Alright boyz, here we go!!! The NHL EHM 2005 Discussion

[riz]

Originally Posted by Icy

Will be a downloadable version released the same day? if so, please, tell me elicense will handle it, not the other company you used past year

We've got Grant at the office looking into various systems to see which one we think offers the best service to the customer and makes financial sense for us.

EDIT: and yes, it should be out around the same day.

[JeffR]

Some elaboration on the North American release/download option situation, from SI's Miles Davidson over on their forums: (I'm assuming Riz has fallen asleep, or he'd have posted it already. )

Right. EHM & North America/Canada.

Sega US have a new "no.1" and "no.2" who started a few months ago. The new "no.1" is also the boss of Sega Europe, and therefore the guy who signed us. The new "no.2", Simon, is someone that we know, and is very much behind Sports Interactive and our games, and is as determined as we are to "crack" America.

The issue that we have in the America's (and whilst I know it's an insult to some, by that I mean the whole market, so that includes North America, Canada, and some areas of Central and Southern America) is that our games, and the whole genre that we are involved with, is very much unproven in teh America's. Because of that, we are in a "chicken and egg" situation, in that some major retailer want the titles to have good sales behind them before they stock them, but without said retailers behind the titles, we aren't going to be able to get the sales that they need for them to stock them!

Sega US are working hard to try and sort out the situation, and there is lots of stuff that I can't talk about at the moment that we're discussing with Sega US on how to improve everything.

There are currently no firm plans in place. I'll be out in the US (as will Riz, Duffy & Phillip (aka Profiled)) in just over a week, and I'll be having lots of meetings with Sega US when I am over there to try and put a full plan together.

At the moment, my ideal plan (and this is just a plan - I have no idea if it is going to happen or not) is to release NHL:EHM as a digitial download for the America's market around the same date that the game will be out in Europe. Then, in September, we would release a boxed copy of the game in the America's which would have updated data & league rules through certain retailers (likely to be indies and certain chains), and then have a digital download version at a very cheap price for those who have already purchased the NHL:EHM2005 as a digi download. This update would also be made available for European's who have bought the game at the same cheap price.

The game would then be released each September, to tie in with the start of the America's Hockey season.

As I said, this is currently my ideal plan. It is far from set in stone and, whilst I'm sorry about this, the America's situation is going to be very last minute.

Whilst it's frustrating for you guys, I hope you can understand that it's even more frustrating for us! The America's members of the SI community are VERY VERY VERY important to us - you are the guys who are going to help prove to retail that there is a market for our games out there. And we will do everything to ensure that you get our games when you want, without any hassles. But it IS going to take time. We will keep you as informed as we possibly can and hope that you bear with us throughout - it will be worth it in the end, I promise...

I'm not a humble programmer like Riz, but a humble MD/CEO I would love to explain all the delicate details of the computer games business world, but I hope you understand that there are some things that I can't talk about, as it can effect business relationships in a serious way. But both SI and Sega are very serious about the America's and we are doing everything we can to sort out the situation. Please be patient, and you will be rewarded.

[EagleFan]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Lucky for you that they're modeling this season, considering that the Boardwalk Bullies will be in Stockton, California, next year.

Yeah, AC just doesn't have the fan base to support an off-season sport.

[MizzouRah]

I'll say this again. The demo has been like hockey crack. I'm still getting used to the interface and just basically messing around and learning things, but I'm really impressed on how much fun this demo has been for me.

Hopefully by May 27th, I will have learned some of the deeper workings of hockey so I can start a dynasty thread with the Blues. I'm determined to get a Stanley Cup here in St. Louis. I love the 2d portion of the program.. very exciting to watch my players skate around.

I'm really looking forward to this game.. I'm hoping this will really get my dynasty juices flowing once again. Ohhh Baby!


Todd

[sabotai]

Can't wait to get my Moose Jaw dynasty up and running again (from scratch). It's not May6th where I am....21 days to go.

[ice4277]

That's excellent news about the AHL and ECHL. Being able to take the Toledo Storm to the ECHL title is probably going to be enough to make this a must-buy for me.

[MizzouRah]

Ok, now that the Gold demo is out.

Can we start a serious career? Meaning, if I start a career now, when the game is released, can we contimue on? ..and what's the difference from starting a demo quick start and starting from scratch when the full version is released?

..and what is the difference is the fast starts? is NHL much different than NHL&AHL&ECHL? I just want the full NHL boat with minors and foreign teams, all of it. I guess I'm kind of lost already.. hahaha!!

