WW LXV-- Enter the CUBICLE (GAME OVER! See Post #1625 For Final Game Post)

[ntndeacon]

question do we know if the fish knows he is a fish? or is it given to an ordinary worker, without thier knowledge?

[Mr. Wednesday]

I figure my vote doesn't count for much either way with the stampede on bsak, so I'll let it stand on Passacaglia as a continuing statement.

[ntndeacon]

I plan on voting with you tomorrow, Mr. Wednesday

[Chief Rum]

Deadline

[Chief Rum]

Day 5 Final Count

bsak16 (9)-- path12 (1135), Lathum (1138), Render (1182), Passacaglia (1185), oliegirl (1186), Alan T (1189), The Jackal (1195), Schmidty (1198), ntndeacon (1200)
Lathum (1)-- bsak16 (1136)
Passacaglia (1)-- Mr. Wednesday (1166)

Not Voted: claphamsa, jeheinz72

[Chief Rum]

Short and sweet today, guys. I have to get ready for work.

Bsak16 has been FIRED! He was a WOLF (The Crew)!

Shortly afterwards...

Lathum was FIRED by wolf influence! He was The Veteran!

Today is an all-day workday for me, as noted. From now forward, please reach me at [email protected] until 3:30 p.m. PDT, after which just send it here, and I will get back to you when I return late tonight.

Deadline is 10 P.M. EST/7 A.M. PDT (still). I will process the day when I return around 2-3 hours later.

[Chief Rum]

Role PMs have been sent.

Today is a WOLF vs WOLF day!

[Alan T]

Nothing really changes my opinion from yesterday about who to vote for. Obviously Lathum made a reveal and like 4-5 people all voted with him at the same time. I actually didn't think bsak was a wolf, so am a little suprised this morning. I guess I'll have to wait till after the game for someone to explain what happened the previous night between bsak and lathum.

So bsak being a crew either means there are 4 wolves per side, or I'll have to re-evaluate my thoughts on a couple of people I felt could possibly be a wolf.

One question Chief before you go, if the fish is converted, and then killed do they show up as a wolf or a fish? Maybe Lathum was right that bsak was the fish afterall.

Either way, I notice mr.w still didn't vote for bsak, which once again has him voting in the interests of the crew. (Farrah, fink, bsak) even though it didn't matter for this vote. I still don't think its a good idea to go after him today. I'm sticking with my vote from yesterday for the same reasons I've given the past three days.

Vote Passacaglia

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I'm sticking with my vote from yesterday

Of course you are.

[jeheinz72]

Oy, sorry for not getting a vote in over the weekend. Got some bad news that made me basically ignore getting online.

Chief, is there any penalty for not voting? Just want to be sure before I get goin' too much.

Got caught up on the thread for the most part (gotta admit there was some skimmage). So are we thinking that there were FOUR wolves per side? If so that's insane. Or would we just not know that one side has been killed off? That really impacts how I'll vote tonight, though I think either way we need to see what we can do to get a cougar today.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

There's this idea that some players have that a vote should be "close." I'm not exactly against the idea, I just think sometimes its overrated.

Originally Posted by Alan T

I like the idea of a vote being close because it causes people to commit themselves for someone.. There are people who haven't voted yet, or might move their vote.. are they willing to put themselves on the line to save Render and condemn Fink, or save Fink and condemn Render, or go somewhere else and risk people claiming they were throwing away their vote to hide. It puts a bigger spotlight on people's reasons for what they do. If the vote is 8-3 or something, no one is going to risk anything really and you don't really gain anything.

I already have my suspicions on a few people from how Lathum escaped the lynch yesterday, I'll be interested to see how they play a part of today's vote which is possible because of how close it is. We can then start drawing lines to connect certain people based on those actions.

