Big 10 Expansion Thread -Big Ten ready for a playoff .. finally?

DeToxRox · 01-31-2010, 02:52 PM

Lots of smoke coming from insiders at a ton of Big 10 schools, as well as Pitt. It seems WAY too early for this to be true but some people on a Michigan forum tied in to the AD offices seem to think it might happen very soon.

DeToxRox · 01-31-2010, 02:52 PM

Dola, if this is true, it'd be effective in 2012 apparently.

Pumpy Tudors · 01-31-2010, 02:53 PM

insiders

DeToxRox · 01-31-2010, 02:57 PM

I still can't see this being true, Pitt doesn't fit much of the criteria that the Big 10 seems to be looking for. They won't be expanding into a new market or any of that. That said, it would make sense if they decided to move to 14 teams which is something people have said could be a real possibility.

If this did happen though, the Big East would most assuredly be dead in the water.

Solecismic · 01-31-2010, 03:06 PM

I think it would be an excellent choice. Academically, it's a good fit, and that's an important factor. It strengthens existing geographic areas. Travel costs for minor sports were a concern with the other two schools under consideration (Missouri, Rutgers). They were never going to pull off adding Texas or Notre Dame.

I hope they can put it in place by the 2011 football season.

Young Drachma · 01-31-2010, 03:25 PM

Seems way too soon for that. Internet smoke, much?

DeToxRox · 01-31-2010, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Seems way too soon for that. Internet smoke, much?

I'm assuming so as well but when two different guys who only post info they have a legit source on post it looks like it might happen it causes me to take pause. Now they have been wrong at times in the past but they usually will take the time to explain the situation.

But I agree it seems incredibly soon for this. Who knows though.

Big Fo · 01-31-2010, 03:41 PM

You guys think there's any chance the Big East's BCS slot might be taken away if they lost one of their stronger programs?

Chief Rum · 01-31-2010, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fo

You guys think there's any chance the Big East's BCS slot might be taken away if they lost one of their stronger programs?

Maybe, maybe not.

Let's say this happens. The Pac 10 would then be the only "big time" conference without 12 teams and a championship game. There has been talk recently (with a new commish in place) that they might be more open to exploring that than they have in the past.

Why does that matter? Well, if the Big East loses its BCS slot, who gets that spot (assuming they don't just make at an at large)? The natural next choice would seem to be the Mountain West.

But if the Pac 10 now feels heavy pressure to expand, it's almost certain they're going to look at the Mountain West schools first, probably starting with BYU and/or Utah. If they do that, the MWC probably falls below the Big East, which will no doubt pick up a replacement from somewhere for Pitt, and the Big East would keep its BCS slot.

Or the BCS might just make it an at large regardless.

Solecismic · 01-31-2010, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Fo

You guys think there's any chance the Big East's BCS slot might be taken away if they lost one of their stronger programs?

That was the worry after the exodus in 2004. So criteria was set up. So far, the Big East hasn't even come close to losing its slot. Louisville, Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida have been assets on the football field.

Eventually, though, they will have to expand and there might be that risk. After kicking Temple out, do they beg them to return? Can Memphis bring up its football program? Marshall? Central Florida? There aren't many candidates.

DeToxRox · 01-31-2010, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

That was the worry after the exodus in 2004. So criteria was set up. So far, the Big East hasn't even come close to losing its slot. Louisville, Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida have been assets on the football field.

Eventually, though, they will have to expand and there might be that risk. After kicking Temple out, do they beg them to return? Can Memphis bring up its football program? Marshall? Central Florida? There aren't many candidates.

If this happened, the biggest worry is the domino effect on the other teams. I wouldn't be shocked if the ACC offered two of UConn, Rutgers, WVU and Syracuse. Hell I could see the SEC offered USF and WVU. The Big East losing Pitt can get by, the Big East losing Pitt and possibly two other teams means the death of Big East football.

Lathum · 01-31-2010, 04:08 PM

I thnnik from a football POV East Carolina may be a nice fit for the Big East.

Young Drachma · 01-31-2010, 04:10 PM

Even though Temple isn't all that great, it'd alleviate the MAC's problem of 13 teams and would be the easiest move to make, especially since they've committed themselves to upgrade their facilities, play at an NFL stadium and so forth.

I think, if a team did leave now -- and it seems unlikely Pitt would leave WVU -- the Big East football conference would probably split from the basketball league, but lease back the name, add 4 new teams to get to 12. Probably UCF, Temple another team from C-USA or the possibility that's been suggested here which might actually work -- poach the two new FCS programs coming online over the next few years from major southern markets. I'm talking Georgia State and UNC-Charlotte.

No, neither of them would be particularly good out of the gate, but both of those schools would never find a better deal, it'd spread the reach of the league a bit and while it'd weaken it somewhat, it might help programs like Louisville rebound faster and keep Cincy and Rutgers ascending, too.

