Survivor:Challenge/Common Thread (GAME OVER! FEED BACK WELCOME)

[path12]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Nah he didn't say the names were taken from the ones who volunteered. That was my assumption that this was the first 10 who volunteered.

I'm just trying to clarify to see if I agree with your assumption. So it was just a list of names that you received with no explanation at all? Or was there some kind of description/heading that gives you the basis for the assumption?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

I'm just trying to clarify to see if I agree with your assumption. So it was just a list of names that you received with no explanation at all? Or was there some kind of description/heading that gives you the basis for the assumption?

It was literally called "The List". Nothing about it being the Volunteer list or such.

[SnDvls]

Alan as the head wolf you had to win the challenge so you could make up this info....good lie by the way.

You knew no one could vote for you, but by winning you could get the wolves a leg up as you appear to be down to just 2 wolves ( and I feel I know who the other is now too )

you just assured yourself another day that is all. you took on a great role of overly helpful wolf, your M.O. if I remember correctly and this one is going to bit you now.

[Alan T]

dola, if you're asking if Barkeep said "the wolves are listed below in this list" then no he didn't. But there are times where you have to ask what the most simple explanation is for an event. And Barkeep messing with my mind while fun likely isn't the most likely scenerio.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Alan as the head wolf you had to win the challenge so you could make up this info....good lie by the way.

You knew no one could vote for you, but by winning you could get the wolves a leg up as you appear to be down to just 2 wolves ( and I feel I know who the other is now too )

you just assured yourself another day that is all. you took on a great role of overly helpful wolf, your M.O. if I remember correctly and this one is going to bit you now.

or in other words, I played the same way I do every other game regardless if I am a villager or not?

So this is phase 2 I guess. now that the info is out there, its time for you to try to make the villagers not believe it to give you life. I don't think I believe you when you say there are 2 wolves left either. I honestly think there likely are 3 left.

[Alan T]

Also sndvls, please explain why I would come out with this now when Anxiety was on his way to being voted out based on the numbers of people who are voting for him? If I was the wolf and lying about Anxiety why not just sit back and watch the villagers lynch another villager? That wouldn't make much sense I wouldn't think.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Also sndvls, please explain why I would come out with this now when Anxiety was on his way to being voted out based on the numbers of people who are voting for him? If I was the wolf and lying about Anxiety why not just sit back and watch the villagers lynch another villager? That wouldn't make much sense I wouldn't think.

funny seemed like it was 50/50 between him and swaggs from what was posted by you and others before..guess you did lie.

again good lie on this "list" it will go down as an all time good wolf play

[Lathum]

I gotta be honest I am having a hard time buying alan's list

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I gotta be honest I am having a hard time buying alan's list

Well barring conversions, I'm pretty sure this game rests in the hands of you, Swaggs and Kwhit either believing or not believing the list. I can only give my reasons and what I know. The rest is up to whether you choose to believe Sndvls/Anxiety or me.

[Lathum]

right now I am leaning towards not believing you.

But thanks for clearing me.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

right now I am leaning towards not believing you.

But thanks for clearing me.

I don't believe I have the ability to clear anyone. I have no idea who might be converted. I still stand by my belief that its silly to try to hunt down converted players or such before you remove the Lupus and Helsing wolves.

Even if you don't believe me, go after those wolves first. To do otherwise would be foolish.

I guess you just have to ask yourself.. how hard would this be to get rid of the wolves without being told if they are wolves when they die without some other in game helps. I could have chosen to be selfish (pick the item), or be a teamplayer (pick the list).

I did my part, so if we lose its not my fault

[Lathum]

I just think it would be to convienent for you to replace a name on that list.

[Lathum]

and unless we are both wolves your list clears me

[Alan T]

So basically you are saying you would have preferred for me to not release the list at all, and leave everyone to guessing?

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

So basically you are saying you would have preferred for me to not release the list at all, and leave everyone to guessing?

no, but you are asking us to have blind faith in you and this late in a possible end game scenerio that is asking alot.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

and unless we are both wolves your list clears me

I am guessing it doesn't say anything about Converts. My assumption is this is the list the original wolves were picked from.


Heck it might have just been people who owe Barkeep lunch money.

Either way, I dont have any ability to clear people, just passing along the info that I received. Now it looks like people don't really want my info so I'll stop trying to share and wait to be voted off tommorrow.

Just remember to look back at this "I told you so" moment at the end of the game if you choose to go that path.

