1979 Off-season Thread

[muns]

Originally Posted by TurnerONU22

The Columbus Crusaders have announced 2 new logos for the 1979 season.

Attachment 165

This is the new Crusader logo, which represents a more simpler approach than the first logo, which was introduced in the inaugural 1971 season. This will not replace the current "Crusader" jersey, but will be on a purple 3rd jersey for now.

Attachment 164

This is the alternate logo, which will appear on the ballcap. The ballcap will be purple with a gold bill, opposite of the current colors.

Turner that is a sweet ass logo. Where is everyone getting these?? I might have to take a looksy to see if there might be a better "pooner" logo out there that I can use

[Alan T]

I don't think you should ask for forgiveness for posting that muns. I actually am suprised that people have had success in doing this, since any time I've tried to re-sign free agents (not players with options I turned down to pick up) in that small day-sim period, they almost never sign by the time for FA to begin anyways. I've never used this loophole to decline an option and then try to re-sign them to a cheaper contract, and guess I can understand where you feel that it is shady for people to have done so.. but it probably isn't worth it to get yourself worked up to the point of being unhappy about it.

I think things like this are exactly what the BoD is supposed to be for. Bring up the concern to them as you have done and request a rule change going forth. I can't fault people who have done so because it wasn't against the rules, but if enough people think it shouldn't be done going forth, then there should be enough to vote on the change.

In the end, there are a bunch of ways to do under the table or shady or even downright exploitive things, far worse then this in OOTP. (For instance, I don't know if it is fixed now, but I used to know a way to get a billion dollars of income every season or more by exploiting the system).. I'm hoping we can avoid having to write rules up for every single one of them.. but there obviously will be times when it isn't black and white but instead a grey (such as this issue or the team option thing).. and in those cases it probably is best for the BoD to come to some kind of decision regarding it, and/or a league vote to make sure you can remove the grey.

[muns]

DC I have exported

[TimGuru]

Most online leagues I've been in over the years have explicitly banned incentives (MVP etc) and had strict rules about team options if not outright banning them.

I think many of the financial quirks which apparently exist in OOTP (I've been a customer only since version 7 but I preordered that however long ago that was) aren't really fair to allow to be exploited in an online league. There are several owners in this league who have obviously spend a lot of time simming and testing and what not. This is fine when it gives them an enormous competitive advantage in the realm of player development, roster building etc. I do not think it is fair at all when it is used in financial dealings.

Based on a rough estimate, I would say that at least 25% of this league's GMs are similar to me...very enthusiastic players who do not know nearly everything about all the little ins and outs. Combine that with the frantic pace of the league itself, and I really think it would be wise for the future of the league going forward to have the board of directors consider all kinds of loopholes and causes of dispute, and either (a) ban them explicitly or (b) detail in the Users Guide that one of the new BoD guys proposed writing...and by detail, I mean...THIS is exactly how you use this "feature" if you want to.

I only learned last ST that it was ok to go over the cap until opening day. I still really don't understand OOTP finances and have no real way to estimate whether I can pull a stunt like DC just pulled with letting go high contract guys to make way for others. I don't really understand exactly what happens during the Classic and right after, since frankly it seems to have been handled differently at least one weekend than others.

I think its probably wise of DC to revert to commish only especially if he is feeling the heat and a dwindling of interest. I don't have anything against HIM for what he did, it seems that the seasoned vets concur he didn't really violate any rules, but I do know that I felt a less-informed version of what muns and someone else expressed when I saw that a team with a 62 million dollar payroll had signed 20 something million worth of FAs.

Its impossible to peruse never mind police what is going on in anyone else's team, let alone every one's. I agree with muns that I thought the spirit of this league was good clean fun and I'm surprised to find out that anyone is taking advantage of loopholes, and I really disagree that it was "fair to everyone". There is no way anyone in good conscience can think that me for example, who has routinely asked questions on this board about far simpler matters, could be being treated fairly with loophole exploitation like that going on in dim corners of people's rosters...and again, I'm not saying this to whine, I'm pointing out my relative inexperience and I believe that is shared by others in the league.

Its not going to affect my fun, I still like the league concept and I am learning a lot about player development and minor league management because the pace is fast enough to keep track of my plan for my minors. But I would like to echo muns sentiment that the spirit of good clean fun should really be foremost in all 16 owners minds or the league will have far too many multiparagraph posts and way too much turnover. I saw it happen in a league with "points" awarded for news articles and the exploitation of it by some owners posting multiple incredibly brief articles every sim, and some of this stuff reminds me of that (bad) experience.

[kaosfere]

Man. I don't mean to sound flippant, but some people here are really overthinking a plate of beans.

Does it seem like there's a loophole here? Yes. Should it be fixed? Maybe? Probably?