Thanks,

Todd

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Ok, now that the Gold demo is out.

Can we start a serious career? Meaning, if I start a career now, when the game is released, can we contimue on? ..and what's the difference from starting a demo quick start and starting from scratch when the full version is released?

..and what is the difference is the fast starts? is NHL much different than NHL&AHL&ECHL? I just want the full NHL boat with minors and foreign teams, all of it. I guess I'm kind of lost already.. hahaha!!

Thanks,

Todd

A fast start, or quickstart, is a game that was created with only some specific leagues. At least that's what I remeber them to be with CM/FM. If you want the NHL with its minor leagues, and you want to start with the demo and continue afterward, then you're better off with the NHL&AHL&ECHL fast start. But this means you won't be allowed to manage teams in Europe if you wanted to at some point.

I also don't know what database size was used to create these fast starts. This could have an impact on your game when you get many seasons in the future...

FM

[MizzouRah]

Thanks FM, that's what I did. If I have to restart, no biggie I guess. I just find my players in this game VERY attachable. I really need to take a break though.


Todd

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Ok, now that the Gold demo is out.

Can we start a serious career? Meaning, if I start a career now, when the game is released, can we contimue on? ..and what's the difference from starting a demo quick start and starting from scratch when the full version is released?

..and what is the difference is the fast starts? is NHL much different than NHL&AHL&ECHL? I just want the full NHL boat with minors and foreign teams, all of it. I guess I'm kind of lost already.. hahaha!!

Thanks,

Todd

You can continue your Gold Demo career in the final game, however as has been indicated elsewhere you don't have the benefit of the 'full' database with the demo .... your call entirely ...

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

You can continue your Gold Demo career in the final game, however as has been indicated elsewhere you don't have the benefit of the 'full' database with the demo .... your call entirely ...

That's what I thought.. although I think with the NHL and minor leagues.. most if not all of what I want is right there.

May 27th can't get here soon enough.


Todd

[TroyF]

Just for kicks I took over the Avs. Resigned Forsberg. Second exhibition game he tears his ACL. Out for four months.

Good to see it has some realism.

[Bee]

Two Questions:

1. In the full version, what will be the lowest league level you can control in the US?

2. Is there a guide around someplace (similar to Marc's for CM)? If not, will there be one?
Edit: My interest in the guide would be based around becoming familiar with different desired skills for different positions. Which skills are really key for different styles of play for example.

[jbmagic]

Marc Vaughan and Riz

there some people who think you going to charge the customers for roster updates? is this true? is this same for FM 2006? and ootp 7?

here the discussion
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...59#post1194259

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

Marc Vaughan and Riz

there some people who think you going to charge the customers for roster updates? is this true? is this same for FM 2006? and ootp 7?

here the discussion
http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...59#post1194259

If it isn't true they really need to re-word this part of the PR:

At the moment, my ideal plan (and this is just a plan - I have no idea if it is going to happen or not) is to release NHL:EHM as a digitial download for the America's market around the same date that the game will be out in Europe. Then, in September, we would release a boxed copy of the game in the America's which would have updated data & league rules through certain retailers (likely to be indies and certain chains), and then have a digital download version at a very cheap price for those who have already purchased the NHL:EHM2005 as a digi download. This update would also be made available for European's who have bought the game at the same cheap price.

[Marc Vaughan]

No people won't be charged for 'roster updates' (if you mean downloading a data update or a patch) and won't be considering doing this for our other games either.

The America release of EHM will contain updated rules and other code changes as well as a roster update, its being released considerably after the release of the European game so is really an EHM2.25 or something silly (basically if we've done improvements it doesn't make sense not to include them if we're doing a new game release in America) - hence that version will be charged for (at a lesser amount) if people who have the digital version of EHM2 want to upgrade.

This has basically come about because of the delay in the American release, hopefully for the year after we can sync all releases to the same timeline (as we do with our football game) and avoid this problem.

Hope this helps,

Marc

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Bee

Two Questions:

1. In the full version, what will be the lowest league level you can control in the US?

2. Is there a guide around someplace (similar to Marc's for CM)? If not, will there be one?
Edit: My interest in the guide would be based around becoming familiar with different desired skills for different positions. Which skills are really key for different styles of play for example.

There is a set of walkthrough's here: http://www.sortitoutsi.net/forums/in...p?showforum=45

Which is now up to part 3. Some very good info in these posts!!

