1970 Season Thread (End of season file up!)

[Young Drachma]

File is up.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

But what if you wanted two shots at re-signing someone? Or what if someone was released in FA that you were interested in signing?

I'm sorry, but this was an awful awful idea to do this sim early without properly notifying the league. Frankly, I'm more than a little annoyed at this decision. It's okay to push sim times back in an online league. You never--EVER--move a sim time forward without making it absolutely clear to everyone in the league that that will be done.

You can still have two shots. We'll run a sim tomorrow night that will sim to arbitration and then the Monday sim will go to the start of FA. We've done it before, when both of the FOOL classic teams were in.

[JimmyOOTP]

I can't figure out why you got your players in your trades and i didn't?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JimmyOOTP

Kinda have to agree with you on that one just because i was surprised to get home from work and see that my team had already completed game 4 of the sunday classic. Was kinda hoping to be here for the whole thing but atleast i didn't miss the whole thing. Maybe in the future we need to stick to the dates and times no matter what just so everyone has a fair shot at doing what they need to do. One week per season is already very fast and i like it as im sure most of us do or we wouldn't be here, But less than a week is a little to fast imo.

You should've just not exported and I wouldn't have started.

I assumed you were ready to go.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JimmyOOTP

I can't figure out why you got your players in your trades and i didn't?

Umm..check your designated for assignment list? Moya and Heijnen are there.

[JimmyOOTP]

I left a message on this topic to say i would finish work at 11pm eastern time and sunday 7pm eastern time. But it's all good since i got here in the middle of it.

[JimmyOOTP]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Umm..check your designated for assignment list? Moya and Heijnen are there.

Ahh sorry lol. It's late here i forgot to look there.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

You can still have two shots. We'll run a sim tomorrow night that will sim to arbitration and then the Monday sim will go to the start of FA. We've done it before, when both of the FOOL classic teams were in.

And if someone signed in FA with another team that I might have been interested in? And not just me. That goes for everyone.

Plus, I haven't done any testing on this, but what if the sim date changes resulted in different contract requests from prospective free agents to be? What if someone is paying more now because their request is now coming after the FOOL Classic instead of before. We certainly know this changes with time, and not just with stats produced on the field, but also ratings hits and bumps, which happen all the time.

I appreciate wanting to get to this Classic, and I also appreciate you will run two sims between now and Monday, but I maintain this was not the right decision. You should have waited. There was no harm in waiting, but a lot of potential harm in proceeding.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And if someone signed in FA with another team that I might have been interested in? And not just me. That goes for everyone.

Plus, I haven't done any testing on this, but what if the sim date changes resulted in different contract requests from prospective free agents to be? What if someone is paying more now because their request is now coming after the FOOL Classic instead of before. We certainly know this changes with time, and not just with stats produced on the field, but also ratings hits and bumps, which happen all the time.

I appreciate wanting to get to this Classic, and I also appreciate you will run two sims between now and Monday, but I maintain this was not the right decision. You should have waited. There was no harm in waiting, but a lot of potential harm in proceeding.

It doesn't change anything, except for the two teams that are playing, because a player will change his demand based on his own play. And I've never seen that happen. The model isn't all that sophisticated, sadly. I've done testing on it enough to know it wouldn't be a big deal.

That all being said, your point is well taken and like I said, from now, we'll just do it on Sundays as scheduled unless you all are notified in advance of a scheduling change.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by JimmyOOTP

Kinda have to agree with you on that one just because i was surprised to get home from work and see that my team had already completed game 4 of the sunday classic. Was kinda hoping to be here for the whole thing but atleast i didn't miss the whole thing. Maybe in the future we need to stick to the dates and times no matter what just so everyone has a fair shot at doing what they need to do. One week per season is already very fast and i like it as im sure most of us do or we wouldn't be here, But less than a week is a little to fast imo.

I agree with the dates, but the times IMO are not as important as long as they are not before the scheduled time. Everyone will be able to see the results and they will not change if an owner is not present so I would just sim them whenever. Granted it is nice to have a group discussion when they are simmed, but I do not feel that it is necessary if it works better for you to sim at a different time.

[JimmyOOTP]

I think i know what he means like when i tried to get Dailey cheaper and had to offer him 3 times before i finally got him at the price he asked for. I just wonder if i wouldn't have offered it before the classic and offer it now instead if dailey would still be interested in talking to me for a extension.

[Chief Rum]

Okay, is there any way to see September transactions? My game is only showing October. I want to know which free agents, if any, signed with teams during this sim, and I can't see it in the game.

