2010 NCAA Tournament (and NIT) Thread

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

8-6 vs teams seeded 9th or higher.

You do realize that is good, right ? Having a winning record vs teams that collectively won 75-80% of their games is not exactly easy.

The other would be best conference, the Big 12:
Kansas 2-1
K St. 2-0
T A&M 1-2
Baylor 1-0
Mizz 0-2
Texas 2-0
OK St. No games

The Big 12 was 8-5 in non-conference games against the top 9 seeds, not exactly a crushing margin. I don't have time to do all the conferences, but saying that a conference "only" has a 8-6 record against the best 36 teams in the country is misleading. It implies that somehow a power conference would have done much better, but that is simply not the case - the top 9 seeds are that because they won most of their games.

You also seem to be using the losses of the bottom 3 to extrapolate that the top 5 have no shot of going to the final four. Those 5 teams went 7-3 against top 9 seeds.

Also, why cut it off at 9? That seems to be some cherry picking (like I did above by exlcluding Marquette and Louisville). Make it the top 11 for example, and you get SU's win vs Florida and Texas A&M's loss to Washington, thus flipflopping the half game difference between the two.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Samdari

You do realize that is good, right ? Having a winning record vs teams that collectively won 75-80% of their games is not exactly easy.

Yes I thought they did fairly well.

It basically told me what I figured out a lot from the BET.

Pitt, Marquette and Villanova are a tad overrated.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Also, why cut it off at 9? That seems to be some cherry picking (like I did above by exlcluding Marquette and Louisville). Make it the top 11 for example, and you get SU's win vs Florida and Texas A&M's loss to Washington, thus flipflopping the half game difference between the two.

I chose 9 because I figured them were the only teams realistically with a chance to beat them. I thought about going to 11 but it wouldnt have matter much. One team beat and 11 seed and lost to an 11 seed.

Georgetown lost to 11 seeded ODU.
I also forgot to include West Virginia's losing to Purdue.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just for the record, the Big 12 had the top record against the other power conferences (28-12) and the ACC is second (24-21). The Big East was third.

To be fair, a good amount of that nonconference schedule is the 10-game series with the Pac 10, and we sucked big time this year.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

cheer all you want Jeebs, UAB certainly deserved to win that game. Coastal really needs to get more physical if they want to take it to the next level.

UAB is a very good team. We may have swept them, but if they had made one more basket each game, they would have swept us. I don't think there's any dishonor in losing to them...

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

It basically told me ....

Villanova are a tad overrated.

Really? Two games out of 30, (really one, since I am assuming the win did not tell you they are overrated) told you all you needed to know about Villanova?

Not arguing for Villanova here, just surprised you would draw so much from that particular sample. If they had beaten Temple, would that have convinced you they were awesome.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Really? Two games out of 30, (really one, since I am assuming the win did not tell you they are overrated) told you all you needed to know about Villanova?

Not arguing for Villanova here, just surprised you would draw so much from that particular sample. If they had beaten Temple, would that have convinced you they were awesome.

You really want me to reply to something in which you took out a key piece of information from my quote?

It basically told me what I figured out a lot from the BET.

I've also seen nova play a few times this year and I thought their defense was very average and they depend too much on 1 player.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

You really want me to reply to something in which you took out a key piece of information from my quote?

It basically told me what I figured out a lot from the BET.

I've also seen nova play a few times this year and I thought their defense was very average and they depend too much on 1 player.

Villanova played 1 game in the BE tourney. That and the Temple loss tells you all you need to know about a team?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

What are you talking about? I LOVE the way that guy votes!

I can see you saying this with a giant smile on your face

SI

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Villanova played 1 game in the BE tourney. That and the Temple loss tells you all you need to know about a team?

What is your point exactly?

They are a 2 seed that has lost 5 of 7 games. They showed flaws in the Big East tournament and a loss to Temple in the non conference doesnt make things look any better.

I am not sure if you are arguing that Villanova is the team to beat or what?

[SportsDino]

I'll be watching my Spartans, with great trepidation.

MSU has been less than stellar at many points in the season, and always seems to fall flat in the big games, but the team has all the pieces (other than a dominating center perhaps) to crush just about anyone.

Biggest problem I keep seeing over and over is shooting, sometimes we just get on ugly shooting streaks where NOTHING will go in the damn hoop. Including point blank layups. Really distressing, particularly when the defense keeps making long stops and steals, but can't cash in unless its on the break.

I think ironically we'll beat Kansas only to lose to Georgetown/Ohio St.

