EA Sport "NFL HEAD COACH"

[AgustusM]

I'm very excited for this game, I have already pre-ordered and all that..

but I am very disappointed to see this baby in there

- No editing of rosters.

Not that I didn't expect it, EA does seem to have a general philosophical opposition to customization.

[Emiliano]

First of all, thanks EF27 for the infos. I can't access MN at all, I'll probably do it tomorrow morning when you guys are all asleep (well, most of you...).

Very good stuff, I think. I'm not too bothered by the lack of in-game saves (although I wonder why is it so damn difficult to add, given the fact that it's already in Madden since...forever) and I'm liking these interactions with assistants, players and owners. I really hope all this stuff works well, and you influence all these people (and your career, of course) with your decisions.
I also hope they got the management part right, like if you put a player on IR you ACTUALLY gain a roster spot, not only his cap cost...

I got a question then: is the mystery of the "40 draft classes scouted" been solved??? What does this mean? We have a big pool of draftee and they change name/position/height/weight every career you start? If someone has any clarification on this, please post it.

Oh, and speaking of Maddennation (this is only for the 360 guys): have you seen the Madden videos Pastapadre has posted? They look very nice.

[Eaglesfan27]

I've seen the Madden and NCAA 360 videos from Maddennation and OS. They do look VERY nice. I'm going to preorder NCAA soon.

My understanding of the 40 draft classes is that the 1st draft will always be Reggie Bush, Vince Young and company. Each subsequent year will be 1 of the 39 other classes that will appear in a random order. However, say you get class #25, that class will always have guys with the same name, position, height, weight, etc. I haven't seen it clarified anywhere if they will develop differently via an "x-factor" but several places have said they believe this is the case.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by Emiliano

First of all, thanks EF27 for the infos. I can't access MN at all, I'll probably do it tomorrow morning when you guys are all asleep (well, most of you...).

Very good stuff, I think. I'm not too bothered by the lack of in-game saves (although I wonder why is it so damn difficult to add, given the fact that it's already in Madden since...forever) and I'm liking these interactions with assistants, players and owners. I really hope all this stuff works well, and you influence all these people (and your career, of course) with your decisions.
I also hope they got the management part right, like if you put a player on IR you ACTUALLY gain a roster spot, not only his cap cost...

I got a question then: is the mystery of the "40 draft classes scouted" been solved??? What does this mean? We have a big pool of draftee and they change name/position/height/weight every career you start? If someone has any clarification on this, please post it.

Oh, and speaking of Maddennation (this is only for the 360 guys): have you seen the Madden videos Pastapadre has posted? They look very nice.

Since you didn't reply in the BBCF Forum -- MSU is going down!!

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

I'm very excited for this game, I have already pre-ordered and all that..

but I am very disappointed to see this baby in there

- No editing of rosters.

Not that I didn't expect it, EA does seem to have a general philosophical opposition to customization.

I'm surprised. You've been able to edit and create players in Madden for years. Sucks you can't in this game. It won't stop me from buying it, though.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by GrantDawg

I'm surprised. You've been able to edit and create players in Madden for years. Sucks you can't in this game. It won't stop me from buying it, though.

obviously what this means is no "in-game" editing...you know that the database files will be hacked and modded (at least for accurate transfers) very quickly after release...by opening day for sure if not way before. just look at what the EA fans did with mlb 2005 to make it up-to-date

[MizzouRah]

- Assistant Coaches will each have their own philosophy and personality. They will conform to your schemes, but once they leave you they will run their own scheme with wrinkles from your scheme added to their game!

I REALLY like this idea.

I hope the game does well, that should help them add more in depth things for the next version.

[Eaglesfan27]

Just a post from a guy on EAsport's board that I thought was interesting. He made a bad draft day trade if you go buy the NFL value chart. Hopefully, the AI won't accept that deal in reverse. The proficiency with plays as you practice them sounds interesting. Hopefully, there is some time limit to how long you can practice. Very small sample size, but the instructions and their actually being implemented in 3 sounds encouraging. I wish there was some form of team chemistry, but I'd rather their be no team chemistry than poorly implemented team chemistry in this version.

