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Old 10-13-2011, 08:42 PM   #3651
Autumn
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All right, well I've already made the point that I don't think I was a good converstoin target. Danny and CF were voting me, I'd made a last second switch onto NTN that could be construed as the classic safe wolf switch.

But let's say I was converted. Day three i vote Zinto up 9-7. Even before that I made clear that I was not going to be voting Thomkal. There was no reason I couldn't have voted Thomkal then, or earlier in the game. Instead I made a decisive vote well before CF and Jackal piled on at the last minute. Zinto was not a dead man at that point, so not a wolf move.

Day 5 I switched around as reveals had happened, but once Sndvls cast doubt on EF, I pushed hard for an EF vote. I switched to Bug at the end to give some space to avoid a tie. The wolves knew there was a triple vote on Bug, so there was no reason for a wolf to move there. I could have just stayed on EF and then been able to say I was voting a wolf, not the seer. I didn't because it didn't make sense (I continue to say) to tie it up there.

Day 6 I went with the tie plan. I was the one who tied it up when Mckerney and Commo didn't go along with it.

Day 8 I suggested leaving mauboy for another night to try to make a block. No way a wolf sticks themselves out there at the end of the day like that rather than just get the BG kill and move on.

I'm sure there's more, but there's some.

Oh also I was public about my items. I told the village what the camphor did, which could have saved a villager who had the same item. I passed a dangerous item to a known wolf to try to kill him.

That's about it righ tnow.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:44 PM   #3652
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dubb93 View Post
Lol, I think I linked several wolves together on D1 in that game. They made a classic wolf mistake and I was the only one who caught it. It earned me a N1 kill.

Heck the night/day I passed you the Sprig of Holly I went back and forth, sending Abe 4 PMs on who to pass it too. I started on you then got really nervous you were possibly a wolf, so I went to jackal with you as a backup, then I got nervous about Jackal and went to Thomakal with you as a backup, finally I just decided on you after your answer to the question although you were answering a different question apparently.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:45 PM   #3653
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J23, why not Commo? You think he's too out there to be a wolf?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:45 PM   #3654
J23
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Ok, so back to my supposed timeline of trying to track down when the conversions happened.

Day 1:
Wolves: Eaglefan, NtnDeacon, Zinto
Village lynches Ntn

Night 1:
Zinto corrupts Narc (or someone else)
SnDvls follows Gram
Wolves NK bhlloy (Found in river eaten - has to be EF's kill)

Day 2:
Wolves: EF, Zinto, Narc/Other
Village lynches Saldana

Night 2:
Wolves NK Lathum (eaten, huge bites out of him - probably EF again.)
SnDvls follows Hoops
Zinto corrupts someone else here? With EF doing the NK's, it's definately possible.
Bug scans Jackal, Danny

Day 3:
Wolves: EF, Zinto, Narc, Other?
SnDvls follows Autumn
Village lynches Zinto

Night 3:
Wolves NK Danny (torn in 3 pieces, consumed - could be EF again)
Bug scans mauboy1
Probably not another conversion w/ Zinto dead.

Day 4:
Wolves: EF, Narc, Other?
SnDvls follows Hoops
Village lynches Raiders Army

Night 4:
Wolves NK Dzilla - (face chewed off, EF?), Crimsonfox - Snapped neck (other wolf)
Bug scans Narcizo

Day 5:
Wolves: EF, Narc, Other?
Village lynches Bug

Night 5:
Wolves NK SnDvls

Day 6:
Wolves: EF, Narc, Other?
Village lynches Narc

Night 6:
Wolves NK Grammaticus
*If EF is the only wolf left, does he nightkill as well as convert here?

Day 7:
Wolves: EF, Other
Village lynches EF, EF kills ChiefRum

Night 7:
Wolves NK Grammaticus

Night 8:
Wolvs NK Hoopsguy

Day 9:
Wolves: Other

Night 9:
Wolves NK Jackal
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:46 PM   #3655
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Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
J23, why not Commo? You think he's too out there to be a wolf?