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

heh, you said that to someone with their vote on Farrah

I was looking for where Alan first started planting the seeds of his case against me -- this is post 486, 494, and 499. I don't think Alan was intending to go after me at this point, but I think he was waiting to see what would happen in the RendeR/fink vote, not really caring if a wolf or villager went (assuming RendeR is a villager). I also wonder if Alan had realized that cronin might have scanned Farrah the day before everyone else did, and that's why cronin died -- the team opposite Farrah killed him, in hopes of exposing Farrah as a wolf. And when I took the bait, Alan was there to start the campaign to "even the score" by pushing me.

[Passacaglia]

Oh, heh, and by the way....

VOTE ALAN T

[Lathum]

I love being right. ( I knew bsak smelled funny, allthough I have zero knowledge if he was the fish or a wolf from the start)

GL guys, at least something good came from my death.

[The Jackal]

Here's the situation, as far as I can tell.

If each faction had three wolves, there are two cougars left (+ possible fish)

If each faction had four wolves, there are three cougars, one crew, and the possibility of the fish.

So, it's a wolf vs wolf day. Does that mean there is definitely one member of the crew left? Will we know if we eliminate one of the factions entirely?

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I'd like to know if we find out when one group is gone.

[The Jackal]

ps claphamsa has been unusually quiet in this game

[ntndeacon]

Vote Pass

He has been someone of note for the last few days.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by ntndeacon

Vote Pass

He has been someone of note for the last few days.

I wish you would put a bit more thought into it than that.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I wish you would put a bit more thought into it than that.

OK - why should we not vote for you? Save me the trouble of going through pages and pages of posts...tell me why a vote on you is wrong at this point...something other than "I'm a regular worker". And who do you think we should be voting for tonight?

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T
Just got home, sorry I've been gone all day since this morning. I don't really have alot to add from yesterday though, since we didn't really learn alot from this vote today.

I'm going to continue on my train of thought though. I have a really hard time believing of the group who voted off both Fink and Farrah that Sndvls was the only wolf, so think either both The Jackal and Passacaglia are wolves, or I have a 50/50 chance of getting one of them.

Deciding between the two, I have my thoughts about the jackal that I brought up yesterday stating how Jeheinz was pretty solid after him, and Jeheinz seems to come across as a member of Farrah/Fink's team so far based on what I put together last night. To balance that though, I feel even stronger about Mr.Wednesday's being a part of Farrah/Fink's team and he seems pretty strong after Passacaglia today.

To couple that with Arles also being pretty strong after Passacaglia, I'm going to go there with my vote, I feel I have a better chance of him being a wolf than The Jackal (unless both are wolves) at this point.

Want to get this in before the weekend. It is my weekend with the girls, so I have to drive a few hours to Connecticut on Sunday and I'm not sure if I'll get back tommorrow night or not.

Vote Passacaglia

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

So here's what struck me about your post: You suspected JE as coming across as a member of the Farrah/fink team. That struck me as odd immediately, since I thought he voted FOR both Farrah and fink. I went back and did some digging, and it he put the first vote in for fink. He didn't vote for Farrah, but he talked about it a lot. Plus, he voted WITH Farrah on Day 1 -- both of them voted for The Jackal. I could see all this evidence pointing either way.

But this made me take notice of your voting history, Alan. You had the 3rd vote on Farrah, and the post in which you voted seemed to indicate that you were already setting someone else up to take the fall. Post #750:

At this time, there were only two villagers with votes on Farrah -- me and my sidekick mau. Your vote for Farrah made it 3 to a couple 1s, and things just sort of snowballed. I think it's strange how you make it seem like you're defending Farrah, while you're actually helping kill her -- if you look like you're defending her, you avoid suspicion when we come after the other team, which appeared to be me and mau. Then the coup de grace -- Arles dies overnight, my biggest accuser. I think things are pointing to me a little too neatly, and artificially so.

olie, this is post 1131 by me (with some bad formatting as I tried to get the post I was replying to in there). I think it might have got lost in the weekend shuffle, but I think it answers your questions.