In fact, if you look around.. there are some nice logos, ice rinks with logos, facepacks, etc.. for the demo.


Todd

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

The America release of EHM will contain updated rules and other code changes as well as a roster update, its being released considerably after the release of the European game so is really an EHM2.25 or something silly (basically if we've done improvements it doesn't make sense not to include them if we're doing a new game release in America) - hence that version will be charged for (at a lesser amount) if people who have the digital version of EHM2 want to upgrade.

I'm really slow, cause I'm still a bit confused about this... What exactly will the Europeans and Downloaders be paying for, since I'm assuming they'll be able to download the regular patches for free?

[Sidhe]

The America release of EHM will contain updated rules and other code changes

That's what you are paying for, not the roster updates.

[Marc Vaughan]

PS> If you haven't got it already then amazon.co.uk (and can get delivery to you) is charging a whopping £8.96 for the original version of EHM now that the new ones about to come out ...

(I'm afraid amazon.com don't have it discounted in the same manner, sorry)

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

PS> If you haven't got it already then amazon.co.uk (and can get delivery to you) is charging a whopping £8.96 for the original version of EHM now that the new ones about to come out ...

(I'm afraid amazon.com don't have it discounted in the same manner, sorry)

why would anyone want the old version, when the new one is around the corner and its much better.

[jbmagic]

Marc

thanks

i am also confused.

for us americans living in the states

if i download the new EHM2 when it comes out in may release day, will i get the free updates, patch, roster update for free in the future? if it a reduced price for future upgrade if you got the download EHM 2, then i guess it wont make sense to get it. why be charge for a reduced price?

but why european can download the new release when it comes out and get free upgrades, patches, roster updates in the future?

If so i will wait for the american release to come out in the united states and buy EHM2 here. i just hope it comes to the stores. it was so hard to find it at best Buy, circuit city, fry's, etc last year.

thanks

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

No people won't be charged for 'roster updates' (if you mean downloading a data update or a patch) and won't be considering doing this for our other games either.

The America release of EHM will contain updated rules and other code changes as well as a roster update, its being released considerably after the release of the European game so is really an EHM2.25 or something silly (basically if we've done improvements it doesn't make sense not to include them if we're doing a new game release in America) - hence that version will be charged for (at a lesser amount) if people who have the digital version of EHM2 want to upgrade.

This has basically come about because of the delay in the American release, hopefully for the year after we can sync all releases to the same timeline (as we do with our football game) and avoid this problem.

Hope this helps,

Marc

I'm sorry Marc but still don't underestand it, so if me being Spanish, buy the downloadable version (lt's say 2.0), when later you will release (let's say 2.25) for the USA, do i need to pay again for the upgrade? it hasn't ever be the case and i think it would be a big mistake from SI to charge for that update. Also what about after (let's say 2.25) if we find bugs and you fix them, who will pay for that update as wont' be the same for usa and euro... i think you shouldn't charge again us europeans for the game update when it's released in USA but to let us upgrade for free for every 2.xxx patch as you have always done it. I
'm sorry as maybe it's me who doesn't underestand this.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Marc Vaughan

The America release of EHM will contain updated rules and other code changes as well as a roster update

Just to clarify that a bit so people don't think that means SI would charge for shuffling a few players around and fixing some bugs:

"Updated rules" doesn't just mean a couple of leagues switching to no-touch icing - it'd encompass something like a new NHL CBA, if one is reached during the summer. That'll obviously require some significant code changes, particularly if it involves, as looks likely, some sort of tortured compromise with a luxury tax and a salary floor/ceiling tied to league revenues. Other leagues - the British ones come to mind - will also be undergoing some significant changes for next year that would have to be reflected.

"Roster update" wouldn't be just moving players from one team to another. It'd include, among other things, new teams, affiliation changes, updated statistics, additional players, rerating of existing players, and updating of the start dates to the 2005-06 season. The research team wouldn't be doing that for free, either, so that's going to cost SI some money to do.

I've also suggested some other things to Riz and Marc Duffy that could be included so people get plenty of value for their upgrade money.

