The 1981 Offseason thread

[ekcut]

I LOVE Crawford...Just like I love my CF Thomas Ewing... and Crawford is WAY better. High contact and OBP guys with blazing speed....I can't get enough of them!!!
I'm curious of the negotiations in that contract though. I would of waited until the end of season to negotiate. Do it from a position of power...coming off and MVP season (A deserved MVP Season in my opinion) is NOT the time to negotiate. Chances are he wont repeat that dream season, so he probably wouldn't of had such steep demands come September. (Of course he may of balked totally and refused to talk, but in this case I would of risked that)
Better yet, I usually try after seasons 4 and 5...while they are still arb eligable. I go hardest after a season when I think they had an off year. Offer them a long term cheap contract, for him I would of offer a 5 yr $27 mil or so. Sure it eats into his arb years, but long term it is WAY cheaper...don't give him the chance to say 'pay me big or I walk"
Most of the time you can get a deal done like this.

Come September, if he still demands $11mil per, I really would have to evaluate my team to see if I wanted to keep him or not. I probably would not have, unless I had serious cap room, but the best strategy is to not get to that part.

Just some tips...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by muns

See now this is starting to get stupid....

I dont have a problem with the contract so quit twisting my words. If you want to give that guy 11 mil per season and hamper your cap feel free. It just makes my job a lot easier both on the boards when you are complaining about things around here and in the game when you cant get free agents to sign or do contract extensions that you want.

I was explaining and pointing out to you why you cant and havent been able to compete with me and the last time I checked this is what a lot of the conversation around here lately has been about.

DC has won some rings, so why in the heck would I call him out about Paytons contract since he has proven to know what he is doing?? Along the same lines I havent seen him complain about why he cant win in 4 seasons and wants things to change.

You are very much correct on the John Hunt deal, that was stupid and Hunt didnt contribute to the previous owner winning towards the end of that deal, and I think most of us here understood why that owner left. Not really sure why you didnt cut him before our new rule, but I wont even get into that.

Im just trying to help you understand why you havent been where you expect to be. You have talked an awful lot of shit about how you can beat me and how you should be beating me and about packing up and going home if you dont. If you want me to take a look at what our head to head record has been the past 4 seasons ill gladly try to find that for ya, and im sure you can trust its not even near .500 ball on your end and thats including the season you did finish in second.....

I stand by my statement that 11 mil per year on him is just a bad deal. He had a fine season last year i wont contest that, but that is not his norm and has easily been proven by his stats.

As much as I appreciate Alans hard work on win shares, Crawford wont win the MVP this year, feel free to mark it down now. Please name me the last MVP that only hit 4 homers in a season in real life or here.... Its call flawed german programming, and i guess only a few of us can see that???

So you can use your check marks to justify why your spent 11 mil on him all you want, it really is no big deal to me. Just please quit twisting my words, and talking about quitting if you dont do it. It gets old real quick, especailly when I can point out why you havent been able to do it yet....

I for one dont want you to leave, as now its going to be fun watching our teams compete for a long time.

one thing is, for someone who's come in 1st place in a 8 team division - only 8 teams - you seem to have an air about you as if you're some kind of guru. there isn't even any interleague games, so you don't get to face the best of the CL. i wonder how many 1st place finishes you'd have in the RL having to face a Valdosta or a Baltimore team every year. the way this league is set up a very good team will come out on top very easily, so let's not forget that when debating here. don't let the league setting fool (pun intended) you into thinking your multiple 1st place finishes means you know more than i. i've been playing OOTP just as long as the next guy, no one here has magic secrets that give them an advantage over the next guy. don't use your FOOL success, that is, success in such a small unorthodox league, to determine who knows and doesn't know what they're talking about here.

