Just picked up Galactic Civilizations

Bonegavel · 03-26-2003, 09:43 AM

This is the same genre as Masters of Orion 3. I will post here as I play the game and give my impressions for anyone interested in 4x Space sims.

In the last month, I have purchased Starships Unlimited, MOO3, and now Galactic Civ. StarUnlim is very limited and didn't hold my attention very long. MOO3 removes the player too far from gameplay as to feel like one is spectating instead of playing. As for GalCiv, I have only played a few dozen turns, but already I have a far greater understanding of play than a week with MOO3.

I will be paying close attention to the highly touted threaded A.I., and see if it lives up to its expectations.

Personally, I am looking for a chess-like game that has easy, well-defined rules that can be, like chess, replayed many times with many different outcomes. Everything I have read on GalCiv is that it provides exactly this.

Calis · 03-26-2003, 09:44 AM

Very interested to hear what you think of this game. I'm not a spacey-game fan, but I think this one sounded pretty interesting. Eagerly awaiting impressions.

Bee · 03-26-2003, 09:46 AM

I'd be interested in your opinions on the United Planets and the domestic politics and how they are implemented in the game. The political part of the game is what I find most intriguing, while only a small part of the game I'm curious to see how it will fit into the overall game.

sachmo71 · 03-26-2003, 09:53 AM

Bonegavel,

What are the minimum hardware requirements?

daedalus · 03-26-2003, 03:02 PM

Me want impression/review. Please.

GoldenEagle · 03-26-2003, 03:24 PM

Im very interested as well.

WSUCougar · 03-26-2003, 04:03 PM

Count me in as an interested party. With the disappointment surrounding MOO3, we 4x fans need some good news.

Laddin · 03-26-2003, 04:08 PM

Count me in as the interested type.

Disappointing news about MOO3, I was such a big fan of MOO1 & MOO2.

Bonegavel · 03-26-2003, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sachmo71
Bonegavel,

What are the minimum hardware requirements?

Box says:

Pentium III running at 600 MHz as a minimum and 500 MB disk space for all multimedia features to be installed.

I'm running it on a P4 2.533 GHz machine and it screams along nicely. :-)

I will be playing it extensively this week and will post as much as I can as often as I can.

sachmo71 · 03-26-2003, 05:21 PM

Oh well...

Bonegavel · 03-26-2003, 05:31 PM

UPDATE

Wow. Unlike MOO3, you are an active participant and make the choices. The tech tree is reminiscent of Civ. There are different areas to delve into and you can easily see what the different paths will give your civ. I can easily see many games spent just trying different combos of tech research.

I don't read manuals (maybe this is why MOO3 is killing me) and i already feel comfortable with things. I easily figured out how build colony ships and colonize other planets (something I was unable to do in MOO3).

There are some Ultima-like morality choices to make from time to time. You can either be Good, Neutral, or Evil in your choices. Each choice has a consequence.

I didn't mean to post so little, but I want to leak this out as it hits me.

enjoy

Havok · 03-26-2003, 05:43 PM

There is a good review of Galatic Civialzations at gamespot. I've always been a fan of Space sims. I have MOO 1 and 2 and Space Empires 3 and 4. But after i read the bad reviews of MOO 3 i was pretty disappointed.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-26-2003, 09:15 PM

Just heard about this one a couple of days ago...

All the reports of outstanding AI, good game design, emphasis on the single-player game, and fun decisions were too good to pass up on this game: I just picked it up this afternoon. I'm taking a short gaming break this weekend, and will try to post some impressions. If things go really well, I might do a short mini-dynasty with a small galaxy.

There's an extensive triple review here. It doesn't delve too much into the AI, but from all reports it is outstanding, and plays with a very human feel to it. Each of the 6 alien races has their own, individually coded AI. Here are some gameplay examples written by the designer. The "Developer Humbled" one sold me on the game. I'm also excited by the fact that the tiny galaxy games can be played in an hour or so, and small apparently take only a few hours. Life's busy, and it would be nice to play an entire turn-based game as a quick break.

Sachmo,
Depending on your system, you might still be ok with this one if you're close to the system specs. In that above review, one of the reviewers says he's running it on a P3 850mhz with no slowdowns at all. I think I've heard a couple of other people say they have no problems running the game on lesser setups. I'll be running it on a P3 800mhz and will post if I have performance troubles. The company really seems to have their act together and the system requirements may be more for the "huge" galaxy setups, which result in massive games that would probably choke the life out of lowly computers. Knowing how much you like SEIV, I think you would love this game (if it's anywhere close to it's hype), even if you are restricted to playing on the bottom three or four galaxy sizes.

sachmo71 · 03-26-2003, 10:15 PM

Thanks, GB, but I am running a PII 300 (yes, that's a 2!) so I doubt it would even boot up. I'll just live through you guys until I get a new computer...in a few years...

Godzilla Blitz · 03-26-2003, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sachmo71
Thanks, GB, but I am running a PII 300 (yes, that's a 2!) so I doubt it would even boot up. I'll just live through you guys until I get a new computer...in a few years...

Yeah, it does sound like that system might be a stretch.

Diapers are expensive, aren't they? You know, if you use cloth diapers (on your kid, that is) for a year you'll save enough for a new computer. Not that you'd have any time to use it, seeing as you'll be busy doing two loads of poopy laundry every day, but it's a thought, I guess.

Firing up the game now...

sachmo71 · 03-27-2003, 08:49 AM

Yes, babies are expensive, and since number 2 is due in August, it's only going to get worse!

The other issue is that my computer is still running just fine, and I don't really have a need to upgrade right now. Eventually I will, but for now I'm ok. The good news is that a Fry's is opening right by my house, so when I am ready to upgrade, I'll be able to do it relatively cheap!

Godzilla Blitz · 03-27-2003, 09:34 AM

Initial Reactions...

So far I give it a +4, meaning that I went to bed 4 hours later than I wanted to (4AM instead of midnight). Given that I knew I needed to get up at 6:30AM, that's a pretty good start for the game. Definitely has the "just one more turn" force in it. The analogy of Civilization in space is right on the mark. I haven't played nearly enough to make a final judgement, but so far so good.

Random thoughts...

Just to try to figure out how to do stuff, I'm fumbling through a small galaxy game with all 5 opponents set at beginner (one above the lowest level of idiot). There are also a couple of minor nations involved, so altogether there are 8 civilizations in this particular game. The beginner AI isn't putting up much of a show so far, but that perhaps is to be expected given that it's only one click above idiot, and there are six or more AI levels, if I remember correctly. After about 20 years of game play I am far in front of the pack in all measures of achievement: population, colonies, economy, culture, military, research. They were slow out of the gate, and by the time they got going, I had colonies on the best empty planets in the galaxy. The key in the development stages however, was getting a colony on a huge fertile planet that is far and away the best planet in the galaxy. If this planet had been close to one of my opponents, I'm not sure if I would have as big of a lead.

Now that all the good stuff is claimed, it's time to start either eliminating civilizations for a conquest victory, strengthening culture for a cultural victory, or making alliances for an aliance victory. It's also possible to get a "research victory", but the game status screen says that I'm 65% of the way to a cultural victory, 55% of the way towards a conquest victory (I own a lot of the galaxy), and only 2% of the way towards a research victory, so that does not seem to be the way to go right now. I went to bed at the point of trying to decide whether to attack some of the evil civilizations or go on a massive, peaceful, culture spreading spree. I was hoping to try the alliance route, as I've got some friends out there, but I can't figure out how to offer alliances yet.

Fun stuff, in no particular order...

Trading between nations is very well done, and you can trade all kinds of stuff, in all kinds of creative ways. Because I don't know the value of things, it's hard to tell how good the AI is at this, but I get a sense that it knows what it's doing. One neat thing is that your diplomatic and military strengths (two different concepts) affect the deals you get.