And is there a reason why this is not easily viewable in the game? Or is that a game issue? It seems extremely odd that we're on October 3 in the game, and I can't see back to September 30 to see what transactions happened.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, is there any way to see September transactions? My game is only showing October. I want to know which free agents, if any, signed with teams during this sim, and I can't see it in the game.

And is there a reason why this is not easily viewable in the game? Or is that a game issue? It seems extremely odd that we're on October 3 in the game, and I can't see back to September 30 to see what transactions happened.

I looked through each teams transactions pages and did not see any one with a September page signifying that no team made any transactions during that month.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Okay, is there any way to see September transactions? My game is only showing October. I want to know which free agents, if any, signed with teams during this sim, and I can't see it in the game.

And is there a reason why this is not easily viewable in the game? Or is that a game issue? It seems extremely odd that we're on October 3 in the game, and I can't see back to September 30 to see what transactions happened.

It's a game issue. At the end of the season, it "ends" the season and clears the transactions and financials and prepares for free agency.

That said, no free agents signed with anyone during the period between the FOOL Classic and now. At least, I dunno why anyone would've, there wasn't anyone new out there to sign except the same players who were there all season.

There are however, people out there now.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I looked through each teams transactions pages and did not see any one with a September page signifying that no team made any transactions during that month.

I saw this, too.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I looked through each teams transactions pages and did not see any one with a September page signifying that no team made any transactions during that month.

That does not mean anything. All teams' transactions are erased before October. So no teams will individually show any transactions before October any more than the league as a whole will show it.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That does not mean anything. All teams' transactions are erased before October. So no teams will individually show any transactions before October any more than the league as a whole will show it.

I see all my teams and several other teams transactions from October 1969 - October 1970

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

That does not mean anything. All teams' transactions are erased before October. So no teams will individually show any transactions before October any more than the league as a whole will show it.

Yesterday, when I looked, there were none. What transactions are you looking for, exactly? Texas signed players in April, but there was room on their roster for this. I think one other team did too, but they didn't have room and so I moved the two players to Triple-A. Those are the only transactions that were made all year until the trades that have been made over the past two days.

What are you looking for?

[Young Drachma]

I just looked in the game setup options. There is an option to "save transaction logs" and so, I'm going to turn that feature on. It wasn't a sinister plot to turn this feature off, I opt to turn as many features off as possible that we can get away with, because things like this keep the file sizes large.

But I was just looking at what might be the problem with the logs going away each year -- as they have for the entire 10 years previous -- and I discovered I had this turned off. It wasn't an issue to people in the past, but it seems to be now.

So I've turned it on "all" and so, I presume that means that from this point forward, the game will maintain all of the logs forever. (The other options are 2 years or 10 years or none) I don't suspect this is a retroactive feature.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It's a game issue. At the end of the season, it "ends" the season and clears the transactions and financials and prepares for free agency.

That said, no free agents signed with anyone during the period between the FOOL Classic and now. At least, I dunno why anyone would've, there wasn't anyone new out there to sign except the same players who were there all season.

There are however, people out there now.

Can we get around this game issue somehow? Or at least show all transactions in September or for the wole season somewhere so we can always review them if need be? This seems like another silly design decision by Markus. What a shock.

As for your last paragraph...I'll go sentence by sentence, makes it easier:

That said, no free agents signed with anyone during the period between the FOOL Classic and now.

How about during the FOOL Classic? Or just before the FOOL Classic, from the last day of the regular season (or the All Star game, if we weren't advanced to Game One yet)?

At least, I dunno why anyone would've, there wasn't anyone new out there to sign except the same players who were there all season.

So you seem to be hinting you don't know for sure if anyone signed? Not exactly reassuring. Especially since you're dead wrong on the inference there is no one out there to sign. Remember, no one has had a chance to make a move since April, and players released in the sim leading up to the season would be out there, as well as guys who simply didn't get an offer for one reason or another. Often, circumstances change drastically from April to September. Sometimes a guy who wasn't seen as needed in April becomes high on the wish list in September. So there are potential free agents of interest out there.

And finally, I noticed Yamazaki is now a free agent. I assume either he was bought out, or his team option on that $20 M contract was not tendered. This brings up another concern for me. With one more day, I might swing cap room for a player like that. Now, I wouldn't have known Yamazaki would be out there, but that doesn't mean I don't make trades. Sure as hell everyone else was making trades tonight, it seems.

What say I clear cap space with a proper sim? Well, then, now I could put a strong offer out for Yamazaki. Now I can't though. I won't get a deal in before the sim, of course, meaning he probably signs for teams with cap space available right now.

There is just so much wrong with this advance sim right now, it is really just killing me.