its hard for me to play in a league with such little realism. Hunt was kept cuz when i inherited the team he was under 30 and had sexy ratings, it was reasonable to think he'd eventually put together a monster season. 5 star player, extremely popular. what team in real life would cut someone like that? especially someone who played their entire career with the team. that's like the Astros cutting Lance Berkman. nevermind the fact that Hunt is a lefty playing in a hitter's park geared towards lefty hitters. nevermind that. Luke Crawford was given the extension because he didn't sign my 2 year offer i made earlier in the week. am i going to let the reigning MVP become a free agent, especially when there isn't any other player in the RL that has contributed to his team's win more than him? so if i don't resign him - what other All-Star caliber SS's were available in free agency that i could've replaced him with? in a time when i'm looking to catch the top team in the league, i'm going to allow a player like Crawford to leave? poppycock. if you'd do that then you're a farce.

if we aren't gonna play with any semblence of realism - sign ridiculous contracts, make 10 trades a season and make lopsided deal to boot, cut valuable players coming off an MVP year - if we're gonna do all that then this becomes silly.

[Alan T]

Well, if nothing else I have a feeling tonight is going to be quite electric as people see how everything falls together for various teams.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Well, if nothing else I have a feeling tonight is going to be quite electric as people see how everything falls together for various teams.

Aint' it the truth.

[TimGuru]

Square peg! I command thee to fit in round hole!

*crickets*

Square peg! I have fit numerous square pegs into holes crafted specifcally for them. I see no reason why I can't command thee to fit in yon round hole!


*crickets*

Now, see here, square peg. That round hole is stupid. If we had normal, regular ole square holes around here, I am utterly convinced that you would leap into said square hole and fit nicely.

*crickets*

I'm telling you, square peg. If you continue to lay there and mock me, I...I can't say what I might do. What I'm NOT going to do is look behind me and notice the round pegs that I'm told are there.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by ekcut

I LOVE Crawford...Just like I love my CF Thomas Ewing... and Crawford is WAY better. High contact and OBP guys with blazing speed....I can't get enough of them!!!
I'm curious of the negotiations in that contract though. I would of waited until the end of season to negotiate. Do it from a position of power...coming off and MVP season (A deserved MVP Season in my opinion) is NOT the time to negotiate. Chances are he wont repeat that dream season, so he probably wouldn't of had such steep demands come September. (Of course he may of balked totally and refused to talk, but in this case I would of risked that)
Better yet, I usually try after seasons 4 and 5...while they are still arb eligable. I go hardest after a season when I think they had an off year. Offer them a long term cheap contract, for him I would of offer a 5 yr $27 mil or so. Sure it eats into his arb years, but long term it is WAY cheaper...don't give him the chance to say 'pay me big or I walk"
Most of the time you can get a deal done like this.

Come September, if he still demands $11mil per, I really would have to evaluate my team to see if I wanted to keep him or not. I probably would not have, unless I had serious cap room, but the best strategy is to not get to that part.

Just some tips...

see, you understand. unfortunately for me, and fortunately for Crawford - he had his monster year in a contract year. to me that was very appropriate and realistic (Adrian Beltre, anyone). i just hope Crawford doesn't play like Beltre after getting his big contract. but rest assured, i took a stab at trying to resign him to the deal *i* wanted him to have, but he didn't bite. the league moves too fast to really have any back and forth negotiations so it was either risk letting him walk or give a young guy who contributes a lot to the team what he's asking for.

8 HRs is the number of homers Ichiro Suzuki hit when he won the AL MVP in 2001. don't let the steroid era warp your thinking that the MVP needs to come from a 40 homerun hitting masher. Ozzie Smith came in 2nd in MVP voting in '87 and he hit zero homeruns.

