1971 Off-season Thread (Pre-Draft file is up!)

[graygoose12]

So they now have two players, each taking up nearly 1/4 of the salary cap.

[graygoose12]

And $45 million in "incentives" opens up another can of worms.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

And $45 million in "incentives" opens up another can of worms.

Meh, the game 1) doesn't measure them as particularly important in this version of OOTP, as opposed to previous ones and 2) we're talking $7.5 million a year in incentives, and that's if he were to win the MVP and to have the requisite number of plate appearances. Times that by the six year deal and hence the gargantuan number.

Not a big deal. Just makes it sound like more ambitious of a contract. Which it is. Even without the incentives, it's still a bold contract.

[Young Drachma]

The start of free agency file is 19.22 MB and is up now.

[Young Drachma]

Talk About Your Game 7 Performances - OOTP Developments Forums

[graygoose12]

So how do bonuses count against the cap?

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Talk About Your Game 7 Performances - OOTP Developments Forums

Well if i ever made the damn thing

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

So how do bonuses count against the cap?

I don't believe they do count against the cap, but in my testing the Free agent puts virtually zero weight on them in deciding on an offer either. For instance a deal for 1 year 1 million dollars and 10 million of incentives vs a deal for 1 year, 2 million dollars and 0 incentives almost always seems to have the player go for the deal without incentives.

Perhaps there is some calculation inside the game where the player determines how realistic the expectation of them meeting that condition for the incentive or something though, but my experience is that it doesn't seem to do alot unless the player specifically asks for the incentive in the deal. Perhaps it is enough to put one offer over the edge when comparing two otherwise like offers though.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

So how do bonuses count against the cap?

They don't. They come out of your cash and are charged as player expenses. They're not that big a factor in this game, it's just bluster. I bet if you did a study, 95% of the time, players didn't even end up meeting the threshold for a bonus.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I don't believe they do count against the cap, but in my testing the Free agent puts virtually zero weight on them in deciding on an offer either. For instance a deal for 1 year 1 million dollars and 10 million of incentives vs a deal for 1 year, 2 million dollars and 0 incentives almost always seems to have the player go for the deal without incentives.

Perhaps there is some calculation inside the game where the player determines how realistic the expectation of them meeting that condition for the incentive or something though, but my experience is that it doesn't seem to do alot unless the player specifically asks for the incentive in the deal. Perhaps it is enough to put one offer over the edge when comparing two otherwise like offers though.

Yup. This changed because in past versions of the game, the incentives skewed things, so in beta it was changed to make it more "realistic" and so it's been diminished in its weight significantly.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by muns

Well if i ever made the damn thing

You were supposed to read my last post, which was a subtle -- ok, not so subtle -- plug for FOOL. Then you hijack the post and talk about how awesome FOOL is. Doh.

[graygoose12]

I understand that they don't count against the cap, but maybe they should.

I have not done any testing, and I have never really even tried using bonuses in solo play, but what is to prevent a team from offering very attainable bonuses in all extensions and fa offers, essentially increasing their cap.

Again I am not trying to cause problems, but more trying to prevent problems in the future.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

I understand that they don't count against the cap, but maybe they should.

I have not done any testing, and I have never really even tried using bonuses in solo play, but what is to prevent a team from offering very attainable bonuses in all extensions and fa offers, essentially increasing their cap.

Again I am not trying to cause problems, but more trying to prevent problems in the future.

I've done the testing in solo play in the past two versions as a beta and as a player, it won't happen. And even if it does, they 1) have to have the cash to pay it out and 2) players won't sign for incentives. They sign for real money and for the terms they outline.


So it's not worth codifying rules against it.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

I understand that they don't count against the cap, but maybe they should.

I have not done any testing, and I have never really even tried using bonuses in solo play, but what is to prevent a team from offering very attainable bonuses in all extensions and fa offers, essentially increasing their cap.

Again I am not trying to cause problems, but more trying to prevent problems in the future.

I guess the point I was making is that from testing I have the belief that these incentives usually have next to no effect on the contract offer at all, and don't really give any advantage to the team offering them (and in some cases in the wrong situation could be quite a disadvantage). So it doesn't seem like a big enough deal to me to really make any changes.

