Katrina hits Category 5.

[Pumpy Tudors]

I'm sure that my opinion doesn't mean shit here, but it appears to me that this thread has been derailed. At least it didn't happen until the worst of the Katrina's damage had been done. I wish the best for everybody who is in the affected areas or who has family in the affected areas. That includes myself. My participation in this thread is over.

[Eaglesfan27]

I hear people complaining about having to help pay for the rebuilding of homes along the Gulf Coast, and I wonder if they realize the financial benefits the gulf coast brings to the rest of the USA. Oil, tourism, food, etc. are all signicantly contributed by the Gulf Coast. I think this is a heartless time to be debating about such things and was sickened to hear it on the news today, and am sad to see that sentiment echoed by a few here.

[Philliesfan980]

So all in all, where are we now? Is the storm almost over? Was as much damage done as anticipated?

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Check out this link (hopefully it goes to the right place) & you get a glimpse of one of the reasons crazy reporters do crazy things -- the sort of fan mail he's getting goes a long way toward making it make sense sometimes.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,167284,00.html

This is the video I had in mind when I posted that. Harrigan's a good reporter - his embedded reports from Afghanistan and Iraq were remarkable.

But this is a storm, not war. I don't need some reporter standing out in the wind and rain, risking getting their head chopped off by flying debris to tell me the winds are strong.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Meanwhile, I'm sitting through my 2nd tornado warning of the night, this time more nervously than the earlier one. The first was in my county but 10 miles east of me traveling due north so not a big worry personally. Nothing reported on the ground this time yet either, just hook echoes in the radar to this point, but it's pretty much due south of me ... and traveling due north.

This seems like a good time to post our "Tornado Night Drinking Game" that we've come up with here in Kansas. Granted, I don't really drink so it doesn't do me much good, but maybe it'll do someone so good.

Tornado Night Drinking Game

To Start, each time a station pulls away from normal coverage for tornado coverage, pull a bottle out of the liquor cabinet. And not just for a little 30s blurb with "More weather news at 11". I mean full blown "Tornado Night" coverage- you know what this is if you live in tornadic areas. I know this "each time a station pulls away" sounds silly but basically, you keep flipping between them to see if there's anything fun- new footage, more updated radar, a weatherman going crazy, etc. In Lawrence, this is a little nuts because we have 8 stations (4 Kansas City, 3 Topeka, and 1 Lawrence).

Next are your tornado night buzzwords. As with most drinking games, they have to be said just enough to be uncommon but likely to be heard a couple of times. If you hear a weatherman say "hook echo"- take a shot. If you hear a weatherman say "wall cloud"- that's a shot, too. "Wind shear" is another one.

Tornado watches count for nothing- it wouldn't be tornado night without them so they might as well be when you take the shotglasses down or something. However, if your county gets a tornado warning, that's two shots. If they show a Future Doppler (or whatever the local term is) and they have a storm that's produced a tornado and you're in the little arrow path they show, that's another two shots.

Finally, if they mention your town and this can't be a city- has to be a town or local area like your subdivision in a large city. For instance, Houston doesn't count but, say, Inwood, where I used to live- that'd count. Lawrence has 80K people so it doesn't count, but if they say a street intersection like Sixth and Wakarusa that's within a mile from where you are, that counts. Anyways, if they mention your place and it's within a couple of minutes, that means the news is at least a minute or two old and you'd better finish the bottle, stumble into the basement, bathtub, or wherever you hide to be safe.

SI

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I hear people complaining about having to help pay for the rebuilding of homes along the Gulf Coast, and I wonder if they realize the financial benefits the gulf coast brings to the rest of the USA. Oil, tourism, food, etc. are all signicantly contributed by the Gulf Coast. I think this is a heartless time to be debating about such things and was sickened to hear it on the news today, and am sad to see that sentiment echoed by a few here.

One brings to mind that billions in aid that were given to the 9/11 families and businesses. It was for the good of the city and for the good of the US. This is also why we have given trillions of dollars in aid all over the world, to good countries and to bad ones as well. It is better we do such things than not.

As a staunch libertarian, I believe the federal govt has too much money to spend but more importantly, if they have to have it, I believe it should be put to the best use as possible. This is one.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Let's see how this would have turned out.

Originally Posted by sterlingice

To Start, each time a station pulls away from normal coverage for tornado coverage, pull a bottle out of the liquor cabinet.

Well, when I tuned in at least two stations were wall-to-wall coverage, so I figure that's good for a couple of bottles at least.

I mean full blown "Tornado Night" coverage- you know what this is if you live in tornadic areas.

Heh, I know exactly what you mean & yeah, we do that here too.

