Lost, Season 2

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'd guess it's a timer that has to be reset every 108 minutes, or else the underground place blows up. So maybe if Jack pushed the button without putting in the numbers that would blow up the place as well?

Yeah, my gut feeling was that either the hatch/underground lair or perhaps that and more blow up if that timer isn't constantly reset.

Also, Desmond has clearly been there a while based on all the scratch marks on the wall that show he's been marking days. It's getting kind of interesting to me now, because I almost get the feeling that although he's been there much longer than the crash survivors, he may not even be among the original group of inhabitants. It's tough to tell at this point.

[gottimd]

Ok, so I saw that the shark is branded from rewatching, but the thing I was wondering is, if animals are branded with this label, doesn't it seem more like it is pointing towards some sort of experimentation island? Although not sure if the polar bear was branded. Maybe he was and we just didnt see it.

[Joe Canadian]

I haven't read any other posts yet, so I'm not sure how much of this has been covered yet.

My first thought was that the hatch is some kind of Cold War bunker... but that idea goes out the window with the countdown and logo on the shark. I'm assuming that the countdown is some sort of self destruct thing so Desmond can't leave (although after re-watching the episode, it's weird Desmond got so destracted with Kate & Locke).... and the branding is also on the food in the hatch, and seems to be some sort of security system. So if it was a bunker, why wouldn't the person ever be allowed to leave?

My mom says the answer to Desmond's question to Locke about the snowman is: Can you smell carrots? Is that some sort of clue, or it it simply the "password" for the hatch people? The hatch was made for two people, and by Desmond's reaction to Locke it doesn't seem like the other person has been there yet.

... However, the protein shakes and ??steroids?? (injection stuff) would explain Ethan's strength. But how did he get out?

A friend of a friend, who watched the show with her Korean friend said that one of the words Jin said when running from the forest was "infected." Take that speculation how you will... but it did seem like those people were a tad crazy in the preview. Are they "the others" the french woman was talking about, or are they infected survivors & not all of them (Michelle Rodriguez) have been infected?

I've heard two explanations for what Walt said in the premiere:
- Don't press th buttons the numbers are bad.
- Press the buttons, no numbers are bad.

Walt's connection with the polar bear continues...

The timeline doesn't fit for Desmond being down there since the 80's, at least I don't think it does. I seem to remember that Jack and his fiance didn't know each other for that long... that puts the accident in the early 90's... but in order for Desmond to be there the whole time he had to been there since at least 1988 (french woman has been there for 16 years). So that brings me to the question of... is that Desmond or a twin? He didn't seem to recognize Jack, and you'd think he'd remember the miracle the performed. And if it is him, and my timeline is correct, how does this fit i with the french woman and her boat?

The magnet answers the questions about the compass in episode one & two, the weird piece of metal swooping down and blowing up the engine in episode one... and the plane crash. At least I think it does.

So there's my random thought so far this season... and does anyone no where I can re-watch the preview for next week?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

It wasn't anything I was looking for and I caught it easily on the first watch. Same logo as all the other stuff Desmond had.

Ok I thought I was crazy but I saw that too.

My understanding is all that logo is in real life is a Feng Shui logo.

[Joe Canadian]

Ok, I'm watching last weeks episode around the part Jack scans the painted wall... and it appears that the word "oui" is written on it... does that mean the french woman or her friends were there at one point?

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by Joe Canadian

My mom says the answer to Desmond's question to Locke about the snowman is: Can you smell carrots? Is that some sort of clue, or it it simply the "password" for the hatch people? The hatch was made for two people, and by Desmond's reaction to Locke it doesn't seem like the other person has been there yet.

Where did she get that from, is this some known riddle?

... However, the protein shakes and ??steroids?? (injection stuff) would explain Ethan's strength. But how did he get out?

Not so sure Ethan and Desmond have a connection. I think ethan was part of the others that was on the boat. I think the others are infected which may give them some sort of strength.

