The OFFICIAL 2008-09 NHL Offseason Thread

[Dr. Sak]

Triple dola...

Blues trade for G Chris Mason. Give up a 4th round pick.

Preds sign Dan Ellis.

[Logan]

Plus they can guarantee that the mob won't kill his family.

[Dr. Sak]

Per TSN

Goaltenders Ray Emery and Dan Cloutier have been put on waivers, the first step that must be taken to buy them out.

If not claimed by anyone, the respective teams can then proceed with the buyout

[Pyser]

go russia! buy malkin!! (or just have him move to the western conference)

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Triple dola...

Blues trade for G Chris Mason. Give up a 4th round pick.

Preds sign Dan Ellis.

They sign Ellis for 2 years for $3.5 million over the length of the deal.

That's not a bad signing for Nashville. Based on his performance during the end of last year and in the first round against Detroit, I thought Ellis stood to make quite a bit more than that on the open market.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Triple dola...

Blues trade for G Chris Mason. Give up a 4th round pick.

Preds sign Dan Ellis.

I posted this in the NHL Draft thread not knowing it was already here.

[Kozure]

Originally Posted by Pyser

go russia! buy malkin!! (or just have him move to the western conference)

It's being reported in Pittsburgh papers today that Malkin has no interest in any Russian offer and is ready to sign an extension worth 8.5 million a year for 6 or so years.

He ain't going anywhere this year, at least, I think. Which is good because if he can get the determination that Crosby has, he may turn into the best player in the world.

If the Penguins were seriously going to get rid of him, they'd let him go through restricted free agency next year rather than resign him. Next year, if a team gives him an offer for more than 4.5 million or so and the Pens don't match, they'd get 4 first rounders from the team that gets him. But since they seem to be headed toward keeping him long-term, I'm willing to bet they will end up trading Jordan Stall at some point and letting Gonchar go once his contract is up and bringing up one of their young offensive defensemen in the minors. Pittsburgh has surprising depth at offensive defensemen at this moment. It will be interesting to see what they do over the next few years.

Also, the word in Pittsburgh seems as if the Pens are ready to let Ryan Malone go. They offered him a $3 million but he turned it down. They are putting their focus on signing Hossa, Malkin, Fleury and giving what's left over to Orpik, though, don't expect a huge offer for him. They will try to sign him, I think, once they know what Hossa is going to do.

If it hasn't been mentioned here, Hossa has been rumored to have been offered a 7 year, $50 million deal by the pens.

[Kozure]

http://www.postgazette.com/pg/08173/891683-61.stm


That's the link to the Pittsburgh based Malkin story I referenced above.

[Dr. Sak]

Hossa and the Pens cut off talks.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2413...=topStory_main

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Hossa and the Pens cut off talks.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=2413...=topStory_main

Orpik might become the one of the big 3 FAs that gets kept. I don't think there is any chance Malone is back. And now Hossa. I don't see him going to Columbus even though they can throw a ton of $ at him. So it will come down to is that additional $1+ million a year enough to get him to a team other than Pittsburgh.

[Kozure]

Hossa turning down the contract is going to surprise a lot of people here in Pittsburgh. It was said that he would take a discount to stay with the Pens. I think $7 million he was offered a year was actually around his going rate, but who knows what he is going to be offered by a big money franchise. I could see him getting $9 million a year from the Rangers or Detroit depending on their cap situations.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Kozure

Hossa turning down the contract is going to surprise a lot of people here in Pittsburgh. It was said that he would take a discount to stay with the Pens. I think $7 million he was offered a year was actually around his going rate, but who knows what he is going to be offered by a big money franchise. I could see him getting $9 million a year from the Rangers or Detroit depending on their cap situations.

You won't see that from Detroit. Kenny Holland has come out and said guys have to take a Detroit deal, meaning less money for a better chance to win. With Lidstrom, Dats and Rafalski all making serious money, and Zetterberg's new deal on the horizon, I doubt Holland will offer anything more then 6 mil per for Holland.

If they try signing any big name forward, it'll be Sundin.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

You won't see that from Detroit. Kenny Holland has come out and said guys have to take a Detroit deal, meaning less money for a better chance to win. With Lidstrom, Dats and Rafalski all making serious money, and Zetterberg's new deal on the horizon, I doubt Holland will offer anything more then 6 mil per for Holland.

If they try signing any big name forward, it'll be Sundin.