I doubt a conference will lose a bid though, seems with the new process, they'll be assessing some nebulous criteria they won't release and adding a conference to shut folks up.

It would give Penn State a travel partner and an in-state rival, but...I still think the Big 10 stated their intentions a while ago and now they're just throwing up a bunch of smoke before revealing what they were planning to do all along.

Young Drachma · 01-31-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

If this happened, the biggest worry is the domino effect on the other teams. I wouldn't be shocked if the ACC offered two of UConn, Rutgers, WVU and Syracuse. Hell I could see the SEC offered USF and WVU. The Big East losing Pitt can get by, the Big East losing Pitt and possibly two other teams means the death of Big East football.

Or this. The conference just dissolves and the teams head elsewhere. That'd probably make the most sense. Merging with another conference or something and just effectively killing the whole deal off.

I imagine, no matter what, the Big East folks aren't going to be blindsided this time by a team leaving and that they've got contingency plans in place for whoever decides to bolt.

DeToxRox · 01-31-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Even though Temple isn't all that great, it'd alleviate the MAC's problem of 13 teams and would be the easiest move to make, especially since they've committed themselves to upgrade their facilities, play at an NFL stadium and so forth.

I think, if a team did leave now -- and it seems unlikely Pitt would leave WVU -- the Big East football conference would probably split from the basketball league, but lease back the name, add 4 new teams to get to 12. Probably UCF, Temple another team from C-USA or the possibility that's been suggested here which might actually work -- poach the two new FCS programs coming online over the next few years from major southern markets. I'm talking Georgia State and UNC-Charlotte.

No, neither of them would be particularly good out of the gate, but both of those schools would never find a better deal, it'd spread the reach of the league a bit and while it'd weaken it somewhat, it might help programs like Louisville rebound faster and keep Cincy and Rutgers ascending, too.

I doubt a conference will lose a bid though, seems with the new process, they'll be assessing some nebulous criteria they won't release and adding a conference to shut folks up.

It would give Penn State a travel partner and an in-state rival, but...I still think the Big 10 stated their intentions a while ago and now they're just throwing up a bunch of smoke before revealing what they were planning to do all along.

I agree it's probably all smoke, but if this is true, then it lends credence to the fact that they were adamant on getting the best mix of academics and all around athletics rather then expansion.

I still wouldn't be shocked if Pitt joined the Big 10 that they still didn't keep an open mind to expanding to 14 teams and adding Rutgers and Syracuse or something like that.

miked · 01-31-2010, 04:46 PM

Why would the Big 10 want another poor traveling, mediocre football team?

stevew · 01-31-2010, 05:00 PM

This is Sak's worst nightmare when Pitt beats Penn State. Even if it only happens twice a decade.

Suburban Rhythm · 01-31-2010, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

This is Sak's worst nightmare when Pitt beats Penn State. Even if it only happens twice a decade.

JoePa will find someway to get out of playing them the first 10 years of conference play.

Dr. Sak · 01-31-2010, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

This is Sak's worst nightmare when Pitt beats Penn State. Even if it only happens twice a decade.

Hah I still haven't heard the end of it. But once you bring up the fact that they have had 2 10 win seasons in 28 years and Paterno has 23 victories to their 7 of theirs over PSU, it shuts them up. However I am tired of hearing them say that they could be a top tier team in the Big Ten year in and year out. In basketball yes...in football...keep dreaming.

Pitt beat Penn State one time in their last 8 meetings and they beat arguably the worst Penn State team in Paterno's coaching career by a score of 12-0...not a huge feat by any means. But Pitt really doesn't have much to cheer about when it comes to football.

dawgfan · 01-31-2010, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But if the Pac 10 now feels heavy pressure to expand, it's almost certain they're going to look at the Mountain West schools first, probably starting with BYU and/or Utah.

Utah is a possibility; BYU is not. It would take a monumental shift in conference priorities and attitudes before BYU would be considered for the conference - it's far more likely the Pac-10 will attempt to pry Colorado away from the Big-12 and grab Utah as the 12th team.

bronconick · 01-31-2010, 06:21 PM

Pitt doesn't make any sense. They don't add a state where they can charge 1.10 for the BTN instead of .10, they don't add any kind of tv market. It gets them to twelve, but I doubt it adds more than the conference title game to the coffers, which makes it a net loss.

Swaggs · 01-31-2010, 06:29 PM

I'm not too worried about the Big East losing its automatic bid if it only loses one team. With Miami gone, there really isn't one team carrying the league. I am more worried about the Big 10 or ACC deciding that 14 schools is the way to go. That would kill the Big East and probably really kill WVU, as Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, and Pitt would almost certainly find a home in that scenario.