A friend of a friend, who watched the show with her Korean friend said that one of the words Jin said when running from the forest was "infected." Take that speculation how you will... but it did seem like those people were a tad crazy in the preview. Are they "the others" the french woman was talking about, or are they infected survivors & not all of them (Michelle Rodriguez) have been infected?

Could the word "infected" be lost in translation? Maybe infected as in crazy???? How would he know they are infected, last time I checked jin wasn't a doctor and I don't think he has any knowledge of there being a virus or something on the island.

I've heard two explanations for what Walt said in the premiere:
- Don't press th buttons the numbers are bad.
- Press the buttons, no numbers are bad.

I heard on one of those entertainment news stations, and they played it back, it did sound like he said "Press the buttons...." If that is true I would be inclined to think that the buttons do halt some sort of self destruct mechanism. But that brings up the question as to why walt didn't want them to go down there in the first place?

So there's my random thought so far this season... and does anyone no where I can re-watch the preview for next week?

Try...(inviso text for those who dont want to see)
hxxp://www.thetailsection.com
hxxp://www.thefuselage.com

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Ok I thought I was crazy but I saw that too.

My understanding is all that logo is in real life is a Feng Shui logo.

The logo is called the "Bagua".

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Where did she get that from, is this some known riddle?

Apparently... some of my friends have heard it as well...

Not so sure Ethan and Desmond have a connection. I think ethan was part of the others that was on the boat. I think the others are infected which may give them some sort of strength.

I'm leaning that way to, it was just some speculation.

Could the word "infected" be lost in translation? Maybe infected as in crazy???? How would he know they are infected, last time I checked jin wasn't a doctor and I don't think he has any knowledge of there being a virus or something on the island.

Quite possibly, yes. I heard it, it sounded interesting so I posted it... personally I need more than a translation from a friend of a friend to go on, so I too am on the fence on that one.

[gottimd]

I heard another answer to that riddle is "Freeze"
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Hurley told the joke in Season 1, so Hurley can answer that riddle, is he the one Desmond is looking for? Why? I would say he saw him on TV, but then he would know who he is looking for bu appearance.

[Raiders Army]

*shrug* I thought the answer was going to be something like "Raise it up" or whatever he said in the first episode to Jack in the stadium.

You guys are going to think I'm crazy, but just as I thought Season 1's finale sucked balls, this episode was extremely good. The acting on the raft was terrific, especially as dawn broke and Mike was crying. You could tell Sawyer was thinking about his dad and how he would've liked to have a father who cared for him like Mike does for Walt. Again, my expectations were not high for "moving the plot along" so I thought it was a great episode that moved the plot along while standing still in time. It reminded me a bit of Ender's Shadow, which is essentially the same story as Ender's Game but told from a different perspective.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by kingfc22

Secondly, I don't think this "new" group is the other half of the plane because they show Michelle Rodriguez' character locked up with Mike in the previews. Why would the other half lock up their own.

Because I think there's some crazy Lord of the Flies shizzle going down on the other side of the island. I've no doubt those are the other survivors, from the tail section.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Because I think there's some crazy Lord of the Flies shizzle going down on the other side of the island. I've no doubt those are the other survivors, from the tail section.

I'm not so sure. Who was Ethan then? He wasn't on the manifest at all.

I think there are many groups on the island. There is the group that Ethan was part of that I believe is related to those on the boat (I belive these are "the others"). I think this group my be infected with some plague (that may also empower them in other ways). There are the other survivors which may have run into trouble with "the others." And then there is Desmond and the island security systems (monster, shark, etc.).

But I could be completely wrong.

[gottimd]

So if the numbers play an important role as we all think, the tail section would include just row 42???? Because Jack was in row 23 I think. Unless row 108 survived too, if there was a row 108. But even if there was, what can there be, 3*3 or 9 people per row? Just thinking out loud.

[Raiders Army]

After taking the bullet out and swimming with the shark, I gotta say Sawyer's the fucking man.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by John Galt

I'm not so sure. Who was Ethan then? He wasn't on the manifest at all.

