1985 Regular Season Thread (PLAYOFFS will be run Monday night 10pm ET)

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:11 PM

Ok sim time, best of luck to everyone. Lets get this started!

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:14 PM

Have exports from the entire league.

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:21 PM

Have some major salary cap issues I have to deal with. As a reminder no one can start the season with a payroll over 65million or I will be forced to release people to get under the cap

ekcut · 11-23-2008, 09:22 PM

Showtime!

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:26 PM

My apologies, I have sent a pm to the offending salary cap violaters and given them 10 minutes to respond. I need to wait to give them a chance to do so in case they are around.

One of the teams is over by roughly $11million which means I would have no choice but cut their best players.. which is pretty awful. So bear with me here, if they don't respond in 10 minutes I'll just have to do it and try my best to not wreck a team.

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 09:29 PM

eek....one of the new guys?

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:31 PM

I'm one of the people over, and I'm well aware of it. I have well in excess of 11 million in payroll in AAA, and if my major league roster is touched you will have a vacant New York team.

dacubz · 11-23-2008, 09:32 PM

Nope, not me!

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

I'm one of the people over, and I'm well aware of it. I have well in excess of 11 million in payroll in AAA, and if my major league roster is touched you will have a vacant New York team.

Okay, this is rather ominous. What do you expect him to do then?

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

I'm one of the people over, and I'm well aware of it. I have well in excess of 11 million in payroll in AAA, and if my major league roster is touched you will have a vacant New York team.

Lets not drag this into here Tim. We can talk via PM about this.

For the other owners in the league, we had one way of traditionally doing this, and the way listed in the rulebook for salary cap violations has not ever been used actually. Pretty much my fault especially since this wouldn't have been something any new owner would have known anyways.

To be fair, I'll apply the penalty as listed in the rule book for this infraction, and look into how to make this type of loophole from not being abused in the future.

Lets get on with the season.

dacubz · 11-23-2008, 09:36 PM

Ummm...I know I'm the newbie here, but shouldn't this have been fixed before opening day?

Post written before I saw Alan's

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:37 PM

Well, duh, since I have 11 million on my AAA roster and I don't want my major league team touched.

I am going to cut enough payroll out of AAA to get under. I don't agree with having to do it, there is a clear rule posted that says that the penalty for being over is a third round pick, and I was perfectly willing to accept that penalty. I assume by cutting the guys instead, i won't lose my third round pick. But apparently, assuming that a published rule means what it says has already gotten me in trouble so I guess I should assume I'll be penalized too.

I'm not at all happy about this.

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 09:39 PM

I think this will be a good discussion for the BoD. Maybe some revision is necessary on the rules. Can we just take the rest of the discussion there for now?

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:42 PM

Exported.

Go Atlanta and Baltimore! Or whoever the hell!

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:43 PM

PS 4 or 5 high quality free agents available for the playoff sim!!!!!!

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Well, duh, since I have 11 million on my AAA roster and I don't want my major league team touched.

I am going to cut enough payroll out of AAA to get under. I don't agree with having to do it, there is a clear rule posted that says that the penalty for being over is a third round pick, and I was perfectly willing to accept that penalty. I assume by cutting the guys instead, i won't lose my third round pick. But apparently, assuming that a published rule means what it says has already gotten me in trouble so I guess I should assume I'll be penalized too.

I'm not at all happy about this.

Well, I am sure having the $11 M itself is going to seem an egregious cut, but that penalty was put in place for all salary cap overages. Frankly, I don't think anyone actually thought a team would be that much over the cap, so the penalty was assessed basically because this sort of cap violation was expected to be some under $1 M over type of infraction with some minor player cut. The penalty was because losing a backup player making minimum or close to it didn't seem to be enough for having gone over one of the major roster levellers of the league. It wouldn't be fair to not assess that to all salcap violators, no matter how much they're over.

I assume, Tim, you're also going to end up with a negative balance, so you'll have a penalty for that, too. Ouch, what a CF situation.

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasan

I think this will be a good discussion for the BoD. Maybe some revision is necessary on the rules. Can we just take the rest of the discussion there for now?

For starters, I'll set the rulebook to actually have the rule that has always been used in the league. I still say it was my fault for having the conflicting rules in there. We can definitely talk about the future of this rule though after the season.

