The People's Republic of Massachusetts strikes again...

[SirFozzie]

Unreal. UNFREAKING Real.

(from today's Boston Globe)


A Suffolk County jury acquitted Kyle Bryant yesterday of murdering his pregnant 14-year-old girlfriend, Chauntae Jones, and her unborn child, even though he told police in a tape-recorded statement that he was present when Jones was stabbed, bludgeoned, and buried in a shallow grave in Mattapan.

After deliberating for more than 12 hours over four days, the jury rejected the state's argument that Bryant, the presumed father of the 8-month-old fetus, was guilty of the 1999 murders under case law which says that participants in a joint criminal venture are equally culpable, even if only one did the killing.

In a city that had grown hardened to violent youth crime, the murder of Jones and her unborn child in the fall of 1999 was singularly shocking. An eighth-grader at St. Mary's Alternative School in Dorchester, Jones disappeared on the afternoon of Sept. 28, 1999. On Nov. 2, her body and that of her unborn baby were unearthed from a makeshift grave on the grounds of the former Boston State Hospital in Mattapan. She had been repeatedly stabbed and beaten and was buried alive, according to prosecutors.

A pillowcase recovered from the grave matched one in Bryant's house, police said, and a shovel found at the scene had also come from his home.

Prosecutors contended that Jones was killed because Bryant wanted to thwart a potential criminal investigation for statutory rape in connection with his relationship with Jones. His childhood friend, Lord Hampton, was the other alleged killer and is to be tried on the same charges later this year.


They were going for Murder One Charges. But the jury also had the option to go for 2nd degree if they wanted to.

But Not Guilty? Not Freakin Guilty?

There's 12 men and women who didn't do their job or their duty.

[KevinNU7]

I think he was not guilty of 1st degree but definetl 2nd degree.

[SirFozzie]

Agreed. If it was Murder One or Not Guilty, then there could be room for either way.. but to completely exonerate??

[MrBug708]

Lord Hampton?

I wonder how old Mr. Bryant was?

[SirFozzie]

17

[RendeR]

Mass is one of the single most pathetic places I've ever lived. It wouldn't be so bad if they had a clue how sad this place is, but they honestly believe what they have here is the most wonderful place on the planet.

HELLO...BEULLER? BEULLER???

wake up and smell the ignorance new England.

[SirFozzie]

It's not totally bad, but the last couple days have sucked.

[miked]

Why single out Mass? Not that I like it here all that, but there are cases like this everywhere. I'm still pissed about that dude in GA who was convicted of having consensual sex with a girl who was like 2 months under the minimum age and locked up for 10 years.

The story has been on HBO and lots of news channels. He was a black HS football player who was very good and smart, sought after by just about every school in the country and had sex with this white girl. A while later she came out and said she was raped. The jury basically tossed it out because they didn't believe a word she said, but they convicted him of statutory rape or something because she was barely under the minimum age. The prosecutor looked so smug when they were interviewing him that justice was done, but everyone down there knows that this poor kid was just fudged by the system.

Happens everywhere, but rules are rules. When you're on jury duty, you are given specific guidelines for each charge. They are mostly cut and dry and either they are proven beyond a reasonable doubt or not. I believe Ray Lewis was tried under the same GA version of that Mass law, where if you are present/accomplice at the scene of a murder and do not intervene, you are tried as if you performed the murder. Not 100% sure though, so don't flame...

[miked]

Dola-

hxxp://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/1/20/204212.shtml

There is a link to some recent news about that kid. They didn't get him on statutory rape, they got him on molestation charges because the jurors thought it would carry a light sentence.

[QuikSand]

I wonder if the jury had more than a nine sentence summary to go on.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by miked

I'm still pissed about that dude in GA who was convicted of having consensual sex with a girl who was like 2 months under the minimum age and locked up for 10 years.

Be pissed all you want, but the popular version of the story circulating the national media omits quite a bit of the details behind the story, particularly the number of other incidents he had been involved in.

I just can't believe, and am borderline pissed myself, at the amount of pity that's being wasted on this guy.

As you said yourself rules are rules and he got what he had coming AFAIC.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

...the popular version of the story circulating the national media omits quite a bit of the details behind the story...

Which little smilie has its eyes bugging out in disbelief? I guess that's the emotion I'd like to sarcastically display here...

[SirFozzie]

(it seems that eek with the : : around it does that)

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Lord Hampton?

