1981 FOOL Classic: Toronto Osprey (91-63) vs Hartford Harpooners (106-48)

[Anthony]

with the roster i've assembled, i expect every year to be a championship winning year. i have 4 huge hitters - Arthur Summers, MVP Luke Crawford, MVP Runner-up Joe Smith and now Steve Oliver. along with them is ace SP Vallis, one time top pitcher BJ Silver and the 2 young arms i brought in from Atlanta. this is championship caliber. Hartford ain't gonna win every year, and with us seemingly ready to add playoffs to the picture all i need is a foot in the door and its over. this will be a fun free agency for me cuz i have all my main guys, all i need is to cherry pick some guys for my pen and some role players and i'm done.

my trade has helped to offset the Boston raping of Colorado deal, so now i'm not as mad as i was before. these are good times to be a Violator.

[kaosfere]

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by Anthony

my trade has helped to offset the Boston raping of Colorado deal, so now i'm not as mad as i was before. these are good times to be a Violator.

Nice.

You still can't get over this can you?

Were you prepared to offer 1 young quality pitcher, 1 young stud starter, a young stud shortstop, an young outfielder that fits my stadium perfectly, and a young, high quality 1st baseman? You offered an older, high dollar OF for one of the pitchers. The guys I sent, with the exception of the throw in young MR, were all not going to be around in 3-4 seasons when my team got to where it needed to be to really contend with Hartford. I moved them NOW for a huge young talent package that quite frankly not very many teams could even think about putting together. Again, I'm sorry I didn't see your message that you wanted to talk deal, so you didn't get to get in on the bargaining. But to call this a rape? Only time will tell, but I did what I wanted to do with those guys, get a lot younger and highly talented.

Also, don't fool yourself into thinking that having 4 good pitchers is going to get you past Hartford, along with your 4 good hitters. Remember they had 5 guys win more than 20 games and had the best team batting average at .283, almost 40 points better than your team. You only finished 2 games better than me, and I shipped off a large chunk of my ML ready pitching. Its going to take a LOT of either really good talent EVERYWHERE, or a lot of time for his players to get old and go away to pass Hartford.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Tasan

Its going to take a LOT of either really good talent EVERYWHERE, or a lot of time for his players to get old and go away to pass Hartford.

No it's not.

You just need to be second best and get lucky in the playoffs.

Cuz it's fair that way.

[Tasan]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

No it's not.

You just need to be second best and get lucky in the playoffs.

Cuz it's fair that way.

Has he even finished in second yet? Maybe once? I know thats all I managed to do so far.

[Anthony]

every year this team gets better and better. i keep adding major components. i don't know what Hartford is doing, but what i do know is his players aren't drinking from the fountain of youth and every year the guys that make his team so good are the same guys that get older. playoffs will be good because any team can look good beating up on the worst team in the league, but when you gotta playe 8 or 9 games against the #2 team in the division? anything can happen.

the Violators in the upcoming season are going to be scary good. scary.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Well played, sir. Well played.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by Anthony

every year this team gets better and better. i keep adding major components. i don't know what Hartford is doing, but what i do know is his players aren't drinking from the fountain of youth and every year the guys that make his team so good are the same guys that get older. playoffs will be good because any team can look good beating up on the worst team in the league, but when you gotta playe 8 or 9 games against the #2 team in the division? anything can happen.

the Violators in the upcoming season are going to be scary good. scary.

Oh look, Anthony has a new mascot:

[Pike]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

LMAO. God, that is absolutely perfect dude.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

No it's not.

You just need to be second best and get lucky in the playoffs.

Cuz it's fair that way.

I'm not sure when the day will come that the Sox are in position to even be number 2 in the RL, but if I get in the playoffs, manage to beat whoever in a best of 7, and win a Classic after that......I will be just as proud of the accomplishment as I would be if I did it the way it is now.

Kaos, I salute your excellent season and your championship. You have done an awesome job. However, if you feel that playoffs are all about getting lucky and that the best team ratings and record-wise should get the glory.......then under that logic, perhaps you should cede your championship to Hartford, who won several more games than you during the season? They were the superior team on paper, so should you chalk up your epic Classic victory as blind luck perhaps, and give the trophy to the team that I think we can all agree is the dominate franchise in either league? After all, you only had to play Muns in a 9 game series. In the RL, we are facing him in the double digits. So would you give your trophy back?

I wouldn't, but that's the logic I feel you are using. If the main argument against a 4 team playoff is that OOTP's logic in postseason play is flawed, then let's eliminate the two seperate leagues, make one league, and whoever has the best record at the end of the year gets the trophy. I mean, essentially that is what I feel is being advocated.