I have no hard feelings to Tim at all, and would rather keep any further drama out of this thread for this subject.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

PS 4 or 5 high quality free agents available for the playoff sim!!!!!!

So you didn't lose the AAA salary then? That does suck. But I will abide by Tasan's wishes and not comment further.

Although I will recommend to the current BoD that this might be a situation that would be a good discussion for the entire league to be a part of, so long as we all keep it above board.

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Well, I am sure having the $11 M itself is going to seem an egregious cut, but that penalty was put in place for all salary cap overages. Frankly, I don't think anyone actually thought a team would be that much over the cap, so the penalty was assessed basically because this sort of cap violation was expected to be some under $1 M over type of infraction with some minor player cut. The penalty was because losing a backup player making minimum or close to it didn't seem to be enough for having gone over one of the major roster levellers of the league. It wouldn't be fair to not assess that to all salcap violators, no matter how much they're over.

I assume, Tim, you're also going to end up with a negative balance, so you'll have a penalty for that, too. Ouch, what a CF situation.

I've actually never penalized anyone for salary cap overages and don't plan to start with Tim. Like I said, probably my fault for having a confusing situation here and I feel bad about it. I apologize.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've actually never penalized anyone for salary cap overages and don't plan to start with Tim. Like I said, probably my fault for having a confusing situation here and I feel bad about it. I apologize.

Don't feel bad, Alan. That was a tough financial ruleset to put together, and it shouldn't surprise any of us that the language as we proposed it isn't ironclad and foolproof.

And while I agree that conflicting rules should be viewed as an out in this case, I think Tim would be the first to agree with you that he himself is at fault for being so far over the cap.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:50 PM

I am curious to know, though, if New York is playing this season with a $77 M payroll. It could help put the season in proper perspective.

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:50 PM

Quit holding hands, grab my current export and get on with the show.

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 09:51 PM

Hey look, we have 7 league members watching the season right now, including both of our newest owners! Pretty good turnout for a delayed, Sunday night sim.

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am curious to know, though, if New York is playing this season with a $77 M payroll. It could help put the season in proper perspective.

Yeah, and so does having an extra 20 minute to 1 hour buffer after every deadline, right Chief? Oh no wait, some rules are more equal than others.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Quit holding hands, grab my current export and get on with the show.

Kumbaya, my Loooooorrrrrrrrrd...Kumbayaaaaaaaaaa...

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am curious to know, though, if New York is playing this season with a $77 M payroll. It could help put the season in proper perspective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Yeah, and so does having an extra 20 minute to 1 hour buffer after every deadline, right Chief? Oh no wait, some rules are more equal than others.

Lets drop it guys.

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I am curious to know, though, if New York is playing this season with a $77 M payroll. It could help put the season in proper perspective.

No, he cut players to get under the cap. We're proceeding on as we've always done in this situation.. no further fines of the such. Tim is rightfully upset at me because this is my fault. Lets just drop this so it doesn't ruin my bad evening any further. I'm starting up the season now and hope it is a good one.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Yeah, and so does having an extra 20 minute to 1 hour buffer after every deadline, right Chief? Oh no wait, some rules are more equal than others.

There's nothing in the rules stating we can't ask for more time. There's also nothing in the rules stating Alan has to grant it. So it sounds like your beef here should be with the rules.

I am actually sympathetic to your situation, because I see now why you were so frustrated about the trading. But comments like these will quickly evaporate what sympathy I have. You were $12 M over the cap, and that's listed out pretty clearly in the rules, regardless of the lack of clarity in punishment.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:55 PM

Fine, I will drop it if he will.

dacubz · 11-23-2008, 09:56 PM

I just want to see if my team sucks as much as it did before I got my hands on 'em.

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Fine, I will drop it if he will.

Way to be 12 Chief!

Commo_Soldier · 11-23-2008, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

No, he cut players to get under the cap. We're proceeding on as we've always done in this situation.. no further fines of the such. Tim is rightfully upset at me because this is my fault. Lets just drop this so it doesn't ruin my bad evening any further. I'm starting up the season now and hope it is a good one.

I fail to see how this can be your fault as this is not a new rule, if anything Tim should be thankful that you let him make his changes. I'm curious if the players released were on the last year of their contracts or made less then $5 million.