Agreed. While Detroit has plenty of space under the cap this year, things will get tight the following year with Zetterberg getting a new deal, Franzen is up, and the whole goaltender situation may be up in the air too.

I think a one year deal with Sundin is the most likely "big name" free agent deal the Wings will make.

I am beginning to get the sense that the Wings wont be able to get Stuart back. He's a West Coast guy and I don't see why he'd take less to stay in Detroit, where he could stand to make a lot more (based on his performance in the playoffs) playing somewhere he'd rather be.

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Agreed. While Detroit has plenty of space under the cap this year, things will get tight the following year with Zetterberg getting a new deal, Franzen is up, and the whole goaltender situation may be up in the air too.

I think a one year deal with Sundin is the most likely "big name" free agent deal the Wings will make.

I am beginning to get the sense that the Wings wont be able to get Stuart back. He's a West Coast guy and I don't see why he'd take less to stay in Detroit, where he could stand to make a lot more (based on his performance in the playoffs) playing somewhere he'd rather be.

I heard the Stuart thing has some complications in regards to his wife's custody of a child from another marriage. Not sure but it's the rumor. Also, Detroit has high hopes for Jonathan Ericsson, but he could be a Group 6 UFA next year, meaning Detroit needs to work out a deal soon to keep him. Obviously they'll want to see him play as much as possible before pulling the trigger.

I fully expect Detroit to now make a run at Orpik if Stu doesn't resign.

I think next year you'll see a top 6 of ..

Lidstrom - Rafalski
Kronwall - UFA (Stuart or Orpik is my guess)
Lebda - Ericsson

Chelios and Quincey

I expect Lilja and Meech to be gone. Hopefully we can deal Meech for a pick but because he has to clear waivers, I am not sure if anyone will bite.

[duff88]

Hopefully the Habs can get a deal done with Sundin, I can already imagine:

Tanguay - Sundin - Latendresse
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn
Begin - Lapierre - Kostopoulos

[Pyser]

ny post:

Glen Sather is seriously considering a 2008-09 go-for-it-now first line tandem of Mats Sundin and Jaromir Jagr, sources in Europe and North America have told The Post. Sundin, the 37-year-old long-time Maple Leafs captain who can become an unrestricted free agent on July 1, has made it clear New York is his desired destination. Indeed, we're told that the Rangers have held conversations with both the centerman and his representative, J.P. Barry, after having received permission to do so by Toronto.

[Dr. Sak]

Maybe Sather has invested in either wheelchairs or walkers for his first line.

[Logan]

What's Sundin seeking? While I'd rather they go after Hossa, if it's a short deal I don't really have an issue with it.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Logan

What's Sundin seeking? While I'd rather they go after Hossa, if it's a short deal I don't really have an issue with it.

You never know with Mats. Rumor is he wants big dollars (over $7M) and would prefer a two-year deal, which of course would include a no-trade clause.

However, he's an odd guy at this time of year. He could wander into the mountains of Sweden and emerge a week later with a full length beard and a willingless to play for the league minimum.

[Pyser]

hossa seems to make a TON more sense for the rangers, to line up next to drury or gomez for the next 6 years or so.

if they add sundin, the post says drury would move to the wing.

[Dr. Sak]

Gary Roberts won't be back for Pittsburgh in 08-09.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Gary Roberts won't be back for Pittsburgh in 08-09.

Despite willing Talbot to score the game tying goal in Game 5 of the finals just by sitting next to him and all the leadership he displayed by watching the clock after Talbot scored that goal, $2.5 million is a lot to pay a fourth line guy.

I know Don Cherry would say otherwise...

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Despite willing Talbot to score the game tying goal in Game 5 of the finals just by sitting next to him and all the leadership he displayed by watching the clock after Talbot scored that goal, $2.5 million is a lot to pay a fourth line guy.

I know Don Cherry would say otherwise...

What I wonder is...what sort of market will there be for him?

He's 42 and played about 30 games.

The way the PG story reads, he and his agent realize Shero has other issues to take care of, so they are looking elsewhere. Not that Pittsburgh has interest. I would think if he has minimal offers, he'd be loved here again...just at a drastically reduced rate.

[RomaGoth]

Originally Posted by bsak16

Gary Roberts won't be back for Pittsburgh in 08-09.

I am sure the Rangers are already on the phone.

[Pyser]

the nhl really needs to do something about everyone being "granted permission" to talk to teams ahead of the start of ufa.

just another broken thing under bettmans watch.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Darcy Tucker bought out, so now a UFA.