In the case of this Shortstop tonight, with the offer he gave, I bet you he could have given the same offer without any incentives and still have gotten him to sign. I rarely see any case in OOTP9 where the incentive convinced some Free agent to sign elsewhere.

[graygoose12]

I'm fine with that. Like I said I have done no testing at all, and totally trust your judgment.

I also don't want more rules. With our financials the way they are though, with everybody having a good amount of cash, and a salary cap so low, people may do tricky things to get around the cap.

But I will drop it.

[graygoose12]

One more question, how do a lot of these players have offers that they are favoring? I did not see these players in the FA pool. Did I miss a stage?? I know the SS was there last night.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

One more question, how do a lot of these players have offers that they are favoring? I did not see these players in the FA pool. Did I miss a stage?? I know the SS was there last night.

AI teams offered them contracts I am guessing?

[graygoose12]

Yea, forgot about that.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

AI teams offered them contracts I am guessing?

+1

They are alive and well, those AI buggers. You can usually tell whether they favor your offer based on 1) emails indicating they favor your offer or 2) being able to look on the contract offers page. But since, in this case, we sim faster than people are able to use the 2), then really...you won't know you were in the lead, since all of the deals come in around the same time, the player can evaluate them based on that, though the AI teams are still bidding when we're not, I might need to put the kibosh on that somehow. Like take the AI control away when we're simming to ensure they don't get an unfair advantage.

[ekcut]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

FARM SYSTEM REPORT

Minor League Systems
#    Team    Points    Top 5 Prospects
1st    Baltimore Terrapins    212    3B A. Summers (3rd), C M. Shepherd (14th), 2B G. Moore (16th), P S. Godbout (19th), C K. Haazens (42nd)
2nd    Ann Arbor Wolverines    195    C J. Ramos (10th), LF L. Davis (23rd), CF T. Mizutani (28th), LF P. Rosales (30th), LF K. Kawamura (35th)
3rd    New York Highlanders    154    3B T. Shimizu (18th), C R. Daniels (21st), 1B H. Miranda (29th), SS A. Reyes (32nd), 2B B. Evans (34th)
4th    Columbus Crusaders    142    CF T. Fournier (1st), CF C. Wagner (8th), P J. López (24th), LF J. Isla (26th), C H. Leyte (91st)
5th    Boston Settlers    141    P T. Tyler (6th), P V. González (12th), CF R. Lord (20th), 3B J. Saldaña (44th), RF J. Shoemaker (65th)
6th    Compton Brothers    139    P F. Flores (11th), CF C. Franco (25th), P L. Vázquez (33rd), CF I. Kobayashi (36th), P J. Colón (49th)
7th    Texas Copperheads    105    C L. Palmer (4th), CF N. Curtis (5th), SS S. Coffey (53rd), SS J. Miller (86th)
8th    Hartford Harpooners    90    P D. Adams (7th), 3B Y. Tsou (31st), 3B I. Costa (54th), 2B T. Jones (70th), P J. Franco (80th)
9th    Colorado Rancheros    78    P I. Beens (2nd), SS K. Shaffer (27th), P R. Mathews (94th), LF B. Skinner (96th)
10th    Brooklyn Brownstones    72    LF E. Cronie (13th), P F. García (22nd), P K. Pak (63rd), P W. McLellan (93rd), P J. Sullivan (98th)
11th    Valdosta Peanuts    63    SS M. Taylor (15th), RF P. Catron (47th), 2B F. Gutiérrez (72nd), P M. Rodríguez (76th), CF D. Beck (92nd)
12th    Quad City Thunderstorms    54    1B L. Mendoza (17th), RF J. Clark (39th), C D. Johnson (61st)
13th    El Paso Alligators    52    CF D. Thompson (9th), 2B J. Pérez (69th), P T. Mercado (74th)
14th    Rio Grande Roadrunners    47    RF F. Carrillo (37th), 2B R. Cruz (38th), LF D. O'Cleary (51st)
15th    Atlanta Firecrackers    39    P C. Macías (43rd), P P. Ortíz (48th), 2B G. O'Healy (73rd), SS D. Simms (89th)
16th    Toronto Atlantics    22    CF R. Logan (41st), P L. Alcock (88th), P M. Yang (90th)