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dacubz

I just want to see if my team sucks as much as it did before I got my hands on 'em.

Or, it could be like me. I took a multiple championship team and drove them into the ground. I've bet it all on a rebuild that I hope is going to bring us back next year, but I have my doubts.

You guys in the RL can just skip reading that last part. The Revolution is going to happen in '86!!!

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tasan

Way to be 12 Chief!

Heh...to be young again. Instead, I get to be the surly old dude.

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 09:58 PM

For the record, I had a deal in place with Wyoming to clear all my salary overage plus a highly regarded first round pick from a recent draft. Since it is well known that we know each other in real life, I thought there would be a hue and cry that I traded Jae Won So, Elliot Brown, Arthur Shoemaker, some middle reliever, and Jesus Pena for a 4th rounder from his A level. So I said I would take the penalty and just live with the overage.

I didn't touch my major league roster, it is well under 65 million. I still have several players with <1mil salaries on my AAA team and have my payroll under 65 now.

kaosfere · 11-23-2008, 09:59 PM

PLAY BALL!

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Heh...to be young again. Instead, I get to be the surly old dude.

I should have actually said 6. I have a 6 year old, and the whole "I'll stop if he does" came right out of his mouth a couple of days ago, in reference to his 3 year old brother. Yay parenting!

ekcut · 11-23-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Yeah, and so does having an extra 20 minute to 1 hour buffer after every deadline, right Chief? Oh no wait, some rules are more equal than others.

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA!!!

This league has rules??? Why wasn't I informed?!!?!?

You would think with all of the extra time this week I've created a new slogan by now...someone's slacking!

TimGuru · 11-23-2008, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I fail to see how this can be your fault as this is not a new rule, if anything Tim should be thankful that you let him make his changes. I'm curious if the players released were on the last year of their contracts or made less then $5 million.

Yeah, actually Commo, I can read, which is the source of the problem here. All the players cut were from my AAA level, the highest individual salary was Jae Won So in the last year of a deal in which he was making 4.3 mil. You can feel free to check if you want though, no one is fighting with Anthony tonight so your services sticking up for him won't be needed. You should have some extra time on your hands.

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 10:01 PM

May 1st, 1985:

Code:

Continental League Standings

Baltimore Gothams	21	11	.656	-	
Wyoming Buffalo Solider	20	12	.625	1.0	
Atlanta Firecrackers	19	13	.594	2.0	
New York Panthers	16	16	.500	5.0	
Rio Grande Roadrunners	16	16	.500	5.0	
Brooklyn Brownstones	15	17	.469	6.0	
Toronto Osprey		11	21	.344	10.0	
Napa Valley Winemakers	10	22	.313	11.0	

Republic League Standings

Hartford Harpooners	23	9	.719	-	
Colorado Rancheros	20	12	.625	3.0	
Boston Bombers		18	14	.563	5.0	
San Diego Fathers	17	15	.531	6.0	
Ann Arbor Wolverines	16	16	.500	7.0	
Chicago Black Sox	13	19	.406	10.0	
Columbus Crusaders	12	20	.375	11.0	
Long Island Violators	9	23	.281	14.0

dacubz · 11-23-2008, 10:02 PM

If Alan's in his hotel, he's probably cracked his mini bar by now!

Alan T · 11-23-2008, 10:03 PM

May 1st stats leaders:

S. Patterson (RG) .382
A. Morales (ANN) 8 HR
B.Barrett (SD) 25 RBI

R. Fritz (RG) 6 wins
D. Spencer (BAL) / K. O'Quinn (BOS) / F. Rodriguez (COL) 10 saves
J. Trinidad (WYO) 1.15 ERA

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekcut

Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa WHOA!!!

This league has rules??? Why wasn't I informed?!!?!?

You would think with all of the extra time this week I've created a new slogan by now...someone's slacking!

Takin' a dive in '85?

Commo_Soldier · 11-23-2008, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimGuru

Yeah, actually Commo, I can read, which is the source of the problem here. All the players cut were from my AAA level, the highest individual salary was Jae Won So in the last year of a deal in which he was making 4.3 mil. You can feel free to check if you want though, no one is fighting with Anthony tonight so your services sticking up for him won't be needed. You should have some extra time on your hands.