As with most drinking games, they have to be said just enough to be uncommon but likely to be heard a couple of times. If you hear a weatherman say "hook echo"- take a shot. If you hear a weatherman say "wall cloud"- that's a shot, too. "Wind shear" is another one.

Would have gotten at least 3 or 4 shots from "hook echo" alone tonight.

However, if your county gets a tornado warning, that's two shots.

2 warnings X 2 shots = 4 shots.

Finally, if they mention your town and this can't be a city- has to be a town or local area like your subdivision in a large city.

"City charter" & incorporation not withstanding, I believe 3k population counts as "town" for our purposes here. We got at least two mentions thanks to the NWS wording tonight, so the bottles are gone & I'd have been in the closet under the stairs.

Good stuff SI & a lot more pleasant than me sitting here listening to the next band of rain passing overhead.

I'm usually pretty okay with nights like these, but this one has me jumpier than usual. Especially when you get those spells where in rains in sheets & suddenly goes dead calm. Or when you hear sounds like a very hard wind, but there's nothing moving the trees (aka that "freight train whooshing sound"). I heard that sound twice in about 10 minutes, so did my wife, but there was zip going on outside both times, everything had fallen quiet ... too quiet.

Nerve wracking crap kinda night I tell ya, nervous indeed.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Philliesfan980

So all in all, where are we now? Is the storm almost over? Was as much damage done as anticipated?

I don't think as much damage as anticipated was done, but I think significant damage was done. I'm not sure that will be fully assessed for a day or two at least. I do know from several reports that the low lying lands in Plaquemines Parish were hit very hard. One of the things that I do for work is ride in a state vehicle to see very poor kids in at a school called Phoenix. The community is so poor that the high school serves Kindergarden through 12th grade. It's really close to the ocean and the surge appears to have hit this area very hard. I'm scared that some of my patients might end up being among the casualities. I know many of them are so poor that they just don't have transportation to leave the area.

I also know from a report about Chalmette High School that my main clinic is almost certainly severely flooded. I don't know about my own place, but when I think about the possible casualty counts, it doesn't seem nearly as important. Also, I've heard/seen reports that multiple parts of I-10 are under water right now. I'm not sure how I'm going to return to the city yet. However, at least the main part of the city was spared the worst part of the storm and there is a city to return to. I just worry about the people in Plaquemines and Saint Bernard which were areas that I was quickly becoming attached to.

As I'm typing this, the video on ABC during the halftime of the football game is just shocking again. Once again, I'm reminded how bad it is. A mall I've shopped at frequently is heavily damaged. Streets are under a great amount of water. One of the areas where I was thinking about buying our house experienced heavy flooding.

Of course, that doesn't even count the severe damage to Mississippi, Alabama, and many other places like Georgia which were hit by Tornados associated with the storm. In fact, my father-in-law evacuated to be near his family in Georgia (he and MIL divorced a long time ago) and there was a tornado not too far from him in Snellville reportedly. I think there will be some damage from the storm even this evening.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Good stuff SI & a lot more pleasant than me sitting here listening to the next band of rain passing overhead.

I'm usually pretty okay with nights like these, but this one has me jumpier than usual. Especially when you get those spells where in rains in sheets & suddenly goes dead calm. Or when you hear sounds like a very hard wind, but there's nothing moving the trees (aka that "freight train whooshing sound"). I heard that sound twice in about 10 minutes, so did my wife, but there was zip going on outside both times, everything had fallen quiet ... too quiet.

Nerve wracking crap kinda night I tell ya, nervous indeed.

Well, because it's in bands, it's a lot different than your typical storm, I'd imagine. I mean, sure there are storms that come and go in a normal mess but it has an ebb and flow to it that's probably much different than this. Hopefully you and everyone else in the path of this storm make it through safely.

SI

[JonInMiddleGA]

EaglesFan -- re: Snellville: No promises, but I haven't found anything mentioning any weather damage in that area at all so far, looks like they just got nasty t-storms that had hook echoes but no tornadoes on the ground mentioned anywhere in that area. Hopefully he just had some nervous time like we had here but nothing worse than that.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I'm sure that my opinion doesn't mean shit here, but it appears to me that this thread has been derailed. At least it didn't happen until the worst of the Katrina's damage had been done. I wish the best for everybody who is in the affected areas or who has family in the affected areas. That includes myself. My participation in this thread is over.

Agreed. I guess by now I shouldn't be surprised that even this thread has deteriorated into a political quagmire...

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Agreed. I guess by now I shouldn't be surprised that even this thread has deteriorated into a political quagmire...

