Katrina hits Category 5.

[Antmeister]

Eaglesfan27, I am glad to hear you are safe. Terpkristin it is always good to know that you can now relax knowing your brother is safe and Pumpy Tudors, your timing to leave is uncanny. I give all you guys the best wishes and I hope things turn out well regardless of how it seems to look for you now, because you guys are alive and safe.

[GoldenEagle]

The wind is blowing pretty good here now. I would estmaite it at about 30 MPH with guts up to 40 MPH. We have some rain. The good news is that it is suppose to push east of here.

[HomerJSimpson]

Well, it is hitting home now. Tornado warning within 2 miles of my mother-in-laws house in Conyers, Ga.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Shep Smith is walking around the French Quarter with video - looks like they were very lucky. No flooding, looks like only damage were windows and shutters, no outward appearance of structural damage.

[Wolfpack]

I've seen things elsewhere that indicates other parts of NO weren't as lucky as the Quarter, particularly the more eastern portions of the city. Mayor has mentioned "bodies in the water". Nothing on how many, though. They're also confirming that this was the second coming of Camille over in Mississippi. While it could have been a lot worse (if Katrina had been just a hair west of actual), clearly, it's going to be bad enough as it is.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

I really hope those "bodies in the water" are from the graveyards.

[Wolfpack]

This is the source of that information, from the website of a TV station down in NO:

People trapped on roofs, bodies in water

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I dont think well know the extent of the damage until tuesday if not wednesdday at the earliest. Brace yourselves for the other potental hurrricanes in the mid atlantque.

[HomerJSimpson]

CNN reporter just on was quite upset by what she saw in the area were there is severe flooding. She said there was bodies in the water, and I-10 is completely under water.

[SackAttack]

Am I the only one who thinks that state and federal aid should be denied to the dumbasses who didn't evacuate when they were told to?

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Am I the only one who thinks that state and federal aid should be denied to the dumbasses who didn't evacuate when they were told to?

I certainly hope so.

[stevew]

Why should everyone be forced to pay higher insurance premiums cause people want to live 10 feet under sea level on the coast? Their shit gets wrecked, then they get it all replaced, and can rebuild. Thats the thing that always pisses me off.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Am I the only one who thinks that state and federal aid should be denied to the dumbasses who didn't evacuate when they were told to?

some people couldnt evacuate, they didnt have a car, were too poor to afford hotel rooms, etc.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I certainly hope so.

Look, I understand if there are people physically or medically unable to get the hell out when a storm like this is looming. They aren't dumbasses.

I'm talking about dumbasses, able-bodied individuals who have seen this thing coming for a week, done fuck-all about it, and then sit on their roof, call emergency services, and go "Send somebody to pick me up. I want to live!"

Yes, that's an actual quote.

If you're a dumbass, you should be denied aid. Why should the rest of the nation subsidize your idiocy?

Those who were physically or medically unable to leave, the ones trapped through no fault of their own, that's an entirely different matter.

I would have thought that it would be evident from my use of the word 'dumbasses' that I'm talking about people who are there because of a lack of common sense, but apparently I have to spell it out.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by stevew

some people couldnt evacuate, they didnt have a car, were too poor to afford hotel rooms, etc.

I'm not talking about those people. I understand there are innocents in every disaster scenario, and I'm not proposing denying them aid.

I'm talking about an entirely different class of people.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by stevew

Why should everyone be forced to pay higher insurance premiums cause people want to live 10 feet under sea level on the coast? Their shit gets wrecked, then they get it all replaced, and can rebuild. Thats the thing that always pisses me off.

That's not completely true--my parents live on a bayfront and they are required to hold additional flood insurance not required of other homeowners...

[Klinglerware]

Dola,

I don't think regular homeowners insurance covers flooding...

[Schmidty]

Watching FOX News right now, and I'm getting sick to my stomache. I'm definitely a bit more conservative than I am liberal, but the more I see the conservative view-point of modern times, the more that line is thinning for me.

They are talking about the same things that Stevew is - Should "we" be forced to help these people that "choose" to live in a dangerous area? That is an absolute bullshit question. I highly doubt that the children that live in these areas "choose" to live there, and I also have a feeling that many poor people don't choose to live there either. Regardless of that, I find it nauseating that conservatives, the so-called "moral-majority" (and religious majority) would even raise this question. Especially while so much damage and pain isn't even a day old. For those that claim allegiance to Christ, I ask you this question: Would Jesus allow people to suffer without lending aid in this situation?