Well...I guess that is a small victory to be proud of :/

When i started I had few stars and 0 prospects in the Top 100....now I have few stars and a ton of prospects in the Top 100. Baby steps...baby steps. Another long year in baltimore though....poor FA pool and only modest development on the ML level.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by muns

wow is what comes to mind

Holy cow you said it. Very good player. But not that good. Heck, no one currently in the league is that good.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

+1

They are alive and well, those AI buggers. You can usually tell whether they favor your offer based on 1) emails indicating they favor your offer or 2) being able to look on the contract offers page. But since, in this case, we sim faster than people are able to use the 2), then really...you won't know you were in the lead, since all of the deals come in around the same time, the player can evaluate them based on that, though the AI teams are still bidding when we're not, I might need to put the kibosh on that somehow. Like take the AI control away when we're simming to ensure they don't get an unfair advantage.

Probably need to let the AI teams have control on the days we have control and then turn it off. (like give them 1-3 days of control) at the start of the sim just like us and then turn it off as well. Otherwise they will be able to bid up offers they tail behind on mid-sim

[JimmyOOTP]

Just wondering, if i was to buy out a player by releasing him, would this salary go towards my cap? Like if a player has 3 years left and its 30m to release him will i take a 30m cap hit or just lose the money in my balance?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JimmyOOTP

Just wondering, if i was to buy out a player by releasing him, would this salary go towards my cap? Like if a player has 3 years left and its 30m to release him will i take a 30m cap hit or just lose the money in my balance?

You'd lose the money off of your cash balance. The reason you'd do this is precisely to save cap room.

[Commo_Soldier]

Originally Posted by JimmyOOTP

Just wondering, if i was to buy out a player by releasing him, would this salary go towards my cap? Like if a player has 3 years left and its 30m to release him will i take a 30m cap hit or just lose the money in my balance?

Cutting players frees up your cap space. You will be charged the remainder of their contract as player expenses and it will be paid out of pocket.

[Commo_Soldier]

I made the deal with Yamasuki basically because he is the type of player that I am fairly positive will flourish in my ball park and there were not really any other FA's I wanted to sign. I think in the long run this deal will work out extremly well for the brownstones.

As for the insentives I think players should be justly awarded for their on-field performance if they meet certain expectations and I am not the only one who has used them. That said how would we ever be able to implement them against the cap since they may or may not even reach the incentive?

[Young Drachma]

That said how would we ever be able to implement them against the cap since they may or may not even reach the incentive?

It won't happen. It's not enough of an issue to legislate against and it doesn't affect where players sign unless it's really close and even still, they are a legit way to entice a player to sign with you. So I'm all for them.

[Young Drachma]

And away we go....free agency is upon us! Let's see what Santa FOOL has brought in.

[Young Drachma]

Two notable extensions to mention, Compton inked reliever Ray Howe to a seven year extension worth $37 million and 1B Mel Brooks to a seven year extension worth $48.7 million. Then two days later, Jorge Moya signed a seven year extension worth $47.7 million, meaning those guys will either have long careers in Compton or he'll be trading or releasing them somewhere before those deals end.

[Young Drachma]

Carlos Aguilar (SEA) signed a four-year deal worth $14.1 million with Atlanta
Ken Connolly (VAL) signed a two-year deal worth $6 million with Toronto
Roger Mathews (COL) signed a two-year deal worth $1.8 million with Compton
Orlando Diaz (TOR) signed a 2 year deal worth $5 million with Hartford

[Young Drachma]

RF Clarence Gilliam (TEX) signed a 6-year deal worth $89.4 million with Colorado

[Young Drachma]

Cris Segura (VAL) signed a 4-year deal worth $36.9 million with New York
Christian Larsen (COL) signed a 5-year deal worth $43.3 million with Quad City

[graygoose12]

Wow, Gilliam got paid big money.

Without looking at the details, nearly as much as Yamazaki.

[Young Drachma]

Preparing the file now. Dated December 2, 1970. Draft list gets revealed tomorrow night, along with simming to the start of the pre-season.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by graygoose12

Wow, Gilliam got paid big money.