And speaking of team options, I see Quad City voided a couple of team options (and Toronto looks like they did, too). Can someone tell me how to do this, because I have an option on Larsen next year that I might choose to exercise, and right now I can't find the ability to affect this. I don't see an option on the Contracts & Status page, and nothing comes up when I "offer extension" to see if that is a way to exercise the option (Larsen says he won't discuss a new deal when he's not in the last year of his contract).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Yesterday, when I looked, there were none. What transactions are you looking for, exactly? Texas signed players in April, but there was room on their roster for this. I think one other team did too, but they didn't have room and so I moved the two players to Triple-A. Those are the only transactions that were made all year until the trades that have been made over the past two days.

What are you looking for?

Nothing specific except maybe potential free agent signings. Point is that this should be viewable at all times, at least for the entire previous year, IMO. And it should certainly never be unavailable when we have an early unannounced sim.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I just looked in the game setup options. There is an option to "save transaction logs" and so, I'm going to turn that feature on. It wasn't a sinister plot to turn this feature off, I opt to turn as many features off as possible that we can get away with, because things like this keep the file sizes large.

But I was just looking at what might be the problem with the logs going away each year -- as they have for the entire 10 years previous -- and I discovered I had this turned off. It wasn't an issue to people in the past, but it seems to be now.

So I've turned it on "all" and so, I presume that means that from this point forward, the game will maintain all of the logs forever. (The other options are 2 years or 10 years or none) I don't suspect this is a retroactive feature.

I do not think it is either. I think 10 years should be enough of logs personally, but I guess that depends on how much these logs bulk up the file. Additionally I just looked and 11 of the 16 teams still have logs going back to October 1969. The 5 teams that do not were either involved in trades or had a player retire in October 1970 which caused their logs to disappear.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I see all my teams and several other teams transactions from October 1969 - October 1970

I'm seeing nothing but October transactions. Where are you looking?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm seeing nothing but October transactions. Where are you looking?

Okay, I found my own, at least, through the Manager page. Why on Earth is this different than the transactions as viewed through the individual page for each team, where I would assume one would want to show this? Another odd game decision?

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

And finally, I noticed Yamazaki is now a free agent. I assume either he was bought out, or his team option on that $20 M contract was not tendered. This brings up another concern for me. With one more day, I might swing cap room for a player like that. Now, I wouldn't have known Yamazaki would be out there, but that doesn't mean I don't make trades. Sure as hell everyone else was making trades tonight, it seems.

What say I clear cap space with a proper sim? Well, then, now I could put a strong offer out for Yamazaki. Now I can't though. I won't get a deal in before the sim, of course, meaning he probably signs for teams with cap space available right now.

There is just so much wrong with this advance sim right now, it is really just killing me.

And speaking of team options, I see Quad City voided a couple of team options (and Toronto looks like they did, too). Can someone tell me how to do this, because I have an option on Larsen next year that I might choose to exercise, and right now I can't find the ability to affect this. I don't see an option on the Contracts & Status page, and nothing comes up when I "offer extension" to see if that is a way to exercise the option (Larsen says he won't discuss a new deal when he's not in the last year of his contract).

I noticed Yamazaki and I dont want to be mean but why would anyone cut him as it appears was done? The smart thing to do would have been voided his 20 Million option and picked up his 3 or 4 million arbitration figure just for future reference Additionally a player of the caliber does not usually sign in a week or two, he will wait a month or so for more offers.

As for the option years you recieve an email on them saying action needed and you can the select execute or void option in the drop down menu.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I'm seeing nothing but October transactions. Where are you looking?

On your manager homepage select Transaction Log. You can then select different teams through the team menu to see there logs.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Can we get around this game issue somehow? Or at least show all transactions in September or for the wole season somewhere so we can always review them if need be? This seems like another silly design decision by Markus. What a shock.

For once, this isn't his fault. I fixed the problem. Logs will start showing up forever now.

As for your last paragraph...I'll go sentence by sentence, makes it easier:

That said, no free agents signed with anyone during the period between the FOOL Classic and now.

How about during the FOOL Classic? Or just before the FOOL Classic, from the last day of the regular season (or the All Star game, if we weren't advanced to Game One yet)?

Nope.

At least, I dunno why anyone would've, there wasn't anyone new out there to sign except the same players who were there all season.


So you seem to be hinting you don't know for sure if anyone signed? Not exactly reassuring. Especially since you're dead wrong on the inference there is no one out there to sign. Remember, no one has had a chance to make a move since April, and players released in the sim leading up to the season would be out there, as well as guys who simply didn't get an offer for one reason or another. Often, circumstances change drastically from April to September. Sometimes a guy who wasn't seen as needed in April becomes high on the wish list in September. So there are potential free agents of interest out there.