I'm sure I'll get blasted, but I don't care. I've heard both sides of the issue, and I see both points, but I know which side my dollar and my heart goes toward.

[Buccaneer]

Schmidty, the dollar should follow where the heart (and spirit) leads.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Schmidty, the dollar should follow where the heart (and spirit) leads.

I agree, it's just that I'm so angry and sad to see the "side" which I tend to agree with be so fucking heartless, hypocritical and stupid.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Watching FOX News right now, and I'm getting sick to my stomache. I'm definitely a bit more conservative than I am liberal, but the more I see the conservative view-point of modern times, the more that line is thinning for me.

They are talking about the same things that Stevew is - Should "we" be forced to help these people that "choose" to live in a dangerous area? That is an absolute bullshit question. I highly doubt that the children that live in these areas "choose" to live there, and I also have a feeling that many poor people don't choose to live there either. Regardless of that, I find it nauseating that conservatives, the so-called "moral-majority" (and religious majority) would even raise this question. Especially while so much damage and pain isn't even a day old. For those that claim allegiance to Christ, I ask you this question: Would Jesus allow people to suffer without lending aid in this situation?

I'm sure I'll get blasted, but I don't care. I've heard both sides of the issue, and I see both points, but I know which side my dollar and my heart goes toward.

Sackattack is the one talking about witholding aid. I just think it isnt very pragmatic for insurance companies and the government to pay to rebuild homes in areas with a potential to be destroyed, its happened quite a bit of late. Move inland.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by stevew

Sackattack is the one talking about witholding aid. I just think it isnt very pragmatic for insurance companies and the government to pay to rebuild homes in areas with a potential to be destroyed, its happened quite a bit of late. Move inland.

Children, seniors, and other people that don't have the means or options live in these homes, apartments, and other structures. To ask them to "move inland" is absolutely heartless and unfair. Especially right now. Life isn't just about money, politics and logic. It's amazing to see how many seemingly intelligent people have trouble understanding that.

[HomerJSimpson]

This is spreading out. Carrol County, Georgia has 30 homes destroyed and 100 homes damaged. Everyone still in the path, keep your eyes out and be safe.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by stevew

Sackattack is the one talking about witholding aid. I just think it isnt very pragmatic for insurance companies and the government to pay to rebuild homes in areas with a potential to be destroyed, its happened quite a bit of late. Move inland.

What about earthquakes in California? Landslides in Southern Cal? Torondoes in the midwest and open areas? Blizzards in the winter climate regions?

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by stevew

I just think it isnt very pragmatic for insurance companies and the government to pay to rebuild homes in areas with a potential to be destroyed,

I would think that because of the laws that require homeowners living in flood plains to carry additional flood insurance on top of their regular homeowners insurance, I would imagine that the insurance companies actually come out ahead in the long run...

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

For those that claim allegiance to Christ, I ask you this question: Would Jesus allow people to suffer without lending aid in this situation?

Of course not,


Jesus would just raise his arms and calm the storm.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

I would think that because of the laws that require homeowners living in flood plains to carry additional flood insurance on top of their regular homeowners insurance, I would imagine that the insurance companies actually come out ahead in the long run...

Since NO hasn't had this problem (hurricane related) in a long time, hopefully there's enough in escrow from various insurance companies to cover it. Theoretically, they've had to pay this insurance for years and years of esentially nothing, they should be able to cash it in now.

Of course the insurance companies will cry poor however.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

Since NO hasn't had this problem (hurricane related) in a long time, hopefully there's enough in escrow from various insurance companies to cover it. Theoretically, they've had to pay this insurance for years and years of esentially nothing, they should be able to cash it in now.

Of course the insurance companies will cry poor however.

Actually on MSNBC (or CNBC or one of those stations) I heard one of the insurance bigwigs say that this would be NOTHING at all like Andrew; the point was that Andrew was an historical disaster, and the insurance companies learned some lessons from it.

[Philliesfan980]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Actually on MSNBC (or CNBC or one of those stations) I heard one of the insurance bigwigs say that this would be NOTHING at all like Andrew; the point was that Andrew was an historical disaster, and the insurance companies learned some lessons from it.