[Young Drachma]

Pike, you can get there. That team was in worse shape when I took over in 1970 than they are now if you can believe it and 5 years later, we were in the Classic. Things do ebb and flow, to be sure, but...the playoffs opening up will make it that much more exciting for teams to be able to compete from year to year.

I don't think it'll water anything down, it'll make it more competitive and if it's good enough for real life where there is real money at stake and none of the teams are viewed as illegitimate champions, it won't be any different here.

Even if it's a little bumpy at first. I think it's good for the league and really, that's what this is all about.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Pike

Kaos, I salute your excellent season and your championship. You have done an awesome job. However, if you feel that playoffs are all about getting lucky and that the best team ratings and record-wise should get the glory.......then under that logic, perhaps you should cede your championship to Hartford, who won several more games than you during the season?

Oh, don't get me wrong. If I played Hartford in 10 Classics with the same teams, I suspect they'd win at least 6. They definitely have the stronger team, on paper. And I certainly understand the value of expanded playoffs, even though I voted against them.

I was mostly snarking at the incongruity of, in one post, pounding your shoe on the lectern and crying "We will crush you!", then, in the next, suggesting that all you need for your flawless victory to happen is finish second, because the rest is pre-ordained.

It's like Wile E. Coyote insisting that he is clearly smarter and more clever than Roadrunner, but he needs to have the Roadrunner locked in a small room where he can't escape in order to prove it.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Oh, don't get me wrong. If I played Hartford in 10 Classics with the same teams, I suspect they'd win at least 6. They definitely have the stronger team, on paper. And I certainly understand the value of expanded playoffs, even though I voted against them.

I was mostly snarking at the incongruity of, in one post, pounding your shoe on the lectern and crying "We will crush you!", then, in the next, suggesting that all you need for your flawless victory to happen is finish second, because the rest is pre-ordained.

It's like Wile E. Coyote insisting that he is clearly smarter and more clever than Roadrunner, but he needs to have the Roadrunner locked in a small room where he can't escape in order to prove it.

LOL, ok---well I always seem to have things flying over my head.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Pike

LOL, ok---well I always seem to have things flying over my head.

Nah, I can see how I was unclear.

(Although I would argue that there's a non-trivial difference between picking the best record of a single league, and comparing the records of two teams that have played in isolation because we don't have inter-league play. That's not to say that the Classic isn't, to a degree, a crapshoot; just that it's not directly comparable to a wildcard series.)

[Pike]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Pike, you can get there. That team was in worse shape when I took over in 1970 than they are now if you can believe it and 5 years later, we were in the Classic. Things do ebb and flow, to be sure, but...the playoffs opening up will make it that much more exciting for teams to be able to compete from year to year.

I don't think it'll water anything down, it'll make it more competitive and if it's good enough for real life where there is real money at stake and none of the teams are viewed as illegitimate champions, it won't be any different here.

Even if it's a little bumpy at first. I think it's good for the league and really, that's what this is all about.

Well, I hope I can!

My argument though is not about me personally getting to the playoffs. Frankly, I have alot to learn before I even deserve to sniff postseason baseball. Unlike some, I have no delusions of grandeur, lol. I just want to see a little more action, and I don't think we are watering down anything by adding a couple of teams into the mix.

What I do not want to see, however, are divisions. Because then, yes, I would agree that there might be teams in the playoffs who don't deserve to be there. The MLB is a prime example of this. The Dodgers, quite frankly, had no business being in the playoffs considering their record and who that record was compiled against. I have read articles from people wanting baseball to go to a best record format for who gets in the playoffs---and this would be the same system we'd have here.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Pike

The Dodgers, quite frankly, had no business being in the playoffs considering their record and who that record was compiled against.

And yet....

Stupid Cubs.

[Pike]

Originally Posted by kaosfere

And yet....

Stupid Cubs.

lol, very true. My point though, is that say MLB had a system similiar to what has been proposed here.

Your NL teams would have been:

Philly, Chicago, Milwaukee, and New York. ( I state 4 teams since MLB is twice our league's size nearly). The Mets played in a tough NL East division with two good teams in it. They finished just 3 games back of Philly, who looks like the new WS champ. Personally, if NYM had beaten Chicago I wouldn't have been nearly as shocked as I was about the Dodgers win. And MLB has another flaw: the 5 game series. I will say that I think that is too short of a series.

Anyway I think I am officially

What can I say, boring day here in the office!

[TimGuru]

edited, found in game emails waiting for me about extension offers.

[muns]

Ya Tim they went through cause after Anthony's deal with Luck Crawford was voided last sim because he offered up and illegal incentive, he came back with a gem of a deal that looks like this:

9,170,000
9,170,000
9,170,000
17,170,000

So they did go through.