[Pyser]

A report in the New York Post on Tuesday suggested the Rangers are also talking to Sundin but Leafs GM Cliff Fletcher said that is not true.

"Montreal is the only team that has the rights to talk to him," Fletcher said Tuesday. "The Rangers did not ask for permission to talk to Sundin and we have given the exclusive rights to Montreal."

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

the nhl really needs to do something about everyone being "granted permission" to talk to teams ahead of the start of ufa.

just another broken thing under bettmans watch.

Broken? Why's that?

I kind of like it. It adds another wrinkle to the whole UFA period. You grant a team "permission" to "talk" and if they happen to reach an agreement pre July 1, you get some compensation for it. I don't see the problem.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by Suburban Rhythm

Darcy Tucker bought out, so now a UFA.

...and Kyle Wellwood and Andrew Raycroft waived.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Broken? Why's that?

I kind of like it. It adds another wrinkle to the whole UFA period. You grant a team "permission" to "talk" and if they happen to reach an agreement pre July 1, you get some compensation for it. I don't see the problem.

is there sarcasm here? i cant tell anymore

teams get compensation regardless, i thought, for free agents they lost. but in the rangers/sundin case, depending on who you believe, the rangers just get to talk to sundin without having traded anything to the leafs first. how is that not a problem?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

is there sarcasm here? i cant tell anymore

teams get compensation regardless, i thought, for free agents they lost. but in the rangers/sundin case, depending on who you believe, the rangers just get to talk to sundin without having traded anything to the leafs first. how is that not a problem?

No sarcasm at all.

I don't think that's the case anymore. I know back under the old CBA there was some odd system where a team would get compensatory draft picks based on some figure related to the UFAs that were lost (I believe it was some how related to the percentage of the UFA's salary as compared to the team's entire roster). I haven't heard anything about this since the new CBA and, therefore, I think was written out completely.

That led to a lot of weird summer deals where team X would trade high priced free agent to team Y for a draft pick. Team Y would get a decent compensatory draft pick, I believe, based on the percentage the value of the UFA's old contract was in relation to their entire payroll. Under that system a high priced free agent would be of more value to a smaller market team.

I believe that system was much more "broken" then what's going on here. As far as I know, the only team that has been confirmed to be able to talk to Sundin is Montreal, with the deal being either a pick or player coming over to Toronto if they strike a pre July 1 deal with Sundin. Toronto's compensation is entirely contingent on a deal being struck between Montreal and Sundin before July 1.

I don't see any problem with this at all. Montreal is willing to pay a price for that exclusivity, but Toronto only gets something if Montreal does.

I think, at the moment, the rumor about the Rangers is just that, a rumor. If Toronto has granted the Rangers permission to talk to Sundin and his agent pre-July 1, then I would fully expect some similar type of deal to have been worked out between Toronto and the Rangers.

[Fidatelo]

I'm with H_B on this one, I don't see a problem with it. Sundin is Leafs property until July 1, they can do with him as they see fit. No one has said Sundin has to even talk to Montreal, no one is saying other teams couldn't also have tried to work out such an arrangement. It's just a different form of trade, really, almost along the lines of 'future considerations' deals.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

It's just a different form of trade, really, almost along the lines of 'future considerations' deals.

Exactly. It's similar to deals where the quality of a future draft picks is based on playing time or some team reaching the finals/playoffs. These types of deals are pretty common.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

I'm with H_B on this one, I don't see a problem with it. Sundin is Leafs property until July 1, they can do with him as they see fit. No one has said Sundin has to even talk to Montreal, no one is saying other teams couldn't also have tried to work out such an arrangement. It's just a different form of trade, really, almost along the lines of 'future considerations' deals.

I generally agree, but there's one piece that's being overlooked that I could see causing problems.

Let's say, for sake of argument, that the Leafs make a deal with the Habs. Montreal can talk to Mats early, but if they sign him the Leafs get a first round pick. (I can't imagine the compensation would be that high, but let's pretend.) That applies even if they sign him after July 1, since they still had a headstart to help get something done.

Then the Rangers say they want to talk to him too. So the Leafs make the same deal with them. And then with the Red Wings. Why not, right?

But meanwhile, Mats Sundin suddenly finds himself talking to all these teams that know they have to give up a pick to sign him. He's not really a "free" agent any more, and in theory he could see his opportunity to get the deal he wants limited because teams are thinking about the compensation. "Sorry Mats, normally we'd say $8M is fair but combined with the draft pick its just too much..."