[Passacaglia]

Quote:
As for where you try to divert attention from yourself back to me about my vote for Farrah.. you really have to make up your mind whether you want to argue that I was defending her or trying to kill her.. you can't honestly try to argue both here. Once again anyone who wants can go back to the arguement that morning.. Your arguement was that we need to kill Farrah ASAP.. My arguement was that I thought both her as well as some of your group (You, Mau, the Jackal) were wolves and that I didn't want to see one team far ahead of the other. I got frustrated that absolutely no one other than Arles has been siding with me on that though this game and changed to kill Farrah. I still stand by what I said though, I'm happy we're killing wolves, but everyone is going to come back and have to admit I was right at some point if we get stuck behind the 8-ball with one team eliminated and no sure clues where to go for the other team.

Sorry Alan, I should have been more clear in my argument. I wasn't trying to argue both that you were defending her and trying to kill her -- I was arguing that you were trying to kill her, while making it seem to us like you were defending her. You put in the vote, knowing a bandwagon would ensue (because she had been scanned), but did it in a way to try to make it seem like you're not on the team against her.NOW you say you thought that her as well as some of me, mau, and The Jackal were wolves, but that's why I quoted your post earlier. You said:

"*shrug* Fine.. Since everyone is so sure she's a wolf. I am amazed at how much information you all get as villagers, since I must have missed the interoffice memo."

You're not exactly brimming with confidence here. To your credit, you warned against killing two wolves from the same team, but you made sure to make it seem like you weren't the one against them. But why all the hesitation, and the implication that the people accusing Farrah had some kind of inside information? I told you why I thought Farrah was a wolf -- the seer put in a vote for her first thing in the morning. I mentioned how he plays as the seer in the Willy Wonka game -- did you go back to look at that? I saw that you were in that game, but maybe I remember it more than you, since I was pretty hard on him for voting saldana first thing in the morning two days in a row like that.

And yes, no one other than Arles had been siding with you, mostly because of mau's play. If he hadn't lied to me, then came out with a fake reveal, I'm sure it would have been a close race between the two of us. As it was, when mau came up good, Arles was definitely not going to be the only person on your side -- I'm sure a few others here would agree that they were already thinking yesterday that if mau came up good, they'd look at me (in fact, if I recall, a few might have mentioned it -- I'll look if you want). But none so much as Arles. His death seems like an attempt to make me look more wolfish, to finish me off.

This is Alan pushing me further (post 1148), followed by my response (post 1149). I voted Alan yesterday, until Lathum's reveal caugh bsak for us, then I voted for him today as well, and that's where I think you should vote.

[oliegirl]

Thanks Pass...I'm not ready to put a vote in yet, need to think on some things...

AlanT, any response/defense to what Pass has posted?

[jeheinz72]

I'm not really liking either of the two leaders here at this point (Alan or Pass), and Jackal raises a good point about someone who has just been bothering me with his lack of even his typical mindless posts...

Vote Claphamsa

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Thanks Pass...I'm not ready to put a vote in yet, need to think on some things...

AlanT, any response/defense to what Pass has posted?

No problem. If there's anything you want to ask based on it, I'm around.

[jeheinz72]

Yeah I'd like to hear what Alan has to say about that. It's tough for me missing out on the timing of things to see what Lathum's reveal really interrupted...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I didn't see people suddenly jump to kill Path earlier because of Barkeep's death, I don't think I've seen anyone yet say Arles was killed, he must have been right about Pass and that is proof! You are the only one who seems to be arguing that right now.

I am guessing Arles was killed simply because he was the only semi-cleared villager that everyone trusted. The fact that he agreed with me and would have voted with me is just plain inconvienant for me today.

Here's post 1150, in reply to the stuff I said.

[Passacaglia]

(for those of you asking for his response)

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by The Jackal

ps claphamsa has been unusually quiet in this game

jerk! I havent been quiet I was in NY all weekend!

And I thought I voted.... opppes

[jeheinz72]

Oh that's right clap, I did see that note about you being in NY now that I think about it. Nevermind..

Unvote Claphamsa

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I'm not really liking either of the two leaders here at this point (Alan or Pass), and Jackal raises a good point about someone who has just been bothering me with his lack of even his typical mindless posts...