Beating New Mexico State should be pretty solid, we chew up teams that think the game is all offense pretty consistently.

Maryland is a matchup that works in our favor, they are a good team but their weaknesses line up with our strengths.

Kansas is the crazy prediction I'll make, but we beat them last year and though the team is more dangerous I think we'll have a scheme that gives them fits.

However, if we do win that game I think we'll probably not have our heads in the right spot to win against the winner out of the other half of the regional. I'd prefer to face Georgetown, Ohio State is a terrible matchup for us, and I've seen little to give me hope from the game I did catch. Georgetown on the other hand is one of those teams we can knock out of their game and pull out the win.

All that said, this is a head case team this year... they could lose or win at any point and in any way.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Logan

Herb Pope of Seton Hall got ejected from their NIT game against Texas Tech for punching a Tech guy in the balls...twice, on alternating possessions.

That program is a complete fuckin mess.

Gonzalez fired.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't think you can use the transitive property when discussing college basketball. Just because team A beat team B and Team B beat team C it doesn't mean team A is better than C. When dealing with 18-20 year old kids there are a lot of other factors involved.

Man, I wish more people thought this way when talking college hoops. Again, it's one thing in college football where you have such a small sample size. But this is college basketball where everyone has blemishes on the record and it's about who is best built to handle the most different types of teams and situations.

(It's actually what "survival of the fittest" is truly about and not the twisted, warped version people believe today. It's not about the strongest and the biggest, but the most versatile. It's about the creature that's can withstand the most situations that it gets through. It's not, say, the tallest giraffes that can reach the tallest leaves because how often do you run across a tree that only the tallest giraffe can reach but the second tallest can't and thus dies? It's the one that is tall enough to eat from most trees, can withstand, say, a flash flood, is not necessarily the fastest but is faster than the slowest giraffe so it doesn't get eaten by predators, etc)

SI

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, I wish more people thought this way when talking college hoops. Again, it's one thing in college football where you have such a small sample size. But this is college basketball where everyone has blemishes on the record and it's about who is best built to handle the most different types of teams and situations.

(It's actually what "survival of the fittest" is truly about and not the twisted, warped version people believe today. It's not about the strongest and the biggest, but the most versatile. It's about the creature that's can withstand the most situations that it gets through. It's not, say, the tallest giraffes that can reach the tallest leaves because how often do you run across a tree that only the tallest giraffe can reach but the second tallest can't and thus dies? It's the one that is tall enough to eat from most trees, can withstand, say, a flash flood, is not necessarily the fastest but is faster than the slowest giraffe so it doesn't get eaten by predators, etc)

SI

Indeed! Figuring out how the conferences compare is a huge part of solving this equation.

[JPhillips]

Flood proof giraffes?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is for people interested which obviousy you arent interested in comparing conferences. Basically it sounds like you dont agree Seton Hall and UConn stink so why are you giving me shit about it?

Seton Hall and UConn have talent, but UConn obviously quit at the end of the season and Seton Hall was so dysfunctional that their most prominent player cock-punching an opponent twice wasn't an aberration, but a pattern of behavior that got the coach fired. The entire point is that Seton Hall's loss to Texas Tech has no more relevance to the comparison of B12 tournament teams to BE tournament teams than UConn's win over Texas did. Seton Hall's big wins were over ND (an over seeded 6 thats 50th in RPI) Louisville (a team no one has going Elite 8, 37th in RPI) and Pitt (not even close to Pitt's worst loss). They lost all their games to Syracuse, Nova, Marquette and WV (and the rematch vs. ND).

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

Flood proof giraffes?

Sorry, I don't really know my giraffe habitats so it's possible they never have to worry about such a thing. But the metaphor was working so good up to that point

So to bring this all back, uh, a flood proof giraffe is like, um, uh, BYU! Yeah, that's it. They live in the desert and are tall and pale?

SI

[Dr. Sak]

Yeah Pitt's worse loss has to be to Indiana.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

In case anyone wants them, good location for tourney coverage maps for those of you that don't get more than one channel during the tourney (Thank you Time Warner).

Nothing found for News 2010 Cbs-ncaa-tournament-coverage-map-central #Friday

[jbergey22]

Im not disagreeing with you all that much.

Didnt UConn beating Texas kind of foreshadow the end of the season for Texas though?

I agree you cant gain much information from one game but you take information from a lot of different games and gain information.