Anyway, here is his post:


I went to E3 today for the first time...WOW! If you ever get a chance to go, do whatever you can get out here to L.A. I got about 30 minutes playing NFLHC with the EA Sports rep right next to me walking me through it. I gotta say, it lived up to my expectations. Here's a basic walkthrough of what I did:

1. Tried the draft. Played around a bit and traded my first overall pick for a mid 1st and 2nd rounder. I figured that it would be anti-climatic to just pick Reggie Bush. I liked having Mel Kiper in there, it provides a great atmosphere. The one thing that bothered me was that there wasn't a trade block for my pick. I had to shop each team individually to find a taker. All the while, the clock is ticking. 5 minutes goes by fast.

2. Tried a practice. Went through a number of drills and plays working different teams. You control both the defense and offense in each drill, so both sides of the ball improve each time you run a play. There is a little meter in the top right hand side of the screen that says "Money Play ##%" that goes up for the play each time you run it representing your team's proficiency at that play. Example: I ran a HB slam against a basic 4-3 cover 2. After the play, it read Money Play 20% HB Slam, Money Play 20% 4- 3 Cover 2. I ran the same offensive play against a nickel cover 2 and it said Money Play 40% HB Slam, 20% 4-3 Cover 2, 20% Nickel Cover 2. This looks like a serious investment in time if you want to work every play to perfection, but, from the other threads I've read, we're a pretty dedicated group and won't mind!

3. Played a game. Chewing out your players is a lot of fun and the strategies that you can give them while on the sidelines are deeper than I could've imagined. The players react to what you tell them and the results on the field are immediate. After getting sacked and going 3 and out, I told Roethlisberger to get rid of it faster and focus on shorter passes and...ouila...a quick out to the TE for 6 yards.

4. Asked some questions.
a. You don't have to play an entire 30 year career to make it into the HOF. There is a continuously updating feature that shows how you stack up against the greats.
b. You can't take your custom playbook on- line for head-to- head...stock plays only.
c. There isn't a team chemistry rating or any other feature that will cause the big impending moves to happen automatically, i.e. TO leaving the Eagles, Culpepper out of Minnesota. The AI controls all the moves and those things may or may not happen. This also means that there are no scripted events...YEAH!

I discussed the game with the guy for quite awhile, as there weren't a lot of folks in line to check it out. It was kind of hidden in Microsoft's enormous XBox display. It was not at the main EA booth (which, by the way, was un-friggin real!) or Sony's booth. I can't think off hand of what else we talked about, but if you think of something, go ahead and ask and I'll tell you if it rings a bell. I'm definitely going back next year!

[jaygr]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

2. Tried a practice. Went through a number of drills and plays working different teams. You control both the defense and offense in each drill, so both sides of the ball improve each time you run a play. There is a little meter in the top right hand side of the screen that says "Money Play ##%" that goes up for the play each time you run it representing your team's proficiency at that play. Example: I ran a HB slam against a basic 4-3 cover 2. After the play, it read Money Play 20% HB Slam, Money Play 20% 4- 3 Cover 2. I ran the same offensive play against a nickel cover 2 and it said Money Play 40% HB Slam, 20% 4-3 Cover 2, 20% Nickel Cover 2. This looks like a serious investment in time if you want to work every play to perfection, but, from the other threads I've read, we're a pretty dedicated group and won't mind!

I'm hoping this part won't be too tedious. Going through practice twice a day got old super quickly in the superstar mode for last years Madden, and you were actually controlling the players then. I wonder how often you will have to practice- will it be twice a day for most days of the week or what? I also wonder if you will be able to sim it, and if so how the results would be compared to if you did it yourself. I am interested to see how they implement this- hopefully it is a little more fun then just Madden's practice mode but without controlling the players.

I understand this game isn't about necessarily about action, but hopefully parts of it won't be tedious either.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by jaygr

I'm hoping this part won't be too tedious. Going through practice twice a day got old super quickly in the superstar mode for last years Madden, and you were actually controlling the players then. I wonder how often you will have to practice- will it be twice a day for most days of the week or what? I also wonder if you will be able to sim it, and if so how the results would be compared to if you did it yourself. I am interested to see how they implement this- hopefully it is a little more fun then just Madden's practice mode but without controlling the players.