Vote Claphamsa

ok i just fgot back from NYC. God that city is filthy!!!!

And if somoene couted, I am cruising along with my mindless post count as usual!

That being said both Heinze and jackall have comented on this, which means
A they are setting me up (both cougars)
B they havent read the thread!

No one seems to have put any heat on either of them!

vote jackall

[claphamsa]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

Oh that's right clap, I did see that note about you being in NY now that I think about it. Nevermind..

Unvote Claphamsa

ggrr, now i feel bad for calling you out!

still think jackall might be bad, he hasnt said anythign. and thats not him.

what do yout hink hainze?

[jeheinz72]

I guess I can't help but think about the group of people that I don't think is really talking and wonder "Ok, if there might be 4 wolves, then surely some are hiding in the tumbleweeds too"

This group meaning Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, NTN...

I'm leaning towards a vote in that direction today.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by jeheinz72

I guess I can't help but think about the group of people that I don't think is really talking and wonder "Ok, if there might be 4 wolves, then surely some are hiding in the tumbleweeds too"

This group meaning Mr. Wednesday, Schmidty, NTN...

I'm leaning towards a vote in that direction today.

NTN has been the one of this group that has stood out to me...I'm currently debating on if I want to vote for Pass, AlanT, or NTN, just having a very difficult time deciding where my vote should go...

[Alan T]

I am not quite sure what there is for me to respond that Passacaglia has been trying to push off on me. I'm not actually sure what his reason for me being a wolf is. I was around the entire time Fink was on the line and could have moved my vote in a way that likely would have saved him (when he was up by 1 vote already, and only Schmidty left to vote before people flipped their votes around at the deadline), I likewise could have moved my vote in a way to condemn him there as well.

The difference being, I didn't know enough about either Render or Fink that day to make the call, and chose instead to watch where people committed themselves (as Pass even quoted some of that dialogue even though he left out other posts). On that day you saw some make moves to condemn Fink (Such as Sndvls, Passacaglia and mauboy) and others make moves to try to save him (such as Mr.Wednesday and Farrah). We have since learned that Sndvls and Farrah were bad, mauboy is good and the jury is still out on Passacaglia and mr.W.

The next day my arguement was that I felt it likely that Farrah and Mr.W were both wolves but on the same side as Fink, I felt we should try to balance up the sides and go after one of the guys who were heavily responsible for Fink's death, as those were highly probably choices of the opposite team's wolves. The people who conversed all seemed pretty opposed to the idea and just wanted to get any wolf they could, to which I said fine, and went that way while strongly saying that I think it would be a mistake that at the end of the game people would come back and agree with me on. I made the vote on Farrah that passacaglia described as "starting" the run on Farrah at that time even though I wasn't the one pushing Farrah for the lynch that day, even though I stated I felt she was a wolf, I wanted to go after the other team.

For the record, I was not the only one stating this point. Arles pretty much sided with me completely and made alot of the same cases about the same people. The main difference between Arles and myself was that Arles argued that he felt Path was his #1 wolf choice followed by Passacaglia, while I felt Pass was my #1 after the way he responded following Fink's death.

I guess the bottom line is that every step along the way, we still have been unable to push into the block of people who seemed to side with Sndvls (like Passacaglia), and unless there is another reveal today to make me change my mind, I would like to see what Passacaglia's allegience is.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by claphamsa

ggrr, now i feel bad for calling you out!

still think jackall might be bad, he hasnt said anythign. and thats not him.

what do yout hink hainze?

Something is definitely up with Jackal. Not sure I can put my finger on it. I actually haven't played with him much (we both ran like all the games at TSW for awhile so we rarely both played, if ever)

I could entertain that thought.

[jeheinz72]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

NTN has been the one of this group that has stood out to me...I'm currently debating on if I want to vote for Pass, AlanT, or NTN, just having a very difficult time deciding where my vote should go...

For some reason I'm getting a good vibe off of you olie. I could see voting NTN if you do. The others I'm just too confused by, I can't sort out fact from fiction in their arguments since I was gone for so long.