[TimGuru]

Originally Posted by Anthony

one thing is, for someone who's come in 1st place in a 8 team division - only 8 teams - you seem to have an air about you as if you're some kind of guru. there isn't even any interleague games, so you don't get to face the best of the CL. i wonder how many 1st place finishes you'd have in the RL having to face a Valdosta or a Baltimore team every year. the way this league is set up a very good team will come out on top very easily, so let's not forget that when debating here. don't let the league setting fool (pun intended) you into thinking your multiple 1st place finishes means you know more than i. i've been playing OOTP just as long as the next guy, no one here has magic secrets that give them an advantage over the next guy. don't use your FOOL success, that is, success in such a small unorthodox league, to determine who knows and doesn't know what they're talking about here.

its hard for me to play in a league with such little realism. Hunt was kept cuz when i inherited the team he was under 30 and had sexy ratings, it was reasonable to think he'd eventually put together a monster season. 5 star player, extremely popular. what team in real life would cut someone like that? especially someone who played their entire career with the team. that's like the Astros cutting Lance Berkman. nevermind the fact that Hunt is a lefty playing in a hitter's park geared towards lefty hitters. nevermind that. Luke Crawford was given the extension because he didn't sign my 2 year offer i made earlier in the week. am i going to let the reigning MVP become a free agent, especially when there isn't any other player in the RL that has contributed to his team's win more than him? so if i don't resign him - what other All-Star caliber SS's were available in free agency that i could've replaced him with? in a time when i'm looking to catch the top team in the league, i'm going to allow a player like Crawford to leave? poppycock. if you'd do that then you're a farce.

if we aren't gonna play with any semblence of realism - sign ridiculous contracts, make 10 trades a season and make lopsided deal to boot, cut valuable players coming off an MVP year - if we're gonna do all that then this becomes silly.

In other news, for someone who HASN'T come in 1st out of 8, you're an asshole. The only air around here is from your bombastic stink breath proclaiming a bunch of bullshit. I was going to content myself with making fun of you obliquely, but having just re-read this post, I am not going to tolerate it. Muns comes across as incredibly humble, in my opinion, he FREQUENTLY points out that he lost for SIXTEEN YEARS, and attributes some of his current success to luck. Just because he has responded to your venom doesn't make him arrogant.

I do NOT echo muns sentiment that he wants you around. For someone who pontificates about what will and won't keep people interested in this league, YOU are the source of pollution and ill will. F&^* off. Go back to your precious traditional league and take your non-traditional spelling and capitilization with you. "Cuz" its not spelled that way.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

In other news, for someone who HASN'T come in 1st out of 8, you're an asshole. The only air around here is from your bombastic stink breath proclaiming a bunch of bullshit. I was going to content myself with making fun of you obliquely, but having just re-read this post, I am not going to tolerate it. Muns comes across as incredibly humble, in my opinion, he FREQUENTLY points out that he lost for SIXTEEN YEARS, and attributes some of his current success to luck. Just because he has responded to your venom doesn't make him arrogant.

I do NOT echo muns sentiment that he wants you around. For someone who pontificates about what will and won't keep people interested in this league, YOU are the source of pollution and ill will. F&^* off. Go back to your precious traditional league and take your non-traditional spelling and capitilization with you. "Cuz" its not spelled that way.

My smiley is gonna get tired holding this sign all day.

That part about arrogance on Muns part bothered me as well. He has been incredibley willing to help me, has answered any question I have asked him, damn I could go on for a while. Please point out Anthony where Muns has ever acted as if he is a guru. Really, point it out.

You are attacking a class act Anthony, and you should remember times like this when people ignore your trade offers. Personally, I can gurantee I will never do business with you.

[Anthony]

Luke Crawford's rank in 1980:

AVG - #1
Hits - #1
VORP - #1
OBP - #1
2B - #1

ok, he didn't hit a ton of homers, but he's my leadoff hitter, i'm not asking him to give me 30 homers and 100 rbi. those stats illustrated above to me is a valuable player. if i could've paid him less than $11million per i would've. but him making that coin doesn't put me over the cap in any year. worst comes to worst i'll cut Hunt in his last season. this team is in excellent financial shape.

[TimGuru]

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Pike. If he sticks with the league, I am CERTAIN that dealing with him will be helpful to your team at one point or another. If you get my drift.....

[Pike]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Now, I wouldn't go so far as to say that Pike. If he sticks with the league, I am CERTAIN that dealing with him will be helpful to your team at one point or another. If you get my drift.....

lol, yep 10-4 on that man.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Pike

My smiley is gonna get tired holding this sign all day.