The scope, scale, and flow of the game work very well. There are lots of fun choices to make, and so far, little micromanagement. Managing planets is getting a bit tedious now that I have a dozen or so of them, but I have yet to mess with the Govenors, which look like an excellent way to solve the micromanagement issue.

There's lots of stuff to find and explore. The research tree seems deep, rich, and well thought out. Everything seems to fit together. This is a game that doesn't overreach, and tries to do the things it does well, rather than trying to do everything.

Other stuff...

Still haven't fought any battles yet. My opponents left me alone during the beginning of the game, and now they're scared of me. However, combat (from what the manual says) and ship design are simplified compared to MOO2 or SEIV. The "think Civ, not MOO2" concept is the best way to imagine this.

The graphics are adequate. There are some neat cut-seen movies that add to the feel of the game, but otherwise not much eye candy. I don't need much to keep my happy graphic-wise, so your mileage may vary here.

I played the game blind, without looking at the manual for more than a minute, and for the most part could figure out how to do things with the help of some random clicking. However, I'm not sure yet how to do quite a few basic things (e.g. I have the technology to "make alliances", but I see no way to offer an alliance to a friendly civ in the diplomacy/trading screen). Unfortunately, the tutorial in the game isn't much help (it's not really there, from what I can tell), and reading the manual didn't clear up any of the questions I had. Other people have mentioned it, but the game and manual really need to give you more information on the technology tree. Although some of the choices are intuitive, you really don't know what are particular choice will do for you. Fortunately there seems to be extensive help on the internet.

Anyway, I should be back to the game sometime later, and will post more. I'm curious to see how the AI plays at more legitimate levels, as this will be the key factor as to whether the game gets a thumbs up or down. First I want to finish my current game, as I have seen a couple of interesting moves by the computer in the last couple of years, and I want to see what happens.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-27-2003, 09:41 AM

Dola...

Sachmo,

Me too on the second baby. Number two is due in October!

I read the manual last night, and you might want to check over at the website (www.galciv.com), about wheter the game will run on your system. The manual says this...

Q: I would like to run the game on an older computer. Is there anything I can do to do this?
A: Yes, most of the hardware requirements...revolve around the multimedia. You can delete the .BLK files and this will remove the videos. Some parts of the game may look static or strange, but it will allow you to play on an older system. Check (our) website for other tips.

I hear this company will go out of their way to help a customer, so firing off an email to them might be worth a shot if you're interested in the game.

AgPete · 03-27-2003, 09:53 AM

Like others said, I'm interested in this game too, especially after the failure of MOO3. Gamespot gave it a pretty good review. (8.4) I might try it. Graphics and sound are the only categories that brought the overall score down and those are two areas I really don't care about. Sports sims get the same treatment in their reviews.

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/galacticcivilizations/review.html

sachmo71 · 03-27-2003, 09:57 AM

Congrat, Zilla!! Fatherhood is the best job in the world, IMO.

I think I will send them an email and see. That would be cool if I could play it. Very, very cool. Keep the reviews coming, guys!

Eilim · 03-27-2003, 10:15 AM

Sachmo, just noticed this on their discussion forums :

Quote:

Works fine on my Pentium 2 400MHz system. Would not run larger galaxies on this though as it would be very slow.

Paul.

So maybe theres hope.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-28-2003, 12:38 AM

My opinion of this game is rising fast.

I finished that first game, playing against the standard opponents set at beginner in a small galaxy, and ended up winning via cultural victory. I allied with the Slug things (the Yor maybe?) and rolled over the Evil Apes (Drengin?) and Beserkers (Evil Robots, forgot the name). Not much of a fight on beginner. At this point the jury was still out.

Started a new game, same basic set up except that I set all the AI opponents to "normal", and gave myself what I think were some lesser abilities.

Wow! What a difference! The AI has come to life. It agressively builds and expands, and seems to come out of the gate with a solid starting strategy. I grabbed what I could nearby, and managed to grab a small edge in colonies mostly by accepting weak 13- and 14-rated planets into the fold. But the galaxy real estate has gone fast. Now I'm racing the other AI's for those resource points, but I'm losing more than my fair share here. There have been two or three times when I arrived one month (one turn) too late. Bastards.

Basically, this one is anyone's game. There's an empty gap with no planets right down the middle of the galaxy. The two evil empires have the entire west side of the galaxy to themselves, and the Evil Apes (Drengin) have built themselves a formidible position. The other two good civilizations, the neutral civilization, and I are crammed into the east side of the galaxy.

My plan is to set the foundation for an east-side alliance to combat the Evil Apes, who I think would crush any one of us separately. To that end, I'm trading techs with the good civilizations and starting to set up trade routes to foster further interdependence. I've got relations up to "friendly" so far with the other two good civs. I'm hoping to have at least a three-civilization armada ready to wipe the Evil Apes out if they come across that no-man's land in force. Got to hurry though, as there's not much unclaimed stuff left in the galaxy, and I've got to believe that we're heading for a military buildup in the galaxy in the near future.

I've got a better handle on the interface now, and that is making things a lot easier to manage. The Govenors make the planets pretty easy to manage, so far. As I've learned the interface, I've realized that it's pretty easy to get the game to do the things you want it to do. There are some annoying design decisions (launching ships, no rally points for ships, etc.), but nothing too annoying yet.

I really like the diplomatic model and the fact that there are four viable ways to win the game (research, cultural, alliance, and conquest). It gives you a lot of options for creative play.

Still not 100% decided on this game, but it has been a blast in this second game so far. It is definitely a game that makes you think hard about the decisions you make, and gives you lots of fun decisions to make. The tech tree is incredible.

Draft Dodger · 03-28-2003, 01:01 AM

kind of a tangent, but there's an interesting set of articles by Brad Wardell (Gal Civ designer) at Avault about making money via the internet.

it's a 4 part series (about 6-9 months old) - really good reading

WSUCougar · 03-28-2003, 06:23 AM

Thanks a bunch for the in-depth commentary, 'Zilla. I have already added this one to my must-have list, in part because of what you've said in this thread.

Bee · 03-28-2003, 06:40 AM

I followed the beta quite closely and the game looked like it was going to be a good one. The problem is right now there are too many good games and not enough time.

I just received Europa 1400, Freelancer and CM4 is on the way. I need to quit work so I have more time to play games.

A-Husker-4-Life · 03-28-2003, 09:26 AM

I downloaded it yesterday and installed it last night... Wow what a relief, is game is cool... THanks infogram for putting out a fun game, MOO3 is very complex, Civ3 is kinda boring, is game has it all...

In my first game, my Civ was totally wiped out in less than 30 turns, but I'll tell you it was very fun... In my next game, I think i'm going to turn down the opponents difficulty down to sub-normal, I had them all at normal....

Bee · 03-28-2003, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by A-Husker-4-Life
MOO3 is very complex, Civ3 is kinda boring, this game has it all...

Does this read to anyone else like GalCiv is both very complex and kinda boring?

Sorry, maybe it's just me but this made me actually LOL for some reason.

daedalus · 03-28-2003, 12:23 PM

Yes. Yes, it does. Heh.

daedalus · 03-28-2003, 05:54 PM

By the way, it was mentioned in the impression thread on GoneGold that you can find some good information at the JavaScout's website

Godzilla Blitz · 03-28-2003, 08:29 PM

So far so good. Just finished the second game. Got an alliance victory that went "roughly" according to plan.