I wonder how old Mr. Bryant was?

Shocking to see British royalty involved.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Be pissed all you want, but the popular version of the story circulating the national media omits quite a bit of the details behind the story, particularly the number of other incidents he had been involved in.

I just can't believe, and am borderline pissed myself, at the amount of pity that's being wasted on this guy.

As you said yourself rules are rules and he got what he had coming AFAIC.

I concur with JIMG. Someone in our school paper wrote something defending this kid. Regardless of whether the girl is 17 of 17 and 11 months and 29 days, its still statuatory rape. If the kid is so smary, he should have known better, he shouldn't have committed previous crimes. Using someone's intelligence as a defense of why they shouldn't be convicted is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. People should realize they ruin their own lives by making stupid decisions.

[Young Drachma]

I'm not sure the issue with Marcus Dixon is so much the fact that he did what he did, as much as he got 10 years for it. I mean, it does seem obvious that he's got issues though. Of course, they could have easily be saying he did other stuff before to make this case more credible and those reasons aren't why he got 10 years, just the one thing he did with the girl.

'course, she was super young and he should've known better. I think the interesting twist to this is not the fact that she was white and he was black, but that he was adopted by a white family and their outrage sent this thing to the media who have taken it pretty far. Or at least, that's my take.

I was annoyed when I saw him on CNN once I think and all he talked about was "getting back on the football field." He didn't seem all that articulate to me and with a GPA like that, you'd think he'd be able to. 'course that could've been a bad day. But then, how many college bound kids take Home Ec?

hmm...seems like he knew where the girls would be.

[Young Drachma]

Dola -

I think I did read he did pretty well on the SAT. That's laudable. (I'm amending my reference to his GPA and implying he took weak classes)

Still a shame he got caught up though. If nothing else, maybe this will teach him something. I doubt he'll spend all ten years in prison, something will break because of outrage or otherwise.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Mass is one of the single most pathetic places I've ever lived. It wouldn't be so bad if they had a clue how sad this place is, but they honestly believe what they have here is the most wonderful place on the planet.

HELLO...BEULLER? BEULLER???

wake up and smell the ignorance new England.

Seriously, I'm interested in what you are comparing Massachusetts/New England too and why you consider it pathetic compared to the other places?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Seriously, I'm interested in what you are comparing Massachusetts/New England too and why you consider it pathetic compared to the other places?

Nascar is much bigger in other places.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Seriously, I'm interested in what you are comparing Massachusetts/New England too and why you consider it pathetic compared to the other places?

Honestly, the people are dude, the cost of living is in flagrant violation of the ability to exist normally, the legislature is a group of right-viewed pansies unable to make a decision based on rights and not self indulgent BS.

I'd go on but thats enough to start on for anyone. I've lived in Florida, California, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, New York and Virginia for at least a year each, and kansas, Hawaii, Oregon, Ohio, and Oklahoma for less than a year at different times in my life. While each of those states has their individual issues, NONE of them spouted the self agrandizement that I hear daily in Mass, with the number of negative issues to go against it.

blah.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Nascar is much bigger in other places.

yeah yeah, that too.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Honestly, the people are dude,

Not sure what you're trying to say here, but if it's a variation of the Masshole thing, I agree to an extent, but I've lived here since I was 8, so I'm used to it.

the cost of living is in flagrant violation of the ability to exist normally,

And wages are also much higher across the board to make up for this.

the legislature is a group of right-viewed pansies unable to make a decision based on rights and not self indulgent BS.

If you're talking about gay marriage, I'm pretty sure Massachusetts is much farther along than most every other state. The legislature in general is what happens whenever there is no effective opposition party. I'm not sure why the legislature is a reason to hate the state and the people who live there.

I'd go on but thats enough to start on for anyone.

Not really. There are plenty of things I don't like about Massachusetts, but on balance, I think it's one of the best places in the country to live.

I've lived in Florida, California, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, New York and Virginia for at least a year each, and kansas, Hawaii, Oregon, Ohio, and Oklahoma for less than a year at different times in my life. While each of those states has their individual issues, NONE of them spouted the self agrandizement that I hear daily in Mass, with the number of negative issues to go against it.

Then go live in one of them. Self-Aggrandisement is an act undertaken to increase your own power and influence or to draw attention to your own importance. If you really feel that people here at like that, go out and meet some more. Most people I know aren't smug, self-righteous jackasses.

