and 5+ in the two years leading into his arbitration and he walked away with $4 million.

6.) An option to start with Major League rosters and only 3 levels of minors would be great. I don't feel that 6 levels of minors really works in OOTP. The main problem would be how to handle it since there'd be a lot of guys you'd either have to leave out of the game or release into the free agent pool. I'd suggest merging the best players from High A, Low A, SS A, and Rookie ball into one A ball and just leaving the rest out.


Now the things i do like:

1.) Injuries are a lot better post patch. They seem more realistic in terms of frequency and length for pitchers and on the normal setting you don't see a frustrating amount of injuries overall.

2.) Putting everyone on the 40 man roster for spring training means you have to actually manage your roster now. The days of option years not meaning much are long gone. The days of simply throwing your top prospects on your 40 man roster because you have the room are gone. I've run into several situations where I've had to send down a guy that didn't deserve it because the guy I wanted to send down was unlikely to clear waivers.

3.) I didn't even know about the Super 2 rule for arbitration until last night when I had Strasberg get an unexpected arbitration settlement of $7 million with just under 3 years of service time. It was a nice touch to see once I read up on the rule.

4.) I haven't seen any completely stupid waiver moves by teams. Playing as the Nats I claimed Jo-Jo Reyes from the Braves and since my team was terrible I had a chance to develop him a bit and he became an effective starter after a couple years, but I haven't seen a stud prospect thrown on waivers nor have I seen a guy that was guaranteed to be productive on waivers. Granted, I didn't check waivers every day, but when I'm 20 games under at the break I had little else to do but check the waiver wire for guys that suck less than the guys I already had so I did check it quite often my first couple of seasons.



Overall, I think this version is a big step forward from the last one, but it still needs work in the areas I mentioned and probably a few more. Keep in mind, I'm' not someone that sims to build up a history first or anything like that. I prefer current Major league rosters and just go from there.

[Big Fo]

Originally Posted by Atocep

3.) The game values relievers with wins too much in its award calculations and relievers too much overall for awards. If a closer stumbles into 8+ wins and gets 35+ saves there's a decent chance he'll get the Cy Young. In 4 seasons I've 3 closers win the cy young including both leagues giving it to a closer in the same season.

4.) Too many players step in and have Pujols-like careers where they start producing at an All-Star level at age 21-22.

6.) An option to start with Major League rosters and only 3 levels of minors would be great. I don't feel that 6 levels of minors really works in OOTP. The main problem would be how to handle it since there'd be a lot of guys you'd either have to leave out of the game or release into the free agent pool. I'd suggest merging the best players from High A, Low A, SS A, and Rookie ball into one A ball and just leaving the rest out.


Now the things i do like:

1.) Injuries are a lot better post patch. They seem more realistic in terms of frequency and length for pitchers and on the normal setting you don't see a frustrating amount of injuries overall.

I agree with all of this. I make sure to check the Cy Young voting beforehand each offseason to make sure a starter is chosen. Being able to edit award criteria would be a cool addition.

Originally Posted by Atocep

3.) I didn't even know about the Super 2 rule for arbitration until last night when I had Strasberg get an unexpected arbitration settlement of $7 million with just under 3 years of service time. It was a nice touch to see once I read up on the rule.

I didn't even know Strasberg and other 2009 draftees had been added until your post. This makes me want to start a new 2009 MLB career.

edit- but now that I've simmed that far it seems only a few 2009 draftees are in the 2009 draft.

[Swaggs]

I have been thinking about buying this year's version of OOTP. I had bought from OOTP2 all the way through OOTP 2007 (might have been 2006 -- the last one I bought was the first SI version) and spent a number of years active in online leagues, but haven't purchased in a few years.

Watching the playoffs and gearing up for the offseason talk (maybe turning around the Pirates) has me on the fence.

Anyone have any advice/recommendations? Is it worth buying for single-player mode or do the same old issues prevent it from being a solid solo player game? Someone talk me into or out of it...

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I have been thinking about buying this year's version of OOTP. I had bought from OOTP2 all the way through OOTP 2007 (might have been 2006 -- the last one I bought was the first SI version) and spent a number of years active in online leagues, but haven't purchased in a few years.

Watching the playoffs and gearing up for the offseason talk (maybe turning around the Pirates) has me on the fence.

Anyone have any advice/recommendations? Is it worth buying for single-player mode or do the same old issues prevent it from being a solid solo player game? Someone talk me into or out of it...

I heard there's this nasty bug where you can play as the Yankees for 30 some years and never win a title. Other than that, it's pretty solid.

[21C]

I can't talk you into or out of it but the game is $10 off right now. A good time to buy if you were thinking of doing it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Another sale. OOTP X on sale for $24.99.

[Sun Tzu]

I'm considering picking this up actually. I've been playing OOTP 9 for a while, and though I probably fall more into the Phantom category on how happy I am with the direction the game has taken since 6.5 and before, OOTP is def the best option out there IMHO. What are the pros and cons of upgrading from 9 to X? I know there are individual pitch ratings now...but seriously other than that?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Sun Tzu

I know there are individual pitch ratings now...but seriously other than that?

Arbitration and Compensation have been huge for me in the FOOL leagues.

[Pumpy Tudors]

LOL, I love how he put Inside the Park Baseball on sale, too. Might as well make that one freeware at this point.