I hope I wasn't the person that started it, but I was literally hurt and angry by the words of people that I usually considered decent.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

EaglesFan -- re: Snellville: No promises, but I haven't found anything mentioning any weather damage in that area at all so far, looks like they just got nasty t-storms that had hook echoes but no tornadoes on the ground mentioned anywhere in that area. Hopefully he just had some nervous time like we had here but nothing worse than that.

I understand that there are no promises, but that is still nice to hear. Thanks. Our cell phones aren't working. Reportedly, that is because our home towers are in the New Orleans area and those towers are "disabled." It is frustrating to have such difficulties getting in touch with relatives and friends who left town.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I understand that there are no promises, but that is still nice to hear. Thanks.

In addition to the oft-mention newspaper website
http://www.ajc.com

Here's our TV station links
(just in case you want to check a little closer for the area tomorrow morning.) For reference points, Snellville is in Gwinnett County, about 25 miles ENE of Atlanta, about 15 miles due east of SkyDog in Tucker, about 60 miles NNW of me in Monticello.

http://www.wsbtv.com/index.html
http://www.cbs46.com/
http://www.11alive.com/
http://www.fox5atlanta.com/index2.shtml

[Tigercat]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

As I'm typing this, the video on ABC during the halftime of the football game is just shocking again. Once again, I'm reminded how bad it is. A mall I've shopped at frequently is heavily damaged. Streets are under a great amount of water. One of the areas where I was thinking about buying our house experienced heavy flooding.

I know the feelings. Seeing Clearview mall decimated like that by wind and water at halftime seemed so surreal. I remember going with my family to Maison Blanche a lot when I was little and seeing puppet shows in Clearview.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now the really bad stuff begins ... at least 55 people dead in Mississippi, including 30 residents of an apartment complex in Biloxi.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/200...D8C9T0O80.html
http://www.clarionledger.com/apps/pb...S0110/50829038

[Craptacular]

Yep, just saw the breaking news on top of CNN.com.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

I heard on the news that water is still rising gradually. God help those trapped in their attics.

[GoldenEagle]

Well, the power has been out all night here. It finally came back on but it will go out again. i am going to bed here soon. The only thing there was to do was to sseat aroudn adn drink and i did that.

[Eaglesfan27]

As an aside, I'm really enjoying Little Rock, AK. We ended up actually staying in North Little Rock to keep the entire family together. We are by the McClain (sp?) Mall. Lots of shops, movie theaters, and restaurants around. I really like the nice weather that is less humid and hot than New Orleans so far. I don't know much about the city, but my very early impressions are that I could happily relocate here should it ever become necessary or desirable.

Jon, thanks for the links. I worry about my FIL much less than my other in-laws. He is ex-military and can handle just about anything.

Also, this room at the La Quinta is nicer and bigger than many "fancy" hotels I've stayed in. It is also about a third of the price that I've paid at some of those same hotels.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

I heard on the news that water is still rising gradually. God help those trapped in their attics.

I'm really worried about that. It would seem that all of the rain that is falling in the Tennessee valley and the surrounding area will likely drain into the Mississippi. I imagine the river could continue to rise which might be problematic.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Im listening to Jean Meserve's discription on Aaaron Brown on CNN right now and it is riveting, I have goosebumps listening to it right now. It reminds me of ER Murrow on BBC . Her descriptions were pretty graphic, Women with legs gone, many dead dogs, bodies all around.....Its gonna be bad folks.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Dola: From interviews it seems that people walked out of their shelters when the rains and winds stopped and were caught by the storm surge.....

[sterlingice]

Things seem to have taken a turn for the worse. Apparently there's a 2 block wide breach in the levee holding back Lake Pontchartrain.

SI

[Masked]

I am at a complete loss seeing the extreme damage in New Orleans, especially since the storm "missed" the city. My family is safe in a shelter in the city. They don't know what if any damage our home suffered. It was fine in the morning, but they haven't been able to get in touch with anyone (phone service is down) since a nearby levee failed (17th St Canal). Water is still rising in the area. It's hard to express how I feel now; I am not worried about the possessions, but the thought of the house/home I grew up in being detroyed is very saddening.

[Eaglesfan27]

Oh my

Just watching CNN and listening to the VP of Tulane Hospital and Clinics say that she has been told by state police that there is a 2 block breach of the levee and Lake Pontchatrain is just draining into the city. She said water is rising around Tulane and Charity Hospital (they are right next to each other) at 1 inch every 5 minutes! It is now over 6 feet high and rising rapidly.