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Nascar is much bigger in other places.

If I cared about auto-racing, I'd be a CART fan. I've never understood the excitement in watching a bunch of cars drive around in a circle, but to each their own.

[Crapshoot]

Hey, NASCAR was built on the back of rednecks- proud tradition there..

[Mac Howard]

There isn't a single word about his defence in the summary you gave, Sirfozzie. If you restrict yourself to the prosecution's case only, then every prosecution ever brought is a shoe-in.

What was his defence?

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Mac Howard

What was his defence?

From the little I know of the case, it was (supposedly) the Lord Hampton who allegedly killed the girl.

After thinking about RendeR's comments a little more, I guess there is a new slogan for Massachusetts - Smarter than you and we know it.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Not sure what you're trying to say here, but if it's a variation of the Masshole thing, I agree to an extent, but I've lived here since I was 8, so I'm used to it.And wages are also much higher across the board to make up for this. If you're talking about gay marriage, I'm pretty sure Massachusetts is much farther along than most every other state. The legislature in general is what happens whenever there is no effective opposition party. I'm not sure why the legislature is a reason to hate the state and the people who live there.
Not really. There are plenty of things I don't like about Massachusetts, but on balance, I think it's one of the best places in the country to live.Then go live in one of them. Self-Aggrandisement is an act undertaken to increase your own power and influence or to draw attention to your own importance. If you really feel that people here at like that, go out and meet some more. Most people I know aren't smug, self-righteous jackasses.If I cared about auto-racing, I'd be a CART fan. I've never understood the excitement in watching a bunch of cars drive around in a circle, but to each their own.

Hrm, lets see, the people are Rude, my deepest apologies for the typo, and I've tried being as nice as possible to every new person I meet. In return I get flipped off, brushed aside and looked at like I'm a freak of nature. The people are ARE assholes for the most part, the few DECENT ones I've met are not from here to begin with.

The wages in this state in NO way make up for the cost of living. We're bringing down in excess of 70K a year, and we live paycheck to paycheck because of the unreal charges on almost everything.

And you've lived here for most of your life, its become the norm for you, and sadly, your own pompous little definition is just another example of the "better than thou" atitude that pervades this salt lick of a state.

The legislature is probably no better or worse than some other states, but from watching the idiotic handling of the gay marriage situation as well as the cow-towing to Romney like he's some sort of greek god on high really makes me freaking ill.

You live here, you like it here, thats fine, that in no way invalidates my opinion of this shithole of self importance.

and frankly, if you decided to be a racing fan and went to cart first, I'd sort of expect it, cart is little more than an elitist go kart club compared to a much more people friendly series such as NASCAR. So you're choice would snuggle you right into the heart of my opinion.

[SirFozzie]

Basically, they told the jury that the police interrogation was "too antagonistic" and the fact that a tape recorder blurred in and out at spots (balky tape recorder), and the defense lawyer said that he had a theory on why Hampton killed the girl, but he could not confirm it.

[SirFozzie]

Found the quote from the story:

In an impromptu press conference, defense lawyer John Salsberg said the jury heeded the judge's instructions, considered all the evidence carefully, and concluded that the state had failed to prove Bryant was a participant in the murders. "They didn't think he was a joint venturer," Salsberg said. Before jurors began deliberating, the judge instructed them that to find that the crime was a joint venture, the state had to establish that Bryant was present when Jones was murdered and either shared the intent of her killer or helped carry out the crime.

Salsberg contended that Hampton acted on his own in killing Jones for reasons that Salsberg said he couldn't prove. And he said the state's theory as to why Bryant wanted to kill Jones defied logic.

The lone witness called by the defense, Assistant District Attorney David Deakin, testified that the District Attorney's office had not begun to investigate a possible statutory rape charge when Jones was slain.

In the 25-minute recording, which was played to a rapt jury, Bryant said he knew a hole had been dug on the grounds of the former state hospital shortly before the murder to serve, in Keeler's words, as "her final resting place."

Sniffling on the tape, Bryant said he followed Hampton and Jones on foot in the dark to the site. He stood by, he said, as Hampton first tried to sexually assault Jones, then choked her, stabbed her with a 6-inch steak knife as she lay face-up on the ground, and beat her with a big rock.