I think there are many groups on the island. There is the group that Ethan was part of that I believe is related to those on the boat (I belive these are "the others"). I think this group my be infected with some plague (that may also empower them in other ways). There are the other survivors which may have run into trouble with "the others." And then there is Desmond and the island security systems (monster, shark, etc.).

But I could be completely wrong.

Ethan's name wasn't on the manifest. Every other name was. Including the dead and the missing...who we'll discover on the other side of the island, chasing Piggy.

(And yes, perhaps it's because they're infected somehow)

gottimd: No 108 (the last row was 42, I believe), but 108 is the sum of the string of 'lucky' numbers.

[NoMyths]

dola...

My sense of trying to figure out what's happening is based a lot on trying to figure out a) what's possible on TV, b) what's likely on TV, and c) what would generate the most conflict. If it were just a mysterious group of hellions, it's not nearly as interesting as if the tailsection cats went savage, esp. considering their future interaction with the midsection folks.

'Course, I could be completely wrong.

[gottimd]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

gottimd: No 108 (the last row was 42, I believe), but 108 is the sum of the string of 'lucky' numbers.

I know that about 108, but I was just thinking about if the numbers played a role as in who survived, that if they were truly in the Tail section, row 42 would be the only row there, which at most could be 9-10 people, tops.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

dola...

My sense of trying to figure out what's happening is based a lot on trying to figure out a) what's possible on TV, b) what's likely on TV, and c) what would generate the most conflict. If it were just a mysterious group of hellions, it's not nearly as interesting as if the tailsection cats went savage, esp. considering their future interaction with the midsection folks.

'Course, I could be completely wrong.

It could also explain what the sickness is. I don't think that it makes you die, but it makes you go craaaaaazy...as hinted by the French Lady.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

The certainly could have made it a 2-hour premier (and probably should have for our sake), but for ratings they're going to want to drag this out over as many weeks as possible. I guess I can't blame them, it's all in the game. Still, I'll admit some weeks can be pretty frustrating. I would rate this episode a C , after rating the season opener an A+.

I guess it all depends with why you watch/enjoy the show, but I have yet to be frustrated by the show for not revealing enough of the mysteries or answering enough questions. If anything, I enjoy how each episode sorta of works to deepen the mystery allowing fans of the show to try and hash out what exactly is going on and how one thing related to another.

I don't think the show has done anything stupid to delay answering questions. It's not like one of the characters suddenly got anmensia for a few hours, or a cougar appeared out of nowhere, or the guy with the answers to the questions was suddenly put upon and killed by a gang of rednecks in downtown Los Angeles. Unlike "24" (from which all the examples above are taken), the writers haven't gone off on any superfluous frolics or detours to extend the show or obfuscate the mysteries. Each scene either further developes the characters, deepens the mysteries, answers some small part of it, or some combination of all three. The plot and story are moving along at their own pace. The characters are great and deep and I enjoy watching their stories unfold on screen and seeing how one thing connects with another.

Take last night's episode for example. I thought the scene from Locke's perspective was great. The clock, the riddle, the "are you him", the interaction between Locke and Kate, Kate crawling through the air ducts (hubba hubba!), all of that. I would much rather see all of the details and the mysteries from each angle and let things deepen, than just sort of a "set 'em up, knock 'em down" approach to questions in the show.

So long as the characters remain believable and true and the quality of the writing, acting, and directing remain top notch (as they have been throughout) I am more than happy to sit back and enjoy the ride.

[Raiders Army]

Hey, is it just me, but when the camera jerks around does it annoy anyone else? I know that since Saving Private Ryan came out directors are doing the "realistic" jerky thing with the camera, but this has annoyed me from the first episode of Season 1.

[gottimd]

HB, well said.

And outstanding use of the word obfuscate.

Raiders Army, I hate that too, but I don't see it as much here as much as NYPD Blue.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

It could also explain what the sickness is. I don't think that it makes you die, but it makes you go craaaaaazy...as hinted by the French Lady.