Texas Tech beating Seton Hall does not mean every team in the Big East is overated but it could mean(combined with other knowledge) that the Big 12 has played tougher competition than the Big East. This is all I am trying to figure out. The Big East lost a lot of great players from last year however it had seemed like they were still doing fine this year. I am simply trying to figure out in my own head if the Big East is as strong as people seem to think.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Louisville (a team no one has going Elite 8,

Again, what people will come up with for evidence when trying to justify their preconceived notions is amazing.

Nobody picking Louisville to the elite 8 is not a piece of data. Noone picks any of the 8/9's to the elite 8, primarily because most people pick the 1's to win brackets.

Which of the 8/9 seeds are people commonly picking to the elite eight?

[dacman]

I always have 2-4 teams seeded 8-12 making deep runs in my picks.

This year I have Louisville in the Final Four. So do 1.6% of Yahoo brackets.

[panerd]

Originally Posted by dacman

I always have 2-4 teams seeded 8-12 making deep runs in my picks.

This year I have Louisville in the Final Four. So do 1.6% of Yahoo brackets.

Honest question... Do you win very often? It seems like it's always 1's and 2's in the final four. And in the years where George Mason makes it it doesn't seem possible any non-alumni would have them going that far.

[dacman]

Not usually, but people who pick too much chalk don't usually either unless its one of those rare tournaments that is mostly chalk. If you pick the right winner, having an upset or two picked correctly makes a huge difference. In the end, it's really more for fun / water cooler talk / bragging rights than anything. I did have GMU in the sweet sixteen that year (see it's started already!).

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Rumors coming out of Connecticut that Calhoun will step down at the end of the season and that Mark Turgeon is the primary target and will be offered a very lucrative offer.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Rumors coming out of Connecticut that Calhoun will step down at the end of the season and that Mark Turgeon is the primary target and will be offered a very lucrative offer.

This is after he signed an extension, and very loudly, publicly announced he was returning on Friday?

[molson]

Originally Posted by dacman

Not usually, but people who pick too much chalk don't usually either unless its one of those rare tournaments that is mostly chalk. If you pick the right winner, having an upset or two picked correctly makes a huge difference. In the end, it's really more for fun / water cooler talk / bragging rights than anything. I did have GMU in the sweet sixteen that year (see it's started already!).

It depends on the size of the pool. If the pool is small, picking the higher seeded team in every matchup (I refuse to say "chalk") gives you a decent chance to win. If you get cute and pick some upsets, odds are that you'll miss that upset, and miss another upset that actually happens.

Of course, if you submit a bracket to ESPN.com, you might as well be wacky, because the only way to win is basically to have a perfect bracket.

I wish there were more pools out there that rewarded picking upsets. Something like getting 1 point for picking a #1 seed, 16 points for picking a #16 seed, etc. I don't know how the math holds up if you did the rest of the pool like that (or if it would ever make sense to pick the favorite in that setup), but it's a start

But ya, regardless of the size of the pool, you have to pick some upsets, because reminding everyone that you picked GMU to get far is way more fun that actually winnning.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Samdari

This is after he signed an extension, and very loudly, publicly announced he was returning on Friday?

The rate at which this board gets its college coaching/conference movement rumors correct is somewhere right around 0% (give or take 1%)

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by panerd

Honest question... Do you win very often? It seems like it's always 1's and 2's in the final four. And in the years where George Mason makes it it doesn't seem possible any non-alumni would have them going that far.

Colin Cowherd puts it perfectly when he says he picks the chalk every year, they are the chalk for a reason

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by molson

The rate at which this board gets its college coaching/conference movement rumors correct is somewhere right around 0% (give or take 1%)

I'm betting that Seton Hall will have a new coach before next season.
You heard it here first.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Man, I wish more people thought this way when talking college hoops. Again, it's one thing in college football where you have such a small sample size. But this is college basketball where everyone has blemishes on the record and it's about who is best built to handle the most different types of teams and situations.

(It's actually what "survival of the fittest" is truly about and not the twisted, warped version people believe today. It's not about the strongest and the biggest, but the most versatile. It's about the creature that's can withstand the most situations that it gets through. It's not, say, the tallest giraffes that can reach the tallest leaves because how often do you run across a tree that only the tallest giraffe can reach but the second tallest can't and thus dies? It's the one that is tall enough to eat from most trees, can withstand, say, a flash flood, is not necessarily the fastest but is faster than the slowest giraffe so it doesn't get eaten by predators, etc)

SI

I would have gone with the tallest giraffe would not be the most optimal because it can be spotted easily by predators, but point well taken.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

This is after he signed an extension, and very loudly, publicly announced he was returning on Friday?