Do I think anyone has acted with malice and/or bad sportsmanship? No, not as far as I can tell. This game is full of edge cases, and there are many little details, both legitimate and not, that you can twist. Given the variety of rules in online leagues, and the varying level of talent that comes through, it is inevitable that person A will have a bit more knowledge of various technicalities in the game than person B, and will use them to his advantage without considering it "wrong" ... even while person C over there knows about them and doesn't use them.

I honestly think being bitchy about this is uncalled for. An issue was raised. We have discussed it openly. We have some understanding of what it was. Now the board can discuss it between themselves and with the rest of us and try to set down some guidelines.

Calm down, take a step back, give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and let's try to discuss this without accusations and recriminations, eh?

Personally, I don't think we should "do away with" options and bonuses, but perhaps some common sense limits, as applied widely, would be useful here. I do think if we have a rule against a release-and-sign, there should also be one against a void-and-sign, now that we know it's an issue.

But I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Man. I don't mean to sound flippant, but some people here are really overthinking a plate of beans.

Does it seem like there's a loophole here? Yes. Should it be fixed? Maybe? Probably?

Do I think anyone has acted with malice and/or bad sportsmanship? No, not as far as I can tell. This game is full of edge cases, and there are many little details, both legitimate and not, that you can twist. Given the variety of rules in online leagues, and the varying level of talent that comes through, it is inevitable that person A will have a bit more knowledge of various technicalities in the game than person B, and will use them to his advantage without considering it "wrong" ... even while person C over there knows about them and doesn't use them.

I honestly think being bitchy about this is uncalled for. An issue was raised. We have discussed it openly. We have some understanding of what it was. Now the board can discuss it between themselves and with the rest of us and try to set down some guidelines.

Calm down, take a step back, give everyone the benefit of the doubt, and let's try to discuss this without accusations and recriminations, eh?

Personally, I don't think we should "do away with" options and bonuses, but perhaps some common sense limits, as applied widely, would be useful here. I do think if we have a rule against a release-and-sign, there should also be one against a void-and-sign, now that we know it's an issue.

But I'm not pointing fingers at anyone.

FOOL has always been open to concerns of the owners in the league regarding things like this. I don't think it is a good idea for you or others to necessarily discourage people from voicing their thoughts about things. Obviously several different people were upset about it, and I don't feel any of them really stepped over the line in how they expressed their concerns.

Like I said, usually in cases like this it is best to just analyze where the grey area is and try to resolve the issue, while everyone tries to not let the whole situation ruin their fun. It is just a speed bump, and in the grand scheme of things just one thing to look at.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't think it is a good idea for you or others to necessarily discourage people from voicing their thoughts about things.

I was doing no such thing. At least, not intentionally.

I was simply asking people to try not to react strongly to what most of us seem to agree may be an issue, but isn't a huge issue, because that way leads excess stress, not resolution.

That's all.

[TimGuru]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

I honestly think being bitchy about this is uncalled for.

Yes this sort of comment will encourage people to speak up more often. I know I will.

[muns]

Not to cut into the discussion here, but in reading all the posts how the heck do you guys get your teams records and stuff at the bottom of your posts... Im not the most tech savy guy in the world and have no idea how to do that. Any help?

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by muns

Not to cut into the discussion here, but in reading all the posts how the heck do you guys get your teams records and stuff at the bottom of your posts... Im not the most tech savy guy in the world and have no idea how to do that. Any help?

Hit your "User CP" from the link at the top left of the page, and from there click on "Edit Signature". You can then put stuff in there just like a regular posting box.

As for the responses to me above, I just deleted a short-tempered post because I thought better of it the moment I hit submit. Clearly my attempt at peacemaking is just further fanning flames, so I'm going to bow out until tomorrow evening.

[muns]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Hit your "User CP" from the link at the top left of the page, and from there click on "Edit Signature". You can then put stuff in there just like a regular posting box.

Thank ya Kaos

[Ramzavail]

Great logo, Crusaders.

[Young Drachma]

Ok, I'm here and I'm processing times.

It's happy time. Or you know, something.

[Young Drachma]

Nice logos, Turner. I've made the requisite changes in-game already. I love it. Nice use of the Cavs logos for Columbus' purposes.

[Young Drachma]

Everyone but Long Island exported. But he already told us that. Just letting everyone know I got your export.

It's game time.

Good luck.