Exactly. The French lady seemed to imply that the sickness drove her crew mates to go mad and then kill each other or themselves. The sickness would appear to be tied to the whispering voices in the jungle. I could see where that would drive people mad.

It appears as if there have been a number of "disasters" on the island which leave people stranded there (The Black Rock, The French Woman's expedition, etc.). Perhaps the "others" were from some other disaster or some conglomeration of people from various disaster, drove made by the sickness.

I can't wait.

[gottimd]

Could the sickness be a true virus or just the way to describe the fact that they have all gone nuts, and they have attributed it to some sort of virus?

EDIT: I know the hatch said quarantined, so maybe there was a virus that used to live out there but is now gone, just like how desmond was shocked that there was a civilization still out there.

[gottimd]

Dola,


For those who missed it, here is a preview (not spoiler) of the next episode.

hxxp://www.thetailsection.com/images/s02e03_orientation_preview.wmv

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Hey, is it just me, but when the camera jerks around does it annoy anyone else? I know that since Saving Private Ryan came out directors are doing the "realistic" jerky thing with the camera, but this has annoyed me from the first episode of Season 1.

I don't mind it that much. If it's over used, then it certainly can get annoying, but I find it an effective way to convey a sense of confusion or agression. Like any tool for a director, when used right and in moderation it can be very effective, but when over used it can become distracting or cliche.

I thought the final scene last night, with Jin running out and then the shot of the "others" was simply brilliant. Though, I can't remember if there was camera jerkiness in that shot or not.

[Raiders Army]

I tend to get used to it so it isn't as noticable as it was when I first watched the show, but at certain times it's somewhat annoying. *shrug*

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I guess it all depends with why you watch/enjoy the show, but I have yet to be frustrated by the show for not revealing enough of the mysteries or answering enough questions. If anything, I enjoy how each episode sorta of works to deepen the mystery allowing fans of the show to try and hash out what exactly is going on and how one thing related to another.

I don't think the show has done anything stupid to delay answering questions. It's not like one of the characters suddenly got anmensia for a few hours, or a cougar appeared out of nowhere, or the guy with the answers to the questions was suddenly put upon and killed by a gang of rednecks in downtown Los Angeles. Unlike "24" (from which all the examples above are taken), the writers haven't gone off on any superfluous frolics or detours to extend the show or obfuscate the mysteries. Each scene either further developes the characters, deepens the mysteries, answers some small part of it, or some combination of all three. The plot and story are moving along at their own pace. The characters are great and deep and I enjoy watching their stories unfold on screen and seeing how one thing connects with another.

Take last night's episode for example. I thought the scene from Locke's perspective was great. The clock, the riddle, the "are you him", the interaction between Locke and Kate, Kate crawling through the air ducts (hubba hubba!), all of that. I would much rather see all of the details and the mysteries from each angle and let things deepen, than just sort of a "set 'em up, knock 'em down" approach to questions in the show.

So long as the characters remain believable and true and the quality of the writing, acting, and directing remain top notch (as they have been throughout) I am more than happy to sit back and enjoy the ride.

I'm a gigantic fan of the show, don't get me wrong. I just personally find Michael to be the least interesting character on the show, and I've been generally bored with all his episodes. We should be safe from another one for a while, which is good.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I'm a gigantic fan of the show, don't get me wrong. I just personally find Michael to be the least interesting character on the show, and I've been generally bored with all his episodes. We should be safe from another one for a while, which is good.

I couldn't agree more. I find Michael uninteresting, boring, and, to be frank, a giant asshole. He was a prick to Jin. He was a prick to Sawyer. Walt is cool, but his dad's a dweeb.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I couldn't agree more. I find Michael uninteresting, boring, and, to be frank, a giant asshole. He was a prick to Jin. He was a prick to Sawyer. Walt is cool, but his dad's a dweeb.