I'm really hoping that the Big 10 just plucks away one Big 12 team and calls it a day. If the Big 10 grabs Missouri or Nebraska, it won't be a huge loss to the Big 12 (it will be a loss, but not a death blow, by any means) and they can just replace them and keep the 12-school status quo. If the Big 12 decides to go to 14 and only takes one Big East school, I think the ACC will do likewise. So, say the Big 10 goes to 14 and picks up Pitt, Mizzou, and Nebraska -- the ACC will probably go all out for Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers or (I have heard, if they are willing to up the football program) Villanova. That would leave WVU, Louisville, Cincy, USF, and maybe Rutgers to pick up the pieces and that scenario doesn't sound too appealing.

I think the elephant in the room is what Texas does. The Big 10 could potentially cause a domino effect that would largely destroy both the Big East and Big 12 if it goes to 14 and grabs, say, Texas, Nebraska, and Missouri and then the ACC takes 2 of Pitt, Cuse, UConn, or Rutgers.

cartman · 01-31-2010, 06:32 PM

I think with all the animosity between Texas and Nebraska left over from the founding of the Big 12, I'd be surprised to see them both leave to the same conference.

bronconick · 01-31-2010, 06:33 PM

Missouri would be potentially damaging to the Big XII's TV contracts. Kansas City and St. Louis are the two largest tv markets outside of Texas, I think.

Swaggs · 01-31-2010, 06:37 PM

Well, honestly, Texas probably brings enough to the table that they could probably, if not dictate, give a lot of input as to who else, if any, to bring.

Swaggs · 01-31-2010, 06:38 PM

BTW, I haven't heard much about this in the past few days, but last week I had heard that Pitt, along with Rutgers and Missouri had "applied" to the Big 10. Not sure what exactly that entails, but it is not too surprising.

yacovfb · 01-31-2010, 06:46 PM

I'm pretty doubtful of this as being anything more than an internet rumor. Pitt's rivals guy hasn't heard anything. I guess we'll know for sure by the end of the week.

Still, I'm split on this move for Pitt - obviously it would be a good move us $$ wise and football wise (better bowl tie ins) but the bball would take a hit. Dixon wasn't too keen on the move when it first was talked about a month or two ago. Pitt's entire recruiting base for Bball is in BE territory (Pa, NJ, NYC, MD/DC/VA) so that would take a hit.

Ideally, the B10 will either take ND or Mizzou and everything can stay status quo w/ the Big East. Still, if it has to be a BE team leaving, I'd hope it was Pitt because Syracuse would be a big loss. If it's Rutgers, then...meh...they can be replaced fairly easily.

Chief Rum · 01-31-2010, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Utah is a possibility; BYU is not. It would take a monumental shift in conference priorities and attitudes before BYU would be considered for the conference - it's far more likely the Pac-10 will attempt to pry Colorado away from the Big-12 and grab Utah as the 12th team.

Because BYU is a religious school? Or because it would put the conference in only one new (and not large TV market)? I'm familiar with the old arguments. It's why they haven't expanded yet in the past. My suggestion is that were the Big Ten to do this, there would be new pressure on the Pac 10 to adapt--and that means the old rules might be in for some adjusting.

So I'm not so ready to throw out BYU as a potential candidate. I'm not sure how much the old landscape would still be applicable.

I do think Colorado is a possibility, except it's not going to be easy to do that. Competively, Colorado might be for that, but on the books, they may not. With Utah and Colorado, the Pac 10 could negotiate better bowl and TV deals--but they need the better bowl and TV deals to lure Colorado from the Bid 12. Catch 22.

Swaggs · 01-31-2010, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yacovfb

Ideally, the B10 will either take ND or Mizzou and everything can stay status quo w/ the Big East. Still, if it has to be a BE team leaving, I'd hope it was Pitt because Syracuse would be a big loss. If it's Rutgers, then...meh...they can be replaced fairly easily.

Notre Dame leaving the Big East for the Big 10, on good terms w/ the BE, would probably be the best move overall. It obviously would not hurt the football side of things and it would give the football members and 8 to 7 voting edge, so that the conference could add a 9th football member without having to split or make the conference any larger.

Of course, we all know that Notre Dame will never make that move.

tarcone · 01-31-2010, 09:22 PM

Here are some links to some reports

Pitt to Big Ten? | Campus Corner

Big Ten Sets Sights on Pittsburgh - Jody DiPerna - Fan Overboard - True/Slant

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...d-the-panthers

Atocep · 01-31-2010, 09:53 PM

I can't see how Pitt would be a good choice for the Big 10 and I don't think the loss of them kills the Big East by any means. I don't think there's any one team that's holding the Big East together. It certainly hurts, but Pitt's fanbase isn't much better than some C-USA teams; which is why this is an odd choice for the Big 10.

As was mentioned earlier, the worry would be a potential domino effect. If some of the other schools see it as time to bail on the conference then there could be trouble.