[Young Drachma]

Friday, December 8th, 1978
Columbus Crusaders: Signed 1B D. William to a minor league contract extension.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed RF S. Anderson to a 4-year contract extension worth a total of $9,960,000.
Brooklyn Brownstones: Signed SP J. Hall to a 1-year contract extension worth a total of $190,000.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed 1B R. Wall to a minor league contract extension.
Thursday, December 7th, 1978
Hartford Harpooners: Signed C W. Hardy to a minor league contract extension.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed CF J. Warren to a 2-year contract extension worth a total of $510,000.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed 2B D. Forrest to a minor league contract extension.
Wednesday, December 6th, 1978
Colorado Rancheros: Signed 3B M. Montoya to a 3-year contract extension worth a total of $1,545,000.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed 3B A. Hashimoto to a minor league contract extension.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed 1B R. Kelly to a minor league contract extension.
Hartford Harpooners: Signed 2B E. Brown to a minor league contract extension.
Monday, December 4th, 1978
Brooklyn Brownstones: Signed SP R. Goodwin to a 2-year contract extension worth a total of $2,200,000.
Brooklyn Brownstones: Signed RF R. McClure to a 2-year contract extension worth a total of $1,500,000.

[muns]

Who all went for Big Mac??

[Young Drachma]

Thursday, December 21st, 1978
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent SP M. Noguchi to a minor league contract.
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent RF M. Rasmussen to a 5-year contract worth a total of $55,950,000.
Tuesday, December 19th, 1978
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent C E. Ash to a minor league contract.
Monday, December 18th, 1978
Valdosta Peanuts: Signed free agent CL R. López to a 3-year contract worth a total of $1,005,000.
Sunday, December 17th, 1978
Rio Grande Roadrunners: Signed free agent CL A. Dailey to a 2-year contract worth a total of $3,730,000.
Friday, December 15th, 1978
New Orleans Wrens: Signed free agent MR M. Lott to a 1-year contract worth a total of $470,000.
New Orleans Wrens: Signed free agent SP N. Praet to a 1-year contract worth a total of $475,000.
Thursday, December 14th, 1978
Colorado Rancheros: Signed free agent LF B. Brown to a 2-year contract worth a total of $1,990,000.
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent CL A. Miller to a minor league contract.
Wednesday, December 13th, 1978
Atlanta Firecrackers: Signed free agent MR A. Snyder to a 2-year contract worth a total of $980,000.
Tuesday, December 12th, 1978
New Orleans Wrens: Signed free agent SP J. White to a 1-year contract worth a total of $510,000.
Monday, December 11th, 1978
Brooklyn Brownstones: Signed free agent 3B J. Scott to a 1-year contract worth a total of $16,000,000.
Valdosta Peanuts: Signed free agent SP T. Tyler to a 1-year contract worth a total of $415,000.
Sunday, December 10th, 1978
Valdosta Peanuts: Signed free agent SP J. Torres to a 3-year contract worth a total of $1,110,000.
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent 1B G. Viveiros to a minor league contract.

[muns]

Originally Posted by muns

Who all went for Big Mac??

lol Well dont I know now you BUM!!!!

[muns]

Brooklyn Brownstones: Signed free agent 3B J. Scott to a 1-year contract worth a total of $16,000,000.

Seems Commo was paying attention to the Salary thingy

[TimGuru]

I'm getting very close to being done with this league. That contract is so unrealistic its obscene.

[Young Drachma]

Friday, December 29th, 1978
Colorado Rancheros: Signed free agent SP M. Primm to a 4-year contract worth a total of $19,500,000.
Rio Grande Roadrunners: Signed free agent CL D. Hawkins to a 2-year contract worth a total of $7,260,000.
Thursday, December 28th, 1978
Rio Grande Roadrunners: Signed free agent MR C. Rouse to a 1-year contract worth a total of $675,000.
Wednesday, December 27th, 1978
San Diego Fathers: Signed free agent 3B J. Higman to a 4-year contract worth a total of $19,120,000.
Tuesday, December 26th, 1978
San Diego Fathers: Signed free agent MR S. McMasters to a 2-year contract worth a total of $3,010,000.
San Diego Fathers: Signed free agent CF T. Fournier to a 7-year contract worth a total of $61,635,000.
Monday, December 25th, 1978
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent CL D. Sandhoff to a minor league contract.
Sunday, December 24th, 1978
Chicago Thunderstorms: Signed free agent SP R. Coronado to a minor league contract.
Saturday, December 23rd, 1978
Colorado Rancheros: Signed free agent RF Z. Eassson to a 3-year contract worth a total of $7,515,000.

[Young Drachma]

Sunday, December 31st, 1978
Brooklyn Brownstones: Signed free agent MR J. Valéncia to a 2-year contract worth a total of $1,125,000.