Here is a thought, your team was in the wrong and everyone knows it. So why take your anger out on others? Maybe it would be best for you to go take a walk and calm down for 15 minutes.

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 10:04 PM

Well, how about them Buff Soldiers!

brittdad · 11-23-2008, 10:05 PM

Oh Oh, maybe too much rebuild.

Scott

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alan T

May 1st, 1985:

Code:

Republic League Standings

Hartford Harpooners    23    9    .719    -    
Colorado Rancheros    20    12    .625    3.0    
Boston Bombers        18    14    .563    5.0    
San Diego Fathers    17    15    .531    6.0    
Ann Arbor Wolverines    16    16    .500    7.0    
Chicago Black Sox    13    19    .406    10.0    
Columbus Crusaders    12    20    .375    11.0    
Long Island Violators    9    23    .281    14.0

Did someone give the go on the Revolution, and I missed the team meeting? Go Rancheros!

Chief Rum · 11-23-2008, 10:05 PM

Guys, please, let's all take walks if we need to. No more of this. We're still under a zero tolerance policy (and tonight shows we should be).

kaosfere · 11-23-2008, 10:06 PM

Aw, man! I'm not even winning the race for the bottom!

Tasan · 11-23-2008, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaosfere

Aw, man! I'm not even winning the race for the bottom!

Doesn't it suck when you have trouble being the suckiest?

11-23-2008, 09:14 PM	#2
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Have exports from the entire league. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

11-23-2008, 09:21 PM	#3
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	Have some major salary cap issues I have to deal with. As a reminder no one can start the season with a payroll over 65million or I will be forced to release people to get under the cap __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

11-23-2008, 09:22 PM	#4
ekcut College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Edmonton, Alberta	Showtime! __________________ FOOLX- Alberta Renegades FOOL- Leduc Bullets

11-23-2008, 09:26 PM	#5
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	My apologies, I have sent a pm to the offending salary cap violaters and given them 10 minutes to respond. I need to wait to give them a chance to do so in case they are around. One of the teams is over by roughly $11million which means I would have no choice but cut their best players.. which is pretty awful. So bear with me here, if they don't respond in 10 minutes I'll just have to do it and try my best to not wreck a team. __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

11-23-2008, 09:29 PM	#6
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	eek....one of the new guys? __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

11-23-2008, 09:31 PM	#7
TimGuru High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA	I'm one of the people over, and I'm well aware of it. I have well in excess of 11 million in payroll in AAA, and if my major league roster is touched you will have a vacant New York team. __________________ FOOL: NY Panthers1974-88 ; Hyannis Patriots 2037-2055 hiatus FOOL-H: NY YANKEES 1903- FOOL-X: Cumberland Defenders 1985-

11-23-2008, 09:32 PM	#8
dacubz n00b Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago	Nope, not me! __________________ FOOL Columbus Crusaders Baseball Maelstrom Houston Astros WBH Bayamon Bulldogs Hardball Heroes Springfield Cubs

11-23-2008, 09:36 PM	#11
dacubz n00b Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago	Ummm...I know I'm the newbie here, but shouldn't this have been fixed before opening day? Post written before I saw Alan's __________________ FOOL Columbus Crusaders Baseball Maelstrom Houston Astros WBH Bayamon Bulldogs Hardball Heroes Springfield Cubs Last edited by dacubz : 11-23-2008 at 09:38 PM.

11-23-2008, 09:37 PM	#12
TimGuru High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA	Well, duh, since I have 11 million on my AAA roster and I don't want my major league team touched. I am going to cut enough payroll out of AAA to get under. I don't agree with having to do it, there is a clear rule posted that says that the penalty for being over is a third round pick, and I was perfectly willing to accept that penalty. I assume by cutting the guys instead, i won't lose my third round pick. But apparently, assuming that a published rule means what it says has already gotten me in trouble so I guess I should assume I'll be penalized too. I'm not at all happy about this. __________________ FOOL: NY Panthers1974-88 ; Hyannis Patriots 2037-2055 hiatus FOOL-H: NY YANKEES 1903- FOOL-X: Cumberland Defenders 1985-

11-23-2008, 09:39 PM	#13
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	I think this will be a good discussion for the BoD. Maybe some revision is necessary on the rules. Can we just take the rest of the discussion there for now? __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