I understand this game isn't about necessarily about action, but hopefully parts of it won't be tedious either.

I feel the same way, which is why I'll have to read a lot of reviews before I pick it up. When I played FOF, I was much more the GM than Head Coach. I would set lineups and had a basic idea of what type of offense/defense I wanted to run, and what players would be good for it, but I found the gameplanning and dealing with all the injuries to be too tedious.

If I get this game, it would be for the (hopefully) unique, submersive draft interface, as well as the interaction between HC and front office/staff/players. The rest is just too much for what I'm looking for.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Logan

I feel the same way, which is why I'll have to read a lot of reviews before I pick it up. When I played FOF, I was much more the GM than Head Coach. I would set lineups and had a basic idea of what type of offense/defense I wanted to run, and what players would be good for it, but I found the gameplanning and dealing with all the injuries to be too tedious.

If I get this game, it would be for the (hopefully) unique, submersive draft interface, as well as the interaction between HC and front office/staff/players. The rest is just too much for what I'm looking for.

Ditto for me, although I wish the game had a "shop all teams" option. It's amazing that FPS had stuff like that years ago.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Ditto for me, although I wish the game had a "shop all teams" option. It's amazing that FPS had stuff like that years ago.

I wonder though, IRL, I don't think during the middle of the draft teams will offer a player or pick to all other teams. So in that regard, it may be a bit more realistic the way they are doing it here. In all likelihood, you probably would have one just or two teams as a target to trade with at that point.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by ice4277

I wonder though, IRL, I don't think during the middle of the draft teams will offer a player or pick to all other teams. So in that regard, it may be a bit more realistic the way they are doing it here. In all likelihood, you probably would have one just or two teams as a target to trade with at that point.

I was thinking the same thing. So long as you have some time predraft to trade, I think it's ultra realistic. You can't just announce on the draft floor "We are now accepting deals for the #12 pick, please give us a ring.

You have two or three teams in mind and you call them and see if something pans out. Now pre draft? There should be a trade block.

[MizzouRah]

After I made my post, I thought the same thing in retrospect ice. Although in RL, you could annouce to every team.. "We are entertaining offers for the #1 pick in the draft".

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

This seems like a positive to me. A "complete" bust, a la FOF is too much. A player doesn't suddenly lose potential -- in fact, by definition of potential, he never loses it at all. I guess I think about Joey Harrington or Ryan Leaf -- those guys still had the potential after they've been cast off (which is why teams kept taking chances on Leaf), but they're not approaching that potential as fast as they should. But of course, like you said, it depends on implementation.

This could not be more wrong.

"Potential" is a subjective evaluation of how good a player can become. When teams have a chance to see players more up close and work with them every day, that evaluation can of course change. When a team finds that they evaluated someone way above their actual future ability, and moves that estimate downwards, they have indeed lost potential.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Samdari

This could not be more wrong.

"Potential" is a subjective evaluation of how good a player can become. When teams have a chance to see players more up close and work with them every day, that evaluation can of course change. When a team finds that they evaluated someone way above their actual future ability, and moves that estimate downwards, they have indeed lost potential.

Exactly. The more you see a player play (including practice and games), the more you realize what his potential really is. You can still make mistakes by not utilizing a player right or giving up on a young player to soon, but there are certain busts who are so bad their potential is nearly gone after a year.

One of the things that bothers me from the post Eagles made was the "top 5 picks won't completely bust"

They should bust once in awhile. Part of the NFL is Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Steve Emtman, Andre Wadsworth, Heath Schuler, and Bruce Pickens.

I don't like the idea that a top five pick will never completely miss.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by jaygr

I'm hoping this part won't be too tedious. Going through practice twice a day got old super quickly in the superstar mode for last years Madden, and you were actually controlling the players then. I wonder how often you will have to practice- will it be twice a day for most days of the week or what? I also wonder if you will be able to sim it, and if so how the results would be compared to if you did it yourself. I am interested to see how they implement this- hopefully it is a little more fun then just Madden's practice mode but without controlling the players.

I understand this game isn't about necessarily about action, but hopefully parts of it won't be tedious either.