I'm not hinting that I don't know. I'm certain that no one signed anyone all year, except in the Texas example I knew about and that one other team but I don't recall which it was, that signed two players that I put on their Triple-A roster at the same time on the 28th of April. That was only stoppage all year for FA signing during the season that'd been signed before started in March.

And finally, I noticed Yamazaki is now a free agent. I assume either he was bought out, or his team option on that $20 M contract was not tendered. This brings up another concern for me. With one more day, I might swing cap room for a player like that. Now, I wouldn't have known Yamazaki would be out there, but that doesn't mean I don't make trades. Sure as hell everyone else was making trades tonight, it seems.

He wasn't bought out. Yamazaki had a $20 million team option for next season. My guess is Toronto decided not to exercise this option, which means that he'd become a FA at the end of the year. I talked to Dizzy and I know I mentioned that I tend to dump guys who will be FAs in a few days anyway, because you've paid them all you owe them and it's just a clerical thing to have the game dump them versus you do it before the official start of FA. So I guess he must've done the same thing.

It wasn't a secret that Yamazaki had a team option, as it was in his contract details, which anyone can see if they're curious.

What say I clear cap space with a proper sim? Well, then, now I could put a strong offer out for Yamazaki. Now I can't though. I won't get a deal in before the sim, of course, meaning he probably signs for teams with cap space available right now.

There is just so much wrong with this advance sim right now, it is really just killing me.

No one had the chance to sign him, because he JUST GOT released in this file. This is the first file where he's been available. So everyone has a fair shot to sign him.

And speaking of team options, I see Quad City voided a couple of team options (and Toronto looks like they did, too). Can someone tell me how to do this, because I have an option on Larsen next year that I might choose to exercise, and right now I can't find the ability to affect this. I don't see an option on the Contracts & Status page, and nothing comes up when I "offer extension" to see if that is a way to exercise the option (Larsen says he won't discuss a new deal when he's not in the last year of his contract).

It's an option available to everyone. I almost ALWAYS make the last year of my player contracts have team options for the final year. It's a nice way for me to get from under a deal a little early and I've been doing it since the feature became available in OOTP. You can ONLY do it for the last year. There are team options, player options and mutual options. A player option means a player can either void the last year of the deal (if he wants more money) or accept it, a team option means the team either picks the player up for another year or not and the mutual option is both have to agree.

Hope that clarifies things. Nothing sinister is going on, no one is at a disadvantage here, except maybe if you argue that it's unfair that some invest more time into this than others and that it degrades the quality of play in the league. But given we've had a new league champion each year from 1964 to present, I'd argue that we're doing pretty good in the competitive balance department.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I just looked in the game setup options. There is an option to "save transaction logs" and so, I'm going to turn that feature on. It wasn't a sinister plot to turn this feature off, I opt to turn as many features off as possible that we can get away with, because things like this keep the file sizes large.

But I was just looking at what might be the problem with the logs going away each year -- as they have for the entire 10 years previous -- and I discovered I had this turned off. It wasn't an issue to people in the past, but it seems to be now.

So I've turned it on "all" and so, I presume that means that from this point forward, the game will maintain all of the logs forever. (The other options are 2 years or 10 years or none) I don't suspect this is a retroactive feature.

It may not be necessary to turn it on, as Commo_Soldier found a way that shows past transactions for each team. Although I suspect that way of doing it some sort of bug in the game that probably was supposed to be wiped out, too. Fortunately, it is a helpful bug.

I wouldn't recommend having this on now, since we seem to have a way to view transactions for the past year through the Manager page (you can view other teams' transactions for the past year, BTW, by going to your own Manager page and selecting View Transaction Logs, and then selecting any team from the drop down to view theirs, for anyone who didn't know like me).

I don't think this is nearly as big an issue with me were it not for the unscheduled sim.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I noticed Yamazaki and I dont want to be mean but why would anyone cut him as it appears was done? The smart thing to do would have been voided his 20 Million option and picked up his 3 or 4 million arbitration figure just for future reference Additionally a player of the caliber does not usually sign in a week or two, he will wait a month or so for more offers.

As for the option years you recieve an email on them saying action needed and you can the select execute or void option in the drop down menu.

You would have to ask Toronto about that, I guess. Cutting doesn't matter financially, though. Most teams have tons of cash to use that will disappear next year because of the new financial rules, so if there is a time to just cut a player, now is it.

I appreciate that a player like that may take time to review his offers, but there is nothing saying he won't accept right away. If you want to risk that, go ahead and don't offer Yamazaki anything for the next sim. After all, it's just two weeks, right?