11-23-2008, 09:42 PM	#14
TimGuru High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA	Exported. Go Atlanta and Baltimore! Or whoever the hell! __________________ FOOL: NY Panthers1974-88 ; Hyannis Patriots 2037-2055 hiatus FOOL-H: NY YANKEES 1903- FOOL-X: Cumberland Defenders 1985-

11-23-2008, 09:43 PM	#15
TimGuru High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA	PS 4 or 5 high quality free agents available for the playoff sim!!!!!! __________________ FOOL: NY Panthers1974-88 ; Hyannis Patriots 2037-2055 hiatus FOOL-H: NY YANKEES 1903- FOOL-X: Cumberland Defenders 1985-

11-23-2008, 09:50 PM	#21
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I am curious to know, though, if New York is playing this season with a $77 M payroll. It could help put the season in proper perspective. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-23-2008, 09:51 PM	#23
Tasan College Starter Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Houston, or there about	Hey look, we have 7 league members watching the season right now, including both of our newest owners! Pretty good turnout for a delayed, Sunday night sim. __________________ 2011 Golden Scribes winner for best Interactive Dynasty

11-23-2008, 09:55 PM	#29
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Fine, I will drop it if he will. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-23-2008, 09:56 PM	#30
dacubz n00b Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago	I just want to see if my team sucks as much as it did before I got my hands on 'em. __________________ FOOL Columbus Crusaders Baseball Maelstrom Houston Astros WBH Bayamon Bulldogs Hardball Heroes Springfield Cubs

11-23-2008, 09:58 PM	#35
TimGuru High School Varsity Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Cape Cod, MA	For the record, I had a deal in place with Wyoming to clear all my salary overage plus a highly regarded first round pick from a recent draft. Since it is well known that we know each other in real life, I thought there would be a hue and cry that I traded Jae Won So, Elliot Brown, Arthur Shoemaker, some middle reliever, and Jesus Pena for a 4th rounder from his A level. So I said I would take the penalty and just live with the overage. I didn't touch my major league roster, it is well under 65 million. I still have several players with <1mil salaries on my AAA team and have my payroll under 65 now. __________________ FOOL: NY Panthers1974-88 ; Hyannis Patriots 2037-2055 hiatus FOOL-H: NY YANKEES 1903- FOOL-X: Cumberland Defenders 1985-

11-23-2008, 09:59 PM	#36
kaosfere College Prospect Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Chicagoland	PLAY BALL! __________________ FOOL: Toronto Osprey (1973-1988) 1161 - 1149 -- 1981 FOOL Champions, 1975 CL Champions Toronto Osprey (2001) 89-73 -- 2001 CL Champions SBL: Charlotte Monarchs (1992-1994) 237 - 186

11-23-2008, 10:02 PM	#41
dacubz n00b Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Chicago	If Alan's in his hotel, he's probably cracked his mini bar by now! __________________ FOOL Columbus Crusaders Baseball Maelstrom Houston Astros WBH Bayamon Bulldogs Hardball Heroes Springfield Cubs

11-23-2008, 10:03 PM	#42
Alan T Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Mass.	May 1st stats leaders: S. Patterson (RG) .382 A. Morales (ANN) 8 HR B.Barrett (SD) 25 RBI R. Fritz (RG) 6 wins D. Spencer (BAL) / K. O'Quinn (BOS) / F. Rodriguez (COL) 10 saves J. Trinidad (WYO) 1.15 ERA __________________ Couch to ??k - From the couch to a Marathon in roughly 18 months.

11-23-2008, 10:04 PM	#45
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	Well, how about them Buff Soldiers! __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

11-23-2008, 10:05 PM	#46
brittdad n00b Join Date: Nov 2008	Oh Oh, maybe too much rebuild. Scott

11-23-2008, 10:06 PM	#49
kaosfere College Prospect Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Chicagoland	Aw, man! I'm not even winning the race for the bottom! __________________ FOOL: Toronto Osprey (1973-1988) 1161 - 1149 -- 1981 FOOL Champions, 1975 CL Champions Toronto Osprey (2001) 89-73 -- 2001 CL Champions SBL: Charlotte Monarchs (1992-1994) 237 - 186

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)