Yep, after watching the videos, my concern would be there being too much tedium in the daily practices. It's a neat feature but to me has the feel of something that would get very boring quickly. Hopefully there's a way to sim the practices and still get the benefit.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Part of the NFL is Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Steve Emtman, Andre Wadsworth, Heath Schuler, and Bruce Pickens.

Hey now, don't forget Aundray Bruce. I think 1 of 20 1.1 picks should even bust.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Hey now, don't forget Aundray Bruce. I think 1 of 20 1.1 picks should even bust.

I was trying to leave most of the Falcons busts out of it. I thought Pickens was enough mention of their failures.

The '88 draft had another complete disaster too. Drafting toward the end of the first round, the Broncos selected Syracuse NT Ted Gregory.

Gregory was traded to the Saints halfway through traning camp. He played for a year with the Saints before getting dumped from the league. He had one career sack. . . against the Broncos. Ugh.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I don't like the idea that a top five pick will never completely miss.

Neither do I, but I wonder if the guy who wrote it meant 'top 5 prospects as rated per the game', not the literal first five picks. I could pick a guy at #3 who I think is going to be great, but in actuality, the game may have him ranked as the 15-20th best prospect, and could bust.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

They should bust once in awhile. Part of the NFL is Ryan Leaf, Tony Mandarich, Steve Emtman, Andre Wadsworth, Heath Schuler, and Bruce Pickens.

Ugh. I always cringe when I see Emtman's name listed among draft busts. Maybe it's a semantics thing, and it's definitely influenced by me being a huge Husky fan, but I differentiate Emtman from guys like Leaf, Mandarich, Andre Ware, etc. in that Emtman's issue was injuries, not ability. He was having a very good rookie year before blowing out his knee, and might still have been an effective DT if he hadn't then blown out his other knee, and then the first one again.

In FOF terms, I see Emtman as a guy that lost his green and red bars after signficant injuries, not because multiple training camps revealed he was severely over-rated.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Ugh. I always cringe when I see Emtman's name listed among draft busts. Maybe it's a semantics thing, and it's definitely influenced by me being a huge Husky fan, but I differentiate Emtman from guys like Leaf, Mandarich, Andre Ware, etc. in that Emtman's issue was injuries, not ability. He was having a very good rookie year before blowing out his knee, and might still have been an effective DT if he hadn't then blown out his other knee, and then the first one again.

In FOF terms, I see Emtman as a guy that lost his green and red bars after significant injuries, not because multiple training camps revealed he was severely over-rated.

I agree with this

Leaf was a bust because he was a knucklehead, Madrich was a roid monster and Ware, etc were mostly simply overrated.

Emtman is a bust because he didn't turn into a perennial all-pro the way top5 picks are suppose to, but not because of lack of work ethic - more thorough bad luck of injuries.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Ugh. I always cringe when I see Emtman's name listed among draft busts. Maybe it's a semantics thing, and it's definitely influenced by me being a huge Husky fan, but I differentiate Emtman from guys like Leaf, Mandarich, Andre Ware, etc. in that Emtman's issue was injuries, not ability. He was having a very good rookie year before blowing out his knee, and might still have been an effective DT if he hadn't then blown out his other knee, and then the first one again.

In FOF terms, I see Emtman as a guy that lost his green and red bars after signficant injuries, not because multiple training camps revealed he was severely over-rated.

So Ki-jana carter wasnt a bust then, right?

[kcchief19]

There were a lot of questions about drafting busts and how hard players are to develop. In this year's title their aren't any busts per se, but some players will develop better and more quickly than others. What you won't see is a top 5 pick totally wash out even if you did everything 100% correct.

I'm still not sure if I completely understand this. I'm (hopefully) interpretting this to me that players won't necessarily lose their potential (bad), but
won't necessarily develop (good). That's satisfactory, although I wouldn't mind complete busts.

What I fear this means is that a "bust" is a player who will eventually fully develop, just not immediately. That is, the 1st pick in the draft will eventually be a first pick player, it's just that some will be that player right out of the box and others might take 10 years to develop. In essense, there are no Ryan Leafs, just a bunch of Vinny Testaverdes.