Even though Jones screamed for him to help her, Bryant said on the tape, he stood "like a dummy" and did nothing. But he denied harming or burying her.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by RendeR

Hrm, lets see, the people are Rude, my deepest apologies for the typo, and I've tried being as nice as possible to every new person I meet. In return I get flipped off, brushed aside and looked at like I'm a freak of nature. The people are ARE assholes for the most part, the few DECENT ones I've met are not from here to begin with.

I don't know what part of the state you are from, so this might not apply to you. In general, I think Masschusetts people aren't really any less nice, they're just much, much less 'friendly', ie outgoing. Originally, I'm from Pennsylvania/Maryland, so maybe I'm not really one of the assholes anyway.

The wages in this state in NO way make up for the cost of living. We're bringing down in excess of 70K a year, and we live paycheck to paycheck because of the unreal charges on almost everything.

I'm only in college, and I've never had to worry about a family or anything, so I'll defer to you on this.

And you've lived here for most of your life, its become the norm for you, and sadly, your own pompous little definition is just another example of the "better than thou" atitude that pervades this salt lick of a state.

I was just joking with that definition. If you've ever read my posts in a political topic, you'd see my opinion is contrary to most people from Massachusetts.

The legislature is probably no better or worse than some other states, but from watching the idiotic handling of the gay marriage situation as well as the cow-towing to Romney like he's some sort of greek god on high really makes me freaking ill.

I think that any legislature across the nation would react in the same way (or just say screw gay marriage), it's just that the Supreme Court here decided to force our legislature to deal with it.

You live here, you like it here, thats fine, that in no way invalidates my opinion of this shithole of self importance.

I wouldn't say I like it here, just that I've accepted it and adjusted to it. Plus I'm naturally defensive whenever you attack any group I'm a part of.

and frankly, if you decided to be a racing fan and went to cart first, I'd sort of expect it, cart is little more than an elitist go kart club compared to a much more people friendly series such as NASCAR. So you're choice would snuggle you right into the heart of my opinion.

I don't judge it based on the fans or anything like that....I just think street racing provides more opportunities for passing, etc. than ovals do, and CART/IRL have more street courses than NASCAR.

[RendeR]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I don't judge it based on the fans or anything like that....I just think street racing provides more opportunities for passing, etc. than ovals do, and CART/IRL have more street courses than NASCAR.

My only thing to nit pick on is this, you are completely wrong on this point. street racing in fact limits the ability to pass. NASCAR holds 2 road course races a year, in those races the lead rarely if ever changes more then 5-8 times during the event and passing down the pack is limited to 1 or 2 "setup" corners on the track. While the oval events have passing throughout the field at almost all points and lead changes numbering from 15-50 times depending on the track they race on that weekend. As with any racing series you will have the odd chance of someone really dominating and cutting those numbers down.

CART and IRL cars are faster overall because of their design, more downforce (from the wings) = better handling and higher speeds, but in doing so they severely limit the number of places the driver can use that speed to overtake anyone, so it comes down to just a few (normally 1 or 2) spots on the street courses where the driver can have a real chance of passing. Other than those spots you have a nice pretty little choochoo train of (cough) cars, that rolls along for however many laps they run.

[ahbrady]

When I traveled to Boston, I expected the people to be complete jerks based on what I had heard about New Englanders, but I found quite the opposite to be the case. Everyone I ran into up there was helpful and courteous. I went to a Red Sox game. The guy sitting next to me noticed my accent and asked where I was from, and if I had come all the way just to go to Fenway. I told him I was from Arkansas, and that was pretty much the only reason for the trip. He asked if I was going to the game the next day, and I told him I was considering buying tickets at the game the next day. He told me he had some tickets and would give them to me. I offered to pay him numerous times, but he insisted that it be a gift. He also drove all the way out to my hotel which was on the opposite side of Boston from his house. Pretty nice.

[lynchjm24]

Originally Posted by RendeR

The wages in this state in NO way make up for the cost of living. We're bringing down in excess of 70K a year, and we live paycheck to paycheck because of the unreal charges on almost everything.

Let me guess, you aren't an economist?

As far as the wages go, my girlfriend is 23 and hasn't graduated from college yet and makes 37k even though she only works 35 hours a week. I'd suggest a headhunter......

[Reno]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Be pissed all you want, but the popular version of the story circulating the national media omits quite a bit of the details behind the story, particularly the number of other incidents he had been involved in.

I just can't believe, and am borderline pissed myself, at the amount of pity that's being wasted on this guy.

As you said yourself rules are rules and he got what he had coming AFAIC.