There is some cool stuff in this game. I was fighting a see-saw battle with the Evil Apes in the Evil Robot's home sector as part of a three-civilization alliance against the Apes, when all of a sudden one of my allies, the Utopians, declare war on the Robots. I have to jump in, but now I'm in deep shit, as all the Evil Robot ships come pouring out of their systems after my ships. I retreat out of the sector at full speed with my precious but badly outgunned warships, but this leaves a slew of lumbering battleaxe ships bearing down on an advanced spacestation that I had set up in the sector, and I've got three expensive, full, and god-awful slow transports full of troops surrounded there as well. Things looked grim--I'm about two turns from losing the spacestation and all the transports--until I manage to sneak in a construction ship into the spacestation that allows me to build some kind of a wave-jamming module that slows down enemy ships in the sector by one move per turn, effectively freezing all the slow enemy ships where they are. They were scattered all over the sector as they closed in on my spacestation and transports, so now I turn my fleet around, go back in, and rip them apart one-by-one. Within a year the whole sector--the heart of the Evil Robot empire--was cleared of enemy presence. Warm up the fat lady! Game over! What a rush seeing a crushing disaster get turned into a decisive victory with just one small ship adding one small feature to a spacestation at literally the last second. Cool stuff, indeed. Well worth the price of admission.

The AI was respectable on the normal level. It did do some questionable things, mostly along the lines of not pushing advantages and not using ships effectively, but that may just be part of the "normal" level. I'll try moving up a notch in the next game.

One of the things that I did like was the fact that the game throws things at you to keep you on your toes even in the endgame, when normally these games are just a matter of time if you've got a big lead. First, I got a message that the Yoda Slugs (the Yor) developed some ancient technology that would allow them to grow infinitely stronger very quickly, and that I should eliminate them before it would be too late. They only had one system left at the time, and they had been a willing minor ally, so I left them alone on principle. The game didn't go on that much further, but I wonder what would have happened if it had. Also, a massive space shark popped in to the galaxy and wraught some havoc. Lastly, the Yoda Slugs found a huge space craft from an ancient civilization on one of their planets. Had they been an enemy, it would have been tough to take out. Even though I was reasonably certain I would win after that major battle ripped the guts of the enemy and gave me a decisive advantage in planets, tech, etc., I never felt 100% comfortable with the lead until it was all over. Good stuff.

I also like the scale and scope of the game a lot. So many games today try to do everything, and end up falling far short. This game tries to stay within its limits and provide a solid single-player challenge. I'm still on the fence, as the AI at the normal level looks very beatable, but I'm guessing that it will be a tough fight at the next levels up. If it is, this game will get a solid thumbs up.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-29-2003, 05:02 PM

Dola...

Aarrgh! Stayed up all night last night playing this damn game. +8 on the bedtime rating scale...

Played a small galaxy with AI opponents set to "bright"...

Not sure the AI accolades are all that warranted, at least at this level. It wasn't too much of a challenge to beat the game, once you get past the opening. The AI opponents still seem to do some questionable things at the bright level, and the path to victory was straightforward.

Having said that, the AI has played an outstanding opening game the last two games, and I'd think it would be very hard to win if you fall behind at that stage. I'm also going to guess and say that the people that are reporting losing against the lower levels of AI are falling behind in these first couple of years, when the computer expands agressively and effectively.

However, I'm encouraged by the fact that this was still only level 5 of 8 with regards to AI toughness. "Intelligent", "Genius", and "Incredible" are still waiting. At the "bright" level, the AI is definitely more devious than at "normal" level (one of the civs fought a solid losing war against superior forces at the end of the game), but there seem to be basic strategies that would work consistently to beat them. I'm hoping at higher levels the AI uses diplomatic trading more agressively, coordinates attacks better (it tends to attack by sending clusters of unguarded transports at you), attacks more decisively (a couple of strong civilizations had weaker civilizations on their knees and yet they took forever--if they even tried--to invade systems), and has better geopolitical awareness.

If I had to say thumbs up or down given what I know now, I'd say thumbs up, but I need to try the next levels up to give a final verdict. The game really is a lot of fun; I've gotten my money's worth all ready. Even if this were the best the AI could play (and I don't think it is), there are a number of tweaks you could make in the game settings to make the game much more challenging. However, I'm hoping that the AI plays better at the higher difficulty levels. Unfortunately, I won't have time to check it out soon, though. After three days of playing, I need to get back to real life (and catch up on sleep).

Barkeep49 · 03-29-2003, 06:10 PM

Thanks for your updates Godzilla. They're great.

Eilim · 03-29-2003, 08:30 PM

Curious about something GB, have you played around with the recent "un-official" update in the Gal-Civ forums? Other than some minor fixes and gameplay tweaks, the AI was supposed to have gotten a good boost. I've yet to try it out as I'm still getting my ass handed to me on "normal" while in the feeling out stage of the game.

03-29-2003, 10:54 PM

Ok, now I am getting really confused on what game to get next.

Space Empires IV
SuperPower (only $20)
Galactic Civ (downloadable)

After reading this thread it appears that Gal Civ is quickly moving up the list to number 1. It may be very difficult to stop myself from getting this game in the morning.

It is obvious that Gal Civ is better than MOO3 but how does it compare to SEIV?

03-29-2003, 11:11 PM

BTW, is there a demo available. I was unable to find one but read something about it? Thanks.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-29-2003, 11:56 PM

In case people are interested, I posted this on a different board, but thought some people might be interested here...

These are some random strategies for success that worked well in my first two “real” games (at normal and bright AI levels with a small galaxy). Not sure if these strategies will work equally well against higher levels of AI or in different galaxy sizes, or even if they really are good strategy (I’ve only played three games, and still don’t have a good sense for what’s going on).

(MIGHT BE CONSIDERED SPOILERS…)
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1. Successful, aggressive expansion seems to be the key to survival. The AI’s at normal and above expand lightning fast. It is imperative to get more planets than anyone else. What you do in the first twenty turns can go a long way to insuring victory. To open fast you’ve got to get as much money as possible devoted to building colony ships. There are some tricks you can use to do this. First, crank up your taxes at the start of the game to the point where your approval rating is at or less than 60%. Your initial rate will give you too little money. Second crank up your spending to 100%, even if it means burning heavily into the 1000bc buffer the game gives you at the start. Third, crank up the percentage of these funds devoted to building ships. I don’t remember the exact figure, but I think in the last game I set my ships, social, and research numbers at somewhere around 80-0-20 for the first few turns. This will give you rapidly accelerated colony ship production. The key is that you only need to do this until you’ve cranked out enough colony ships and constructors to support your expansion. Fourth, get all planets making colony ships and buy these ships when it makes sense to do so, but use the lowest initial payment so that you spread your debt out over the longest amount of time. Do this sparingly, though: I would think a 50bc debt load each turn could kill you in the middle game. In the last game, I accelerated construction on one colony ship and one constructor to insure that I got a contested resource point and a distant colony. That left me with a 14bc stream of debt for effectively the rest of the game, but there are things you can quickly do to offset this, and 14bc late in the game is chump change if things have gone well elsewhere.

2. Once you realize you don’t need any more colony ships or constructors, switch to a research heavy spending rate. I went to 30-15-65, or something like that, and even switched down to 0-45-55 once I had a some planets loaded with “constructor build bars that were almost full” (these can be converted to warships with no loss, so you can stop production fully and yet be ready on a moments notice to fight a large war if you need to). The key is to get a couple of techs that your opponents don’t have. Once you do that, go trade them, preferably to the good civilizations (who should now have less planets than you do and can’t keep up research-wise). Aggressively trade for other techs, and keep track of the value of techs so that you aren’t getting screwed. Also, use your brain here and don’t give good military stuff to the Drengil, who will use it against you later. At least at the bright level and lower, the AI isn’t aggressively trading tech, and this will give you a large tech lead over the other nations if you do it right. The key here, though, is to be sure to tweak the trades by asking for cash, and spread it out over 50 turns. An AI will pay a lot more money if it is allowed to spread the payments out over a longer period of time. Also, sell techs that for similar income streams. In the last game, I quickly had that negative 14bc stream from expansion covered with a positive 24bc income stream for 50 turns from other countries’ payments to balance tech trades.