My bad didnt realize you edited your question

[Pike]

Originally Posted by muns

Ya Tim they went through cause after Anthony's deal with Luck Crawford was voided last sim because he offered up and illegal incentive, he came back with a gem of a deal that looks like this:

9,170,000
9,170,000
9,170,000
17,170,000

So they did go through.

My bad didnt realize you edited your question

Wait.....he offered up 17 million in the last season? Wouldn't the owner reject that as unbalanced?

Wow, Anthony's ineptitude knows no bounds does it?

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Pike

Wait.....he offered up 17 million in the last season? Wouldn't the owner reject that as unbalanced?

Wow, Anthony's ineptitude knows no bounds does it?

Owners do not set the budgets in this league. As long as you have the money and salary cap room, you can offer a contract to a player. This deal is legal and similar to ones that many owners have done in this league many times in the past. We probably don't need to necessarily critique every move that he makes, I am sure we can find other sources for smack talk too

[Pike]

I asked Alan, because I had deals I couldn't submit because the owner said they were unbalanced. And they weren't nearly as out of whack as that one was.

As for sources of smack talk, well he keeps lobbing softballs for everyone to hit......

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Pike

I asked Alan, because I had deals I couldn't submit because the owner said they were unbalanced. And they weren't nearly as out of whack as that one was.

As for sources of smack talk, well he keeps lobbing softballs for everyone to hit......

The game has a requirement that any one year can not be more than double the average value for the remainder of the deal. So in this case, the "owner" would allow even more than 18mil even if he had wanted to offer that.

[TimGuru]

No year can exceed double the average value of the either the whole deal or the rest of the years, I forget which. But that looks like (if he did it the way I do it) he offered a massive last year and then used the -$ button until the owner said, OK you can offer that.


I have been doing that with some of the guys I grabbed from the FA list before the season sim. I had massive cap room this year so I overpayed them to sit on my bench, and got reasonable $ amounts in return in 82 and 83. (A non-factual example, I offered somebody 3 million for 81 and 1.5 million for 82 aqnd 83, all it really costs me is the 1.5 each year because I didn't care about money this year).

[Anthony]

i still don't know why the 1st extension was voided, he asked for a $700K bonus for winning the MVP so i didn't have a prob giving it to him. i was fine with the contract Crawford initially wanted to sign, so i just clicked "Meet Demand". i guess no incentives are allowed, period, even if the player asked for it. but i much prefer the new deal he agreed to anyway. we get him for another 3 seasons and in that 4th season, well, hopefully there's a market for 33 year old former MVPs in free agency. i took a big risk offering that since it seems a tad lopsided at first glance, but all i care about is if my owner would allow me to offer it. i think Crawford agreed to it cuz he averages the same amount of money per year under this extension than under the original $11million per deal he wanted. something like that. i'm pretty happy, Violators remain competitive for at least the next 3 years.

[TimGuru]

dola, I've thrown out some PMs because I am unexpectedly home early today due to circumstances beyond my ability to predict when I predicted last night that I was going back to my normal routine this week. But, I now have to go do my normal routine (gym, dinner, pretend to be interested in my stepkids j/k) and will be back 8 eastern-ish.

[TimGuru]

Originally Posted by Anthony

i still don't know why the 1st extension was voided, he asked for a $700K bonus for winning the MVP so i didn't have a prob giving it to him. but i much prefer the new deal he offered. he either toes the company line or he can try to ply his trade in free agency. i took a big risk offering that since it seems a tad off, but all i care about is if my owner would allow me to offer it. i think Crawford agreed to it cuz he averages the same amount of money per year under this extension than under the original $11million per deal he wanted. something like that. i'm pretty happy, Violators remain competitive for at least the next 3 years.

Is that last year a team option?

[TimGuru]

And Anthony,

FOOL Rulebook and League Information - Front Office Football Central

Look under the section transactions. No incentives allowed at all anymore.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Is that last year a team option?

No, it is straight salary.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Pike

Wait.....he offered up 17 million in the last season? Wouldn't the owner reject that as unbalanced?

Wow, Anthony's ineptitude knows no bounds does it?

so much for my "ineptitude".

Originally Posted by Old Poker Saying

If you’re playing a poker game and you look around the table and can’t tell who the sucker is, it’s you.

[kaosfere]

May I suggest that the BOD consider extending the "no more than 20% rule" to all years of the contract, not just an option year? Without passing judgement on its overall validity, I have a hard time finding a 9/9/9/17 contract much less exploitative than a 9/9/9/(17 Option) one.