[Young Drachma]

Monday, January 1st, 1979
SP O. Díaz retires.
RF A. Aguilera retires.
SP M. Crews retires.
SP J. Houde retires.
SP B. Bridges retires.
SP R. Campos retires.
1B J. Guerrero retires.
LF R. López retires.
SP C. Paxton retires.
SP L. Price retires.
SP P. Soto retires.
3B K. Akers retires.
SP A. Ruíz retires.
SP N. López retires.
SP P. Molina retires.
SP W. Harrison retires.
SP J. Sánchez retires.
SP J. Álvarez retires.
SP S. López retires.
3B R. Medina retires.
SP K. Summers retires.
LF S. Matos retires.
1B W. Russell retires.
SP C. McGinnis retires.
RF R. Vallejo retires.
SP J. Castellands retires.
3B J. McCarty retires.
CF M. Larrivée retires.
LF N. Erickson retires.
2B C. Danton retires.
SP C. Marín retires.
RF J. Solís retires.
RF N. Kelly retires.
C R. González retires.
3B J. Ryan retires.
CF D. Core retires.
LF O. Livingstone retires.
SP J. Johnson retires.
SP R. Bradford retires.
SP P. Bravo retires.
SP J. McBride retires.
SP C. Castro retires.
1B M. Finch retires.
SP R. Sánchez retires.
C R. Prieto retires.
2B A. Wagner retires.
SP G. Rogers retires.
SP J. Martínez retires.
SP B. McKenzie retires.
SP M. William retires.
SP J. Lucero retires.
SP D. McGinnity retires.
SP F. Picot retires.
SP D. George retires.
SP R. White retires.
SP R. Harrell retires.
SP M. Palmer retires.
SP W. Kimball retires.
SP J. Berry retires.
CF Á. Delgado retires.
CF S. Molina retires.
SP A. Haas retires.
SP B. Rice retires.
SP J. Warner retires.
CF A. Daniels retires.
SP Á. Chávez retires.
SP J. Ruíz retires.
SP G. Rivera retires.
LF B. Stanford retires.
SP M. Maldonado retires.
C M. Mills retires.
SP R. Dickson retires.
SP Á. Córdova retires.
RF J. González retires.
LF J. Thompson retires.
SP R. Floyd retires.
RF R. Shirley retires.
C M. Corbett retires.
SP M. Edgar retires.
SP P. Jenkins retires.
SS I. González retires.
SP A. Gilbert retires.
RF B. Brown retires.
C J. Contreras retires.
SP H. Hark retires.
SP R. Goode retires.
C J. Jenkins retires.
1B A. Padilla retires.
MR W. Nichols retires.
2B T. Arnold retires.
SP V. Anderson retires.
SP T. Tuttle retires.
3B E. Peoples retires.
2B K. Cole retires.
LF W. Lannigan retires.
LF A. Dorta retires.
1B J. Gibbs retires.
SP L. Myers retires.
SP M. Rodgers retires.
SS B. Glenn retires.
SP A. Aybar retires.
SP J. Gallardo retires.
3B J. Camacho retires.
3B J. Cobb retires.
SP H. Sabre retires.
SP P. Cruz retires.
SP J. Medrano retires.
2B A. Gámez retires.
2B B. Willis retires.
1B M. Paradis retires.
2B G. Díaz retires.
CF M. Akono retires.
SP H. Zheng retires.
SP X. Bradley retires.
SP T. Sabourin retires.
SP M. McLaughlin retires.
SP E. Parrish retires.
RF J. Ramírez retires.
SP V. Cooling retires.
SP D. McDermott retires.
2B M. Lowe retires.
2B J. Gómez retires.
2B J. Marois retires.
SP B. Travis retires.
3B S. Baldwin retires.
2B J. Palmer retires.
SP M. Smith retires.
2B J. Martínez retires.
SP K. Williams retires.
SP R. Frost retires.
SP P. Salinas retires.
RF H. Greene retires.
RF M. Patton retires.
SS S. Krieger retires.
SP J. Whiteside retires.
LF R. Medina retires.
1B K. Key retires.
SP T. Martin retires.
3B P. Torres retires.
SP N. Wallace retires.
3B H. Lim retires.
SP J. Ríos retires.
CF S. Hamada retires.
SS D. Rivera retires.
2B R. López retires.
C D. Caballero retires.
C M. Davis retires.
SP W. Anderson retires.
2B J. Wall retires.
3B S. Duke retires.
C J. Gabriel retires.
SP D. Seddon retires.
SP D. Carter retires.
C P. Hamilton retires.
SP D. Young retires.
RF N. Carlton retires.
SP E. Mattis retires.
3B J. Perales retires.
C R. Delgado retires.
SP J. Márquez retires.
RF S. O'Reilly retires.
2B H. Kal retires.
RF T. Page retires.
SS I. Ward retires.
SP S. Arévalo retires.
2B S. López retires.
2B N. Williams retires.
1B A. Martínez retires.
SP C. Gallardo retires.
LF J. Romero retires.
SP D. Chandler retires.
SS L. Jones retires.
SS E. Bradford retires.
C R. Castro retires.
RF L. Poe retires.
RF M. Gibbs retires.
SP M. Aubin retires.
SP D. Nelson retires.
SP P. Delgado retires.
RF J. Martínez retires.
SP S. Bowling retires.
SP M. Leonard retires.
SP J. Serna retires.
1B J. Deleón retires.
2B J. Zamora retires.
MR D. Briggs retires.
C B. Martínez retires.
1B T. Lara retires.
1B J. Jackson retires.
1B J. López retires.
CF S. Johnson retires.
SP D. Proctor retires.
SP P. Mercier retires.
CF I. García retires.
MR S. Vega retires.
2B P. Johnson retires.
SP J. Rivera retires.
SP H. Sherman retires.
2B S. Anderson retires.
SP J. Richards retires.
SP R. Jones retires.
SP S. Cook retires.
2B D. Beauman retires.
3B J. Villa retires.
LF L. Pérez retires.
SP S. Moore retires.
SP D. Hancock retires.
SP G. Bates retires.
SP J. Bravo retires.
SP P. Bojórquez retires.
RF K. Sugahara retires.
SP R. Austin retires.
3B R. Wilson retires.
SP M. White retires.
RF E. Guerra retires.
RF J. Jaimes retires.
CF I. Nkuku retires.
CF B. Cochran retires.
LF T. Quinn retires.
LF Á. Rodríguez retires.
1B G. McDowell retires.
3B M. Allard retires.
3B D. Carveth retires.
3B J. Campbell retires.
SP A. Barnes retires.
2B R. Numbers retires.
2B A. Rigney retires.
SS P. López retires.
SP R. Mathews retires.
C J. McRob retires.
C J. Jones retires.
2B E. Chamberlain retires.
C A. Torres retires.
MR R. Morales retires.