Thanks for the info on the email. I will go look for it.

[Commo_Soldier]

The way I found only works if a team did not make a transaction during October of 1970. If this has been done it rids of their previous logs, so it may be best to have the logs for the last two or so years on.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I do not think it is either. I think 10 years should be enough of logs personally, but I guess that depends on how much these logs bulk up the file. Additionally I just looked and 11 of the 16 teams still have logs going back to October 1969. The 5 teams that do not were either involved in trades or had a player retire in October 1970 which caused their logs to disappear.

10 years should suffice, indeed. I was just...well, anyway...10 years.

[Commo_Soldier]

I am fairly certain Toronto did not know that and instead of voiding the last year he cut him. I just wanted other teams to know that in tests I have done if the player is arbitration eligible (can be viewed in the salary report it will have a salary with an "(a)" after it) the year after his option year you will be able to void the option and pick up the arbitration figure. That is unless something changed from 9.1.2 to 9.1.6

Also Yamazuki just was released this sim as DC said so no-one would have known to clear up cap room.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

It may not be necessary to turn it on, as Commo_Soldier found a way that shows past transactions for each team. Although I suspect that way of doing it some sort of bug in the game that probably was supposed to be wiped out, too. Fortunately, it is a helpful bug.

I wouldn't recommend having this on now, since we seem to have a way to view transactions for the past year through the Manager page (you can view other teams' transactions for the past year, BTW, by going to your own Manager page and selecting View Transaction Logs, and then selecting any team from the drop down to view theirs, for anyone who didn't know like me).

I don't think this is nearly as big an issue with me were it not for the unscheduled sim.

I turned it on anyway, just so there is no confusion.

That said, I get your point about the "unscheduled sim" but both teams were exported, it's not going to fundamentally change anything and the dates aren't even different than they would be normally. If anything, this gives folks two actual days to prepare for free agency than the normal one -- which I find to be difficult for a lot of people with it being Sunday night and all.

We've run the FOOL Classic sim early in past FOOL seasons, though apparently it'd been a while, and it's not demonstrably affected free agency because it's all semantics. It's always conversely been that the sim between the end of the regular season and the FOOL Classic is really most important to get the two teams exported who will play and for everyone else, things start after that.

But again, as I finish and move onto other topics...point is well taken, situation is taken care of. Things are fine and they will be.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I am fairly certain Toronto did not know that and instead of voiding the last year he cut him. I just wanted other teams to know that in tests I have done if the player is arbitration eligible (can be viewed in the salary report it will have a salary with an "(a)" after it) the year after his option year you will be able to void the option and pick up the arbitration figure. That is unless something changed from 9.1.2 to 9.1.6

Also Yamazuki just was released this sim as DC said so no-one would have known to clear up cap room.

Well he did void the deal. I think he just didn't realize he could resign him to a different figure. I'm not sure anyone will be crying about the chance to sign him, tho.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Well he did void the deal. I think he just didn't realize he could resign him to a different figure. I'm not sure anyone will be crying about the chance to sign him, tho.

I know I am not crying. But I do not know how he would have voided the deal however, as the options just became available this sim and he would have been arbitration eligible so it would not have released him but rather sent him through arbitration.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I know I am not crying. But I do not know how he would have voided the deal however, as the options just became available this sim and he would have been arbitration eligible so it would not have released him but rather sent him through arbitration.

Well now that you say that, looking at his player file, it says he was released. So I guess he did release him and Keegan (Dizzy to you folk) doesn't know what he's talking about, he just saw $20 million and probably balked.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

He wasn't bought out. Yamazaki had a $20 million team option for next season. My guess is Toronto decided not to exercise this option, which means that he'd become a FA at the end of the year. I talked to Dizzy and I know I mentioned that I tend to dump guys who will be FAs in a few days anyway, because you've paid them all you owe them and it's just a clerical thing to have the game dump them versus you do it before the official start of FA. So I guess he must've done the same thing.

It wasn't a secret that Yamazaki had a team option, as it was in his contract details, which anyone can see if they're curious.

It's not an active team option where Toronto has to actively hit a button, from what I have seen (correct me if I am wrong). It appears that the game will go ahead and assume you accept the option if you do nothing. So it wasn't a matter of Toronto choosing to exercise the option--Dizzy likely had to actively decline the option. Regardless, I only offered that up on Yamazaki because I couldn't tell what happened with him (since I hadn't figured out how to view past transactions yet).

As for the suggestion that I am saying there was anything nefarious about Yamazaki's release or that his option wasn't common knowledge, that was never my intent (so you may be reading a little too much into that).