3. As the game moves on, adjust tax rates to keep happiness about 60% (set happiness higher if you need to spur population growth, I think), and adjust spending to keep your total about 100-200bc in the black. It’s important to keep your eye on this, as you easily can be burning a 75bc debt per turn later in the game if you aren’t careful.

4. In the expansion, prioritize on identifying systems for your colony ships. Don’t chase after out of the way anomalies early in the game. You can build another survey ship towards the end of the expansion period to try to get some of these. The exception is the floating metal, but even then I would still probably prioritize on system exploration. However, the metal spots have the potential of adding a weapon rating to your survey ship. If you get attack power with your survey ship early in the game, you now have the capability of dramatically weakening the expansion of a neighbor that is competing for systems. If you can take out one enemy’s colony ships and get a couple of systems because you found one of these things (and you think he didn’t): DO IT! A two or three planet lead in this early stage will make your life so much easier later, and winning this war can pay huge economic dividends a few years down the road.

5. During the expansion period, concentrate on getting into as many sectors as possible so that you can keep expanding. If there are two good planets around the same solar system, save that second planet for later, as once you own a system, no one else can grab a planet on the same system (“system”, not “sector”). Grab 14-rated planets (maybe 13-rated if that's the only option) if it is a good way get a foothold in a sector to allow further expansion. At the bright and lower levels, the AI isn’t doing this, and it weakens its opening. Get these planets building soil improvement right away, and then add habitat improvement once you get the tech for that (usually you can trade for this one early on). Be careful though. Too many of these planets will put you in the hole economically, as each one seems to carry a 7-10bc debt with it until it gets to level 15, which appears to be some kind of a break even point. Get only ones that will allow you to get to the next galaxy and continue expanding. Come back and grab more if you have leftover colony ships and can afford the debt.

6. If you are winning a war against an opponent, they will come to you for a peace deal. Never take it straight up unless you are absolutely desperate to stop the war. At some point (it might be the first time, might be later), they will let you can add cash (and maybe tech) to the deal and they will still take it. At this point, it is very likely that they will accept a peace deal that includes massive payments over 50 months. In the last game, I found a weapon upgrade for my survey ship during the expansion, weakened one opponent’s expansion with it, and then got a peace deal from them a couple of years later that paid about 90bc/year for 50 years during the middle five to ten game years.

7. Get the trade tech, make freighters, and set up distant trade routes with good neighbors.

The goal of all this is to survive the lightning expansion with more planets than anyone, have a positive income stream from payments from opponents, and have the tech lead within a few years of the expansion period’s end. Once you get this slight edge in planets, tech, and income, you can add more resources into more research, which will give you a larger tech advantage that you can use to build a solid economic lead. With that, it should be easier to deal with all the stuff the game throws at you.

Hope that helps. Again, take all this with a grain of salt, especially the exact numbers, as I’m doing it from memory, and have a lot still to learn about the game and how it works.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-30-2003, 12:09 AM

Cougar: I think you'll like it!

Sachmo: Thanks, and congrats to you too!

Barkeep: Thanks. Glad you like 'em.

Elim: No, I haven't downloaded the update, but I may try "just one more game" before I go back to writing my thesis. Time to try the "intelligent" level, which is the AI at full-tilt without any advantages. I've learned that apparently the "bright" level isn't full strength. I'm not sure the upgrade addresses the "tech whoring" strategy though, but maybe the highest level of AI does. I found a couple of posts on the GalCiv boards from other people who claim to be winning easily at the upper levels (bright and intelligent) by using this strategy. I think they are telling the truth, as selling and trading tech gave me a huge advantage in my last game. The key is getting through the beginning in good shape. That's where most people seemed to be getting creamed.

If it turns out that you can always win by trading and selling tech, I might just make up a house rule limiting the amount of tech I can trade. I would think that would make the game instantly more difficult. But I'm hoping the game can be played straight up and consistenly be a good challenge.

Also, for those playing...

I haven't used it (and probably won't), but pressing "Control-N" at the start of the game will give you a new random galaxy. Could be useful if you don't like your initial spot in the galaxy.

Downloading update now...

Damn it. I'm hopelessly addicted.

Eilim · 03-30-2003, 12:44 AM

hehehe.. Same here, GB. I'm still getting pretty banged up at the early levels, but its my own fault. I'm normally a slow starter in these games, as I take a more RPG approach to playing. As you pointed out earlier falling behind early on can really hurt you, especially if you run into the Drengin early on.

Funny thing is, I don't mind. I actually love it and am holding myself back from going into "pure gamer" mode to beat the game. I'm about to start a new game on a "gigantic" map and "occasional" habitable planets. While I plan on running my normal smaller games alongside, I'm hoping I can get a nice and immersive long term dynasty like game going with those settings like I used to in SEIV.

I'm actually starting to poke around the datafiles now (all nice and easy to decipher text files) to begin work on creating my own little fictional universe/plotline to play in.

Bee · 03-30-2003, 08:33 AM

My understanding was you could "upload" your games and the AI will be adjusted to use your tactics against you, is this correct? If so, it seems that should eliminate any unfair advantage you may have right now.

03-30-2003, 08:54 AM

Eilim,

How does GC compare to SEIV?

Eilim · 03-30-2003, 11:21 AM

I actually had typd up a long post earlier about that but deleted because It was hard for me to sum up. Both are great games. I'd say if your more into the tactical side of things (atleast when it comes to combat.. such as ship design, and specific battle strats) and don't mind micromanaging go with SEIV. If you don't mind a more abstracted combat and a more overall strategic game in the Civ vain (along the lines of Civ2, never played Civ3.) I'd say go with GalCiv.

Ofcourse, if you have the spare cash, get them both, their both great games.

Godzilla Blitz · 03-30-2003, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
My understanding was you could "upload" your games and the AI will be adjusted to use your tactics against you, is this correct? If so, it seems that should eliminate any unfair advantage you may have right now.

I'm skeptical. I know they mention this, but I get a sense that it's something they would like to see happen in the future. I don't see how it could be close to working now, or more efficient (now) than simply telling the developers the problem exists. The strategy has to be coded, and that's going to involve human programming.

The thing here though, is that if the AI repsonds with the same tactic, you've created a whole set of new problems with gameplay: the tech tree unfolds too fast (since everyone is trading tech, the rate of discovery goes much much faster), and getting a tech lead becomes impossible (everyone trades tech to each other, no one gets a lead, techs only advantage is a cash stream). I don't know many of the details, but I understand this was a huge issue in Civ 3. I would much rather see them look at ways to limit human tech trading than see the strategy be picked up by the AI.

Swaggs · 03-30-2003, 01:26 PM

Is this game available at EB or Babbages? Or is it downloadable only?

03-30-2003, 01:36 PM

EB + Amazon + CompUSA + GameStop

Purchase

Thanks Eilim. I will end up getting both but I think GalCiv will be first.

Bee · 03-30-2003, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Godzilla Blitz
I'm skeptical. I know they mention this, but I get a sense that it's something they would like to see happen in the future. I don't see how it could be close to working now, or more efficient (now) than simply telling the developers the problem exists. The strategy has to be coded, and that's going to involve human programming.

The thing here though, is that if the AI repsonds with the same tactic, you've created a whole set of new problems with gameplay: the tech tree unfolds too fast (since everyone is trading tech, the rate of discovery goes much much faster), and getting a tech lead becomes impossible (everyone trades tech to each other, no one gets a lead, techs only advantage is a cash stream). I don't know many of the details, but I understand this was a huge issue in Civ 3. I would much rather see them look at ways to limit human tech trading than see the strategy be picked up by the AI.