[muns]

Diaz retires, thats a shame, I wanted him to keep going.....

[Young Drachma]

Saturday, January 20th, 1979
Chicago Thunderstorms: Placed RF M. Rasmussen on the active roster.
Saturday, January 13th, 1979
Colorado Rancheros: Placed SP M. Primm on the active roster.
Colorado Rancheros: Placed LF B. Brown on the active roster.
Colorado Rancheros: Placed RF Z. Eassson on the active roster.
Friday, January 12th, 1979
Atlanta Firecrackers: Placed MR A. Snyder on the active roster.
Thursday, January 11th, 1979
New Orleans Wrens: Placed SP N. Praet on the active roster.
New Orleans Wrens: Placed MR M. Lott on the active roster.
New Orleans Wrens: Placed SP J. White on the active roster.
Wednesday, January 10th, 1979
San Diego Fathers: Placed MR S. McMasters on the active roster.
San Diego Fathers: Placed 3B J. Higman on the active roster.
San Diego Fathers: Placed CF T. Fournier on the active roster.
Rio Grande Roadrunners: Placed MR C. Rouse on the active roster.
Rio Grande Roadrunners: Placed CL A. Dailey on the active roster.
Rio Grande Roadrunners: Placed CL D. Hawkins on the active roster.
Brooklyn Brownstones: Placed 3B J. Scott on the active roster.
Brooklyn Brownstones: Placed MR J. Valéncia on the active roster.
Tuesday, January 9th, 1979
Valdosta Peanuts: Placed SP J. Torres on the active roster.
Valdosta Peanuts: Placed SP T. Tyler on the active roster.
Valdosta Peanuts: Placed CL R. López on the active roster.
Thursday, January 4th, 1979
Texas Travelers: Signed free agent CF N. Curtis to a 3-year contract worth a total of $6,855,000.

[Young Drachma]

34 prospects in the draft pool with 2-5 potential

[muns]

Colorado Rancheros: Signed free agent RF Z. Eassson to a 3-year contract worth a total of $7,515,000.

I really like that one Tasan. Hope he works out for you. I would have loved to have kept him. One of my all time favorites....

[Young Drachma]

preparing the file for upload...

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

I'm getting very close to being done with this league. That contract is so unrealistic its obscene.

Think of it as a year of exclusive rights to get him to sign a low deal. Kind of like the Redsox spending $50 million or whatever it was just to talk to Dice-K.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Think of it as a year of exclusive rights to get him to sign a low deal. Kind of like the Redsox spending $50 million or whatever it was just to talk to Dice-K.

+1

That's how I've felt about those sorts of deals. If I'd had my druthers, we'd be like we used to do in the old days...where I never wanted this to be a draft league anyway, I wanted teams to have to figure out whether to invest in youth or veterans.

But OOTP didn't let me.

[Young Drachma]

Tonight's file is a little smaller, so it's moving faster. It's currently at 49%

[Cringer]

RF A. Aguilera retires.

So long big guy.

[Young Drachma]

I'm excited for the Hall of Fame. It's right on time...

[Young Drachma]

6 wins for Joe Morris to get to 250 wins. HoF or not?!

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

6 wins for Joe Morris to get to 250 wins. HoF or not?!

I think he is in, but thats just me

[Young Drachma]

File is up.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

Think of it as a year of exclusive rights to get him to sign a low deal. Kind of like the Redsox spending $50 million or whatever it was just to talk to Dice-K.