I was probably dozing on what happened with the insurance companies relating to Andrew, can you please refresh?

[Tigercat]

If you want destinations to be reachable for vacations, scientific work, industrial work, and commerical work, you need people to live there. Someone is going to have to live in dangerous areas. And since we all benefit in small ways from having a population thats spread out as opposed to stacked up and living in super safe arcologies, all of us will have to live with the fact that we have to help lend a hand with our wallets from time to time.

My grandparents have totally lost their home near the gulf West of Biloxi to this storm. But its not like it happens every year to them, they lost one near the same spot in Camille 36 years ago. (They are a good 10 mile as the crow flies from the Gulf, 20 miles driving time.) So helping people rebuild houses every 36 years may be the price we have to pay to not abandon all the near coast line of the South for one big mega city in South Dakota.

Edit: West not East. Normally I have a good sense of direction, must be getting old.

[HomerJSimpson]

Actually heard a financial guru say the insurance companies MAKE money on these disasters. They pay out big money on the front end, but will more than make up for in increased premiums on the back-end. Don't worry, they're not.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by finkenst

Of course not,


Jesus would just raise his arms and calm the storm.

When I saw the "Of course not", I was expecting something like "Of course not... as long as they were in favor of tax cuts for the rich and opposed to abortion and gay marriage" but this was much better

SI

[HomerJSimpson]

They are showing live footage from a helicopter circling NO. Horrible flooding, and extreme building damage as far as you can see, at least on one side of the city.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

What about earthquakes in California? Landslides in Southern Cal? Torondoes in the midwest and open areas? Blizzards in the winter climate regions?

...Ice storms in the Midwest and East? Extreme heat in the Midwest? Forest fires in the West? Lightning strikes about anywhere? Damaging hail in the Midwest? No'easters in the Northeast?

All have killed people and caused huge amounts of property damage over the years.

[Buccaneer]

Watching the archived streaming videos on wwltv, I was impressed by the reporter immediately going to the rescue of the numbnut driving into a wall of water. I had been cynical enough to believe that certain others would have just stood there shouting "OMG!!!1!!! A CAR JUST DROVE INTO THE WATER!!!!111!!!!".

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Watching the archived streaming videos on wwltv, I was impressed by the reporter immediately going to the rescue of the numbnut driving into a wall of water. I had been cynical enough to believe that certain others would have just stood there shouting "OMG!!!1!!! A CAR JUST DROVE INTO THE WATER!!!!111!!!!".

Anderson Cooper.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Dola: I wonder how the Offshore Oil Rigs and Mississippi based refineries held up. I hope minimal damage but I doubt it.
Oh and reading those comments you'd think this guy is the second coming of Edward R. Murrow.

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Dola: I wonder how the Offshore Oil Rigs and Mississippi based refineries held up. I hope minimal damage but I doubt it.

I know they said at least two unmanned platforms are reported to be free-floating right now. And one rig that was brought into the Mobile bay is lodge in a bridge.

[st.cronin]

Some of the video is unreal. This is probably going to be the worst disaster in the US since at least 9/11.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Steve Harrigan on Fox can barely talk, let alone stand in all the wind. And he's still trying to give a report.

Check out this link (hopefully it goes to the right place) & you get a glimpse of one of the reasons crazy reporters do crazy things -- the sort of fan mail he's getting goes a long way toward making it make sense sometimes.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167284,00.html

[Buccaneer]

I'm sorry, Jon, but watching part of his 8 min video, all I saw was a guy trying to be macho and pointing out the VERY obvious.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Watching FOX News right now, and I'm getting sick to my stomache. I'm definitely a bit more conservative than I am liberal, but the more I see the conservative view-point of modern times, the more that line is thinning for me.

They are talking about the same things that Stevew is - Should "we" be forced to help these people that "choose" to live in a dangerous area? That is an absolute bullshit question. I highly doubt that the children that live in these areas "choose" to live there, and I also have a feeling that many poor people don't choose to live there either. Regardless of that, I find it nauseating that conservatives, the so-called "moral-majority" (and religious majority) would even raise this question. Especially while so much damage and pain isn't even a day old. For those that claim allegiance to Christ, I ask you this question: Would Jesus allow people to suffer without lending aid in this situation?