I had thought it was already in place. I vaguely remember some of the beta testers commenting on it. I may be way off base, because I haven't looked into it recently but I had thought it would "analyze" your games and determine how best to respond to various tactics (not necessarily use the exact tactics you used, but pull from other games what other gamers did to counter tactics like you are using). Kind of like some huge database or something. Of course, that doesn't remove the need for tweaking, etc if there is a flaw in game balance.

03-30-2003, 03:46 PM

Just went to GameStop and picked up a copy for $42 including tax. Now it's time to get addicted.

Bonegavel · 03-31-2003, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
I had thought it was already in place. I vaguely remember some of the beta testers commenting on it. I may be way off base, because I haven't looked into it recently but I had thought it would "analyze" your games and determine how best to respond to various tactics (not necessarily use the exact tactics you used, but pull from other games what other gamers did to counter tactics like you are using). Kind of like some huge database or something. Of course, that doesn't remove the need for tweaking, etc if there is a flaw in game balance.

From what I understand, the game keeps a record of your "general" strategies and tactics. It wouldn't make sense to record your exact dealings each time and use that for the AI, as no other player would ever choose the exact path as you.

Here is a direct quote from the online manual:

Quote:

GalCiv is also capable of downloading strategies automatically from the net. Submitted scores include basic information on what strategies were employed (what technologies were researched and in what order, what ships and improvements you built in what order, your style of playing, your moral strategy, the type of strategy employed overall, etc.). The GalCiv AI can then download this information from the Metaverse to improve both the quality of the AI and the humanity of it.

Eventually, Stardock hopes to allow players to literally choose a player from the Metaverse to play and simulate that player (roughly speaking) in a game. The only thing missing would be the time waiting for others to move and disconnects!

So, it seems that the game is downloading the info behind the scenes and implementing the logic of the other players.

I think recording actual player's tactics and using that in the AI is brilliant. Especially when the computer opponents play by the exact same rules as the human (as they claim).

FWIW, I had a blast with it this weekend playing GalCiv, and if you look at my score in the Metaverse (handle: BoneGavel) you will notice that I am horrible at the game, but still having a blast. To me, this is the mark of a great game; you suck at it and lose, but still have a great time.

One of the few things that is pissing me off is the fact that too many people keep asking me for money. Now, if they are friends and need some cash and I have plent to spare, no problem. But, they always ask when I have negative credits (usually around -300 to -500). When your friends ask and you reject it because you have none to spare, they get a bit peeved. I could see it working like that some times, but for the most part your "friends" should understand and stop asking, or let you respond with "hey, I would love to but I have -790 credits right now and am running a deficit every month".

Another thing that would be nice is the ability to equip ships with different arsenals. I realise that doing this and keeping track of the different abilities of your ships can turn out nightmarish (like Sid M's Alpha Centauri), but I would be confident that StarDock could pull off a simple, yet effective way to manage this.

enjoy

Bee · 03-31-2003, 08:42 AM

Thanks for the info on the AI BoneGravel. I couldn't remember exactly how it worked, but I remember being impressed with the overall concept.

Bonegavel · 03-31-2003, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bee
Thanks for the info on the AI BoneGravel. I couldn't remember exactly how it worked, but I remember being impressed with the overall concept.

No problem :-) and I agree.

It is a shame that MOO3 and GalCiv couldn't somehow be combined, as there are aspects of both that would add to the others gameplay. I must say that I love the 3D, rotatable map from MOO3.

NevStar · 03-31-2003, 09:20 AM

I picked this up this weekend.

My box is only 500 MHz, 128 MB RAM, which is below the listed minimum requirements. It seemed to run fine with a Small universe, as long as I closed all my background progs first.

I was up till 3 am last night. Although I'm still in my first game, I'm really digging this game so far.

03-26-2003, 03:24 PM	#6
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	Im very interested as well. __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014

03-26-2003, 04:03 PM	#7
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Count me in as an interested party. With the disappointment surrounding MOO3, we 4x fans need some good news. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-26-2003, 04:08 PM	#8
Laddin Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio	Count me in as the interested type. Disappointing news about MOO3, I was such a big fan of MOO1 & MOO2. __________________ Help, I live in Cincinnati

03-26-2003, 05:31 PM	#11
Bonegavel Awaiting Further Instructions... Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Macungie, PA	UPDATE Wow. Unlike MOO3, you are an active participant and make the choices. The tech tree is reminiscent of Civ. There are different areas to delve into and you can easily see what the different paths will give your civ. I can easily see many games spent just trying different combos of tech research. I don't read manuals (maybe this is why MOO3 is killing me) and i already feel comfortable with things. I easily figured out how build colony ships and colonize other planets (something I was unable to do in MOO3). There are some Ultima-like morality choices to make from time to time. You can either be Good, Neutral, or Evil in your choices. Each choice has a consequence. I didn't mean to post so little, but I want to leak this out as it hits me. enjoy __________________

03-26-2003, 05:43 PM	#12
Havok College Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida	There is a good review of Galatic Civialzations at gamespot. I've always been a fan of Space sims. I have MOO 1 and 2 and Space Empires 3 and 4. But after i read the bad reviews of MOO 3 i was pretty disappointed. __________________ Maniacal Misfitz - We're better than you and we know it!

03-26-2003, 09:44 AM	#2
Calis College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Kansas	Very interested to hear what you think of this game. I'm not a spacey-game fan, but I think this one sounded pretty interesting. Eagerly awaiting impressions.

03-26-2003, 09:46 AM	#3
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I'd be interested in your opinions on the United Planets and the domestic politics and how they are implemented in the game. The political part of the game is what I find most intriguing, while only a small part of the game I'm curious to see how it will fit into the overall game.

03-26-2003, 09:53 AM	#4
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Bonegavel, What are the minimum hardware requirements?

03-26-2003, 03:02 PM	#5
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Me want impression/review. Please.

03-26-2003, 05:21 PM	#10
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Oh well...

03-26-2003, 09:15 PM	#13
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Just heard about this one a couple of days ago... All the reports of outstanding AI, good game design, emphasis on the single-player game, and fun decisions were too good to pass up on this game: I just picked it up this afternoon. I'm taking a short gaming break this weekend, and will try to post some impressions. If things go really well, I might do a short mini-dynasty with a small galaxy. There's an extensive triple review here. It doesn't delve too much into the AI, but from all reports it is outstanding, and plays with a very human feel to it. Each of the 6 alien races has their own, individually coded AI. Here are some gameplay examples written by the designer. The "Developer Humbled" one sold me on the game. I'm also excited by the fact that the tiny galaxy games can be played in an hour or so, and small apparently take only a few hours. Life's busy, and it would be nice to play an entire turn-based game as a quick break. Sachmo, Depending on your system, you might still be ok with this one if you're close to the system specs. In that above review, one of the reviewers says he's running it on a P3 850mhz with no slowdowns at all. I think I've heard a couple of other people say they have no problems running the game on lesser setups. I'll be running it on a P3 800mhz and will post if I have performance troubles. The company really seems to have their act together and the system requirements may be more for the "huge" galaxy setups, which result in massive games that would probably choke the life out of lowly computers. Knowing how much you like SEIV, I think you would love this game (if it's anywhere close to it's hype), even if you are restricted to playing on the bottom three or four galaxy sizes. Last edited by Godzilla Blitz : 03-26-2003 at 11:05 PM.

03-26-2003, 10:15 PM	#14
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Thanks, GB, but I am running a PII 300 (yes, that's a 2!) so I doubt it would even boot up. I'll just live through you guys until I get a new computer...in a few years...

03-27-2003, 08:49 AM	#16
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Yes, babies are expensive, and since number 2 is due in August, it's only going to get worse! The other issue is that my computer is still running just fine, and I don't really have a need to upgrade right now. Eventually I will, but for now I'm ok. The good news is that a Fry's is opening right by my house, so when I am ready to upgrade, I'll be able to do it relatively cheap!