I think of it as $16mil of cap space commo cant use on anyone else this season...All the power to him

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by muns

What am I dissapointed in? I dont know, maybe its the fact that I just found out that we have two to possibly how ever many guys use a loophole to gain an advantage on the rest of us and have been using this loophole for god knows how long.

Maybe its the double standards that some of us have, like using this said loophole and then calling out other guys an hour or so later for doing nothing wrong, and for something we have been doing since the inception of the league.

Maybe its the fact that I thought we werent a cut throat league, and that playing here was for fun and community just as much as it was for kicking the shit out of "Chicago" (insert whoever team you want there) cause that guy is a rival and is good at building teams.

As much as I tried not to post this, and as much as I tried not to make waves this time, as much drama that we have had here, im torn still sitting here writing this.....

I just dont understand how in the world can we have a rule that says you cant CUT a player, and sign them in the same sim because its not fair to other teams, but yet bells arent going off in a guys head when you VOID an OPTION and then resign the said player before anyone has the chance to even know you voided the contract.. I dont follow how thats even remotely fair.

Once again you gotta love the OOTP quirks and dumbass German programming.....

Maybe its just me here but voiding an option SCREAMS from every possible angle, that you have ripped up the contract and that every other team out there should have the right to try and sign said player.

Just because "in game" it doesnt happen like it should happen, that makes it ok to do it???

I had no freaking idea this shit was happening and im on this board playing and talking to guys just as much as anyone here, and that might not even be the biggest issue here.

To sign guys to contracts with the void feature just so you can void it to have the ability to renig and keep the guy on your team longer??? Im amazed, I dont know how else to put what doing that is.... straight loophole.

Please show me the link to the post where this was pointed out to the rest of the league??? Better yet show me the link where its pointed out in a thread by itself instead of being burried some 8 pages deep in a thread that not everybody reads....

If someone has done this please accept my appologies now but to my honest knowledge I havent seen it.

Im not gonna keep going on about all this because well whats it matter?? This league, this game, Its either fun or its not...

Im in the camp where I love this league and concept, and ill be here no matter what goes on unless my time shrinks down to zero somehow. However im also in the camp and on record about doing stuff for this league that doesnt exactly have to benefit me and instead would or might even be good for the league. I would love it if we were the first league to ever have everyone on board with the same sentiment.

I know I know, saying that and doing that are 2 clearly differnt things and my pipe dream is exactly that, my pipe dream.

Please forgive me for posting this and im sorry that I just created more drama in a league that has already had its fair share, but I couldnt sit here and not answer the question anymore.

You know what, it's not worth it. I removed what I originally wrote, which was much more inflammatory. I'll just say this: I have rarely read something more hypocritical than the post above.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by muns

What am I dissapointed in? I dont know, maybe its the fact that I just found out that we have two to possibly how ever many guys use a loophole to gain an advantage on the rest of us and have been using this loophole for god knows how long.
Just because "in game" it doesnt happen like it should happen, that makes it ok to do it???...

I had no freaking idea this shit was happening and im on this board playing and talking to guys just as much as anyone here, and that might not even be the biggest issue here.

To sign guys to contracts with the void feature just so you can void it to have the ability to renig and keep the guy on your team longer??? Im amazed, I dont know how else to put what doing that is.... straight loophole.

Please show me the link to the post where this was pointed out to the rest of the league??? Better yet show me the link where its pointed out in a thread by itself instead of being burried some 8 pages deep in a thread that not everybody reads....

As for this I have just the following things:

First voiding a contract does not make the player an immediate free agent. It will make him a FA at the start of free agency unless he has signed an extension after the voided deal. This I believe is the same as it is in real life. Example a team can void the last few years of a deal years out and then re-negotiate. So this is really not the same as releasing a player to the free agent pool then resigning him as he never went there and was never released.

Second there were several posts here about the subject starting around #325 by myself. So it has been brought up here before and I also got into more detail on this in the OOTP boards. This is not something that has been a secret from anyone.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

As for this I have just the following things:

First voiding a contract does not make the player an immediate free agent. It will make him a FA at the start of free agency unless he has signed an extension after the voided deal. This I believe is the same as it is in real life. Example a team can void the last few years of a deal years out and then re-negotiate. So this is really not the same as releasing a player to the free agent pool then resigning him as he never went there and was never released.

Second there were several posts here about the subject starting around #325 by myself. So it has been brought up here before and I also got into more detail on this in the OOTP boards. This is not something that has been a secret from anyone.

That probably is a good point, issues like where Manny Ramirez with the Red Sox this season wanted his last team option declined by the Red Sox so he could work on a new contract during the middle of the season is a possibility.

I think probably the only reason people have issues with this is the perception that through options, back-ended loaded contracts, etc people can offer an unrealistic deal to players that then can easily be canceled out of and renegotiated in a non-realistic way that would normally never happen.