[Lathum]

dola- escpecially since there is no way to confirm you are telling the truth after we lynch someone

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

no, but you are asking us to have blind faith in you and this late in a possible end game scenerio that is asking alot.

I actually just got through saying if you don't believe me you still shouldn't be going after Path or hunting down who might be converted.

If you honestly feel I'm a wolf, your only real good vote today is a Lupus member. I'm hoping the villagers believe me as I haven't lied (unless you agree with Sndvls saying my quote of feeling Anxiety/Swaggs was a 50/50 shot is a lie from earlier today but he's just reaching)

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Lathum

dola- escpecially since there is no way to confirm you are telling the truth after we lynch someone

Then lynch me tommorrow and go vote for Kwhit or Swaggs today. Sheesh

I'm not going to make up stories to try to make it any more believable. I asked for "the list" from my reward yesterday and sure enough I got "the list"

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

The more I think about it I am leaning towards anxiety as a wolf. I stated above why I think it can't be kwhit. I am not sold on sndvls and since I know I am not a wolf and I can not vote on Alan Anxiety seems most logical.

Or Swaggs....

[path12]

Was there ever verification that KWhit actually did send his idol over? I thought it was assumed but was it confirmed?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by path12

Was there ever verification that KWhit actually did send his idol over? I thought it was assumed but was it confirmed?

St.cronin confirmed that they received one idol , no one in this thread or the helsing thread disputed it.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've changed my mind a bit how I was going to play today. My apologies to Swaggs for being so rough on him. I just needed a good counterpoint to Anxiety for my ideas.

Basically I chose the list as my reward last night. I assumed my options were either: "The list" which would be some help in finding wolves, or "The item" which would be some protection from wolves. I wanted it to come out like I had no further info than before in hopes it would scare the wolves away from me till the end. I really would like to win it all after all.

I sat and looked at the possible scenerios, and think its probably too dangerous for me to do it this way, so going to explain my actions a bit. This list had 10 players names on it. My assumption is its the first 10 who volunteered when barkeep asked for names and this list is the one the wolves were chosen from (randomly?) I was given the list alphabetically so can't gain anything else from it.

So going into today, I was thinking I was protected from wolf attack last night but not tonight. Now I understand I'm protected for tonight so that helps me even more. Basically my biggest fear is that we haven't gotten the convert and he is out there somewhere.

So here are the names from my list:

Anxiety
Ardent
Blade
Golden
Jonathan
Ntn
Path
Raiders
Schmidty
Tyrith


You can see it has 4 members from Oz (Ardent, Raiders, Goldeneagle, Schmidty), 2 members from Lupus (Blade, Anxiety), 3 members from Howard (Path, Ntndeacon, Jonathan) and only 1 Helsing member (Tyrith who now is Sndvls).

Based off of that, I assume that the Oz wolf was Raiders, Lupus wolf is Anxiety, Helsing wolf is Sndvls and the only one I'm unsure on is Howard as it could be Path or might have been someone else.

I was hoping to hold this info until after this vote to see who might be converted and try to push things a different direction. I guess in my mind though we likely have 3 wolves left, but it could only be 2 possibly. If its 4-3 right now we don't have time for me to try to hunt down possible converts based on their actions today. We have to stay one step ahead of the wolves each day or they control the vote.

So once again today, I feel pretty good about Swaggs and Lathum, Sndvls continues to make me uneasy, and Path I feel good about as well, but that could be dangerous.

Wow that's...unfortunate.


Either this is a wholly made up list, which would be a clever wolf play, or you are just guessing. I hope its the second, but this leads me to make two points, one old and one new.

The old: when volunteers were asked for BK, made it seem that someone from your tribe better volunteer, or else, however the volunteer might get stuck with something icky. Well, I'll be honest. I seriously considered volunteering until I realized that Blade was on my team. Ask for volunteers in a WW game and Blade would be at the front of the line very single time. So I didn;t volunteer because I didn't see the need. Since we've basically sussed out that volunteers were teh wolves, Blade being a wolf makes sense (no one said that there had to be one per group) Lupus may very well have had two!

The new: the seven of us are WW vets. When I started playing a year ago, all six of you had already been playing. We know each other very well, and we also know how to play the wolf. Any two of us (or three is you beleive AlanT) could play a very clever wolf game. Sure, I think JE was a wolf, and RA is to be determined, and I still feel that it was likely that cronin was an Oz convert. However, out of just us seven, I think I honestly begin to fear a group of wolves made up of us. I woulnd;t put many things past any of you.