That part about arrogance on Muns part bothered me as well. He has been incredibley willing to help me, has answered any question I have asked him, damn I could go on for a while. Please point out Anthony where Muns has ever acted as if he is a guru. Really, point it out.

You are attacking a class act Anthony, and you should remember times like this when people ignore your trade offers. Personally, I can gurantee I will never do business with you.

Muns is da' man. Well liked and respected. I'll back up your contract offer (although I would of waited until september) but I will not for one second back you up on your opinion on Muns...

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Pike

My smiley is gonna get tired holding this sign all day.

That part about arrogance on Muns part bothered me as well. He has been incredibley willing to help me, has answered any question I have asked him, damn I could go on for a while.

You are attacking a class act Anthony, and you should remember times like this when people ignore your trade offers. Personally, I can gurantee I will never do business with you.

we get the point, you agree with tim. you can detach your nose from his anus now.

i wasn't saying muns isn't a class act. only saying it's funny how he uses his accomplishments in this tiny league where he only faces the same 8 teams a year as a way to determine who does and doesn't know what they're talking about. i take offense that he doesn't have a prob with DC's contract to Payton but he has issues with my contract with Crawford, only because DC also has had success in this same tiny league. nevermind that the Payton contract was so absurd we needed to make changes to the rules. but that's ok, cuz DC knows what he's doing.

i stop debating now, there's a season to be played. i'll let the Violators do the talking from this point on.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Anthony

one thing is, for someone who's come in 1st place in a 8 team division - only 8 teams - you seem to have an air about you as if you're some kind of guru. there isn't even any interleague games, so you don't get to face the best of the CL. i wonder how many 1st place finishes you'd have in the RL having to face a Valdosta or a Baltimore team every year. the way this league is set up a very good team will come out on top very easily, so let's not forget that when debating here. don't let the league setting fool (pun intended) you into thinking your multiple 1st place finishes means you know more than i. i've been playing OOTP just as long as the next guy, no one here has magic secrets that give them an advantage over the next guy. don't use your FOOL success, that is, success in such a small unorthodox league, to determine who knows and doesn't know what they're talking about here.

its hard for me to play in a league with such little realism. Hunt was kept cuz when i inherited the team he was under 30 and had sexy ratings, it was reasonable to think he'd eventually put together a monster season. 5 star player, extremely popular. what team in real life would cut someone like that? especially someone who played their entire career with the team. that's like the Astros cutting Lance Berkman. nevermind the fact that Hunt is a lefty playing in a hitter's park geared towards lefty hitters. nevermind that. Luke Crawford was given the extension because he didn't sign my 2 year offer i made earlier in the week. am i going to let the reigning MVP become a free agent, especially when there isn't any other player in the RL that has contributed to his team's win more than him? so if i don't resign him - what other All-Star caliber SS's were available in free agency that i could've replaced him with? in a time when i'm looking to catch the top team in the league, i'm going to allow a player like Crawford to leave? poppycock. if you'd do that then you're a farce.

if we aren't gonna play with any semblence of realism - sign ridiculous contracts, make 10 trades a season and make lopsided deal to boot, cut valuable players coming off an MVP year - if we're gonna do all that then this becomes silly.

Your right, I had the longest streak in the league for consecutive loosing seasons in a row which ive noted in just about every post, but I claim and come off as a guru???

Why is that again? I counter point you and tell you exactly why you havent caught me yet cause you havent stopped bitching about not being competitive in 4 short years....

Ill quit yapping for the time being but im not sure why you started this if you didnt expect someone to try and tell you what the issue with your team is....

my bad i didnt post this fast enough, sorry if some stuff i posted was doubled

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Under five million or short timers.


To back up a few posts,


It may or may not have been muns who got wound up about it, but DC's spending spree and the manner in which it happened were fairly controversial. I suspect he may have intentionally done it to make the financial reforms almost universally palatable. And if you haven't been reading ANY of Pike's posts, the team wasn't exactly left in great shape as a result of the foolish spending.