I'm sure I'll get blasted, but I don't care. I've heard both sides of the issue, and I see both points, but I know which side my dollar and my heart goes toward.

Good job finding a way to blast the evil conservatives in this thread. Nice. You've got a good point, why wreck it by trashing a whole group of people? You don't see me in here bashing liberal CNN for their prominent "Did Global Warming Cause Katrina?" headline, do you?

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Good job finding a way to blast the evil conservatives in this thread. Nice. You've got a good point, why wreck it by trashing a whole group of people? You don't see me in here bashing liberal CNN for their prominent "Did Global Warming Cause Katrina?" headline, do you?

You're a fucking twit. Read what I said again and make a cogent response.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

They are talking about the same things that Stevew is - Should "we" be forced to help these people that "choose" to live in a dangerous area?

My point of view has nothing to do with where they "choose" to live.

It has everything to do with the burden stupid people place on emergency services when they see a hurricane or wildfire approaching and refuse to evacuate. Not only is it a financial burden on the state at a time when it can least afford that burden, but it's putting the lives of skilled, trained emergency workers at risk - again, at a time when the state can least afford that burden.

IMO, if an individual is unwilling to follow evacuation orders designed to reduce the burden on the emergency workers and minimize loss of life, they should forfeit any right to rebuilding assistance as well.

People who cannot evacuate because they in some way fundamentally lack the capacity to do so, that's one thing. It's those who willfully place a burden on others in a time of disaster and then expect people to help them back up that I take issue with.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

My point of view has nothing to do with where they "choose" to live.

It has everything to do with the burden stupid people place on emergency services when they see a hurricane or wildfire approaching and refuse to evacuate. Not only is it a financial burden on the state at a time when it can least afford that burden, but it's putting the lives of skilled, trained emergency workers at risk - again, at a time when the state can least afford that burden.

IMO, if an individual is unwilling to follow evacuation orders designed to reduce the burden on the emergency workers and minimize loss of life, they should forfeit any right to rebuilding assistance as well.

People who cannot evacuate because they in some way fundamentally lack the capacity to do so, that's one thing. It's those who willfully place a burden on others in a time of disaster and then expect people to help them back up that I take issue with.

Like children, seniors and other people unable to make the choice to evacuate?

I want to say some mean things, but I need to stop....

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm sorry, Jon, but watching part of his 8 min video, all I saw was a guy trying to be macho and pointing out the VERY obvious.

One of these days we will see a reporter get killed on natl tv covering one of these things, and he will be hailed as a TRUE AMERICAN HERO.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I'm sorry, Jon, but watching part of his 8 min video, all I saw was a guy trying to be macho and pointing out the VERY obvious.

Which appears to have played pretty well.

I didn't see the piece(s) so I'm neutral on how they looked ... I'm just talking more about the "why they do it" aspect.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting through my 2nd tornado warning of the night, this time more nervously than the earlier one. The first was in my county but 10 miles east of me traveling due north so not a big worry personally. Nothing reported on the ground this time yet either, just hook echoes in the radar to this point, but it's pretty much due south of me ... and traveling due north.

Sitting here typing, it's still another 5-10 minutes from my location, but this kinda feels like sitting on a train track & seeing a light coming in the distance.

(If I stop posting, nobody freak or anything, with the wind & rain we're getting I'll be surprised if we don't lose power for a while soon, but that'll very likely be the worst that will happen).

[sterlingice]

Problem is, I think it's probably pretty hard to tell which person was/wasn't stupid about evacuating and while trying to rescue as many people as possible and time is of the essence is probably not the best time to be issuing questionaires and polygraphs. Sure, it sucks in that in an ideal world, because of limited resources, it would be best to get those to who both need and deserve them most. Unfortunately, there's not a good way to do that.

(Granted, in an even more ideal world, there's no limited resources and we save the dumbfucks in spite of themselves because, really, if you don't, you're just an asshat)

SI

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

If any good comes out of this tragedy it would be from FEMA getting some time and ''practice'' for any future calamities either man made or from nature.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

If any good comes out of this tragedy it would be from FEMA getting some time and ''practice'' for any future calamities either man made or from nature.

Haven't you seen the X-Files movie? FEMA is the tool the consortium will use to take over the world! Any practice for them is just getting us ready for the invasion!

SI