And that includes fake lists of random ten people, or not being around much, or coming out of the gate swinging and whatnot.

However, her's an additional new thought. The wolves would have wanted to have won yesterday;s challenge, right? They get either an item or a list instead of a villager. it would have behooved them to work together, right?

Which two people got perfect scores yesterday? Swaggs and AlanT.


-Anxiety

[Alan T]

Yes, and if I was a wolf, I'm pretty sure it would have been easier for me to push an agenda if I had just came out and said "Barkeep sent me the list that the following two players were wolves"

He didn't send me a list saying that, I'm just saying what I go, and I'm not a wolf. Other than that you may be exactly right!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Wow that's...unfortunate.

The new: the seven of us are WW vets. When I started playing a year ago, all six of you had already been playing. We know each other very well, and we also know how to play the wolf. Any two of us (or three is you beleive AlanT) could play a very clever wolf game.




-Anxiety

speak for yourself. I have no clue how to play like a wolf...

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yes, and if I was a wolf, I'm pretty sure it would have been easier for me to push an agenda if I had just came out and said "Barkeep sent me the list that the following two players were wolves"

He didn't send me a list saying that, I'm just saying what I go, and I'm not a wolf. Other than that you may be exactly right!

I'm not sur any of us would have fell for that

[Alan T]

Doesn't seem like you're "falling" for the truth either.

Still doesn't make much sense why I would even come out with this if I was a wolf and the majority of people I'm appealing to already are voting Anxiety. If I was a wolf there and trying to get people to vote for Anxiety, I would have just let you and Swaggs and path all vote him on your own and sit back and watch.

Like I said though, I'm not going to make up stuff to try to get you to believe the truth (like some people do in these situations). I had a choice to make and I made it. I feel its much more important for us to get the right people before we fall behind in numbers.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am guessing it doesn't say anything about Converts. My assumption is this is the list the original wolves were picked from.


Heck it might have just been people who owe Barkeep lunch money.

Either way, I dont have any ability to clear people, just passing along the info that I received. Now it looks like people don't really want my info so I'll stop trying to share and wait to be voted off tommorrow.

Just remember to look back at this "I told you so" moment at the end of the game if you choose to go that path.

I don't owe BK any lunch money.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

I don't owe BK any lunch money.

Yes, I'm guessing thats not quite what that list is for as well

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Alan T

St.cronin confirmed that they received one idol , no one in this thread or the helsing thread disputed it.

I totally beleive KWhit passed the idol - AE confirmed receipt of the idol and KWhit confirmed passage of said idol.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Yes, I'm guessing thats not quite what that list is for as well

Maybe its a list of players BK thinks are good WW players?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Maybe its a list of players BK thinks are good WW players?

Possibly!

Well I'm heading out of work. Sent in my vote for Anxiety. Guess we will see what happens back later!

[path12]

FWIW, I don't see what Alan would have to gain by coming out with this list if he was a wolf. I agree that the better strategy in that case would have been to sit back and push for a old Lupus vote (assuming he could steer it to the non-wolf(ves) in that tribe). So I think that the list is likely genuine.

What I am not at all sure is that the assumption that it is the list of the first 10 volunteers and whether or not that means that all the wolves are on the list. I find it pretty tough to believe that there were no wolf votes assigned pre-game and that it all depended on who would volunteer.

The problem with this game is that we've got so little information to work with as opposed to normally. No real voting records, no threads to go back and analyze, nothing. I really feel like this is a day 2-3 vote right now instead of two weeks into the game.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Maybe its a list of players BK thinks are good WW players?

that would explaine why I am not on it

[path12]

I also don't get why Alan says we were all going to vote Anxiety. I feel Abe has given some good analysis in the past couple days. That feels like a push to me.

[path12]

Originally Posted by Lathum

that would explaine why I am not on it

It would also mean I shouldn't be on it.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by path12

I really feel like this is a day 2-3 vote right now instead of two weeks into the game.

I feel the same way. I was thinking earlier any of you could be wolves.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by Lathum

that would explaine why I am not on it

No worries mate, you'd be in my top three list along with hoops and BK himself.

Actually, my top five would include, in order:

hoopsguy
Lathum
BK
Chief Rum (he's new-ish, but he's very insightful)
SnDvls

with Blade a close sixth.


-Anxiety

[Lathum]

thx

[KWhit]

I tend to think that the list is genuine, but I'm not sure.