I wouldn't make signings to make everyone do things or to induce changes. The Payton contract was a bit belligerent, but not to the point of trying to get folks to change the rules. It was to get him to sign with me. Period.

I did it because I was trying to make a run at Hartford and it was the only way I could think to do it with the team I had then and while it fell short, there were moves I was trying to make that fell through that would've made it better, but that's all spilled milk now.

Omar Minaya sold off all of Montreal's prospects to make one last run at the title, not worrying about the future implications of the ballclub and he got rewarded with a gig with one of the biggest clubs in baseball.

Foolish spending? I think that's a big of an overstatement. I had a plan in place and the team would've been okay. But I don't expect any of you to understand how I do what I do or why I do it. That's why we're all different...we all run our teams differently.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Anthony

. nevermind that the Payton contract was so absurd we needed to make changes to the rules. but that's ok, cuz DC knows what he's doing.
.

Just for your edification, wise sir, those rules had been debated for years and advocated by yours truly. But we couldn't get a group together who wanted to change the rules as they were, to how they are now.

That signing spurred enough movement to get the rules to change.

Yes, this is just a tiny league that bears no resemblance to major league baseball in the slightest. That was done on purpose. If folks wanted to play in a slow-cooked MLB clone league, then there are 1000s of leagues out there for them.

There is, however, only 1 FOOL.

Good luck tonight to everyone and enjoy watching the season.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Foolish spending? I think that's a big of an overstatement. I had a plan in place and the team would've been okay. But I don't expect any of you to understand how I do what I do or why I do it. That's why we're all different...we all run our teams differently.

DC, I'm sorry man but it was a little bit foolish in a long term point of view--and no the team wasn't ok afterwards. You've been great to me, as I said, so I don't want bad blood between us. But to say the team would have been ok is not accurate. While we all run our teams differently in your case you were able to leave that team behind and head to greener pastures. I know you are a smart guy in my talks with you, and I think you knew what Chicago was in for. And like I said before, it is to your credit that you were willing to come back and take some of those contracts back.

That said, I think something needs to be put in place so that new owners are protected somewhat from decisions made by their predecessors.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by Anthony

one thing is, for someone who's come in 1st place in a 8 team division - only 8 teams - you seem to have an air about you as if you're some kind of guru.

Originally Posted by Anthony

i have a VERY good eye for building teams, and the year i boasted loudly about the Violators we won 80+ games and came in 2nd, much to the doubt of the other people in this league.

for the rest of the league. big time - here we come. this team is now poised to unseat Hartford for tops in the division. its about time.

and none of the guys i was gonna give you Silver for...excellent non-trade on my part.

Violators got 88 wins, one more than my preseason projection. wanna join me for a nice candlelight dinner - i'm serving crow.

weeeell, considering you're under .500 and the Violators are over .500, i guess i made the better decision in cutting off trade talks. that is, all the guys i wanted that are in your lineup aren't really doing much to make you an over .500 team, now, huh?

yup, my next post was gonna involve trash talk of some sort in your direction. you really missed out on this one. i'm really glad i stuck to my guns in our trade talks. some guys - if i'm gonna move them then i gotta get EXACTLY what i want in the deal, no compromise.

and thanks for the unexpected props, Chief. i've never won a OOTP MP championship in all my years, but due to the unique setup of this league (less amount of teams, like 100 seasons year) i feel rather confident i'll grab more than my fair share of rings. lol

Joe Smith - the guy who was the biggest question mark going into this season, the guy i talked up a storm about, the guy i dropped from #2 in the lineup due to consecutive 150+ strikeout seasons to #5. nice to see that pan out.

and kudos to me for picking up 2B Daniels. i loved his eye and gap ability. i had him way down in the lineup, nice to see he was able to make it happen. now with us picking up that 2B right before the season started...wow, big things going on in Long Island. exciting times. Hartford better relish the taste of champagne, i don't think they'll be tasting it often after this season is over.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by Anthony

i'll let the Violators do the talking from this point on.