Yeah, what I can't tell if that was a preemptive offer to ensure they stay in contention, a price to drive the price up for him or what it was. But clearly, he wanted him. So that'll be interesting to see how that plays out in their overall strategy. A bold move, to be sure for Colorado.

It's been a relatively quiet year in the RL short of what Hartford is doing with their rebuilding. The champs of the RL for two years in a row are quietly tinkering about over there, Boston is lurking in the shadows and Ann Arbor just does what they do up there...lock and reload.

Hard to say who the favorite is.

[Young Drachma]

File is bigger than I intended, because I didn't turn off the box scores, etc., so it's loading all of that junk again and so it's a 50MB file. My bad. We'll wait and I'll let you know when it's online.

[Cringer]

And Rio Grande in the CL is sitting tight with everyone from last year locked up. The only changes will be needing to bring up a MR, and maybe a new OF to sit on the bench as the young guy Mark Nelson needs to go back to AAA where he will hopefully get over the hump and be able to do better in the majors after that.

[Alan T]

Valdosta for the most part sat put for two years in a row and I would have been happy to do so again, but the cap finally bit me in the butt. Enough years of my buying time with salary finally meant I had to pay the reaper this year.

I lost my second best hitter from last year (at a difficult spot to get a quality hitter) in Segura. I lost my 1B from last year and best overall pinch hitter in Connolly. And I felt forced to trade the ace of my staff in Prado as I could not find any other deal to make salary cap space. I had a few people offer to take a very good relief pitcher from me if I threw in prospects, but I turned all of those down.

Oneil, whom we got back for Prado + prospects is no slouch, but he won't carry my staff like Prado was able to. The new look Peanuts will have a youngster playing catcher and 1B this year as well. The good news for this deal for Valdosta is the trade means no longer having to dismantle the bullpen which was one of the better ones in the league the past few years.

[Young Drachma]

File is up!

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Cringer

And Rio Grande in the CL is sitting tight with everyone from last year locked up. The only changes will be needing to bring up a MR, and maybe a new OF to sit on the bench as the young guy Mark Nelson needs to go back to AAA where he will hopefully get over the hump and be able to do better in the majors after that.

I jinxed myself as I end up making a trade a short time later. Nice.

Looks like I will have at least one new SP, and my open MR slot is now filled. A shake up at 3B is a surprise to the fans as well with the trade for 31 year old Warren Lewis from Hartford. We in Rio Grande do not fear the over 30 guys.

Also, I may end up bringing up not just one, but 2 youngsters to fill SP roles. I had forgotten I was looking into finally moving on from Billy Martin from being our #5 guy. He finally had a bad enough year last season to make me think about this.

[Young Drachma]

I think we're finally reaching a point where it's okay to be over 30 in FOOL. So long as you're a star. lol

[JimmyOOTP]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Two notable extensions to mention, Compton inked reliever Ray Howe to a seven year extension worth $37 million and 1B Mel Brooks to a seven year extension worth $48.7 million. Then two days later, Jorge Moya signed a seven year extension worth $47.7 million, meaning those guys will either have long careers in Compton or he'll be trading or releasing them somewhere before those deals end.

Compton is very please to have sign 3 great players to the club for the next 7 years. All 3 players have shown the desire to win and have come at a price we just couldn't refuse. With these signings and our minor league system, we believe we will now be competitors for years to come.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think we're finally reaching a point where it's okay to be over 30 in FOOL. So long as you're a star. lol

I've had pretty much multiple 30+ year olds for years and years!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I've had pretty much multiple 30+ year olds for years and years!

And it's paid off. So maybe you're teaching us something...

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

And it's paid off. So maybe you're teaching us something...

isnt that the truth

[Young Drachma]

All I know is, when I need to have a fire sale, I'm contracting duties to muns. He does not mess around. When he says he's having a fire sale, he means it. And he gets good value on the buck.

[Young Drachma]

Processing the trades that happened and I'll get up a new file. People who didn't make deals don't have to download it, as the one you have will work fine for you. But for those who did, you'll want to. I'll let you know when that's all done.

[Alan T]

I can't wait to see what Hartford's fan interest is in the new file!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Alan T

I can't wait to see what Hartford's fan interest is in the new file!

82

[muns]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

82

wow that wasnt as bad as I thought it was gonna be.... Still hurts though