[Tasan]

Well in the case of a 9/9/9/17 contract vs a 9/9/9/17 option, the owner WILL have to pay that 17 million in the final year of the non-option contract, giving a "built in" penalty of offering that contract.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Tasan

Well in the case of a 9/9/9/17 contract vs a 9/9/9/17 option, the owner WILL have to pay that 17 million in the final year of the non-option contract, giving a "built in" penalty of offering that contract.

This is correct. Someone will have to pay the piper at some point for back end contracts that are not options. And it is already a pain in the butt to look through for all of the other rules that were voted in as part of the financial plan. I'd rather not add even more restrictions if there is not a great reason for it. In this case, it does not seem too exploitative because someone will have to pay that.

[muns]

Originally Posted by Alan T

This is correct. Someone will have to pay the piper at some point for back end contracts that are not options. And it is already a pain in the butt to look through for all of the other rules that were voted in as part of the financial plan. I'd rather not add even more restrictions if there is not a great reason for it. In this case, it does not seem too exploitative because someone will have to pay that.

Not that it matters but I do agree with Alan on this one.

[Pike]

Frankly, I find a deal like that to be every bit as glitchy/shady as one with incentives. We all know that Boy Genius has no plans to pay that final year, and cutting 17 mil--while not for nothing, is not going to be much of a penalty.

Funny that this contract is done by a guy who professes his love for all things 'realistic'. Riiiiiight. I'm sure a MLB GM would give an aging star a contract with 17 million on it the last year.

As for ineptitude, lol......bragging about your superiority every year, only to come out under .500 and 20+ games out, over and over? If not inept, then delusional will suffice.

[Anthony]

when in Rome, as they say. the way i normally like to run my team and the way most everyone else runs their team are 2 different things. i'm not gonna handcuff myself when one team makes 10 trades a day and others look for loopholes. i wanna win just as much as the next guy. as long as its legal i'll do what it takes to win.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alan T

This is correct. Someone will have to pay the piper at some point for back end contracts that are not options. And it is already a pain in the butt to look through for all of the other rules that were voted in as part of the financial plan. I'd rather not add even more restrictions if there is not a great reason for it. In this case, it does not seem too exploitative because someone will have to pay that.

I completely agree, plus I think this will just cause a major headache to us all when offering contracts.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I completely agree, plus I think this will just cause a major headache to us all when offering contracts.

Fair enough. I thought it worth suggesting.

Back to your regularly scheduled poop-flinging...

[muns]

Originally Posted by Anthony

when in Rome, as they say. the way i normally like to run my team and the way most everyone else runs their team are 2 different things. i'm not gonna handcuff myself when one team makes 10 trades a day and others look for loopholes. i wanna win just as much as the next guy. as long as its legal i'll do what it takes to win.

While I can respect much of what you say here, some of the changes we are going through are directly related to you.

You talk an awful lot of shit, havent backed it up, and for whatever reason continue to talk an awful lot of shit. How about just being quiet till you finally do something????

Then you talk about "ineptitude" earlier in this thread and then say "as long as its legal youll do whatever it takes to win".

The problem with that is that Crawfords contract was voided because instead of reading the rules around here you are to busy flapping off.

You also have a SP on your team that I stayed quiet about that also has an illegal contact but I wanted you to keep him this year so that you couldnt complain that I didnt want to face you with him yada yada yada.....

Feel free to take a look at SP Vallis and his deal..... If thats not "ineptitude"......

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by muns

While I can respect much of what you say here, some of the changes we are going through are directly related to you.

You talk an awful lot of shit, havent backed it up, and for whatever reason continue to talk an awful lot of shit. How about just being quiet till you finally do something????

Then you talk about "ineptitude" earlier in this thread and then say "as long as its legal youll do whatever it takes to win".

The problem with that is that Crawfords contract was voided because instead of reading the rules around here you are to busy flapping off.

You also have a SP on your team that I stayed quiet about that also has an illegal contact but I wanted you to keep him this year so that you couldnt complain that I didnt want to face you with him yada yada yada.....

Feel free to take a look at SP Vallis and his deal..... If thats not "ineptitude"......

I purposely did not make a long list of everyone who violated a league rule this year. There were actually over 1/4th of the teams in the league this year that had some form of rule infraction this season. The penalties for rule infractions were posted, and in every case I contacted the owners directly to discuss the penalty and apply them fairly. The Board of Directors know what penalties were involved as an oversight to make sure I'm not playing any favorites as well. Vallis has been taken care of previously.