For the Big East ECU or UCF probably makes the most sense followed by Memphis if they're serious about improving their facilities and marketing the football program, but Memphis isn't ready right now. I have a hard time seeing Temple coming back. Marshall is struggling to keep up with facilities/revenue in CUSA so they'd be a terrible pick for the Big East at this point.

In the end, if this is the only team leaving then the Big East is fine. They aren't losing their BCS bid over this as no non-BCS conference is really close to the Big East from top to bottom.

dawgfan · 01-31-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Because BYU is a religious school? Or because it would put the conference in only one new (and not large TV market)?

Both of those plus the academic argument - BYU is not a major research institution.

The Pac-10 is very traditional, and they will exhaust every resource before compromising their ideals, even if it means sticking with 10 teams.

Solecismic · 01-31-2010, 10:52 PM

That's true. After the Big Ten, which is obsessive about international research universities, the Pac Ten is the only conference that seems to care at all. So they would be careful about expansion.

Based on academics, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah and New Mexico are in the top 500 in the world. BYU is in the top 600 (as is Oregon State).

Purely from a football stadium size perspective (and size can usually be increased), there aren't too many BCS schools with stadiums smaller than 50,000. Those include... Big Ten (Northwestern 49), Big 12 (none), SEC (Vanderbilt 39), Pac Ten (Oregon State 45, Washington State 35), ACC (Boston College 44, Duke 33, Wake Forest 31), Big East (Louisville 42, Connecticut 40, Cincinnati 35).

Of the possible Pac Ten schools, Colorado State plays in a stadium with 34,000 capacity, BYU 65, Utah 45, New Mexico 38. For the Big East, UAB (71), Temple plays in the Eagles' stadium (68), Memphis (62), Central Florida (45), East Carolina (43), Marshall (38), Southern Miss (36).

Swaggs · 01-31-2010, 10:53 PM

If the Pac 10 is looking to upgrade its bowl ties (which are pretty mediocre after the Rose Bowl, IMO), then BYU probably has the best travelling fan base and brings the most TV viewers of the non-BCS teams.

Wolfpack · 01-31-2010, 10:55 PM

Hmm. If it is Pittsburgh, what would be the split? East/West? North/South? An ACC-style "ignore geography" split?

East/West probably would split up the Indiana schools in some way with one school going east with Michigan, MSU, PSU, Pitt, and OSU.

North/South (if taken literally) would most likely split Northwestern from Illlinois to go north with Michigan, MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota.

Crossover games could be used to keep Indiana/Purdue (in an east/west split), Michigan/OSU, or Illinois/Northwestern (both in a possible north/south split) together, but after them, it's hard to pick meaningful permanent crossover games.

If geography were put aside, an arrangement like the following could be done:
Division A: Michigan, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana
Division B: Michigan State, Illinois, Penn State, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Purdue

The best crossover fits seem to be Michigan-MSU, OSU-Illinois, Pittsburgh-Penn State, Minnesota-Wisconsin, Indiana-Purdue, and Iowa-Northwestern. Depending on whether the Big 10 would like to keep Michigan-OSU as a possible rematch game after the regular season (and thus split them into separate divisions), this could be a good way to preserve as many rivalries and trophy games as possible.

Lots of NFL stadiums in the Big 10 footprint to hold a champioship game in: Heinz Field, Paul Brown Stadium, Browns Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, Ford Field, Soldier Field, Lambeau Field, and the Metrodome. Of these, probably Soldier Field and Lucas Oil Stadium, being centrally located and easily accessible, would host the championship more often than other places more to the edge of the conference footprint (and I doubt the Packers would put Lambeau up for bid).

Chief Rum · 01-31-2010, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Both of those plus the academic argument - BYU is not a major research institution.

The Pac-10 is very traditional, and they will exhaust every resource before compromising their ideals, even if it means sticking with 10 teams.

Like I said--new pressures. Nothing goes as far as money. If the Pac 10 thinks they're going to get squeezed out of any big time BCS money, they'll sacrifice whatever to get that 12th team.

Chief Rum · 01-31-2010, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Swaggs

If the Pac 10 is looking to upgrade its bowl ties (which are pretty mediocre after the Rose Bowl, IMO), then BYU probably has the best travelling fan base and brings the most TV viewers of the non-BCS teams.

They added the Alamo starting next year, so a second Jan 1st and later bowl game (finally). Didn't lose the bigger ones they already had (Holiday, Sun) or the next teir they have (Vegas, Emerald). So they are improving a little.

Still got room to get better there, though.

the_meanstrosity · 02-01-2010, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick

Missouri would be potentially damaging to the Big XII's TV contracts. Kansas City and St. Louis are the two largest tv markets outside of Texas, I think.

The only group interested in moving Missouri to the Big 10 is Missouri. They wouldn't add much to the Big 10 aside from St. Louis. KC is one of the Big 12's hub cities and a lot of that is because of Kansas, Missouri, KSU, Nebraska, etc. So if Missouri were to leave KC would still have a vested interest in the Big 12 because of the Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, etc fans in the area.