[Alan T]

Dola, and Pass is trying really hard to turn this into a Pass vs Alan arguement. Remember I'm not the only one that has been arguing these things about Pass for days. He just doesn't have much room to stand on pushing it back on Arles since its known that Arles was good, so I'm the only one he has left to strike back at. I don't have any desire to get in a pissing contest here.. heck I might be wrong about Pass too.. I'll let everyone vote how they think is best. I've done so and likely will keep my vote here. There are others who I feel have been just as fishy as Pass this game, but both have done so along the lines of Farrah/Fink/bsak's team and I'm more interested in finding Sndvls's allies at this point.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Dola, and Pass is trying really hard to turn this into a Pass vs Alan arguement. Remember I'm not the only one that has been arguing these things about Pass for days. He just doesn't have much room to stand on pushing it back on Arles since its known that Arles was good, so I'm the only one he has left to strike back at. I don't have any desire to get in a pissing contest here.. heck I might be wrong about Pass too.. I'll let everyone vote how they think is best. I've done so and likely will keep my vote here. There are others who I feel have been just as fishy as Pass this game, but both have done so along the lines of Farrah/Fink/bsak's team and I'm more interested in finding Sndvls's allies at this point.

I disagree that I'm trying really hard to turn this into a Pass vs. Alan argument. You're the one who voted for me. If you get off my back, I'm less likely to go after you. After all, my whole argument is predicated on the fact that you're trying to kill a villager.

Yes, you're not the only one arguing about me -- generally the wolves are a little more organized in their arguments.

I don't know exactly what you mean about pushing it back on Arles, but most of Arles actual analysis linked me with mauboy, and his decision to go after me was pretty much a coin flip based on his scan showing mauboy as good -- a scan which we know was random. For those of us that have played a lot, we know that's a red herring.

By the way, it's quite gracious of you to let everyone vote how they think is best! We are all very grateful for your permission!

[Alan T]

You can knock off the sarcasm at any time. It doesn't make me feel you are any less innocent.

[Alan T]

guess I mean it doesn't make me feel you are any less or more likely to be a wolf. It's just dumb. I hate when I try to make analysis and people turn it into personal attacks.

I'm out for a while

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I am not quite sure what there is for me to respond that Passacaglia has been trying to push off on me. I'm not actually sure what his reason for me being a wolf is. I was around the entire time Fink was on the line and could have moved my vote in a way that likely would have saved him (when he was up by 1 vote already, and only Schmidty left to vote before people flipped their votes around at the deadline), I likewise could have moved my vote in a way to condemn him there as well.

Sorry if I'm being difficult to understand. Is anyone else having trouble understanding my reason that Alan is a wolf, or is it just him? Yes, you were around the entire time fink was on the line -- but I think at that point in the game, a wolf on the opposite team from him would be equally happy lynching a villager or an opposing wolf. You didn't have your vote on either one of them. That was the day that you said to cronin that you like to keep it close, so we can see where allegiances lie. Your lie with...someone so insignificant I don't even remember who it is.

Originally Posted by Alan T

The difference being, I didn't know enough about either Render or Fink that day to make the call, and chose instead to watch where people committed themselves (as Pass even quoted some of that dialogue even though he left out other posts). On that day you saw some make moves to condemn Fink (Such as Sndvls, Passacaglia and mauboy) and others make moves to try to save him (such as Mr.Wednesday and Farrah). We have since learned that Sndvls and Farrah were bad, mauboy is good and the jury is still out on Passacaglia and mr.W.

I think you meant that you didn't CARE enough about either RendeR or Fink to make the call. So you avoided it like the plague. I'm sorry if I left out posts -- if you feel like I misrepresented something about the way things happened, please let me know.