I suspect with as close to the deadline as we are that J23 could be a wolf waiting until the last minute. He at least isn't going to give us any time to think about his vote, which will likely be damning at this point.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:46 PM   #3656
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Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
J23, why not Commo? You think he's too out there to be a wolf?

Yeah, I don't think he plays this out in the open as a wolf honestly.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:47 PM   #3657
J23
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Vote mckerney

Still enough time for stuff to move around Dubb. BTW, why are you getting the free pass today and asking everyone else to explain why they're bad picks to be lynched tonight?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:47 PM   #3658
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Yeah, I don't think he plays this out in the open as a wolf honestly.

My problem is, who plays this out in the open as a villager? I mean I read back through nearly all of his posts today and I just can't imagine why a villager makes half of them.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:48 PM   #3659
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Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
All right, well I've already made the point that I don't think I was a good converstoin target. Danny and CF were voting me, I'd made a last second switch onto NTN that could be construed as the classic safe wolf switch.

But let's say I was converted. Day three i vote Zinto up 9-7. Even before that I made clear that I was not going to be voting Thomkal. There was no reason I couldn't have voted Thomkal then, or earlier in the game. Instead I made a decisive vote well before CF and Jackal piled on at the last minute. Zinto was not a dead man at that point, so not a wolf move.

Day 5 I switched around as reveals had happened, but once Sndvls cast doubt on EF, I pushed hard for an EF vote. I switched to Bug at the end to give some space to avoid a tie. The wolves knew there was a triple vote on Bug, so there was no reason for a wolf to move there. I could have just stayed on EF and then been able to say I was voting a wolf, not the seer. I didn't because it didn't make sense (I continue to say) to tie it up there.

Day 6 I went with the tie plan. I was the one who tied it up when Mckerney and Commo didn't go along with it.

Day 8 I suggested leaving mauboy for another night to try to make a block. No way a wolf sticks themselves out there at the end of the day like that rather than just get the BG kill and move on.

I'm sure there's more, but there's some.

Oh also I was public about my items. I told the village what the camphor did, which could have saved a villager who had the same item. I passed a dangerous item to a known wolf to try to kill him.

That's about it righ tnow.

What makes a good target for conversion? If they had to do all converting in the first two days wouldn't a person voting for NTN be a bad target as everyone was thinking one of them would be converted?

As for Day 5 why did you push hard for EF based on SN who was not willing to say what specifically was too much? When people thought there could be two detectives. Which I'm going to look for now as the first person to bring that up might have been a wolf in a subtle way.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:49 PM   #3660
J23
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The item pass to who he thought might be the lifegiver also makes me steer away from him as a suspect.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:50 PM   #3661
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Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
My problem is, who plays this out in the open as a villager? I mean I read back through nearly all of his posts today and I just can't imagine why a villager makes half of them.

Because I was convinced Bug had been or was possibly converted on his statements. A villager goes after who ever they get a bad read on regardless if it is a wolf or villager.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:51 PM   #3662
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Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier View Post
What makes a good target for conversion? If they had to do all converting in the first two days wouldn't a person voting for NTN be a bad target as everyone was thinking one of them would be converted?

As for Day 5 why did you push hard for EF based on SN who was not willing to say what specifically was too much? When people thought there could be two detectives. Which I'm going to look for now as the first person to bring that up might have been a wolf in a subtle way.

I asked him to clarify, and he did htat, that his PMs had even less detail than EF was giving. Ithink he was trying to avoi getting too metagame by explaining exactly what his PMs were like, which is frowned on around here. But if he found a discrepancy, that was enough for me. It seemed a stretch to think there were two detectives after that idea had already been floated around as an excuse for him.