I think his back story shows why he is that way though, at least partially. I understand why you don't like him, but I guess not everyone can be likeable. And Michael is not the only one to be a prick to Sawyer.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by Cringer

I think his back story shows why he is that way though, at least partially. I understand why you don't like him, but I guess not everyone can be likeable. And Michael is not the only one to be a prick to Sawyer.

This is very true. Sawyer is everyone's whipping dog. Well, he did put some of it on himself, as he often acted the ass. But he's such a good guy, he just likes to pretend he's not.

Michael's wife was a bitch too. I found her very unpleasant, especially since it appeared she hid all of the letters Michael had been sending to Walt. Shameful.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I couldn't agree more. I find Michael uninteresting, boring, and, to be frank, a giant asshole. He was a prick to Jin. He was a prick to Sawyer. Walt is cool, but his dad's a dweeb.

Frankly, this is why (can't remember) is a good actor. I thought the same thing when I watched professional wrestling before it became the tongue-in-cheek mockery it is today. Those wrestler that you hated were actually some of the best performers because they caused you a strong emotion. Same with the guy who plays Mike. He plays it so well and personally I agree with Cringer. He's a three-dimensional character who has his reasons for being the way he is. That to me, is good.

[Yossarian]

...as hinted by the French Lady.

Those Minbari... always talking in riddles.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Michael's wife was a bitch too. I found her very unpleasant, especially since it appeared she hid all of the letters Michael had been sending to Walt. Shameful.

Yes, his wife was a major bitch to me. All the talk about how he should let go of Walt because it is what is good for him, and what is good for him is all that matters, not them. This is true, but she clearly didn't think this way because she wanted the better job, the higher salary, and everything that came with it.

This is one reason I do not have a problem with Michael. He has his reason's for acting the way he does with his son and other people.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Frankly, this is why (can't remember) is a good actor. I thought the same thing when I watched professional wrestling before it became the tongue-in-cheek mockery it is today. Those wrestler that you hated were actually some of the best performers because they caused you a strong emotion. Same with the guy who plays Mike. He plays it so well and personally I agree with Cringer. He's a three-dimensional character who has his reasons for being the way he is. That to me, is good.

I disagree. The character is completely two dimensional ("I'm angry! arrghhh!") and I think he is by far the worst actor of the major cast members.

[Joe Canadian]

Originally Posted by Cringer

Yes, his wife was a major bitch to me. All the talk about how he should let go of Walt because it is what is good for him, and what is good for him is all that matters, not them. This is true, but she clearly didn't think this way because she wanted the better job, the higher salary, and everything that came with it.

I disagree with your take on the wife's objective... but regarding that situation last night. When you usually have custody battles on TV, there's usually that "private" talk without the lawyers they had on Lost... but usually there's some sort of comprimise. Michael was dead set against what she was trying to do... then he just gave in and gave her everything she wanted? There was no common ground reached... he just let Walt go.

IMO, the way they set Michael's character up, he would never do that.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

I don't think the show has done anything stupid to delay answering questions.

I think they are...after all - the scene w/ Desmond ended in the same place it did last week. The only difference is now we know Kate is in the room, and that there is some countdown than Desmond has been manipulating for a while.

But anyways, yeah - we ended at the same place as before!

[Honolulu_Blue]

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

I think they are...after all - the scene w/ Desmond ended in the same place it did last week. The only difference is now we know Kate is in the room, and that there is some countdown than Desmond has been manipulating for a while.

But anyways, yeah - we ended at the same place as before!

But seeing what happened in the shaft from Locke's perspective was excellent. We know a lot more than that. The clock, Kate in the airduct, the seal that's all over the place (including the shark), the riddle, and the whole "are you him?" question. Then you have the cool seen where Locke slips Kate the knife and all that. I didn't find any of those scenes superfluous, dragging, or annoying in any way.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I disagree. The character is completely two dimensional ("I'm angry! arrghhh!") and I think he is by far the worst actor of the major cast members.

Heh. And I think he is one of the best.