The next day my arguement was that I felt it likely that Farrah and Mr.W were both wolves but on the same side as Fink, I felt we should try to balance up the sides and go after one of the guys who were heavily responsible for Fink's death, as those were highly probably choices of the opposite team's wolves. The people who conversed all seemed pretty opposed to the idea and just wanted to get any wolf they could, to which I said fine, and went that way while strongly saying that I think it would be a mistake that at the end of the game people would come back and agree with me on. I made the vote on Farrah that passacaglia described as "starting" the run on Farrah at that time even though I wasn't the one pushing Farrah for the lynch that day, even though I stated I felt she was a wolf, I wanted to go after the other team.

Part of your agument was that Farrah was likely on the same side as fink, but part of it seemed skeptical of the whole thing -- I've quoted that post a couple times. And I don't think I ever said that you "started" the run on Farrah -- I said that your vote was the one that finished her.

Originally Posted by Alan T

For the record, I was not the only one stating this point. Arles pretty much sided with me completely and made alot of the same cases about the same people. The main difference between Arles and myself was that Arles argued that he felt Path was his #1 wolf choice followed by Passacaglia, while I felt Pass was my #1 after the way he responded following Fink's death.

Yes, and Arles is gone now. Like I've said before, I think that does more to push blame on me, and I think that was the design.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

You can knock off the sarcasm at any time. It doesn't make me feel you are any less innocent.

Sorry if the sarcasm came off as rude -- I was actually jut kidding around there.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Alan T

guess I mean it doesn't make me feel you are any less or more likely to be a wolf. It's just dumb. I hate when I try to make analysis and people turn it into personal attacks.

I'm out for a while

Again, I really didn't mean to make into a personal attack. Sorry if it came out that way -- if it's about the "permission" comment, I was just poking a little fun at your phrasing. No offense was meant.

[The Jackal]

Sorry clap, I missed that post. And I never actually voted for you...

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Sorry if I'm being difficult to understand. Is anyone else having trouble understanding my reason that Alan is a wolf, or is it just him?

Oh, if you're referring to this part, Alan, that wasn't sarcasm. I was actually asking if other people are having trouble understanding me -- I find that in communication, I often don't come across as clear as I would like.

[path12]

I'm not sure I'm going to try and figure out the Pass/Alan thing right now. I can't figure out if they are both good (least likely to my mind), one good and one bad (also a little less likely because why would whichever was the wolf be pushing so hard against the other one?), or both bad (in which case they just might take care of the problem tonight since it's a wolf vs wolf night).

I want to go back and look through the votes of some of the other names that have been bandied around today. I bet we've got a wolf coasting under the radar somewhere.....

[jeheinz72]

I'm going to go ahead and

Vote NTNDeacon

[oliegirl]

I'm still torn on the Pass/AlanT debate, I just don't know what to think. Everything either of them has said could vouch for them being good, or it could be that they are wolves on opposite teams and are trying to off each other. Since I can't decide which of them I trust, I'm going to just go with my gut and vote on someone I know I don't trust at this point...NTNDeacon. He's been way too quiet throughout the whole game, and we are a week into it at this point...he's a good player, but not as "well known" as RendeR/Path/Pass/Alan/Lathum...I'm worried that he's letting them take the heat and battle things out, and he's just laying low and letting them fight while he is behind the scenes.

VOTE NTNDEACON

As always, I'm leaving the option of changing my vote out there, but unless something big goes down, probably won't.

[RendeR]

Frankly, I'm tired of the alan VS Pass argument, they're both wolves as far as I can see. neither has any evidence clearing them and both have enough circumstantial stuff to get votes on the other.

I'm not going to choose between them because then I just look like another wolf out to protect someone. Which I am not.

However, NTN has indeed been totally under the radar this game. Scheduling issues? maybe, just laying low? probably.

Vote NTN

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Oh, if you're referring to this part, Alan, that wasn't sarcasm. I was actually asking if other people are having trouble understanding me -- I find that in communication, I often don't come across as clear as I would like.

Well that is b/c you are a Michigan fan, but in spite of this flaw, we've all learned to accept you as you are and wade through your lengthy and convoluted posts

Just kidding Pass - you know I just like to give you shit every now and then! But deep down you know I love you