The thing that nobody talks about is that for all of Missouri's complaining about the Big 12 they were one of the key voters who voted a clown like Steve Hatchell to the Big 12 commissioner role in the first place. The guy sunk the Southwest Conference and yet some how he was nominated to be the Big 12 commissioner? It's been down hill since then. I'm hoping one day the Big 12 will actually hire a competent commissioner.

Solecismic · 02-01-2010, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

The only group interested in moving Missouri to the Big 10 is Missouri. They wouldn't add much to the Big 10 aside from St. Louis. KC is one of the Big 12's hub cities and a lot of that is because of Kansas, Missouri, KSU, Nebraska, etc. So if Missouri were to leave KC would still have a vested interest in the Big 12 because of the Kansas, Nebraska, Kansas State, etc fans in the area.

It would just be about gaining a foothold of some sort in Kansas City. Though, for reference, Kansas is almost a suburb, and Kansas State and Missouri are both almost two hours away.

It's hard to find schools that could be part of a major conference.

the_meanstrosity · 02-01-2010, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

It would just be about gaining a foothold of some sort in Kansas City. Though, for reference, Kansas is almost a suburb, and Kansas State and Missouri are both almost two hours away.

It's hard to find schools that could be part of a major conference.

There are much better cities to get a foothold in than Kansas City. I love Kansas City as much as anybody, but I highly doubt that was one of their big reasons to expand, lol. Syracuse would make better sense if you're wanting a foothold in a major city. Texas would obviously make the best sense, but that wasn't likely to happen. I even saw rumors of the Big Ten looking to add three teams (Nebraska, Kansas, and Missouri) to go to 14. That one made no sense at all IMHO. If you're going to add three then why not Texas, Texas A&M, and one more?

This is the second time where Missouri has all but begged to be let into the Big Ten and weren't invited. This instance was actually worse as they publically proclaimed their interest and criticized the Big 12. Not that the Big 12 shouldn't be criticized, but it's a bit false coming from Missouri given they have sided with the south schools from the beginning and thus they made their bed and should lie in it.

The Big 12 has a great opportunity in the very near future to put themselves into position to be one of the top three conferences in the country. Their next tv contract is going to be looked at very closely given the recent deals of the Big Ten and SEC. I honestly don't have a lot of faith in the current Big 12 leadership, but I'm hoping even they can't screw this up.

RainMaker · 02-01-2010, 02:05 AM

With a 12th team, what site would get the Big 10 Championship game? My guess is Indy, although it would suck to have both the basketball and football there.

Chief Rum · 02-01-2010, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RainMaker

With a 12th team, what site would get the Big 10 Championship game? My guess is Indy, although it would suck to have both the basketball and football there.

Why not Soldier Field? Or whatever they call the Spaceship Stadium now? Or maybe the new place the Lions play? There are a couple other spots I think they could go.

Young Drachma · 02-01-2010, 02:45 AM

New Meadowlands Stadium when Rutgers joins, not Pitt.

miked · 02-01-2010, 08:23 AM

I still don't understand the appeal of PIT...

Mizzou B-ball fan · 02-01-2010, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_meanstrosity

This is the second time where Missouri has all but begged to be let into the Big Ten and weren't invited. This instance was actually worse as they publically proclaimed their interest and criticized the Big 12. Not that the Big 12 shouldn't be criticized, but it's a bit false coming from Missouri given they have sided with the south schools from the beginning and thus they made their bed and should lie in it.

The Big 12 has a great opportunity in the very near future to put themselves into position to be one of the top three conferences in the country. Their next tv contract is going to be looked at very closely given the recent deals of the Big Ten and SEC. I honestly don't have a lot of faith in the current Big 12 leadership, but I'm hoping even they can't screw this up.

1. Mizzou's board has NOT asked to be invited to the Big 10. That's simply false. The governor has openly said that he'd like to see Mizzou go to the B10, but the board and the AD are both against it.

2. Mizzou has actually benefitted from the current deal due to the structure that rewards TV appearances and results. Mizzou has received more over the last 5 years than they would have if all revenues were split equally over that same time.

3. The current Big 12 financial income is peanuts compared to the Big 10. The pot to be divided in the Big 12 is around $500M. The pot to be divided by the Big 10 schools is $2.6 billion. It's not even remotely close.

I did chat with a couple of people in the Mizzou AD and they mentioned that a Big 12 Network in some form is a strong possibility in the next TV deal. We'll see if that happens.