Disclaimer: I don't speak for SI, can't promise anything officially, none of this is final yet, etc., etc. But if I thought the guys were trying to pull something shady, I wouldn't be helping them with it.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Just to clarify that a bit so people don't think that means SI would charge for shuffling a few players around and fixing some bugs:

"Updated rules" doesn't just mean a couple of leagues switching to no-touch icing - it'd encompass something like a new NHL CBA, if one is reached during the summer. That'll obviously require some significant code changes, particularly if it involves, as looks likely, some sort of tortured compromise with a luxury tax and a salary floor/ceiling tied to league revenues. Other leagues - the British ones come to mind - will also be undergoing some significant changes for next year that would have to be reflected.

"Roster update" wouldn't be just moving players from one team to another. It'd include, among other things, new teams, affiliation changes, updated statistics, additional players, rerating of existing players, and updating of the start dates to the 2005-06 season. The research team wouldn't be doing that for free, either, so that's going to cost SI some money to do.

I've also suggested some other things to Riz and Marc Duffy that could be included so people get plenty of value for their upgrade money.

Disclaimer: I don't speak for SI, can't promise anything officially, none of this is final yet, etc., etc. But if I thought the guys were trying to pull something shady, I wouldn't be helping them with it.

I guess the logical question is whether this EHM 2.25 including all these "Updated Rules" and "Roster Updates" and the like will be available to European customers who bought the initial downloadable or box version (and US customers who bought the initial download version) via downloadable patches? Or will the only way to get these "updates" be by buying the US EHM 2.25 game?

I think that's the real question.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I guess the logical question is whether this EHM 2.25 including all these "Updated Rules" and "Roster Updates" and the like will be available to European customers who bought the initial downloadable or box version (and US customers who bought the initial download version) via downloadable patches? Or will the only way to get these "updates" be by buying the US EHM 2.25 game?

The idea, as Miles set it out, would be to have the big update available to European and download customers for a nominal price.

And there'll be bug-fixing patches between the release version of the game and that "2.25" update. No one is going to have to pay for a critical bug, if there are any, to be fixed.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I guess the logical question is whether this EHM 2.25 including all these "Updated Rules" and "Roster Updates" and the like will be available to European customers who bought the initial downloadable or box version (and US customers who bought the initial download version) via downloadable patches? Or will the only way to get these "updates" be by buying the US EHM 2.25 game?

I think that's the real question.

if you download it, and there going to charge for a reduce price for updates rule and roster update. then i am not sure if i will purchase the game by downloading it.

i just wait for it to hit the US stores. and i hope after i purchase the game in the US store, that any future patches, update roster and update rules, we dont get charge for a reduced price to download it.

it makes no sense for them to charge customers for a reduced price for updates rule, patches, roster updates, etc.

[sabotai]

My guess (just a guess) would be that you would be paying a small price to have a hard copy (a CD) of the game in its most recent form (A CD that has version 2.25 (or whatever) on it).

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by JeffR

The idea, as Miles set it out, would be to have the big update available to European and download customers for a nominal price.

And there'll be bug-fixing patches between the release version of the game and that "2.25" update. No one is going to have to pay for a critical bug, if there are any, to be fixed.

Thanks, Jeff. Sounds reasonable enough.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by JeffR

The idea, as Miles set it out, would be to have the big update available to European and download customers for a nominal price.

And there'll be bug-fixing patches between the release version of the game and that "2.25" update. No one is going to have to pay for a critical bug, if there are any, to be fixed.

so if you want to save money, best to wait and get the US version that hits the store later on.

compare to paying and getting the download version and then pay again at a reduce price to get the 2.25 update.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

so if you want to save money, best to wait and get the US version that hits the store later on.

compare to paying and getting the download version and then pay again at a reduce price to get the 2.25 update.

I reckon you'd save a little bit of money, but you'd have to wait until September or so to play the game. I guess, like all games really, you just have to figure out whether you feel like paying extra to play now or waiting a while for the "price to go down" as it were.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

so if you want to save money, best to wait and get the US version that hits the store later on.

compare to paying and getting the download version and then pay again at a reduce price to get the 2.25 update.

I've got no say at all in it, but if it was me making the pricing decision I'd set the upgrade price to be comparable to the difference between whatever the download version costs and the suggested retail price of the North American release.

It's definitely not as if they're going to charge another thirty bucks for the upgrade - the phrase Miles used was "very cheap", which to me implies a small fraction of the price of the complete game.

[Joe Canadian]

I'd really like to know what this "nominal price" will be so that I can make a better judgement about what to do. If it's going to be like $10-$20 then fine I'll get the downloadable version and pay for the update... but if it's going to be more than that I'll probably wait.