03-27-2003, 09:34 AM	#17
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Initial Reactions... So far I give it a +4, meaning that I went to bed 4 hours later than I wanted to (4AM instead of midnight). Given that I knew I needed to get up at 6:30AM, that's a pretty good start for the game. Definitely has the "just one more turn" force in it. The analogy of Civilization in space is right on the mark. I haven't played nearly enough to make a final judgement, but so far so good. Random thoughts... Just to try to figure out how to do stuff, I'm fumbling through a small galaxy game with all 5 opponents set at beginner (one above the lowest level of idiot). There are also a couple of minor nations involved, so altogether there are 8 civilizations in this particular game. The beginner AI isn't putting up much of a show so far, but that perhaps is to be expected given that it's only one click above idiot, and there are six or more AI levels, if I remember correctly. After about 20 years of game play I am far in front of the pack in all measures of achievement: population, colonies, economy, culture, military, research. They were slow out of the gate, and by the time they got going, I had colonies on the best empty planets in the galaxy. The key in the development stages however, was getting a colony on a huge fertile planet that is far and away the best planet in the galaxy. If this planet had been close to one of my opponents, I'm not sure if I would have as big of a lead. Now that all the good stuff is claimed, it's time to start either eliminating civilizations for a conquest victory, strengthening culture for a cultural victory, or making alliances for an aliance victory. It's also possible to get a "research victory", but the game status screen says that I'm 65% of the way to a cultural victory, 55% of the way towards a conquest victory (I own a lot of the galaxy), and only 2% of the way towards a research victory, so that does not seem to be the way to go right now. I went to bed at the point of trying to decide whether to attack some of the evil civilizations or go on a massive, peaceful, culture spreading spree. I was hoping to try the alliance route, as I've got some friends out there, but I can't figure out how to offer alliances yet. Fun stuff, in no particular order... Trading between nations is very well done, and you can trade all kinds of stuff, in all kinds of creative ways. Because I don't know the value of things, it's hard to tell how good the AI is at this, but I get a sense that it knows what it's doing. One neat thing is that your diplomatic and military strengths (two different concepts) affect the deals you get. The scope, scale, and flow of the game work very well. There are lots of fun choices to make, and so far, little micromanagement. Managing planets is getting a bit tedious now that I have a dozen or so of them, but I have yet to mess with the Govenors, which look like an excellent way to solve the micromanagement issue. There's lots of stuff to find and explore. The research tree seems deep, rich, and well thought out. Everything seems to fit together. This is a game that doesn't overreach, and tries to do the things it does well, rather than trying to do everything. Other stuff... Still haven't fought any battles yet. My opponents left me alone during the beginning of the game, and now they're scared of me. However, combat (from what the manual says) and ship design are simplified compared to MOO2 or SEIV. The "think Civ, not MOO2" concept is the best way to imagine this. The graphics are adequate. There are some neat cut-seen movies that add to the feel of the game, but otherwise not much eye candy. I don't need much to keep my happy graphic-wise, so your mileage may vary here. I played the game blind, without looking at the manual for more than a minute, and for the most part could figure out how to do things with the help of some random clicking. However, I'm not sure yet how to do quite a few basic things (e.g. I have the technology to "make alliances", but I see no way to offer an alliance to a friendly civ in the diplomacy/trading screen). Unfortunately, the tutorial in the game isn't much help (it's not really there, from what I can tell), and reading the manual didn't clear up any of the questions I had. Other people have mentioned it, but the game and manual really need to give you more information on the technology tree. Although some of the choices are intuitive, you really don't know what are particular choice will do for you. Fortunately there seems to be extensive help on the internet. Anyway, I should be back to the game sometime later, and will post more. I'm curious to see how the AI plays at more legitimate levels, as this will be the key factor as to whether the game gets a thumbs up or down. First I want to finish my current game, as I have seen a couple of interesting moves by the computer in the last couple of years, and I want to see what happens. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

03-27-2003, 09:41 AM	#18
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Dola... Sachmo, Me too on the second baby. Number two is due in October! I read the manual last night, and you might want to check over at the website (www.galciv.com), about wheter the game will run on your system. The manual says this... Q: I would like to run the game on an older computer. Is there anything I can do to do this? A: Yes, most of the hardware requirements...revolve around the multimedia. You can delete the .BLK files and this will remove the videos. Some parts of the game may look static or strange, but it will allow you to play on an older system. Check (our) website for other tips. I hear this company will go out of their way to help a customer, so firing off an email to them might be worth a shot if you're interested in the game. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

03-27-2003, 09:53 AM	#19
AgPete College Prospect Join Date: Jan 2001	Like others said, I'm interested in this game too, especially after the failure of MOO3. Gamespot gave it a pretty good review. (8.4) I might try it. Graphics and sound are the only categories that brought the overall score down and those are two areas I really don't care about. Sports sims get the same treatment in their reviews. http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/galacticcivilizations/review.html __________________ Click here for the FOF2004 World Football League Dynasty (WFL) - Football Goes Global! OOTP5 Psychology Experiment (Incomplete but fun read for MLB fans.) The FOFC All-Time NFL Team - Voted on by FOFC members.

03-27-2003, 09:57 AM	#20
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Congrat, Zilla!! Fatherhood is the best job in the world, IMO. I think I will send them an email and see. That would be cool if I could play it. Very, very cool. Keep the reviews coming, guys!

03-28-2003, 12:38 AM	#22
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	My opinion of this game is rising fast. I finished that first game, playing against the standard opponents set at beginner in a small galaxy, and ended up winning via cultural victory. I allied with the Slug things (the Yor maybe?) and rolled over the Evil Apes (Drengin?) and Beserkers (Evil Robots, forgot the name). Not much of a fight on beginner. At this point the jury was still out. Started a new game, same basic set up except that I set all the AI opponents to "normal", and gave myself what I think were some lesser abilities. Wow! What a difference! The AI has come to life. It agressively builds and expands, and seems to come out of the gate with a solid starting strategy. I grabbed what I could nearby, and managed to grab a small edge in colonies mostly by accepting weak 13- and 14-rated planets into the fold. But the galaxy real estate has gone fast. Now I'm racing the other AI's for those resource points, but I'm losing more than my fair share here. There have been two or three times when I arrived one month (one turn) too late. Bastards. Basically, this one is anyone's game. There's an empty gap with no planets right down the middle of the galaxy. The two evil empires have the entire west side of the galaxy to themselves, and the Evil Apes (Drengin) have built themselves a formidible position. The other two good civilizations, the neutral civilization, and I are crammed into the east side of the galaxy. My plan is to set the foundation for an east-side alliance to combat the Evil Apes, who I think would crush any one of us separately. To that end, I'm trading techs with the good civilizations and starting to set up trade routes to foster further interdependence. I've got relations up to "friendly" so far with the other two good civs. I'm hoping to have at least a three-civilization armada ready to wipe the Evil Apes out if they come across that no-man's land in force. Got to hurry though, as there's not much unclaimed stuff left in the galaxy, and I've got to believe that we're heading for a military buildup in the galaxy in the near future. I've got a better handle on the interface now, and that is making things a lot easier to manage. The Govenors make the planets pretty easy to manage, so far. As I've learned the interface, I've realized that it's pretty easy to get the game to do the things you want it to do. There are some annoying design decisions (launching ships, no rally points for ships, etc.), but nothing too annoying yet. I really like the diplomatic model and the fact that there are four viable ways to win the game (research, cultural, alliance, and conquest). It gives you a lot of options for creative play. Still not 100% decided on this game, but it has been a blast in this second game so far. It is definitely a game that makes you think hard about the decisions you make, and gives you lots of fun decisions to make. The tech tree is incredible. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

03-28-2003, 01:01 AM	#23
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	kind of a tangent, but there's an interesting set of articles by Brad Wardell (Gal Civ designer) at Avault about making money via the internet. it's a 4 part series (about 6-9 months old) - really good reading __________________ Mile High Hockey

03-28-2003, 06:23 AM	#24
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Thanks a bunch for the in-depth commentary, 'Zilla. I have already added this one to my must-have list, in part because of what you've said in this thread. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-28-2003, 06:40 AM	#25
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	I followed the beta quite closely and the game looked like it was going to be a good one. The problem is right now there are too many good games and not enough time. I just received Europa 1400, Freelancer and CM4 is on the way. I need to quit work so I have more time to play games.