[Blade6119]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I'm still not sure if I completely understand this. I'm (hopefully) interpretting this to me that players won't necessarily lose their potential (bad), but
won't necessarily develop (good). That's satisfactory, although I wouldn't mind complete busts.

What I fear this means is that a "bust" is a player who will eventually fully develop, just not immediately. That is, the 1st pick in the draft will eventually be a first pick player, it's just that some will be that player right out of the box and others might take 10 years to develop. In essense, there are no Ryan Leafs, just a bunch of Vinny Testaverdes.

Thats how i read it too

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Blade6119

So Ki-jana carter wasnt a bust then, right?

I didn't pay real close attention to Carter's career and what happened when to him, but I think there's a pretty clear difference between him and Emtman. Maybe Carter was nursing nagging injuries his first two years, but he played in 31 of 32 games his first 2 years and he sucked. Emtman on the other hand did not suck his rookie year before his knee blew out.

[Eaglesfan27]

Some new screenshots (mostly of the coach on the sideline, but a few of players):

http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/10968/...h-Screenshots/

[Groundhog]

First warning bell for me: Game is designed to produce realistic stats on 6 minute quarters.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

First warning bell for me: Game is designed to produce realistic stats on 6 minute quarters.

damn them!!!!

&*^&*^&(%^(&$$%$%$^$$^&

what is so friggin hard about 15 minute quarters with accl clock that works correctly????????

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

First warning bell for me: Game is designed to produce realistic stats on 6 minute quarters.

First warning bell is that EA is making the game.

But this does come in a close second. Do the realistic stats mean the correct amount of plays? Offensive and defensive stats, or only offensive? This is a major, major warning bell.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by TroyF

First warning bell is that EA is making the game.

But this does come in a close second. Do the realistic stats mean the correct amount of plays? Offensive and defensive stats, or only offensive? This is a major, major warning bell.

Very true re: EA.

I was wondering your second point as well. I mean, do they consider 107yds rushing by your running back an accurate statistic if he only does it on half the attempts? I just don't see how you can get a realistic amount of snaps in 6 min quarters.

[Yossarian]

Originally Posted by GroundhogFirst warning bell for me: Game is designed to produce realistic stats on 6 minute quarters.

It's a no-win situation for ea really.

Most (and i mean this by a MASSIVE majority - even including hardcore players like those on this site) players won't play a full 15 min quarter game

most players will want their quarters to be around 6 mins (ish) - and that is why they balance it like this.

[CraigSca]

I see no problem with this, as long as the correct number of plays are run per game. That's why I personally play 8 min quarters in NCAA. If I played with 15 min quarters, I'd be running approximately double the typical amount of plays that a normal game would have.

Now...the question is - do 6 min quarters give you approx. 120 plays per game?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I see no problem with this, as long as the correct number of plays are run per game. That's why I personally play 8 min quarters in NCAA. If I played with 15 min quarters, I'd be running approximately double the typical amount of plays that a normal game would have.

Now...the question is - do 6 min quarters give you approx. 120 plays per game?

That's the key, but I'm not sure how that happens. You have a game where you have a chance to chew out players between timeouts. You can coach specific players to do certain things. Yet somehow time stops during all of this and you are able to have 120 plays?

I hope I'm wrong, but that just doesn't sound good at all.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by TroyF

That's the key, but I'm not sure how that happens. You have a game where you have a chance to chew out players between timeouts. You can coach specific players to do certain things. Yet somehow time stops during all of this and you are able to have 120 plays?

I hope I'm wrong, but that just doesn't sound good at all.

I don't think time stops because I remember someone saying that if you don't call a play while doing sideline stuff then your assist. coach will take over play calling. I'm not sure how they handled it, but I really hope they have reasonable stats and # of plays per game.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Bee

I don't think time stops because I remember someone saying that if you don't call a play while doing sideline stuff then your assist. coach will take over play calling. I'm not sure how they handled it, but I really hope they have reasonable stats and # of plays per game.

This also brings into question how the final 2 minutes of a game are handled.