I guess I see both sides of this issue a little bit, but the most important thing probably is to have some level of consistency through our rules and then just expect everyone to follow them whatever they may be. If back-end loaded contracts or contracts with unrealistic options are ok, then they should be ok to be declined as well here, etc.

[kaosfere]

Alright, first of all let me apologize if I ruffled any feathers last night. I certainly did not mean to discourage people from voicing problems with the rules or other GMs behaviors.

I've played, run, and developed online games for so many years now that I've seen the same pattern over and over again of a small disagreement in something that has not been considered in the rules turning into a big kerfuffle, and I was trying to avoid that.

I thought muns came on really strong for no good reason last night. He and I talked via PMs, and I understand now why he had the reaction he did. I was simply trying to short-circuit any escalation of the argument, and inadvertantly made things worse. My bad.

As for the issue: I do think it's a problem. There is a reason that so many online leagues enforce limits on back-loaded contracts and unrealistic incentives. I really don't see any reason we shouldn't, here.

As a first pass at a guideline, I would try considering disallowing any contract for which any two years are separated by > 50% of the mean annual rate. As a brief sample, this would allow a three-year 4/6/8 contract (50% mean = 3 million), but disallow 4/6/10 (50% mean = 3.33 million).

An incentive limitation could be a simple percentage of, say, the maximum year. What's a rational percentage? How much should a player making 10 million a year be allowed as a bonus?

I also think, if we're going to disallow release-and-signs, we should also disallow void-and-signs. Either way, they're both methods of using the loopholes in the AI, magnified by the time-staggered nature of an online league, to give yourself a potentially unfair advantage in signing a player without the ability of other GMs to get an offer in.

But I cast no aspersions upon anyone who has done this to date. They were playing within the rules as they existed at the time, and that's fine with me.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

As a first pass at a guideline, I would try considering disallowing any contract for which any two years are separated by > 50% of the mean annual rate. As a brief sample, this would allow a three-year 4/6/8 contract (50% mean = 3 million), but disallow 4/6/10 (50% mean = 3.33 million).

An incentive limitation could be a simple percentage of, say, the maximum year. What's a rational percentage? How much should a player making 10 million a year be allowed as a bonus?

I also think, if we're going to disallow release-and-signs, we should also disallow void-and-signs. Either way, they're both methods of using the loopholes in the AI, magnified by the time-staggered nature of an online league, to give yourself a potentially unfair advantage in signing a player without the ability of other GMs to get an offer in.

But I cast no aspersions upon anyone who has done this to date. They were playing within the rules as they existed at the time, and that's fine with me.

My thoughts on this.

1. The game automatically disallows contracts you suggest. The maximum salary has to be at or less then double the minimum salary.
2. I agree contracts should have realistic options and incentives. However implementing them is tricky. I think maybe 25% of the max is reasonable, but what about ease of obtaining the incentive. Do we limit this as well? Overall I think this will be taken care of if budges come down from the $90 - 130 million they are at now to $70 - 75 million.
3. In terms of what would be a good amount, I would say no more then a 25% to 50% increase of the previous year should be allowed. The exact percentage is debatable. So if you want to take advantage of doubling a salary from $4 million to $8 million you will need to do it slowly and somewhat evenly over the course of several years.
4. Voiding and resigning is much different then releasing and signing. This is completly within the rules of MLB so it is not a loophole. The problem is people think it is because the game only gives you the option at the end of the season when it is available at any point. For example: releasing a player with 4/6/8(team option) left will only set your team back $10 million. Thus voiding the final year. For simplicity sake the game just offers it at one time when in essence a team is free to void the option at any time. So if I void the contract in the first year and he still plays for 3 years with me should I then be forced to send him to free agency because I voided his deal? The problem is really the timing it happens, but this is completly within the rules of MLB.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

1. Voiding and resigning is much different then releasing and signing. This is completly within the rules of MLB so it is not a loophole. The problem is people think it is because the game only gives you the option at the end of the season when it is available at any point. For example: releasing a player with 4/6/8(team option) left will only set your team back $10 million. Thus voiding the final year. For simplicity sake the game just offers it at one time when in essence a team is free to void the option at any time. So if I void the contract in the first year and he still plays for 3 years with me should I then be forced to send him to free agency because I voided his deal? The problem is really the timing it happens, but this is completly within the rules of MLB.

Like I mentioned before, I think the voiding and re-signing issue is only an issue because of the backloaded contract and the bogus team option issues that people are also having issues with. If you voided a $5 million a year team option on a guy who may or may not ask for less or more than that, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you taking that risk. I think the issue is people have a problem with someone offering some crazy backloaded contract with an unrealistic team option with the full intent to just decline and re-sign much cheaper at a later date. So fix problem A, and then problem B becomes less of an issue for everyone I think...

Right?