BTW, on the free agent thing, that would be one more thing I might have done prior to this sim that might free up cap space for use on Yamazaki or on anyone. One more thing I don't get to do with an early sim.

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

No one had the chance to sign him, because he JUST GOT released in this file. This is the first file where he's been available. So everyone has a fair shot to sign him.

I know, and I never said otherwise. The fact is, though, that teams could have made additional moves to free up cap space via trades or releases or exercisies options, things they could have done this past sim. If Yamazaki signs this sim, those teams that might have cleared cap room to make an offer on him will have been denied the opportunity to do so by the early sim.

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

It's an option available to everyone. I almost ALWAYS make the last year of my player contracts have team options for the final year. It's a nice way for me to get from under a deal a little early and I've been doing it since the feature became available in OOTP. You can ONLY do it for the last year. There are team options, player options and mutual options. A player option means a player can either void the last year of the deal (if he wants more money) or accept it, a team option means the team either picks the player up for another year or not and the mutual option is both have to agree.

Thanks for the info. I have already been using options a lot, but this is the first time I had gotten to a point in the contract where I had the chance to exercise one.

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Hope that clarifies things. Nothing sinister is going on, no one is at a disadvantage here, except maybe if you argue that it's unfair that some invest more time into this than others and that it degrades the quality of play in the league. But given we've had a new league champion each year from 1964 to present, I'd argue that we're doing pretty good in the competitive balance department.

It does, and I'm not saying there is anything sinister going on. I am just saying that, the more we look at this, the more and more I am finding that that early sim really could have serious ramifications for the teams who did not get notice of the early sim and a chance to make moves of their own.

IMO, no free agent signings should be allowed for the Sunday sim. That freezes all signings and gives everyone the chance to get up to speed with the early exporters financially, in the time frame they were originally told would be in place. But that's just my opinion.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I am fairly certain Toronto did not know that and instead of voiding the last year he cut him. I just wanted other teams to know that in tests I have done if the player is arbitration eligible (can be viewed in the salary report it will have a salary with an "(a)" after it) the year after his option year you will be able to void the option and pick up the arbitration figure. That is unless something changed from 9.1.2 to 9.1.6

Also Yamazuki just was released this sim as DC said so no-one would have known to clear up cap room.

Yes, but people might have been clearing cap room just as that is what they do (like DC says he does). Or people might have made trades that would impact their cap situation, trades they didn't think they needed to rush since they had until Sunday.

It's not about knowing Yamazaki is available. It's about that people may have made plans for this past sim that would have them in a different spot right now than they are currently. And they could be at a disadvantage now with Yamazaki or any other players financially for this sim because they were unable to participate in this sim.

As for the arbitration thing, I definitely know that was the case, as I remember looking at Toronto's salary table when we had the discussion about Yamazaki's balloon contract year a few days ago, and also earlier Saturday when Dizzy said in the Trade Block that he was making everyone available. I believe Yamazaki was going to be paid $8.4 M for his final arbitration year, I think, in 1972 (the drop from $20 M to $8.4 M (A) piqued my interest and stood out to me).

[Young Drachma]

I don't clear cap room. I release guys who I know are going to become free agents a few days before the start of FA because 1) doesn't cost anything and 2) I get tired of looking at them on my 25-man roster and I like to start planning my assets.

Back when I had a team that was at/near the cap every year, I didn't cut salary at this phase, it was almost always after FA had started. I'd release guys then, if I saw who I wanted or came up with a gameplan to make something work. Hence those creative trades of the past.

No one is at a disadvantage. Everyone who wants to put an offer in, will do so in time for tonight's file. If anything, this was the best possible scenario, because if there is a bidding war for him for tomorrow's file, he could wait to sign and ask for more money because of all of the competing offers out there, giving everyone another day before free agency to offer him money.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I don't clear cap room. I release guys who I know are going to become free agents a few days before the start of FA because 1) doesn't cost anything and 2) I get tired of looking at them on my 25-man roster and I like to start planning my assets.

Back when I had a team that was at/near the cap every year, I didn't cut salary at this phase, it was almost always after FA had started. I'd release guys then, if I saw who I wanted or came up with a gameplan to make something work. Hence those creative trades of the past.

No one is at a disadvantage. Everyone who wants to put an offer in, will do so in time for tonight's file. If anything, this was the best possible scenario, because if there is a bidding war for him for tomorrow's file, he could wait to sign and ask for more money because of all of the competing offers out there, giving everyone another day before free agency to offer him money.