[riz]

Okay, its a bit late here and I'm tired so I won't go into a too long of a post, plus I'm just a humble developer and know not too much about the fine details of the publishing plans and business models... But to keep it simple:

You won't be paying anything for normal patches as they appear after the release. Everything is like before and we continue to support the game post-release as per usual free of charge. So I'm not sure where this idea came from ?

What Miles is talking about is that in case we don't get the boxed version of NHL EHM 2005 (the version based on 2004/05 season and released in Europe this month) into retail in NA at the same time as Europe, then it will still be available as a digital download version. Then, we'd continue supporting the current version over the summer as usual with above mentioned free patches made available as deemed necessary. But also, aside from just supporting the 2004/05 version, we'd work with our research team over the summer months to update the game and the database based on the upcoming 2005/06 season rules/structures and rosters as well as naturally making the new game start from the new season and maybe chipping in with a few new features as well. So in a way it would be a "season update" in relation to the current NHL EHM 2005 we have just completed. For North American retail, it would be the next full boxed version of NHL EHM since the first one, hence a normal price tag. For digital download customers, it would just be a cheap season update and the same for owners of the european boxed version. Now as Miles said, these are only plans and nothing has been set in stone about when the NA release will happen yet. I believe there will be some meetings about this during E3 next week so we'll know more about this after that.

And again, after this release the game would enjoy the usual post-release support with patches/updates free of charge as per norm.

As for this bit:

and i hope after i purchase the game in the US store, that any future patches, update roster and update rules, we dont get charge for a reduced price to download it.

Patches are always free as per usual. Roster updates are a possibility during the season featured in the game, but I cannot make any promises on those. But updating league rules for free ? As nice and exciting as it sounds to a text-sim player to have a game where you'd just buy it once and get league rules and rosters updated every new season for free, it just ain't going to happen with a commercial game. The development is not just about coding new features into the game but also maintaining and updating all the league rules. It may be different when a game features just one league like the NHL and the rules stay 99% the same for most of the time from season to season. But just look at even leagues like the AHL or ECHL not to mention a host of European leagues. The league formats and rules change almost yearly and changing them is in most cases not just a one-line change but might require new code and as usual some extensive testing as well. And it all takes time to do and time costs money as they say. So updating all the leagues in the game to the new season as well as doing the additional research to update the database means spending time and money on development. Which in turn means that providing an update like that would have to have a small price tag on it to cover the costs. Just because a game goes out of sync with real life league rules after a certain time when the next real life season starts, does not mean it then somehow becomes a bug that the game has different rules. And it certainly does not mean that the developers then need to fix this "bug" by updating the game with the new league rules and basically giving out a free new version of the game.

Hope this clears it up a bit as well

[jbmagic]

Riz

the gold demo is great.is there a manaul to download. i very new to EHM and SI games, so i been mainly lost, just clicking on a lot of things.

i hope when final release is out, there a very detailed manual out. it will be very helpful for us newbies.

thanks

[Marc Vaughan]

There will be a very good (imho) manual distributed with the game - but we haven't distributed one with the demo I'm afraid.

[Coder]

Hmm.. wouldn't the most reasonable thing (to loyal customers) be to release the 2.25 as a downloadable patch in case you've already bought the game, while the version in the stores in the US will be 2.25 "on disc"..

It feels a bit weird to buy version 2.0 in may, and then have to pay for the upgrade (no matter how small a fee) in September/October.

Edit: read through Riz post more thoroughly.. well I would probably consider not buying version 2.0 and wait for 2.25 rather than pay lets say, €40 for 2.0 then $19.95 (or whatever) for the upgrade, instead of "just" €40 for a game a few months later.

[jbmagic]

Riz

viewing the game part is great. i have it on very slow for commentary and clock. and it seems the text is a little too fast still

any way you guys can make it more slower when you have it set very low when final release comes.

thanks

[Marc Vaughan]

Originally Posted by Coder

Hmm.. wouldn't the most reasonable thing (to loyal customers) be to release the 2.25 as a downloadable patch in case you've already bought the game, while the version in the stores in the US will be 2.25 "on disc"..

Our policy has always been to support our games to the best of our abilities and to release any patches etc. free of charge.

Any seasonal updates (ie. changes in start season) have always been a new version and thus charged for.

The American release will update the start year and incorporate any rule changes which have happened, contain a data update and other improvements - as such we will be charging a reduced amount for people who've already purchased the European release version via. digital download.