A good target for a conversion would be someone who's not going to get a lot of attention early in the game. An NTN voter would be great, but not a last minute one who looks like he's piling on.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:51 PM   #3663
J23
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BTW, night 4 was the first time we had the broken neck kill (the double NK night), so the conversion must have happened prior to that, and with Zinto being lynched on day3, we either have 2 wolves left atm or someone was converted on night 1 & 2 both I think (one of which was Narc).
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:52 PM   #3664
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Well, hopefully luck will finally strike with the flame tonight, though I'll be dead tomorrow even if we do so at least I'll get to head over to the gloat thread.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:53 PM   #3665
Autumn
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Originally Posted by J23 View Post
The item pass to who he thought might be the lifegiver also makes me steer away from him as a suspect.

I can see that. But my paranoid part says maybe he's the lifegiver. Or Nrac was the lifegiver. So then why not pass the item for trust. Or maybe he knew that wasn't what it did and so he wasn't worried about it, but thought it might out the lifegiver. To me there's too many outs for that to be a fool proof scenario.

When did that pass happen?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:53 PM   #3666
J23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
A good target for a conversion would be someone who's not going to get a lot of attention early in the game. An NTN voter would be great, but not a last minute one who looks like he's piling on.


I've been thinking about this a lot today, and I don't know that I agree. I think the best conversion target is someone who helps the village a good amount and yet won't be voted for often. That's why I was really wanting to look at your history, but now that I think about it more, Dubb would fit the bill as well.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:53 PM   #3667
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I could definitely see there being two detectives, if there are two of any role, but it lowers EF a little on the trust scale.
Well that person is already dead.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
That's true, but if the seer converted himself, I'm presuming that's what he's seen. If the wolves converted bug, I agree, he would have just seen bug "scanning," or casting a spell or whatever it's supposed to look like.
Hmm, seems you could be thinking Bug is bad there autumn, why push him?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:54 PM   #3668
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Originally Posted by mckerney View Post
Well, hopefully luck will finally strike with the flame tonight, though I'll be dead tomorrow even if we do so at least I'll get to head over to the gloat thread.

Please stop in the "vent" thread first ... that "gloat" thread is having a negative impact on my plans for the "vent" thread to top 10,000 posts.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:54 PM   #3669
J23
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What's our vote count btw?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:55 PM   #3670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Autumn View Post
I asked him to clarify, and he did htat, that his PMs had even less detail than EF was giving. Ithink he was trying to avoi getting too metagame by explaining exactly what his PMs were like, which is frowned on around here. But if he found a discrepancy, that was enough for me. It seemed a stretch to think there were two detectives after that idea had already been floated around as an excuse for him.

A good target for a conversion would be someone who's not going to get a lot of attention early in the game. An NTN voter would be great, but not a last minute one who looks like he's piling on.

Yeah "seeing nothing suspicious" is way too much info. That is all SN ever got as he said he never saw anything, but wouldn't ever say why those three words were too much.

Unvote McKerney
Vote Autumn

To see what happens
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:55 PM   #3671
Autumn
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Well that person is already dead.


Hmm, seems you could be thinking Bug is bad there autumn, why push him?

I'm not sure what yo'ure asking. I think I was saying that it seems unlikely that if you watched the target of the conversion that you would see a conversion. YOu would just see what that target did.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:55 PM   #3672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J23 View Post
What's our vote count btw?

McKearney 2 - Commo, Dubb
Commo 2 - Mckerney, Autumn
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Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:56 PM   #3673
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I think votes are

2 McKerney - J23, Dubb
2 Commo - Autumn, McKerney
1 Autum - Commo
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:56 PM   #3674
Autumn
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Yeah "seeing nothing suspicious" is way too much info. That is all SN ever got as he said he never saw anything, but wouldn't ever say why those three words were too much.

Yes, maybe it was too much. Sndvls was the detective, and EF was the wolf, so obviously Sndvls was right, right?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:56 PM   #3675
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I voted McKerney above Dubb, so it's now 2-2-1 apparently.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #3676
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Vote mckerney

Still enough time for stuff to move around Dubb. BTW, why are you getting the free pass today and asking everyone else to explain why they're bad picks to be lynched tonight?