I'm going to try to say the next thing in a very nice way because I do mean it as a suggestive hint.. I think that Anthony has alot of character and he presents himself and his team in a unique way. I feel that this league's smack talk is fun and people can get into it, but at some point it gets beyond smack talk and becomes just a distraction. I think Anthony deserves the right to feel strong or weak about his team just the same as anyone else does without every single post of his being met with smack talk. I guess what I am saying is smack talk is a lot more fun to read when it is good mannered and witty than when it is cruel by nature or just to be mean.

With tonight starting the 1982 offseason and free agency, lets try to see if we can make it all the way through 1982 without turning every thread into Anthony vs 4 or 5 other owners

[TimGuru]

<< edit: my +1 here is for muns. Frankly, as will be seen in the content of my post, I compeltely disagree with Alan's sentiment except that the "bs" level of smack needs to end)

+1

Frankly, Anthony, you posted a lot during the playoff debate issue that you felt the league would suffer from enormous turnover without an expansion to the playoffs. Oddly, the only person implying they were going to quit over this issue, at least publically, was you.

As I see it, the biggest threat to the majority of owners' continued interest in this league is the shit storm you continue to brew. There is smack talk (Tasan's I hate hartford campaign) which totally has a place, no matter how deluded.

Then there is rude, self-important chest puffing which wastes all of our time to read, and is foundationless. Yes, we get it, this league isn't like other ones. If you ran a team that played on real grass that needed mowing, you would do things different. editING GET OVER IT.

Your crap in these threads for the past week has caused a widespread flurry of PMs to fly around, as people feel the need to apologize to Alan and each other for the level of frustration they have with you and worry that they have crossed the line in the public threads. I for one am not going to pull any more punches with you, if I get thrown out of the league, so be it.

Your attitude sucks. Very few if any of your fellow commissioners like your attitude. We are tired of it. No one agrees with your assessment of muns. Can the digs about people who make ten trades a day. Your trade offers suck. I've received them, and heard about ones from others. I commend the Chief for figuring out some way of dealing with you.


When in Rome? In THIS Rome, we respect each other, and feel genuine affection and congratulatory sentiment for the winners. We treat each other with the esteem they are due, which is, the esteem for a league full of people who are sophisticated enough users of OOTP to function in a league like this, whatever their win-loss record.

If "when in Rome" is your motto, stop posting like a 4 year old, stop pushing the league rules outside of the lines, of which ignorance is no excuse (especially not anymore that Alan has troubled himself to post them all in one place). Stop treating us like the audience at a WWE event. I for one will leave the league BECAUSE OF YOUR POSTING, if it goes on for about 1 more week.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by TimGuru

if I get thrown out of the league, so be it.

I wasn't threatening to kick anyone out of the league. I've just gotten several people tell me they are a bit tired of the back and forth that has been going on between Anthony and a few others is all. I just was trying to calm the peace a bit and get people pointed back to other more productive venues... such as who all is going to put in a ton of money for the free agent Starting pitcher from the VL?

In the end, you are all adults, some of which with conflicting personalities.. and no one will be able to tell any of you what you have to do or not do. I just personally think if someone annoys me, I usually just ignore their posts is all. I just don't want to see owners that I value get tired of the league because of constant bickering is all. I don't want to see people leave because of personality conflicts.. I just want everyone to get along

[kaosfere]

I don't like you and I don't like the poop you're throwing at me. Therefore, I am going to throw just as much poop right back at you. I mean, you deserve it, right?

This way, we'll all be covered in poop and stink to high heaven. And won't everyone be happy, then?

...

To those who are offended by excess, unfounded bravado, may I suggest the eternally-useful old varsity taunt? "Scoreboard!" There's really not need for much more than that. In the current case under examination, it seems like it would prove the point very well.

("Why can't we all just get along?!")

[Young Drachma]

Folks, it's just a game. Relax.

[kaosfere]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Folks, it's just a game. Relax.

Or, what he said.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Alan T

such as who all is going to put in a ton of money for the free agent Starting pitcher from the VL?

So you are saying that my meet demand offer will probably not get accepted

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

So you are saying that my meet demand offer will probably not get accepted

I have no idea what he is asking for or what anyone else is offering. I just saw him and can imagine how many people are drooling over him. The last really strong pitcher I remember hitting free agency at this age was Artie Wiley. So I'm curious to see how that goes tonight!

[kaosfere]

I must say... one of my favorite parts of my Classic win was handing Wiley two losses in his old home park.

(Love ya, muns. )

I regret that I haven't the money to expend on this bright young star.

[TimGuru]

pffffft. Cue soundtrack: Success in the VL for SPs hasn't really translated to the FOOL majors.

[TimGuru]

By the way, how do I have so much money tied up for extensions instead of FAs? I have no pending offers.