Swaggs · 02-01-2010, 08:54 AM

In doing some reading, the move to 12 makes sense for the Big 10 if they want to have a conference championship. If it brings in an extra $10-15M + some extra television sets, it will essentially pay for a new team. Adding 3 more teams doesn't do a whole lot for the Big 10 unless they swing for the fences and hit a home run (add Texas, Notre Dame, and someone else) or somehow get the BCS to begin permitting 3 teams per conference, as the Big 10 would already have a championship game w/ 12-teams and it already gets 2 BCS games almost every year.

I'm half wondering if this (the threat to move to 14, rather than 12) is the Big 10's final offer to Notre Dame -- essentially telling them that, if we take 2-3 Big East teams, that conference is going to split and you are going to be left looking for a new home for all sports and we won't have room for you at that point.

Samdari · 02-01-2010, 09:04 AM

Just don't see the value Pitt adds.

I see it athletically, both football and basketball. I see it academically. I see it geographically/culturally.

I just don't see it financially. They have to add a big metro area cable system for this to make sense, no? And doesn't Penn St. already have the Big 10 network on the cable systems in Pittsburgh, a small tv market to begin with?

Dr. Sak · 02-01-2010, 09:08 AM

It brings a natural rival and an eastern partner to Penn State. If you are looking at TV market alone, really only Syracuse or Rutgers could bring in a new market there.

What I keep asking Pitt fans is how do they feel moving from probably the best (or top 2) basketball conference to the Big Ten?

Samdari · 02-01-2010, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

It brings a natural rival and an eastern partner to Penn State. If you are looking at TV market alone, really only Syracuse or Rutgers could bring in a new market there.

Right, so you agree this does not make sense financially for the Big 10?

Dr. Sak · 02-01-2010, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Samdari

Right, so you agree this does not make sense financially for the Big 10?

Unless they head out west to get a team or somehow pull Texas/Notre Dame, I don't think any of the schools in the Big East make sense financially. But the Big Ten NEEDS that 12th team.

01-31-2010, 02:53 PM	#3
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	insiders __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

01-31-2010, 04:46 PM	#16
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	Why would the Big 10 want another poor traveling, mediocre football team? __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

01-31-2010, 06:29 PM	#22
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	I'm not too worried about the Big East losing its automatic bid if it only loses one team. With Miami gone, there really isn't one team carrying the league. I am more worried about the Big 10 or ACC deciding that 14 schools is the way to go. That would kill the Big East and probably really kill WVU, as Rutgers, UConn, Syracuse, and Pitt would almost certainly find a home in that scenario. I'm really hoping that the Big 10 just plucks away one Big 12 team and calls it a day. If the Big 10 grabs Missouri or Nebraska, it won't be a huge loss to the Big 12 (it will be a loss, but not a death blow, by any means) and they can just replace them and keep the 12-school status quo. If the Big 12 decides to go to 14 and only takes one Big East school, I think the ACC will do likewise. So, say the Big 10 goes to 14 and picks up Pitt, Mizzou, and Nebraska -- the ACC will probably go all out for Syracuse, UConn, and Rutgers or (I have heard, if they are willing to up the football program) Villanova. That would leave WVU, Louisville, Cincy, USF, and maybe Rutgers to pick up the pieces and that scenario doesn't sound too appealing. I think the elephant in the room is what Texas does. The Big 10 could potentially cause a domino effect that would largely destroy both the Big East and Big 12 if it goes to 14 and grabs, say, Texas, Nebraska, and Missouri and then the ACC takes 2 of Pitt, Cuse, UConn, or Rutgers. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

01-31-2010, 06:32 PM	#23
cartman Death Herald Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Le stelle la notte sono grandi e luminose nel cuore profondo del Texas	I think with all the animosity between Texas and Nebraska left over from the founding of the Big 12, I'd be surprised to see them both leave to the same conference. __________________ Thinkin' of a master plan 'Cuz ain't nuthin' but sweat inside my hand So I dig into my pocket, all my money is spent So I dig deeper but still comin' up with lint

01-31-2010, 06:33 PM	#24
bronconick College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI	Missouri would be potentially damaging to the Big XII's TV contracts. Kansas City and St. Louis are the two largest tv markets outside of Texas, I think. Last edited by bronconick : 01-31-2010 at 06:34 PM.

01-31-2010, 02:52 PM	#2
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	Dola, if this is true, it'd be effective in 2012 apparently.

01-31-2010, 02:57 PM	#4
DeToxRox Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Michigan	I still can't see this being true, Pitt doesn't fit much of the criteria that the Big 10 seems to be looking for. They won't be expanding into a new market or any of that. That said, it would make sense if they decided to move to 14 teams which is something people have said could be a real possibility. If this did happen though, the Big East would most assuredly be dead in the water.

01-31-2010, 03:06 PM	#5
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I think it would be an excellent choice. Academically, it's a good fit, and that's an important factor. It strengthens existing geographic areas. Travel costs for minor sports were a concern with the other two schools under consideration (Missouri, Rutgers). They were never going to pull off adding Texas or Notre Dame. I hope they can put it in place by the 2011 football season.