As I said earlier. B/C I'm awesome.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #3677
Autumn
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Ties would be bad with one wolf left.

unvote commo
vote mckerney
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #3678
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Unvote Commo
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:57 PM   #3679
dubb93
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What a mess.
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Because you know it takes sound strategy to get killed repeatedly on day one right?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #3680
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I'm not sure what yo'ure asking. I think I was saying that it seems unlikely that if you watched the target of the conversion that you would see a conversion. YOu would just see what that target did.

Saying that you were not sold on Bug, which is my point. Very few people were, even the BG knew there was a wolf and still voted for Bug. My making arguments against him was not just me but most people feeling something off.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #3681
Autumn
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Well maybe not. Tie?
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #3682
mckerney
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Not gonna cause a tie here, if I move the vote off of me onto another villager then I probably end up getting lynched tomorrow and that won't do us any good, better I just go down then.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #3683
Autumn
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Saying that you were not sold on Bug, which is my point. Very few people were, even the BG knew there was a wolf and still voted for Bug. My making arguments against him was not just me but most people feeling something off.

Yes, I have never stated you were the only one who didn't believe Bug. HE got lynched after all.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:58 PM   #3684
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3 McKerney - J23, Dubb, autumn
1 Autum - Commo
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:59 PM   #3685
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Vote Bek
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:59 PM   #3686
Commo_Soldier
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One minute left
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:00 PM   #3687
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Time?
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:00 PM   #3688
Autumn
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Suddenly coming at me once a couple other people say they're wondering about me seems pretty suspect Commo. It seems to me you're setting the scene for tomorrow, knowing Mckerney's not bad. You had all day to suspect me, or ask me about Sndvls, or whatever you want.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:00 PM   #3689
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It'd be nice to catch a break from the flame if we're wrong.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:00 PM   #3690
Abe Sargent
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That is time folkses
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:00 PM   #3691
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Come on flame...
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:01 PM   #3692
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Well, anxious to see what happens as I now am not sure on if it is Autumn or McKerney, but surprised I started off with Autumn as my least likely and ended up as most.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:02 PM   #3693
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Suddenly coming at me once a couple other people say they're wondering about me seems pretty suspect Commo. It seems to me you're setting the scene for tomorrow, knowing Mckerney's not bad. You had all day to suspect me, or ask me about Sndvls, or whatever you want.

I was on my phone and working, not really all day. As for Mckerney who knows if he is good or bad, are you saying you do?
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:02 PM   #3694
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Well, anxious to see what happens as I now am not sure on if it is Autumn or McKerney, but surprised I started off with Autumn as my least likely and ended up as most.

You threw your vote away on a day when there were potentially 2 wolves out there. You aren't a villager. You just made that clear. I just hope it didn't win you the game. You get no more passes from me. If you are a villager then you will have dug your own grave.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:02 PM   #3695
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I was on my phone and working, not really all day. As for Mckerney who knows if he is good or bad, are you saying you do?

I know!
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:03 PM   #3696
Autumn
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I was on my phone and working, not really all day. As for Mckerney who knows if he is good or bad, are you saying you do?

I'm saying it certainly seems like you do. Or you just thought you could get a move to more more likely than a move to him.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:03 PM   #3697
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He's good.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:03 PM   #3698
Commo_Soldier
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At a 20% chance of every villager missing the flame if you're good McKerney and don't survive.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:04 PM   #3699
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You threw your vote away on a day when there were potentially 2 wolves out there. You aren't a villager. You just made that clear. I just hope it didn't win you the game. You get no more passes from me. If you are a villager then you will have dug your own grave.

Threw it away? I was hoping others would go to Autumn, otherwise it would be all 4 people that voted going for autumn.
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Old 10-13-2011, 09:04 PM   #3700
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I was on my phone and working, not really all day. As for Mckerney who knows if he is good or bad, are you saying you do?

I think you could have come up with a time to vote me before five minutes left. Five minutes left on what could be a game deciding lynch, that's not a good time to pull a new vote out of your hat.
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