However, I do NOT think that it was the list of volunteers. I remember the call for volunteers coming right after the Lupus tribe voted out Blade. So there is no way that Blade's name should be on it if it, if that's what it was.

I also don't think that volunteering is what made/didn't make you a wolf. The volunteering happened right before the merger right? I believe that was the point of volunteering. Someone mentioned that after they volunteered they had to do 'something' to help determine the new tribes. Something like picking a number or numbers, something like that.

Who was it that said that? Lathum, maybe?

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

No worries mate, you'd be in my top three list along with hoops and BK himself.

Actually, my top five would include, in order:

hoopsguy
Lathum
BK
Chief Rum (he's new-ish, but he's very insightful)
SnDvls

with Blade a close sixth.


-Anxiety

I'm only on your list...and only because I've played in so many games because I think I really suck at WW....I keep getting killed as the seer on night one and lynched when I'm good (see this game and the current small game)

[Lathum]

I think Kwhit is confusin 2 things.

Early on, night 2 or 3 each tribe was told they need one volunteer and no one could say if they did or didn't volunteer.

Then before the merge each tribe was asked to send one person as a representative. We were asked to submit a list but weren't told why or what the criteria was for the list.

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I think Kwhit is confusin 2 things.

Early on, night 2 or 3 each tribe was told they need one volunteer and no one could say if they did or didn't volunteer.

Then before the merge each tribe was asked to send one person as a representative. We were asked to submit a list but weren't told why or what the criteria was for the list.

Maybe so. I'm referring to the second event. I don't really remember much about the first one you're talking about, but now it does ring a bell (my brain addled from cold medicine isn't helping).

[Lathum]

I think the lack of knowledge about who is a wolf after death has cramped the discussion thus far.

[Abe Sargent]

It being Tuesday night and all, I may not be back for a while. The following post is meant for those thinking about voting for either me or Swaggs. This is why you should consider Swaggs over me:

1). Swaggs and AlanT were tied wtih 7 points each in yesterday's contest, which wolves would have really wanted to win. I only got four points.

2). When voting yesterday, I could have voted KWhit or ITC. KWhit hadn;t showed up for two days, so I voted KWhit because if he wasn;t going to defend himself, I wasn;t going to avoid voting for him. I hadn;t intended on comgin back - this was a couple of hours before the deadline, and I had to do rounds and whatnot. However, I was able to check back in with a few minutes before deadline, see KWhit had logged on and responded, and hopped my vopte to ITC. KWhit is one of the most "cleared" (using that term loosely) people in teh game. If I were really a wolf, I would have left my vote on KWhit, watched him get voted out AND have had a legit reason to have done so. KWhit can verify all of this happened in group

3). My theory behind why no kill last night is that either wolves can only kill the group they are in or they cannot kill while under immunity - so they were prevented from killing. (Note that BK indicates that there was a potential for a night action with his comments.). Either of those theories would mean our group was clean - KWhit and I are not wolves. That means Swaggs must be a wolf by process of elimination.

This is recent stuff, there's stuff that's older, but I figured that you'd want only recent things.

I may or may not be able to check back in before deadline, but I'll try to. For now, and probably for good, my vote is on Swaggs.

-Anxiety

[KWhit]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

2). When voting yesterday, I could have voted KWhit or ITC. KWhit hadn;t showed up for two days, so I voted KWhit because if he wasn;t going to defend himself, I wasn;t going to avoid voting for him. I hadn;t intended on comgin back - this was a couple of hours before the deadline, and I had to do rounds and whatnot. However, I was able to check back in with a few minutes before deadline, see KWhit had logged on and responded, and hopped my vopte to ITC. KWhit is one of the most "cleared" (using that term loosely) people in teh game. If I were really a wolf, I would have left my vote on KWhit, watched him get voted out AND have had a legit reason to have done so. KWhit can verify all of this happened in group

For the record, yes that is what happened last night.

[path12]

I'm not thrilled with an Anxiety vote. I'm looking elsewhere at this point.

[path12]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

funny seemed like it was 50/50 between him and swaggs from what was posted by you and others before..guess you did lie.

again good lie on this "list" it will go down as an all time good wolf play

This statement is bothering me. It smells wolfish.

[path12]

Man it's quiet.

[Abe Sargent]

Came back hoping to see serious discussion and was disappointed to see little. Ah well. I'm not changing my Swaggs vote at this point.