I just checked my staff website at LSU/Charity Hospital and they are evacuating as they have lost the backup generator (which could be very bad for many critical patients on ventilators.) They are going to evacuate via helicopters

I suspect that I'm going to have to try to extend my stay here in Little Rock past Weds. morning.

[sterlingice]

Things seemed to be going fairly well until now. There was no way to escape this without major damage, but it seems that New Orleans had been narrowly missed and it made landfall in places that, while it sucks that it had to make landfall anywhere, they seemed to be in spots that could *mostly* (not all, of course) drain off fairly quickly and rebuild easier than NO.

SI

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Has anyone had any contact with folks in the coastal areas of Louisiana? From what Ive heard there's no news / contact as of yet from any of those towns and that it seems that nobody listened to the warnings or didnt hear em. This is not looking good.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

Has anyone had any contact with folks in the coastal areas of Louisiana? From what Ive heard there's no news / contact as of yet from any of those towns and that it seems that nobody listened to the warnings or didnt hear em. This is not looking good.

The local media has very little info about conditions in lower Plaquemines parish (the part that sticks out into the gulf), Slidell, and the Mississippi gulf coast. Estimates are that 80% of the people evacuated New Orelans and similar numbers have been reported for other areas.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

What about earthquakes in California? Landslides in Southern Cal? Torondoes in the midwest and open areas? Blizzards in the winter climate regions?

Maybe if everyone moves off planet then Stevew won't pay as much insurance. I'm sure he'd like that.

[Masked]

The Amry Corp of Engineers is supposedly will release a statement on the levee breach of the 17th street canal. The initial breach occurred sometime early this afternoon, but recent reports (on CNN) suggests that it might be getting much worse. The canal is an open air drainage ditch that is contiguous with the lake and about half a block from where I lived growing up.

[Axxon]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Agreed. I guess by now I shouldn't be surprised that even this thread has deteriorated into a political quagmire...

To me it hasn't though. I see dumbasses on both side of the aisle on this one. I think some people really have the need to feel superior to others and that isn't necessarily politically motivated.

What sucks now is that all my good feeling about the hurricane sparing NO is being diminished because I'm reading that it's not over yet.

Yeah, I went to sleep as soon as I got home and this is the first place I went for "news" so I hadn't really heard any hurricane coveraqe since monday morning.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

OMG! Anyone see the aerial shot of New Orleans???? OMG!

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by CHEMICAL SOLDIER

OMG! Anyone see the aerial shot of New Orleans???? OMG!

Link?

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9063708/
NBC's Kerry Sanders, reporting from a helicopter above the city, said “it's basically one giant lake here in New Orleans.”
FOX NEWS and CNN are showing the shots now.

[Ben E Lou]

• Watch: 'You can't hold me, take care of the kids'

EDIT: You can't direct-clink on that link. Go to CNN.Com. It is on the front page.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

• Watch: 'You can't hold me, take care of the kids'

EDIT: You can't direct-clink on that link. Go to CNN.Com. It is on the front page.

I heard this on CNN radio last nite and ino words can describe the guys emotions.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Watching FOX News right now, and I'm getting sick to my stomache. I'm definitely a bit more conservative than I am liberal, but the more I see the conservative view-point of modern times, the more that line is thinning for me.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Regardless of that, I find it nauseating that conservatives, the so-called "moral-majority" (and religious majority) would even raise this question. Especially while so much damage and pain isn't even a day old. For those that claim allegiance to Christ, I ask you this question: Would Jesus allow people to suffer without lending aid in this situation?

Originally Posted by Schmidty

You're a fucking twit. Read what I said again and make a cogent response.

Just because FOX News and one person on this list said it, doesn't mean that the entire "moral-majority" or whatever you want to call conservatives these days are fully behind it. I'm a conservative, and my personal opinion on this issue is that there needs to be some limits to what we do in dangerous areas (high-rise buildings in LA are specifically DESIGNED to withstand earthquakes, for example), but I agree that people everywhere have something they deal with and we as a country need to step up and help them.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I hope I wasn't the person that started it, but I was literally hurt and angry by the words of people that I usually considered decent.

Use a narrower brush next time, then. Call out the specific people, not an entire group. I thought Sack had a good point (he was very careful to attack people who CHOOSE to stay, not the large numbers who were stuck) that others chose to misinterpret, but you were the first to bring in the political angle to this.

[Buccaneer]

Please, start sending your funds and materials to any of the relief agencies.

The one question I have is was there a mandatory evacuation of the Mississippi Gulf Coast?

[HomerJSimpson]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Please, start sending your funds and materials to any of the relief agencies.

The one question I have is was there a mandatory evacuation of the Mississippi Gulf Coast?

Yes.