01-31-2010, 03:25 PM	#6
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Seems way too soon for that. Internet smoke, much?

01-31-2010, 03:41 PM	#8
Big Fo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2005	You guys think there's any chance the Big East's BCS slot might be taken away if they lost one of their stronger programs?

01-31-2010, 04:08 PM	#12
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I thnnik from a football POV East Carolina may be a nice fit for the Big East.

01-31-2010, 04:10 PM	#13
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Even though Temple isn't all that great, it'd alleviate the MAC's problem of 13 teams and would be the easiest move to make, especially since they've committed themselves to upgrade their facilities, play at an NFL stadium and so forth. I think, if a team did leave now -- and it seems unlikely Pitt would leave WVU -- the Big East football conference would probably split from the basketball league, but lease back the name, add 4 new teams to get to 12. Probably UCF, Temple another team from C-USA or the possibility that's been suggested here which might actually work -- poach the two new FCS programs coming online over the next few years from major southern markets. I'm talking Georgia State and UNC-Charlotte. No, neither of them would be particularly good out of the gate, but both of those schools would never find a better deal, it'd spread the reach of the league a bit and while it'd weaken it somewhat, it might help programs like Louisville rebound faster and keep Cincy and Rutgers ascending, too. I doubt a conference will lose a bid though, seems with the new process, they'll be assessing some nebulous criteria they won't release and adding a conference to shut folks up. It would give Penn State a travel partner and an in-state rival, but...I still think the Big 10 stated their intentions a while ago and now they're just throwing up a bunch of smoke before revealing what they were planning to do all along.

01-31-2010, 05:00 PM	#17
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	This is Sak's worst nightmare when Pitt beats Penn State. Even if it only happens twice a decade.

01-31-2010, 06:21 PM	#21
bronconick College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI	Pitt doesn't make any sense. They don't add a state where they can charge 1.10 for the BTN instead of .10, they don't add any kind of tv market. It gets them to twelve, but I doubt it adds more than the conference title game to the coffers, which makes it a net loss.

01-31-2010, 06:37 PM	#25
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Well, honestly, Texas probably brings enough to the table that they could probably, if not dictate, give a lot of input as to who else, if any, to bring. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

01-31-2010, 06:38 PM	#26
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	BTW, I haven't heard much about this in the past few days, but last week I had heard that Pitt, along with Rutgers and Missouri had "applied" to the Big 10. Not sure what exactly that entails, but it is not too surprising. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

01-31-2010, 06:46 PM	#27
yacovfb H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Aug 2002	I'm pretty doubtful of this as being anything more than an internet rumor. Pitt's rivals guy hasn't heard anything. I guess we'll know for sure by the end of the week. Still, I'm split on this move for Pitt - obviously it would be a good move us $$ wise and football wise (better bowl tie ins) but the bball would take a hit. Dixon wasn't too keen on the move when it first was talked about a month or two ago. Pitt's entire recruiting base for Bball is in BE territory (Pa, NJ, NYC, MD/DC/VA) so that would take a hit. Ideally, the B10 will either take ND or Mizzou and everything can stay status quo w/ the Big East. Still, if it has to be a BE team leaving, I'd hope it was Pitt because Syracuse would be a big loss. If it's Rutgers, then...meh...they can be replaced fairly easily. Last edited by yacovfb : 01-31-2010 at 06:47 PM.

01-31-2010, 09:22 PM	#30
tarcone Coordinator Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Pacific	Here are some links to some reports Pitt to Big Ten? \| Campus Corner Big Ten Sets Sights on Pittsburgh - Jody DiPerna - Fan Overboard - True/Slant http://bleacherreport.com/articles/3...d-the-panthers

01-31-2010, 09:53 PM	#31
Atocep Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Puyallup, WA	I can't see how Pitt would be a good choice for the Big 10 and I don't think the loss of them kills the Big East by any means. I don't think there's any one team that's holding the Big East together. It certainly hurts, but Pitt's fanbase isn't much better than some C-USA teams; which is why this is an odd choice for the Big 10. As was mentioned earlier, the worry would be a potential domino effect. If some of the other schools see it as time to bail on the conference then there could be trouble. For the Big East ECU or UCF probably makes the most sense followed by Memphis if they're serious about improving their facilities and marketing the football program, but Memphis isn't ready right now. I have a hard time seeing Temple coming back. Marshall is struggling to keep up with facilities/revenue in CUSA so they'd be a terrible pick for the Big East at this point. In the end, if this is the only team leaving then the Big East is fine. They aren't losing their BCS bid over this as no non-BCS conference is really close to the Big East from top to bottom.