They've been doing your talking, or trying to anyway, for years now you stupid sumb'tch.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Square peg! I command thee to fit in round hole!

*crickets*

Square peg! I have fit numerous square pegs into holes crafted specifcally for them. I see no reason why I can't command thee to fit in yon round hole!


*crickets*

Now, see here, square peg. That round hole is stupid. If we had normal, regular ole square holes around here, I am utterly convinced that you would leap into said square hole and fit nicely.

*crickets*

I'm telling you, square peg. If you continue to lay there and mock me, I...I can't say what I might do. What I'm NOT going to do is look behind me and notice the round pegs that I'm told are there.

*dies laughing*

Tim, you are rapidly becoming my favorite poster on these here boards.

That is priceless.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Square peg! I command thee to fit in round hole!

*crickets*

Square peg! I have fit numerous square pegs into holes crafted specifcally for them. I see no reason why I can't command thee to fit in yon round hole!


*crickets*

Now, see here, square peg. That round hole is stupid. If we had normal, regular ole square holes around here, I am utterly convinced that you would leap into said square hole and fit nicely.

*crickets*

I'm telling you, square peg. If you continue to lay there and mock me, I...I can't say what I might do. What I'm NOT going to do is look behind me and notice the round pegs that I'm told are there.

How the hell did I miss this post the 1st time?

A+ lad on sheer origonality!

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Anthony

i stop debating now, there's a season to be played. i'll let the Violators do the talking from this point on.

This is the one thing I think I've seen you say since you came here that I have unreservedly agreed with.

This "who doesn't or doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about and how many rings has it or hasn't it brought them" dick size measurement is wearisome. We all have different ways of running our team. Just as you fairly point out, success here doesn't necessarily equate to success elsewhere. Similarly, success elsewhere means only just this side of shit here.

I came --><-- this close to posting a "let's just shut the hell up and play the games" post last night, but I was too annoyed by the whole discussion to do so in a way that wasn't inflammatory. (And I've had to edit this post a couple times for the same reason). I'm glad to see you say a similar thing.

If you manage to turn your team around, I will salute you and give you the respect you deserve. If it doesn't work out, I sincerely hope that you will give others the respect they deserve and not continue to rant about how unrealistic this league, its managers, and the playoff structure are and how in any other set-up you'd be succeeding.

Now, everyone, can we please put the cocks and the rulers (with apologies to Teach) away, and let the boys play?

[ekcut]

<-------uses yard stick.

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Now, everyone, can we please put the cocks and the rulers (with apologies to Teach) away, and let the boys play?

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by ekcut

<-------uses yard stick.

Over to the smack-talk thread, you!

(When I said "ruler", I meant "Vice Predient Cheney." In order to measure mine, you need to use the biggest Dick going.)

[Pike]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Now, everyone, can we please put the cocks and the rulers (with apologies to Teach) away, and let the boys play?

Well considering I told Alan I would stop oh, about 6 hours ago, yes I suppose its time. But with one this big, man it takes some effort to get it all crammed back in my pants..

---my wife's reaction to that last sentence.

[Alan T]

I have sent a notification to all owners that violated league contract signing rules by offering incentives in the deals. I am sure since the rule change was fairly new that it was a mistake in all cases. Those owners who were notified, please respond to me with your decision before tonight's sim.

Thanks!

[kaosfere]

Annnnnd... I've exported. I know it's going to be another brutal year in the CL, but I'm hoping this will be it for me. Another close #2 or #3 finish is going to get the natives restless...

[allpro10050]

Ann Arbor 2.0 are exported and ready to get there asses kicked.

[TimGuru]

I've exported.

[Pike]

Chicago is locked and loaded for more mediocrity.

[TimGuru]

You know, for people who want more stake in the results of the season and more interest, we should become a relegation league. Finish last and get pitched into AAA. Of course, when the Pooner farm system slapped my team around, I'd continue falling to about A level.