Anyone who did not get to put in a sim is at a potential disadvantage. Only that person knows what they intended to do with yesterday's sim. But if they planned to make a move, such as a trade, that would free cap space, they will not be able to offer that cap space to anyone until after tonight's sim. And that puts them at a disadvantage. And guys available now--including Yamazaki--could sign in the Sunday night sim. That is why I think the fairest way is to not let free agents sign for Sunday night's sim only. It's a catch up sim for the rest of us.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I don't clear cap room. I release guys who I know are going to become free agents a few days before the start of FA because 1) doesn't cost anything and 2) I get tired of looking at them on my 25-man roster and I like to start planning my assets.

Back when I had a team that was at/near the cap every year, I didn't cut salary at this phase, it was almost always after FA had started. I'd release guys then, if I saw who I wanted or came up with a gameplan to make something work. Hence those creative trades of the past.

No one is at a disadvantage. Everyone who wants to put an offer in, will do so in time for tonight's file. If anything, this was the best possible scenario, because if there is a bidding war for him for tomorrow's file, he could wait to sign and ask for more money because of all of the competing offers out there, giving everyone another day before free agency to offer him money.

To be fair not everyone will be able to sign him as it goes of the current years payroll and some may not have the room and their owner is telling them no (Brooklyn and others I am sure). I do think that he will still be a free agent however come the start of free agency as Rich Lang was when I got him.

[Commo_Soldier]

I am starting to think for everyones sake maybe we should have our team subimitted for the entire season to include playoffs and not accept any exports until after the Classic. Then there should hopefully be no tensions from anyone. In reality this is an offseason league anyways and the classic is not exactly the offseason so it would not be a strech to expect the lineups to be submitted before the start of the season. If your team got there you must have had something set up right.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I am starting to think for everyones sake maybe we should have our team subimitted for the entire season to include playoffs and not accept any exports until after the Classic. Then there should hopefully be no tensions from anyone. In reality this is an offseason league anyways and the classic is not exactly the offseason so it would not be a strech to expect the lineups to be submitted before the start of the season. If your team got there you must have had something set up right.

I see what you're saying, but I think it's still better to have that sim, so long as everyone has the opportunity to use it. The Classic is a 9-game series against a specific opponent, and regular season lineups are just not ideal. I would be upset as a Classic participant, for instance, if my #5 starter started a key World Series game, or if a backup on a regular rotation got into the lineup in place of a key starter just because his turn came up.

I see exactly what you're saying, but I think this is a good sim to have. It is useful for extensions and for signing free agents, too, when there are good ones available.

Quad City is in fact starting a pitcher I acquired in this very same sim a few years ago--former top Colorado prospect David Hardee. Quality free agents were more common then, before the "draft era", but they do still happen. Last year, there were several solid vet players who for some reason or another did not get signed in April, and I know a couple of them signed in that sim last year.

So it is a useful sim, IMO, for both Classic participants and non.

[Chief Rum]

BTW, I assume if I decline an option for a player, that player is removed from my next year's payroll, which means right now, my extension space should increase, right?

Also, has anyone declined an option and then resigned said player to an extension, or is the player pretty much pissed off by the move and refuses to talk to you?

Lastly, on Yamazaki, if Toronto made a bit of a boo boo there from releasing a player they didn't necessarily need to, should we allow Dizzy the option to reconsider having just cut him? Is there a way to restore that contract and allow him to just void the contract and regain the arbitration rights? I certainly understand if everyone says no way, Toronto has to live by the decision, but I thought I would throw it out there.

Oh, BTW, I discovered I was wrong on the option automatically picking up. I thought that was the case because I thought I had an option year on Hendricks' contract (ended two years ago), but on reading my option emails on Larsen and Rivera, I see that you have to activate the option to make it stick. Just to put that out there before anyone reads and responds to my "correct me if I am wrong" a few posts up (I was wrong, lol).

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

BTW, I assume if I decline an option for a player, that player is removed from my next year's payroll, which means right now, my extension space should increase, right?

Also, has anyone declined an option and then resigned said player to an extension, or is the player pretty much pissed off by the move and refuses to talk to you?

Lastly, on Yamazaki, if Toronto made a bit of a boo boo there from releasing a player they didn't necessarily need to, should we allow Dizzy the option to reconsider having just cut him? Is there a way to restore that contract and allow him to just void the contract and regain the arbitration rights? I certainly understand if everyone says no way, Toronto has to live by the decision, but I thought I would throw it out there.

Oh, BTW, I discovered I was wrong on the option automatically picking up. I thought that was the case because I thought I had an option year on Hendricks' contract (ended two years ago), but on reading my option emails on Larsen and Rivera, I see that you have to activate the option to make it stick. Just to put that out there before anyone reads and responds to my "correct me if I am wrong" a few posts up (I was wrong, lol).