I'd be ok with the ruling if they had just left it as statutory rape because then the rules are the rules and he would be guilty no matter how ridiculous the law is. However, they also tacked on an unprecedented aggravated child molestation charge because she was a virgin and was "hurt" during the consensual sex. This carries a minimum sentence of 15 years. Jury members were crying on camera during the HBO special about how they were basically forced by the prosecution to ruin this kid's life.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Reno

Jury members were crying on camera during the HBO special about how they were basically forced by the prosecution to ruin this kid's life.

Then they are idiots. If you think a law is a bad law, don't EVER convict somebody for breaking it. Take a stand. Don't go on a documentary crying about it. The time to do something about it has already passed.

[Reno]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Then they are idiots. If you think a law is a bad law, don't EVER convict somebody for breaking it. Take a stand. Don't go on a documentary crying about it. The time to do something about it has already passed.

Actually if I remember right they were crying because they were unaware of the 15 year minimum sentence the charge carries and convicted him under the impression he would go to jail for a year, if at all.

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Reno

Actually if I remember right they were crying because they were unaware of the 15 year minimum sentence the charge carries and convicted him under the impression he would go to jail for a year, if at all.

Was the jury not allowed to be told what the minimum sentence was for the charge? Perhaps they just neglected to ask, which I would consider to be poor work on their behalf. I would want to know the likely consequences of my actions if I were a juror, so that I would not be surprised by the outcome. If ever I do finally get on a jury, I'm not going to be played by either side. I've only been summoned once, and nobody wanted me on their jury.

[Reno]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Was the jury not allowed to be told what the minimum sentence was for the charge? Perhaps they just neglected to ask, which I would consider to be poor work on their behalf. I would want to know the likely consequences of my actions if I were a juror, so that I would not be surprised by the outcome. If ever I do finally get on a jury, I'm not going to be played by either side. I've only been summoned once, and nobody wanted me on their jury.

Here area a few things I just found:

"This is the first time in Georgia's history that a high school teen was prosecuted for a felony for having consensual sex with a classmate."

"Dixon had committed a crime that in all previous cases had never resulted in any jail time"

From the Real Sports Special:
On the felony charge: “I think a majority of the jurors did not believe that he should have been charged with this [aggravated child molestation]. But it was so hard to make a decision because of the way the law reads. Because I knew in my heart he wasn’t guilty.”
On hearing the sentence: "I think every juror on that jury gasped. And it took everything I had not to just cry. Because he didn’t deserve that. He doesn’t deserve it."

From an ABC New Special:
Reporter: Nine other jurors contacted by Nightline refused to comment. Atlanta Journal-Constitution reporter Norman Arey said he talked to four jurors right after the sentencing and “all four said they had no idea, that they thought the kid would go home at the end of the day.”
On the rape charge: “We looked at the facts of the case and we didn’t see anything there that, to us was rape. The only thing we seen was two teen-agers have sex.”

[Tekneek]

I think those people need to be introduced to the idea of jury nullification.

(An edit to properly reflect my thoughts on the matter)...

[Reno]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Clearly those people need to be introduced to the idea of jury nullification.

Maybe, but you can't deny Georgia's justice system messed up. They sentenced a 18 year old boy to 10 years without parole for having nothing more than consensual sex with a fellow student. To make matters worse he also has a 4.0 GPA, scored 1200 on his SATs, and is a 6'6" DE who should be playing for Vanderbilt right now, a school he selected over more presitigous schools because of its academic reptuation.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I wonder if the jury had more than a nine sentence summary to go on.

B-I-N-G-O

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by Reno

Maybe, but you can't deny Georgia's justice system messed up.

I totally agree. I just place some of the blame on an uninformed jury who let themselves get played like a fiddle by a government that wants to look "tough on crime" while actually doing nothing about real crime.

[Reno]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

I totally agree. I just place some of the blame on an uninformed jury who let themselves get played like a fiddle by a government that wants to look "tough on crime" while actually doing nothing about real crime.

I think the charges had a lot to do with race, had it not been a black guy and white girl I don't think the molestation charge would have even been considered. I think it was tacked on because they knew they couldn't win the rape charge and wanted jail time. And from the HBO interview the prosecutor is one of the people I think most deserves to rot in hell. The guy showed no remorse and actually seemed quite happy that he was able to send the kid to jail for 10 years. He was so smug I almost smashed my TV.