I had heard that health may still be a consideration and that nothing is firm. I'm not sure the extension confirms anything.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I had heard that health may still be a consideration and that nothing is firm. I'm not sure the extension confirms anything.

Its not just the extension, its the accompanying press release from Calhoun that says in no uncertain terms he expects to be back for next year and beyond. It is quite strongly worded. What is the point of issuing that weeks before you resign but months before next signing day? Any recruits you bamboozle now will be gone once you leave, and any you sign in the spring will be allowed to go elsewhere, a la the Memphis class.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Its not just the extension, its the accompanying press release from Calhoun that says in no uncertain terms he expects to be back for next year and beyond. It is quite strongly worded. What is the point of issuing that weeks before you resign but months before next signing day?

Y'know, there is always the possibility that doctors give someone new information that causes a change in plans. Or family members for that matter.

I hope none of that isn't the case but that was actually what came to my mind first, not any sort of recruiting related subterfuge.

[Matthean]

Originally Posted by SportsDino

I'll be watching my Spartans, with great trepidation.

If not for Izzo, they would have been my lock of a pick for the 5-12 upset. Local Lansing paper said it's a team that even the fans know how flawed it is. I just don't see an Izzo team being knocked out of the first round when this team has talent. I think they are the type of team that you either believe in, or you don't and that is summed up by picking them to win the 5-12 matchup, or not. If Kansas wasn't there as a Sweet 16 matchup, I think they start to make waves, but I think Kansas will be too tough of an out for them.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, there is always the possibility that doctors give someone new information that causes a change in plans. Or family members for that matter.

I hope none of that isn't the case but that was actually what came to my mind first, not any sort of recruiting related subterfuge.

Yes, but it also came along with him bitching about how his health was being used against him in recruiting (which to me is valid when the coach has legit issues and has missed a good amount of time, comparitively) and he had heard from a bunch of players that they were no longer considering UConn because of the uncertainty over his future.

Sounds like the truth hurt.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by mauboy1

Turnovers late are killing W&M and some bad 3-point shots..

Ah, well.

Yup, we played our game well for the most part, but the pressure got to us with 2 starters out (one missed the entire game, which when I saw our 2nd best player was out I knew we were in trouble, the other fouled out). If Kitts is in there instead of Hess, the killer late turnover probably doesn't happen.

That being said, I think anyone that watched the game knows our team belonged there. No big messages to take out of the game as far as overrated/underrated/whatever - two teams played well and duked it out, UNC won.

Originally Posted by digamma

That ended up working out really well for the NIT. Fun game to watch in Carmichael with the throw-back unis on UNC. Looked like the atmosphere even gave UNC a little desire to play.

Sorry to wade, bu hopefully you had a good time. It seemed like a great game to witness.

It was a GREAT game to watch. My wife and I left the game saying exactly that. It sucked to lose, but it was an amazing sporting experience. In a weird way, the UNC crowd seemed to feed off of the small, but energized W&M crowd. It definitely wasn't what I hear of UNC crowds being - they were very into it, vocal, etc, etc. One of my top live sporting experiences, probably my top in which "my team" lost.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by wade moore

It was a GREAT game to watch. My wife and I left the game saying exactly that. It sucked to lose, but it was an amazing sporting experience. In a weird way, the UNC crowd seemed to feed off of the small, but energized W&M crowd. It definitely wasn't what I hear of UNC crowds being - they were very into it, vocal, etc, etc. One of my top live sporting experiences, probably my top in which "my team" lost.

Most likely because it was in Carmichael and therefore the wine-and-cheesers were not nearly as prevalent in the crowd. It's very noticeable when they play at the Smith Center unless they're up for a really big team like Duke. I remember several years ago when UNC was playing Maryland the night after the big snowstorm hit the area (2000, I just looked up). The inability for most of the big wheels to get into Chapel Hill for the game resulted in the arena staff letting anybody who could get there sit wherever they liked. This resulted in the students getting most of the courtside seats. The Heels fed off the crowd to rally from a huge deficit to win. It actually motivated some gradual shifting of seats in the Smith Center to getting better seats for students, though still nothing on the order of what the students get at State, Duke, and Maryland.

One of the few things that NC State has gotten right compared to UNC over the years is that when they moved into the RBC Center, they kept the courtside seats for the students. It actually works out well since the courtside seats in the RBC Center are the temporary ones removed for hockey, so the major donors still get their good seats a few rows up (above the wall where the rink would be located) and not have to worry about students blocking much of the view.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Matthean

If not for Izzo, they would have been my lock of a pick for the 5-12 upset. Local Lansing paper said it's a team that even the fans know how flawed it is. I just don't see an Izzo team being knocked out of the first round when this team has talent. I think they are the type of team that you either believe in, or you don't and that is summed up by picking them to win the 5-12 matchup, or not. If Kansas wasn't there as a Sweet 16 matchup, I think they start to make waves, but I think Kansas will be too tough of an out for them.