[Anthony]

i'll be exporting tonite, since it's an important file (draft). i also will be making tomorrow nite's export also. thanks for the patience and understanding.

[muns]

Im trying to hit all point here so forgive me if its choppy.

Commo- thanks for that link, its even hard for me to follow as of now, because we were dealing with more than one issue there, and like i suspected it was on page 7 of an 8 page thread. I was just coming off vacation at that time and I know I didnt read that whole thing, which was why I was clueless about that. My bad please accept my appologies.

Kaos- Since your post was directed more at me I have no problems with you or whoever else calling me out. Its your league too

Voiding contract issue- I dont know all of MLB rules so I cant comment on what Commo is saying, but an example that pops into my head was with the Cleveland Cavaliers a few years back voiding Carlos Boozers contract and he bolted to the Utah Jazz, but again thats the NBA and not the MLB and its 2 different things.

As for going forward. I dont see how we as a whole are going to agree on anything. So im good with the BOD coming up with what they think is best for the league and moving us forward.

Ill throw my opinions out there though

1. I dont mind backloaded contracts as with the new finacial rules, its just gonna kill a team if they release a guy so im good with those staying. Its that guys team and his business if he wants to have a contract with that on the books, and makes it eaiser for the rest of us in FA.

2. I dont want to see those 1 year deals outlawed. Maybe if we can get the post that explains that sticked at the top DC for new guys to follow? I think that is a nice stragety for rebuilding teams to use, and again if a guy want to commit 16 mil to one guy, that makes it easier for the rest of us in the FA market.

3. Im good with Options and Bonus staying, and the bonus thing I think we have proved doesnt mean a whole lot when the AI determines where the guy goes. Options are useful and help teams with cap and releasing players so they dont take a cap hit so id rather not have those go anywhere. I think the void thing needs to be addressed so that we dont have a 19 mil contract getting voiding and then him resing with the same team for like 6 mil year. We also shouldnt have to police that. We are all grownups here as much as I maybe dont act like it sometimes and if we decide to put it in writing dont do it, id hope that none of us would do it and that we would all respect that rule.

I think I hit everything here.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Anthony

i'll be exporting tonite, since it's an important file (draft). i also will be making tomorrow nite's export also. thanks for the patience and understanding.

its all good HA. Glad your around even if you talk a lot of smack

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Like I mentioned before, I think the voiding and re-signing issue is only an issue because of the backloaded contract and the bogus team option issues that people are also having issues with. If you voided a $5 million a year team option on a guy who may or may not ask for less or more than that, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you taking that risk. I think the issue is people have a problem with someone offering some crazy backloaded contract with an unrealistic team option with the full intent to just decline and re-sign much cheaper at a later date. So fix problem A, and then problem B becomes less of an issue for everyone I think...

Right?

Well said Alan. Explained that a heck of a lot better than I ever did or could. Thank ya Sir!

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

1. The game automatically disallows contracts you suggest. The maximum salary has to be at or less then double the minimum salary.=

I knew there was some restriction, but not what it was.

Regardless, if that's the case, one could still go 10/10/19, which I suspect most of us would find explotative. Using my suggestion, the best you could do would be about 10/10/15, which is itself questionable, in my mind, but not nearly as bad.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Alan T

Like I mentioned before, I think the voiding and re-signing issue is only an issue because of the backloaded contract and the bogus team option issues that people are also having issues with. If you voided a $5 million a year team option on a guy who may or may not ask for less or more than that, I don't think anyone would have a problem with you taking that risk. I think the issue is people have a problem with someone offering some crazy backloaded contract with an unrealistic team option with the full intent to just decline and re-sign much cheaper at a later date. So fix problem A, and then problem B becomes less of an issue for everyone I think...

Right?

Bingo!!!!

And again let me re-state, no-one has done anything wrong IMO...not the releasing of monster contracts, the signing of option years with the purpose of rejecting to sign cheap or for the voicing on opinions...

As mentioned before, it's not the rule creation to prohibit the big option year that is the issue, most have already stated they would support that rule, it's the policing of a rule that the game will allow to be broken.

I beleive in was Muns who suggest that no policing is required. We can operate on the honour system as we do with the "Wait one sim before offering a player you just released a contract rule" Prohibit the offering of an option year greater than the maxium salary offered during the contract and anyone caught breaking that rule gets their PeePee's whacked (Perhaps losing the right to offer ANY contracts to FA's or resigns for 1 year)
I think option year rejects, should allowed to be offered contracts (as Commo pointed out is a legal practice in MLB)
I don't LIKE that arbitraion eligable players are given minor league deals, if they don't play in the majors, but there is nothing simple that can be done about it..
I think we should only be able to release players with 1 years left on there contract (again, policing issues)
I think the new finacial system will help greatly, but I do think we need to wait until the origionally planned date, as with any rule change it shouldnt be immediatly implicated as to not disrupt plans made when these moves were legal.