The reason for this happening as a 'once off' is that the American and European version releases are 'out of sync' and we don't simply want to release an 'out of date' game when its released in America.

This sync problem is something we'll be rectifying for future years releases.

The reason that a price hasn't been released for the 'upgrade' is simply that the bods in business suits haven't thrashed that side of things out - I'd expect it to be a fairly low price and obviously when it is finalised we'll let everyone know.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Just received the following e-mail from Gameplay:

Dear Honolulu_Blue,

We are pleased to inform you that your order for has been dispatched by our team in Leeds.

Thank you very much for ordering from us here at gameplay, you should receive your package in None. The release date for Eastside Hockey Manager 2005 is 27/05/2005.

This dispatch contains the following:

Eastside Hockey Manager 2005


Good times!

[condors]

i want a dynasty! at least until the download is ready

[Johnny93g]

wont be picking it up....the whole pay twice thing, rubbed me the wrong way...havent even tried the demo.......just not really impressed with what ive read i guess

[riz]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

wont be picking it up....the whole pay twice thing, rubbed me the wrong way...havent even tried the demo.......just not really impressed with what ive read i guess

That's a shame

Especially since there has never been anything coming from us indicating that someone would have to pay twice for the same game. As a fairly normal PC/Mac game, NHL EHM 2005 is priced in european retail pretty much like any other title, usually even a bit cheaper. Digital download is in the plans and we are aiming to get the system finished within a week or two of the european retail release so we can have the game available for purchase online. As for the NA retail release, it will be later in the year with prices etc. most likely in line with the european style, ie. a bit cheaper than your average PC game. So I'm not sure where this big issue of somehow having to pay twice actually comes from.

And I'd encourage you to try the demo to give it a whirl rather than listening to rumors and rantings on messageboards about issues that are not even connected to the actual gameplay and content of the game

Then on to some brighter news, the official ECHL website has also run a story of the new game with some nice comments from the bigshots over at ECHL and PHPA:

http://www.echl.com/cgi-bin/mpublic....&cat=1&id=4765

Enjoy

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

So far from what I've seen of the demo, this game is an improvement over EHM.

I also might have agreed with your stand on "charging twice", but only if you think of the 2.25 version as a patch. In reality, it's an expansion, which I would expect to pay for.

Will I wait? Probably, but not because of the expansion. It's because I like having a CD in case my computer goes kaput.

That's why I'm ordering it from gameplay. Get it early and get a CD!

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Johnny93g

wont be picking it up....the whole pay twice thing, rubbed me the wrong way...havent even tried the demo.......just not really impressed with what ive read i guess

So far from what I've seen of the demo, this game is an improvement over EHM.

I also might have agreed with your stand on "charging twice", but only if you think of the 2.25 version as a patch. In reality, it's an expansion, which I would expect to pay for.

Will I wait? Probably, but not because of the expansion. It's because I like having a CD in case my computer goes kaput.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by riz

So I'm not sure where this big issue of somehow having to pay twice actually comes from.

Come on, riz. You know what he's talking about.

EDIT: And I'm anxiously awaiting the download option for the game.

[Karim]

I'm with HB. Just got my shipping confirmation. I want it on CD and I want it so I can play over the summer.

[Johnny93g]

I would try the demo, but i really have no interest in trying it.....Right now, I dont really care if it is an improvement.....I dont own that many games though, and for the most part, if i buy a game one year, i probably wont buy the next version of it......I also felt I made a mistake buying last years version....It was ok, but it got too easy, to quickly...what I mean buy that is playing with the leafs, i could pretty much get any player via free agency i wanted, and eventually, had too much damn talent....when that happens, its not fun for me.......im also not in the mood to pay 50 bucks canadian for any computer game(probably why i dont have many)....expansion or not.....(I would not pay for an expansion of any game)

At one point, ya, i may decided i want to take a look at it.....I know im a hockey guy, and im exactly the type of customer SI needs and wants to buy the game in north america, but nothing makes me want to even try it at this point......

To be honest, the original EHM still is more fun then last years version

[Bee]

Well, I'll be buying the download version if it's available on Friday. I'm not a hockey fan like Johnny93g is, but I actually did try the demo and found it to be loads of fun. Of course, I probably have spent more money on games in the last 2 weeks than Johnny did in the last 2 years from the sounds of it.

riz,

Great job and I hope you become a rich man from the release (but not too rich so we get a version next year! )

B

[General Mike]

Sorry guys. I will have to wait until September and a new computer to buy your game.