If you decline an option then yes they will come off of next years payroll, but if they are arbitration eligible the next year on the salary report with show the arbitration estimate.

I declined two options this year, one because arbitration was cheaper and the second because he wanted way to much money. I offered the second an extension as he was considerably cheaper. That is if his meet demand price was accurate.

As for Yamasaki I think it should go into a bidding war as he was outright released when if he would have waited he could have declined the option. I am not sure as to how much experience Dizzy has playing this game but I feel if anyone has a question everyone in this league or on the OOTP boards are more than happy to provide an answer.

[Chief Rum]

Oh, as an FYI to everyone.

I went back to see if we had FOOL Classics played ahead of time, because when DC said that, it seemed familiar to me, too. But actually, every FOOL Classic since the league went to 2009 has been played on the Sunday of that week except for 1964--which was played on Monday (I remember we had some issue that delayed it; forget what). We may have had FOOL Classic start an hour or two early. Not sure about that. But they all still happened on their designated day (which is odd, because I could swear DC was on the nose with that one).

Incidentally, I think it is a sign of the evolution of the league that this is potentially a big deal. I think as originally intended, the break between the regular season and Classic was exactly what it seems to be--a chance for the Classic teams to get their lineups straight. It just seemed like a good time for teams to make exports as well, so DC would gather imports, but I think it was always sorta as an aside, "that's not what this sim is for, but okay..."

Now, however, it has evolved into a potentially bigger sim. Certainly not to the level of an offseason free agency sim or the final roster sim, but it is another opportunity for people in the league to DO something. We only get six shots every week to make changes for an entire year. Think about that. Six exports for running an entire season.

So as stinky as I have made this issues, I think it is also a sign of the evolution of the league, and I think that's terrific. We're "into it."

Or I am the only one. Which would be sad (but I know that's not true).

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

I offered the second an extension as he was considerably cheaper. That is if his meet demand price was accurate.

Awesome. So the second guy didn't blackball you for declining the option? Good. I would like to bring back Larsen, but $16 M (i.e. almost 1/4 of my cap space) is a bit much.

[Chief Rum]

Interesting factoid. I was reviewing my salary report, when I realized that over $43 M of my $54 M payroll this year was paid to just five players (Larsen, Miyahara, Gonzalez, Alvarado and Rivera).

If I pick up the options on Larsen and Rivera, and taking into consideration the extension I signed Alvarado to, those same five players will take up $49.1 M of a $62 M payroll. Wow, talk about out of balance. Just a handful of expensive vets, and everyone else is a kid or a vet I managed to sign for cheap.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Interesting factoid. I was reviewing my salary report, when I realized that over $43 M of my $54 M payroll this year was paid to just five players (Larsen, Miyahara, Gonzalez, Alvarado and Rivera).

If I pick up the options on Larsen and Rivera, and taking into consideration the extension I signed Alvarado to, those same five players will take up $49.1 M of a $62 M payroll. Wow, talk about out of balance. Just a handful of expensive vets, and everyone else is a kid or a vet I managed to sign for cheap.

On this note I did notice something interesting that may deal with loyalty and greed. In a SL game I was playing I was close to my budget and Joe Mauer was looking for about 8 million for 4 years when I only had about 9 million in cap room. I then did some things and a week later the demand shot up to 13.5 million because I now had much more cap room. Maybe that is a little of what you are experiencing.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Commo_Soldier

On this note I did notice something interesting that may deal with loyalty and greed. In a SL game I was playing I was close to my budget and Joe Mauer was looking for about 8 million for 4 years when I only had about 9 million in cap room. I then did some things and a week later the demand shot up to 13.5 million because I now had much more cap room. Maybe that is a little of what you are experiencing.

That might be the case with Gonzalez, who signed what I thought was a pretty reasonable deal for what his stats were. But then, I was signing him out of his remaining arbitration years and a free agency year. If I wanted, I coulda kept paying him $2.2 M or whatever his arb figure was. I do know Gonzalez was signed to his extension when I was up against it with the cap.

Not so much with Alvarado, though. As I noted above, my payroll was about $54 M this past season, so not much room to work (some, but not a lot). Alvarado asked for (and got) $7 M per, which was probably about right, but would take up a good deal of my remaining cap room. So your example holds up with Gonzalez, but not with Alvarado. Maybe it relates to the greediness of the player. Of course, you mentioned greed/loyalty, so maybe that was a part of what you were hinting at anyway.

With Larsen, Miyahara and Rivera, it doesn't really apply. Those guys are on huge free agent deals I signed when they became free agents in years when I had tons of cap room.