03-28-2003, 09:26 AM	#26
A-Husker-4-Life College Prospect Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Nebraska	I downloaded it yesterday and installed it last night... Wow what a relief, is game is cool... THanks infogram for putting out a fun game, MOO3 is very complex, Civ3 is kinda boring, is game has it all... In my first game, my Civ was totally wiped out in less than 30 turns, but I'll tell you it was very fun... In my next game, I think i'm going to turn down the opponents difficulty down to sub-normal, I had them all at normal.... __________________ JJ Smitty Owner of the TheC.F.L. - Come by and check us out.

03-28-2003, 12:23 PM	#28
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	Yes. Yes, it does. Heh.

03-28-2003, 05:54 PM	#29
daedalus Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	By the way, it was mentioned in the impression thread on GoneGold that you can find some good information at the JavaScout's website

03-28-2003, 08:29 PM	#30
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	So far so good. Just finished the second game. Got an alliance victory that went "roughly" according to plan. There is some cool stuff in this game. I was fighting a see-saw battle with the Evil Apes in the Evil Robot's home sector as part of a three-civilization alliance against the Apes, when all of a sudden one of my allies, the Utopians, declare war on the Robots. I have to jump in, but now I'm in deep shit, as all the Evil Robot ships come pouring out of their systems after my ships. I retreat out of the sector at full speed with my precious but badly outgunned warships, but this leaves a slew of lumbering battleaxe ships bearing down on an advanced spacestation that I had set up in the sector, and I've got three expensive, full, and god-awful slow transports full of troops surrounded there as well. Things looked grim--I'm about two turns from losing the spacestation and all the transports--until I manage to sneak in a construction ship into the spacestation that allows me to build some kind of a wave-jamming module that slows down enemy ships in the sector by one move per turn, effectively freezing all the slow enemy ships where they are. They were scattered all over the sector as they closed in on my spacestation and transports, so now I turn my fleet around, go back in, and rip them apart one-by-one. Within a year the whole sector--the heart of the Evil Robot empire--was cleared of enemy presence. Warm up the fat lady! Game over! What a rush seeing a crushing disaster get turned into a decisive victory with just one small ship adding one small feature to a spacestation at literally the last second. Cool stuff, indeed. Well worth the price of admission. The AI was respectable on the normal level. It did do some questionable things, mostly along the lines of not pushing advantages and not using ships effectively, but that may just be part of the "normal" level. I'll try moving up a notch in the next game. One of the things that I did like was the fact that the game throws things at you to keep you on your toes even in the endgame, when normally these games are just a matter of time if you've got a big lead. First, I got a message that the Yoda Slugs (the Yor) developed some ancient technology that would allow them to grow infinitely stronger very quickly, and that I should eliminate them before it would be too late. They only had one system left at the time, and they had been a willing minor ally, so I left them alone on principle. The game didn't go on that much further, but I wonder what would have happened if it had. Also, a massive space shark popped in to the galaxy and wraught some havoc. Lastly, the Yoda Slugs found a huge space craft from an ancient civilization on one of their planets. Had they been an enemy, it would have been tough to take out. Even though I was reasonably certain I would win after that major battle ripped the guts of the enemy and gave me a decisive advantage in planets, tech, etc., I never felt 100% comfortable with the lead until it was all over. Good stuff. I also like the scale and scope of the game a lot. So many games today try to do everything, and end up falling far short. This game tries to stay within its limits and provide a solid single-player challenge. I'm still on the fence, as the AI at the normal level looks very beatable, but I'm guessing that it will be a tough fight at the next levels up. If it is, this game will get a solid thumbs up. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

03-29-2003, 05:02 PM	#31
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Dola... Aarrgh! Stayed up all night last night playing this damn game. +8 on the bedtime rating scale... Played a small galaxy with AI opponents set to "bright"... Not sure the AI accolades are all that warranted, at least at this level. It wasn't too much of a challenge to beat the game, once you get past the opening. The AI opponents still seem to do some questionable things at the bright level, and the path to victory was straightforward. Having said that, the AI has played an outstanding opening game the last two games, and I'd think it would be very hard to win if you fall behind at that stage. I'm also going to guess and say that the people that are reporting losing against the lower levels of AI are falling behind in these first couple of years, when the computer expands agressively and effectively. However, I'm encouraged by the fact that this was still only level 5 of 8 with regards to AI toughness. "Intelligent", "Genius", and "Incredible" are still waiting. At the "bright" level, the AI is definitely more devious than at "normal" level (one of the civs fought a solid losing war against superior forces at the end of the game), but there seem to be basic strategies that would work consistently to beat them. I'm hoping at higher levels the AI uses diplomatic trading more agressively, coordinates attacks better (it tends to attack by sending clusters of unguarded transports at you), attacks more decisively (a couple of strong civilizations had weaker civilizations on their knees and yet they took forever--if they even tried--to invade systems), and has better geopolitical awareness. If I had to say thumbs up or down given what I know now, I'd say thumbs up, but I need to try the next levels up to give a final verdict. The game really is a lot of fun; I've gotten my money's worth all ready. Even if this were the best the AI could play (and I don't think it is), there are a number of tweaks you could make in the game settings to make the game much more challenging. However, I'm hoping that the AI plays better at the higher difficulty levels. Unfortunately, I won't have time to check it out soon, though. After three days of playing, I need to get back to real life (and catch up on sleep). Last edited by Godzilla Blitz : 03-29-2003 at 05:11 PM.

03-29-2003, 06:10 PM	#32
Barkeep49 Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Not too far away	Thanks for your updates Godzilla. They're great.

03-29-2003, 08:30 PM	#33
Eilim High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Foxboro,MA	Curious about something GB, have you played around with the recent "un-official" update in the Gal-Civ forums? Other than some minor fixes and gameplay tweaks, the AI was supposed to have gotten a good boost. I've yet to try it out as I'm still getting my ass handed to me on "normal" while in the feeling out stage of the game.

03-29-2003, 10:54 PM	#34
couriers	Ok, now I am getting really confused on what game to get next. Space Empires IV SuperPower (only $20) Galactic Civ (downloadable) After reading this thread it appears that Gal Civ is quickly moving up the list to number 1. It may be very difficult to stop myself from getting this game in the morning. It is obvious that Gal Civ is better than MOO3 but how does it compare to SEIV?

03-29-2003, 11:11 PM	#35
couriers	BTW, is there a demo available. I was unable to find one but read something about it? Thanks.