Is that fair? Would the NHLPA think so?

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I generally agree, but there's one piece that's being overlooked that I could see causing problems.

Let's say, for sake of argument, that the Leafs make a deal with the Habs. Montreal can talk to Mats early, but if they sign him the Leafs get a first round pick. (I can't imagine the compensation would be that high, but let's pretend.) That applies even if they sign him after July 1, since they still had a headstart to help get something done.

Then the Rangers say they want to talk to him too. So the Leafs make the same deal with them. And then with the Red Wings. Why not, right?

But meanwhile, Mats Sundin suddenly finds himself talking to all these teams that know they have to give up a pick to sign him. He's not really a "free" agent any more, and in theory he could see his opportunity to get the deal he wants limited because teams are thinking about the compensation. "Sorry Mats, normally we'd say $8M is fair but combined with the draft pick its just too much..."

Is that fair? Would the NHLPA think so?

I don't really see that as a concern. If that's the approach they take, Mats would just say, "Ok. I am returning to the mountains. I shall return on July 2 and get my $8M then. Then I shall own the mountains..."

I think the bigger risk, though I am sure there is something in place to prevent this, is that, if the Ranger say: "Sorry Mats, normally we'd say $8M is fair but combined with the draft pick its just too much... So, what we wanna do is have you go back to the mountain, sit around for a week, stare into the fire, cover yourself in mud or whatever you do... On July 2, we'll announce our $8M deal. You have nothing to worry about and we wont owe Toronto nothin'."

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that Toronto only gets compensation if a deal is reached/Sundin is signed before July 1. I am not sure if they get anything if he's signed after that, even if Montreal/New York sign him and may have benefitted from the earlier round of negotiations.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

My understanding, and I could be wrong, is that Toronto only gets compensation if a deal is reached/Sundin is signed before July 1. I am not sure if they get anything if he's signed after that, even if Montreal/New York sign him and may have benefitted from the earlier round of negotiations.

I realize that Toronto management is stupid but why would they allow those teams to get a head start on talking to Mats when they knew that they would get nothing after July 1st? Sure talk to Mats, agree to a contract and announce it after July 1st so we get nothing. If this is all true, Maple Leafs' management is run by a bunch of retarded gorillas.

[Pyser]

and then what about the rangers being allowed to talk to campbell early? i havent heard anything about a trade being worked out there.

either announce the deal as a trade officially, or wait til july 1st. this "ok, you can have him til the 1st and if you sign him we get something, if not, no worries" is bullshit. you either trade for his rights and try to sign him legit or you dont.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by bsak16

If this is all true, Maple Leafs' management is run by a bunch of retarded gorillas.

Come on, ML is pretty good...he doesn't need this big of a softball.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Pyser

and then what about the rangers being allowed to talk to campbell early? i havent heard anything about a trade being worked out there.

either announce the deal as a trade officially, or wait til july 1st. this "ok, you can have him til the 1st and if you sign him we get something, if not, no worries" is bullshit. you either trade for his rights and try to sign him legit or you dont.

I don't think it's "bullshit" until a second team is offered the same ability.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by bsak16

I realize that Toronto management is stupid but why would they allow those teams to get a head start on talking to Mats when they knew that they would get nothing after July 1st? Sure talk to Mats, agree to a contract and announce it after July 1st so we get nothing. If this is all true, Maple Leafs' management is run by a bunch of retarded gorillas.

By everything I've read, that's what the deal is. Like I said, I am sure there are some safeguards built into the process. Maybe there aren't any and it's based on trust. Who knows?

Obviously there is a risk there, but if you're Toronto why not take it? If you believe Montreal and Sundin will be honest about the process, you get compensation. If they lie about it, you get nothing, which is exactly what you would get if you never offered the deal in the first place.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

and then what about the rangers being allowed to talk to campbell early? i havent heard anything about a trade being worked out there.

According to the NY Post something has been worked out between San Jose and the Rangers:

http://www.nypost.com/seven/06222008...ell_116657.htm

"The Rangers are among a select number of teams that have received permission to open early negotiations with him. Should the Rangers in fact sign Campbell, it is believed they would then owe San Jose a second- or third-round draft pick."