I hope you're right because Kansas is a bit worried about Michigan State looming there for us in the Sweet 16 precisely because of Izzo. If you can take all aspects of the college coaching that don't include recruiting, he's the best in the business and it may not even be close. His teams always play above their talent level, are always prepared, and is a good gameday coach. Of course, recruiting is part of the total coaching package in college and he's not on the level of some of the elite recruiters but he's one hell of a coach.

SI

[sterlingice]

Every year it seems I have about 5 games I'd like a crystal ball for because I think they will have a couple of round implications.

Marquette-Washington: Here's a pretty simple one to get us started. The winner beats New Mexico to get to the Sweet 16. Tho they almost certainly have the pleasure of then losing the next game to West Virginia.

Kansas State-BYU: This assumes BYU gets past Florida and KSU over North Texas, but I think both are a fairly reasonable bet. I think whoever wins that game also wins the next one, be it against Pitt, Xavier, or even Minnesota. I think either team even has a chance against Syracuse to make it to the Final Four.

Richmond-St Mary's: Two excellent squads and I think the winner has a really legit chance of knocking off Villanova. But, just like everything in the region, this is a mess and I think whoever loses to Baylor but I don't have much confidence in that pick either. Hell, if there was anything of substance in the entire South, I'd have them knocking off Duke. But as that doesn't appear to be the case, I reluctantly have to put the Blue Devils to Indy.

Kentucky-Wisconsin: I don't like Kentucky as they're just too young to me but I'm just not that excited about Wisconsin, either. But, man, do the computers love the Badgers and I don't understand why. The winner of this game has the "pleasure" of facing WVU and that three team, two game "playoff" will determine who beats Duke (or whatever filth comes from the South) and gets to the national title game.

I guess it's just 4 this year but, again, if I had those answers, I would feel really confident about my bracket.

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

4 hours to go........

****mouth watering****

[sterlingice]

I can't wait

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

***trumpet fanfare sounds***

***camera pans up to desk***

"Hi, I'm Greg Gumbel. Welcome to the 2010 NCAA Basketball Championship coverage on CBS."

***MBBF giggles like a school girl***

[henry296]

For the first time, I have the March Madness package on DirecTV, so I can watch all of the games.

[sterlingice]

"It is our Xth year of broadcasting the tournament here on CBS. (Now about a million commercials and then we'll get you to the first games)"

SI

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

"It is our Xth year of broadcasting the tournament here on CBS. (Now about a million commercials and then we'll get you to the first games)"

SI

I like the part where they send the telecast to the first game starting at that time bracket followed by the caviat that those fans waiting for Game B, C and D will be switched over to their games before tip-off. I can just see some Lehigh fan this afternoon screaming "We don't get to watch the Lehigh game?!?!?!" and missing his footnote.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The two teams you refer to as "stink" have beaten Pitt, West Virginia, Villanova, Georgetown, Notre Dame and Louisville this year.

Yeah Seton Hall has already fired their coach and UConn was lucky to survive Northeastern at home. You are right, they are SO GOOD.

[MacroGuru]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Kansas State-BYU: This assumes BYU gets past Florida and KSU over North Texas, but I think both are a fairly reasonable bet. I think whoever wins that game also wins the next one, be it against Pitt, Xavier, or even Minnesota. I think either team even has a chance against Syracuse to make it to the Final Four.

I am a BYU homer and to hear everyone hand the Florida game to BYU scares me...In fact, I do not have a lot of faith in them to win the 1st round game. If they do win, I see them beating K-State due to playing the same type of ball and the confidence builder needed from that first win, but then lose the next game.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by lynchjm24

Yeah Seton Hall has already fired their coach and UConn was lucky to survive Northeastern at home. You are right, they are SO GOOD.

Did I ever say they were "SO GOOD?" or did I miss what I wrote?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I like the part where they send the telecast to the first game starting at that time bracket followed by the caviat that those fans waiting for Game B, C and D will be switched over to their games before tip-off. I can just see some Lehigh fan this afternoon screaming "We don't get to watch the Lehigh game?!?!?!" and missing his footnote.

When do Mizzou/Clemson play? I'm excited to watch this style of game?