03-29-2003, 11:56 PM	#36
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Random Strategies... In case people are interested, I posted this on a different board, but thought some people might be interested here... These are some random strategies for success that worked well in my first two “real” games (at normal and bright AI levels with a small galaxy). Not sure if these strategies will work equally well against higher levels of AI or in different galaxy sizes, or even if they really are good strategy (I’ve only played three games, and still don’t have a good sense for what’s going on). (MIGHT BE CONSIDERED SPOILERS…) . . . . . . . . 1. Successful, aggressive expansion seems to be the key to survival. The AI’s at normal and above expand lightning fast. It is imperative to get more planets than anyone else. What you do in the first twenty turns can go a long way to insuring victory. To open fast you’ve got to get as much money as possible devoted to building colony ships. There are some tricks you can use to do this. First, crank up your taxes at the start of the game to the point where your approval rating is at or less than 60%. Your initial rate will give you too little money. Second crank up your spending to 100%, even if it means burning heavily into the 1000bc buffer the game gives you at the start. Third, crank up the percentage of these funds devoted to building ships. I don’t remember the exact figure, but I think in the last game I set my ships, social, and research numbers at somewhere around 80-0-20 for the first few turns. This will give you rapidly accelerated colony ship production. The key is that you only need to do this until you’ve cranked out enough colony ships and constructors to support your expansion. Fourth, get all planets making colony ships and buy these ships when it makes sense to do so, but use the lowest initial payment so that you spread your debt out over the longest amount of time. Do this sparingly, though: I would think a 50bc debt load each turn could kill you in the middle game. In the last game, I accelerated construction on one colony ship and one constructor to insure that I got a contested resource point and a distant colony. That left me with a 14bc stream of debt for effectively the rest of the game, but there are things you can quickly do to offset this, and 14bc late in the game is chump change if things have gone well elsewhere. 2. Once you realize you don’t need any more colony ships or constructors, switch to a research heavy spending rate. I went to 30-15-65, or something like that, and even switched down to 0-45-55 once I had a some planets loaded with “constructor build bars that were almost full” (these can be converted to warships with no loss, so you can stop production fully and yet be ready on a moments notice to fight a large war if you need to). The key is to get a couple of techs that your opponents don’t have. Once you do that, go trade them, preferably to the good civilizations (who should now have less planets than you do and can’t keep up research-wise). Aggressively trade for other techs, and keep track of the value of techs so that you aren’t getting screwed. Also, use your brain here and don’t give good military stuff to the Drengil, who will use it against you later. At least at the bright level and lower, the AI isn’t aggressively trading tech, and this will give you a large tech lead over the other nations if you do it right. The key here, though, is to be sure to tweak the trades by asking for cash, and spread it out over 50 turns. An AI will pay a lot more money if it is allowed to spread the payments out over a longer period of time. Also, sell techs that for similar income streams. In the last game, I quickly had that negative 14bc stream from expansion covered with a positive 24bc income stream for 50 turns from other countries’ payments to balance tech trades. 3. As the game moves on, adjust tax rates to keep happiness about 60% (set happiness higher if you need to spur population growth, I think), and adjust spending to keep your total about 100-200bc in the black. It’s important to keep your eye on this, as you easily can be burning a 75bc debt per turn later in the game if you aren’t careful. 4. In the expansion, prioritize on identifying systems for your colony ships. Don’t chase after out of the way anomalies early in the game. You can build another survey ship towards the end of the expansion period to try to get some of these. The exception is the floating metal, but even then I would still probably prioritize on system exploration. However, the metal spots have the potential of adding a weapon rating to your survey ship. If you get attack power with your survey ship early in the game, you now have the capability of dramatically weakening the expansion of a neighbor that is competing for systems. If you can take out one enemy’s colony ships and get a couple of systems because you found one of these things (and you think he didn’t): DO IT! A two or three planet lead in this early stage will make your life so much easier later, and winning this war can pay huge economic dividends a few years down the road. 5. During the expansion period, concentrate on getting into as many sectors as possible so that you can keep expanding. If there are two good planets around the same solar system, save that second planet for later, as once you own a system, no one else can grab a planet on the same system (“system”, not “sector”). Grab 14-rated planets (maybe 13-rated if that's the only option) if it is a good way get a foothold in a sector to allow further expansion. At the bright and lower levels, the AI isn’t doing this, and it weakens its opening. Get these planets building soil improvement right away, and then add habitat improvement once you get the tech for that (usually you can trade for this one early on). Be careful though. Too many of these planets will put you in the hole economically, as each one seems to carry a 7-10bc debt with it until it gets to level 15, which appears to be some kind of a break even point. Get only ones that will allow you to get to the next galaxy and continue expanding. Come back and grab more if you have leftover colony ships and can afford the debt. 6. If you are winning a war against an opponent, they will come to you for a peace deal. Never take it straight up unless you are absolutely desperate to stop the war. At some point (it might be the first time, might be later), they will let you can add cash (and maybe tech) to the deal and they will still take it. At this point, it is very likely that they will accept a peace deal that includes massive payments over 50 months. In the last game, I found a weapon upgrade for my survey ship during the expansion, weakened one opponent’s expansion with it, and then got a peace deal from them a couple of years later that paid about 90bc/year for 50 years during the middle five to ten game years. 7. Get the trade tech, make freighters, and set up distant trade routes with good neighbors. The goal of all this is to survive the lightning expansion with more planets than anyone, have a positive income stream from payments from opponents, and have the tech lead within a few years of the expansion period’s end. Once you get this slight edge in planets, tech, and income, you can add more resources into more research, which will give you a larger tech advantage that you can use to build a solid economic lead. With that, it should be easier to deal with all the stuff the game throws at you. Hope that helps. Again, take all this with a grain of salt, especially the exact numbers, as I’m doing it from memory, and have a lot still to learn about the game and how it works. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

03-30-2003, 12:09 AM	#37
Godzilla Blitz College Starter Join Date: Oct 2000	Cougar: I think you'll like it! Sachmo: Thanks, and congrats to you too! Barkeep: Thanks. Glad you like 'em. Elim: No, I haven't downloaded the update, but I may try "just one more game" before I go back to writing my thesis. Time to try the "intelligent" level, which is the AI at full-tilt without any advantages. I've learned that apparently the "bright" level isn't full strength. I'm not sure the upgrade addresses the "tech whoring" strategy though, but maybe the highest level of AI does. I found a couple of posts on the GalCiv boards from other people who claim to be winning easily at the upper levels (bright and intelligent) by using this strategy. I think they are telling the truth, as selling and trading tech gave me a huge advantage in my last game. The key is getting through the beginning in good shape. That's where most people seemed to be getting creamed. If it turns out that you can always win by trading and selling tech, I might just make up a house rule limiting the amount of tech I can trade. I would think that would make the game instantly more difficult. But I'm hoping the game can be played straight up and consistenly be a good challenge. Also, for those playing... I haven't used it (and probably won't), but pressing "Control-N" at the start of the game will give you a new random galaxy. Could be useful if you don't like your initial spot in the galaxy. Downloading update now... Damn it. I'm hopelessly addicted. __________________ Current Blog Projects: Final Fantasy: Lost in Japanese Kaboom Review

03-30-2003, 12:44 AM	#38
Eilim High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Foxboro,MA	hehehe.. Same here, GB. I'm still getting pretty banged up at the early levels, but its my own fault. I'm normally a slow starter in these games, as I take a more RPG approach to playing. As you pointed out earlier falling behind early on can really hurt you, especially if you run into the Drengin early on. Funny thing is, I don't mind. I actually love it and am holding myself back from going into "pure gamer" mode to beat the game. I'm about to start a new game on a "gigantic" map and "occasional" habitable planets. While I plan on running my normal smaller games alongside, I'm hoping I can get a nice and immersive long term dynasty like game going with those settings like I used to in SEIV. I'm actually starting to poke around the datafiles now (all nice and easy to decipher text files) to begin work on creating my own little fictional universe/plotline to play in. Last edited by Eilim : 03-30-2003 at 12:45 AM.

03-30-2003, 08:33 AM	#39
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	My understanding was you could "upload" your games and the AI will be adjusted to use your tactics against you, is this correct? If so, it seems that should eliminate any unfair advantage you may have right now.

03-30-2003, 08:54 AM	#40
couriers	Eilim, How does GC compare to SEIV?