[vex]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

• Watch: 'You can't hold me, take care of the kids'

EDIT: You can't direct-clink on that link. Go to CNN.Com. It is on the front page.

That was horrible

[Yuskevich]

I don't mean to minimize the seriousness of what has happened to Louisiana and Mississippi (I used to live in West Alabama myself, so I feel some attachment to those regions), but I was taken aback when a local mayor (of Biloxi, I think) spoke of this event as "our tsunami," according to a CNN headline. Isn't that statement somewhat over the top and, in a way, arrogant? There is a qualitative difference, not just a quantitative difference, between an event that kills perhaps 200,000 people, and an event that kills perhaps 100 people.

Why is it that Americans so strongly insist that our suffering is as bad as everyone else's suffering? Maybe it comes from a sense of guilt, a realization that, in fact, we never suffer the way that most people in the world suffer.

Again, I am not saying this to downplay the seriousness of the situation itself, just to raise a question about how Americans deal with these situations, and comport themselves more generally.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Yuskevich

Isn't that statement somewhat over the top and, in a way, arrogant?

There's also a certain amount of relativity in play here, it's likely as close to being a tsunami as Biloxi (et al) is going to get. Same way a rec-league football coach might say of a city-wide championship game "This is our Super Bowl".

Why is it that Americans so strongly insist that our suffering is as bad as everyone else's suffering?

Dunno, but I do have a question or three of my own.

How on earth did you happen to stumble across our humble little forum for the first time ever & of all the threads pick this one to post in for your debut?
Or are you a long-time lurker so moved by all of this that you decided today was the day that you just had to post something? Or is it possible that you're a regular who wanted to troll this thread in an attempt to sidetrack it into another round of political based argument but lacked the balls to do it under your own name? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Yuskevich

...but I was taken aback when a local mayor (of Biloxi, I think) spoke of this event as "our tsunami," according to a CNN headline. Isn't that statement somewhat over the top and, in a way, arrogant? There is a qualitative difference, not just a quantitative difference, between an event that kills perhaps 200,000 people, and an event that kills perhaps 100 people.

As an outsider, I kind of do think of this as "America's Tsunami"... the potential of Katrina would have been absolutely devastating in terms of human casualties if not all the timely warnings, evacuations and protective measures..

The difference between the Tsunami in Thailand etc in December and Katrina, is that the Tsunami came without any warning.. no one was prepared for the absolute catastrophe.. no weather-reports had warned off the people on the beaches, no national disaster warnings had gone out on TV etc etc.. However, imagine what would have happened to New Orleans et al if no warnings whatsoever had come.. So I personally view this as "America's Tsunami" in many ways.. not the least in the way that I think several thousand lives could have been saved if the people in Thailand had been warned.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

As an aside, I'm really enjoying Little Rock, AK. We ended up actually staying in North Little Rock to keep the entire family together. We are by the McClain (sp?) Mall. Lots of shops, movie theaters, and restaurants around. I really like the nice weather that is less humid and hot than New Orleans so far. I don't know much about the city, but my very early impressions are that I could happily relocate here should it ever become necessary or desirable.

Jon, thanks for the links. I worry about my FIL much less than my other in-laws. He is ex-military and can handle just about anything.

Also, this room at the La Quinta is nicer and bigger than many "fancy" hotels I've stayed in. It is also about a third of the price that I've paid at some of those same hotels.

Little Rock isn't such a bad little city. Arkansas gets bad when you get outside of the area.

[Mr. Wednesday]

Originally Posted by Coder

As an outsider, I kind of do think of this as "America's Tsunami"... the potential of Katrina would have been absolutely devastating in terms of human casualties if not all the timely warnings, evacuations and protective measures..

I think the Galveston storm of 1908 is probably a good comparison here.

[WSUCougar]

I find it amazing that some of you are quibbling over your various agendas in the midst of a disaster thread. Take it somewhere else.

[GoldenEagle]

It struck here pretty hard and we were on the weak side of the system. It was just so big to affect Atlanta and here at the same. We had about 40 MPH winds for all of the night with some good gusts. No injuries that I know of but there were several fires and power outages. My own power went off and back on several times before going out for about four hours.

That is my report. I do not think we ever under any life threatening circumstances. It was still pretty bad though. I can not imagine what it would be like to go through one of these if the winds were 175 MPH.

[HomerJSimpson]

So, what's the plan, EF? What is your hospital going to do if it is months before than can get the building back into condition?

[Warhammer]

Heck, I had to wake up at 12:30 last night to discover a leak in the big window in my bedroom. Wife was trying to figure out what I was doing with a stack of towels at that time of the night.