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

either announce the deal as a trade officially, or wait til july 1st. this "ok, you can have him til the 1st and if you sign him we get something, if not, no worries" is bullshit. you either trade for his rights and try to sign him legit or you dont.

I still don't see it as bullshit. These players are these teams assets up until July 1. They can offer any other team any rights within the CBA.

In your typical "future considerations" type deal, you get player X and I get a draft pick based on his performance. If he or the team succeeds, I get a higher pick. If he or the team doesn't, I get a lower pick. But I still get something because, regardless of performance, you received something when you got that player.

Here, unless you sign him during that exclusive window, you don't get anything, therefore, neither should I. If you do happen to sign him, you do benefit and, therefore, so shoud I.

Nashville and Philadelphia made a similar deal last year, no? With Hartnell and Timmonen? I think things appeared to go down a bit differently because there was less press about it and Philly locked those guys right up.

[Pyser]

i thought last year philly made the deal, it was announced, and then they tried like hell to sign them. there was risk involved. the no risk stuff is what sucks.

the league should treat this like the nfl. just allow compensation for a lost fa, and let everyone get a crack at the same time. or say the contract ends when the teams season ends, and no one can negotiate but his own team until the start of ufa.

why the need to jump the gun? there wouldnt be one if the original team was being compensated no matter what

[Pyser]

maybe you guys are right though. maybe campbell says i only want to negotiate with the 5 teams (who is choosing the teams to trade rights to, the players or the teams?)

then he negotiates with those 5 and works out a deal, never knowing columbus was going to offer him $9m a year for 6 years.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Pyser

maybe you guys are right though. maybe campbell says i only want to negotiate with the 5 teams (who is choosing the teams to trade rights to, the players or the teams?)

then he negotiates with those 5 and works out a deal, never knowing columbus was going to offer him $9m a year for 6 years.

The player totally has a say in this situation. Just last week, there was all that talk about Pittsburgh offering Columbus exclusive rights to negotiate with Ryan Malone. Malone killed the deal when he basically said "I will not sign with any team before July 1. I want to explore all of my options." The prospective deal died right then and there.

[Dr. Sak]

Originally Posted by Logan

Come on, ML is pretty good...he doesn't need this big of a softball.

I want to see how far he hits it.

[Dr. Sak]

Dola.

The final touches are still being worked on and nothing can be formally announced until July 1, but sources tell TSN the Tampa Bay Lightning and superstar centre Vinny Lecavalier have agreed to terms on a mega-deal that will pay him $77 million over nine years.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I generally agree, but there's one piece that's being overlooked that I could see causing problems.

Let's say, for sake of argument, that the Leafs make a deal with the Habs. Montreal can talk to Mats early, but if they sign him the Leafs get a first round pick. (I can't imagine the compensation would be that high, but let's pretend.) That applies even if they sign him after July 1, since they still had a headstart to help get something done.

Then the Rangers say they want to talk to him too. So the Leafs make the same deal with them. And then with the Red Wings. Why not, right?

But meanwhile, Mats Sundin suddenly finds himself talking to all these teams that know they have to give up a pick to sign him. He's not really a "free" agent any more, and in theory he could see his opportunity to get the deal he wants limited because teams are thinking about the compensation. "Sorry Mats, normally we'd say $8M is fair but combined with the draft pick its just too much..."

Is that fair? Would the NHLPA think so?

Isn't that up to the NHLPA to argue? I haven't heard boo from them. Personally I don't see it happening. How do you attract future free agents if you start pushing people around with these exclusive deals? First guy that feels a team (or teams) low-balled him in such a way would cause the rest of the players to just do exactly what Malone did and refuse to talk to anyone prior to July 1.

Which, by the way, is exactly what I would do if I was a player. While I don't see this as a problem for the player, I don't see where he gains either. I'd do exactly what Malone did and start receiving offers from everyone at 12:00 July 1.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

By everything I've read, that's what the deal is. Like I said, I am sure there are some safeguards built into the process. Maybe there aren't any and it's based on trust. Who knows?

I've seen that reported too, although mostly from the Toronto media who are notoriously lazy when it comes to this sort of factual detail.

From the Leafs' perspective, why wouldn't you insist on compensation past July 1? If you don't, then of course the "winning" team would just wait until one minute after the deadline -- it would be a ridiculous move not to.

In any event, the scenario I laid out assume that compensation is a factor past the start of FA.

[Logan]

Marty Straka leaves the Rangers to go play for his old Czech team.

Allow me to be the first to say...WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!