01-31-2010, 10:52 PM	#33
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	That's true. After the Big Ten, which is obsessive about international research universities, the Pac Ten is the only conference that seems to care at all. So they would be careful about expansion. Based on academics, Colorado, Colorado State, Utah and New Mexico are in the top 500 in the world. BYU is in the top 600 (as is Oregon State). Purely from a football stadium size perspective (and size can usually be increased), there aren't too many BCS schools with stadiums smaller than 50,000. Those include... Big Ten (Northwestern 49), Big 12 (none), SEC (Vanderbilt 39), Pac Ten (Oregon State 45, Washington State 35), ACC (Boston College 44, Duke 33, Wake Forest 31), Big East (Louisville 42, Connecticut 40, Cincinnati 35). Of the possible Pac Ten schools, Colorado State plays in a stadium with 34,000 capacity, BYU 65, Utah 45, New Mexico 38. For the Big East, UAB (71), Temple plays in the Eagles' stadium (68), Memphis (62), Central Florida (45), East Carolina (43), Marshall (38), Southern Miss (36).

01-31-2010, 10:53 PM	#34
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	If the Pac 10 is looking to upgrade its bowl ties (which are pretty mediocre after the Rose Bowl, IMO), then BYU probably has the best travelling fan base and brings the most TV viewers of the non-BCS teams. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

01-31-2010, 10:55 PM	#35
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	Hmm. If it is Pittsburgh, what would be the split? East/West? North/South? An ACC-style "ignore geography" split? East/West probably would split up the Indiana schools in some way with one school going east with Michigan, MSU, PSU, Pitt, and OSU. North/South (if taken literally) would most likely split Northwestern from Illlinois to go north with Michigan, MSU, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Minnesota. Crossover games could be used to keep Indiana/Purdue (in an east/west split), Michigan/OSU, or Illinois/Northwestern (both in a possible north/south split) together, but after them, it's hard to pick meaningful permanent crossover games. If geography were put aside, an arrangement like the following could be done: Division A: Michigan, Ohio State, Pittsburgh, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana Division B: Michigan State, Illinois, Penn State, Wisconsin, Northwestern, Purdue The best crossover fits seem to be Michigan-MSU, OSU-Illinois, Pittsburgh-Penn State, Minnesota-Wisconsin, Indiana-Purdue, and Iowa-Northwestern. Depending on whether the Big 10 would like to keep Michigan-OSU as a possible rematch game after the regular season (and thus split them into separate divisions), this could be a good way to preserve as many rivalries and trophy games as possible. Lots of NFL stadiums in the Big 10 footprint to hold a champioship game in: Heinz Field, Paul Brown Stadium, Browns Stadium, Lucas Oil Stadium, Ford Field, Soldier Field, Lambeau Field, and the Metrodome. Of these, probably Soldier Field and Lucas Oil Stadium, being centrally located and easily accessible, would host the championship more often than other places more to the edge of the conference footprint (and I doubt the Packers would put Lambeau up for bid).

02-01-2010, 02:05 AM	#41
RainMaker Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Chicago, IL	With a 12th team, what site would get the Big 10 Championship game? My guess is Indy, although it would suck to have both the basketball and football there.

02-01-2010, 02:45 AM	#43
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	New Meadowlands Stadium when Rutgers joins, not Pitt.

02-01-2010, 08:23 AM	#44
miked College Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The Dirty	I still don't understand the appeal of PIT... __________________ Commish of the United Baseball League (OOTP 6.5)

02-01-2010, 08:54 AM	#46
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	In doing some reading, the move to 12 makes sense for the Big 10 if they want to have a conference championship. If it brings in an extra $10-15M + some extra television sets, it will essentially pay for a new team. Adding 3 more teams doesn't do a whole lot for the Big 10 unless they swing for the fences and hit a home run (add Texas, Notre Dame, and someone else) or somehow get the BCS to begin permitting 3 teams per conference, as the Big 10 would already have a championship game w/ 12-teams and it already gets 2 BCS games almost every year. I'm half wondering if this (the threat to move to 14, rather than 12) is the Big 10's final offer to Notre Dame -- essentially telling them that, if we take 2-3 Big East teams, that conference is going to split and you are going to be left looking for a new home for all sports and we won't have room for you at that point. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

02-01-2010, 09:04 AM	#47
Samdari Roster Filler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Cicero	Just don't see the value Pitt adds. I see it athletically, both football and basketball. I see it academically. I see it geographically/culturally. I just don't see it financially. They have to add a big metro area cable system for this to make sense, no? And doesn't Penn St. already have the Big 10 network on the cable systems in Pittsburgh, a small tv market to begin with? __________________ http://www.nateandellie.net Now featuring twice the babies for the same low price!

02-01-2010, 09:08 AM	#48
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	It brings a natural rival and an eastern partner to Penn State. If you are looking at TV market alone, really only Syracuse or Rutgers could bring in a new market there. What I keep asking Pitt fans is how do they feel moving from probably the best (or top 2) basketball conference to the Big Ten?

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