He does a good job of conveying lameness, anger, frustration, impotence, imcompetence and bewilderment all at once. He drives me up the wall while making me empathize with him at the same time...

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Subby

Heh. And I think he is one of the best.

Me too. But then again, I've really liked the guy's acting ever since he was on Oz.

[jamesUMD]

Arts, Artis, or whatever his anem was, was the only awful actor I have seen. I love the show and while this episode was slower, I liked it.

I think of it as a marthon, not a sprint, but it does seem that today's society is really into that instant gratification. I think had this been the 6-8th episode of the season, there would not be as much argument over it. I think after a full offseason, people just have not gotten enough of their fix, so they are on a binge so to speak.

I 2nd that I think that there are multiple groups on the island, and the ones that got Jin are from their flight but have been infected. Desmond did ask how many of them were infected. I also think that Desmond was not alone either and some of his team were also infected (large stores of food, bunk beds, etc, etc.

[timmynausea]

I liked him in Oz, but I'd have to say he comes off as probably the worst character in Lost whether it's due to acting or writing.

[Raiders Army]

Again, your dislike of him means he is doing a good job acting.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

Again, your dislike of him means he is doing a good job acting.

No, it doesn't. I can tell the difference between someone acting so convincngly that I hate them (Philip Seymour Hoffman in The Talented Mr. Ripley, for example) and hating a character because of a combination of bad writing and bad acting. Michael's character is the latter for me.

Again, I'm not complaining about the pace of the show. I'm one of the show's biggest fans, and think it is by far the best drama i have ever seen on network TV. I'm just not into Michael's character or backstory... I think it's easily the weakest of everyone's on the entire show. So for me he makes it a C quality episode, while most others are in the B-A range.

Looking forward to next week.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

I disagree. The character is completely two dimensional ("I'm angry! arrghhh!") and I think he is by far the worst actor of the major cast members.

Really? He's a professional actor and Evangeline is a professional pretty face. Or hadn't you noticed her acting skills yet?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Really? He's a professional actor and Evangeline is a professional pretty face. Or hadn't you noticed her acting skills yet?

She sucks as well, but the character is quite low-key by comparsion. They're playing to her strengths.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by gottimd

Wouldn't that be Kate, since she was the first to go down the shaft but something came up?

Very nice catch. I did not hear her in episode 1, but in episode 2 you know she was yelling for Jack before the music stopped. This is the kind of stuff that I love about Lost.

Originally Posted by rexallllsc

It also seemed to me that the opening scene was daylight shinign through to the bunker, and then there was the explosion...but it was nighttime up above, no? Hmmm. Unless the explosion was a different incident entirely.

This was also cleared up last night when Locke noticed that the sunlight was all artificially done.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

But seeing what happened in the shaft from Locke's perspective was excellent. We know a lot more than that. The clock, Kate in the airduct, the seal that's all over the place (including the shark), the riddle, and the whole "are you him?" question. Then you have the cool seen where Locke slips Kate the knife and all that. I didn't find any of those scenes superfluous, dragging, or annoying in any way.

I enjoy them too - I just think it's annoying because all they're doing is telling the story out of order...

[sovereignstar]

Originally Posted by panerd

Ah... Tivo. Anyone else with Tivo rewind and watch Kate's cleavage in the AC Vent in slo mo. Or am I just too much of a pervert?

You are not a pervert*

*cleavage ensues.. view at your own discretion

[gottimd]

So in the previews next week, it showed them being assaulted by some other people. Not sure if this was discussed yet, but do you think its possible, if you a firm believer that those maybe "The Others", that they are in fact the tail section suvivors who believe Michael, Jin and Sawyer are "The Others" and vice versa?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by gottimd

So in the previews next week, it showed them being assaulted by some other people. Not sure if this was discussed yet, but do you think its possible, if you a firm believer that those maybe "The Others", that they are in fact the tail section suvivors who believe Michael, Jin and Sawyer are "The Others" and vice versa?

I just don't think it will be them because the French lady knew of the others for a long time before they crashed on the island.