I guess I cant' say much until the game is released and maybe I'm being to pessimistic, but this is the type of thing I'm worried about. No in game saves so they make the quarters six minutes. EA better not screw this up.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by TroyF

This also brings into question how the final 2 minutes of a game are handled.

This is what my concern about this is too - if the quarters are only 6 minutes and that gives you a realistic amount of total plays then you're obviously able to get in way more plays a minute than you normally should be able to which really is going to eliminate a 2 minute drill if you can call 5 minutes worth of plays in 2 minutes

[scooper]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I didn't pay real close attention to Carter's career and what happened when to him, but I think there's a pretty clear difference between him and Emtman. Maybe Carter was nursing nagging injuries his first two years, but he played in 31 of 32 games his first 2 years and he sucked. Emtman on the other hand did not suck his rookie year before his knee blew out.

Wrong, actually. Ki-Jana Carter ripped his knee to shreds on his first carry of his first pre-season game. He did not play at all his first year. He did play a few seasons beyond that, but his knee was never the same.

It's hard to tell if his career would have been a bust playing behind a terrible offensive line with little skill position help, but his "busting" can just as easily be attributed to injury as Emtman's.

[MalcPow]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

I didn't pay real close attention to Carter's career and what happened when to him, but I think there's a pretty clear difference between him and Emtman. Maybe Carter was nursing nagging injuries his first two years, but he played in 31 of 32 games his first 2 years and he sucked. Emtman on the other hand did not suck his rookie year before his knee blew out.

Carter blew his knee out in the preseason of his rookie year and missed that entire first season. He came back and played 31 of 32 games after that, but as you said, he sucked. It's tough to say what he was really, probably a mix of both of the types of players we're talking about.

EDIT: I should read and post faster...

[MizzouRah]

Maybe I won't get this game afterall. Sheesh... again FPS had accelerated clocks years ago and never had issues with the amount of plays in 15 min quarter games.

I know they have an accelerated clock in Madden, I just have no clue why they can't do something similar and get realistic stats with 15 min accelerated quarters? The text sim community always comes 2nd to joystick jockeys.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Maybe I won't get this game afterall. Sheesh... again FPS had accelerated clocks years ago and never had issues with the amount of plays in 15 min quarter games.

I know they have an accelerated clock in Madden, I just have no clue why they can't do something similar and get realistic stats with 15 min accelerated quarters? The text sim community always comes 2nd to joystick jockeys.

and THIS was supposed to be the one game that wasn't for joystick jockeys!!!

15 min accell clock, and not the one in Madden which is not realistic is what this game needs. This was done 10 friggin years ago in FBPro!!!!

[Eaglesfan27]

I'm still going to get this on release day, but I find the idea of 6 minute quarters giving balanced stats distressing. Hopefully, that was a misunderstanding and 15 minute quarters will really give balanced stats.

[Balldog]

In Madden accel clock still sucks because during the last two minutes of the first half and the game it goes back to normal, allowing way to many plays at the end of the game.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by scooper

Wrong, actually. Ki-Jana Carter ripped his knee to shreds on his first carry of his first pre-season game. He did not play at all his first year. He did play a few seasons beyond that, but his knee was never the same.

It's hard to tell if his career would have been a bust playing behind a terrible offensive line with little skill position help, but his "busting" can just as easily be attributed to injury as Emtman's.

Like I said, I didn't pay close attention to Carter's career. Given that info, I'd say there are similarities to Emtman in that it's hard to evaluate how much of his suckiness in the NFL was due to injury and how much was due to being over-rated. The one difference here is that Emtman had (I believe) 9 games in his rookie season before he had his first knee blowout, and he was pretty damn good for those first 9 games.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Like I said, I didn't pay close attention to Carter's career. Given that info, I'd say there are similarities to Emtman in that it's hard to evaluate how much of his suckiness in the NFL was due to injury and how much was due to being over-rated. The one difference here is that Emtman had (I believe) 9 games in his rookie season before he had his first knee blowout, and he was pretty damn good for those first 9 games.

I hate to break it to you, but the GM that picked Emtman looks back on that pick and says the same thing that the GM's say when they look back on Andrew Ware, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich, etc:

$%#$#^%$#$#%$#%#&&$&!!!!!!

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I hate to break it to you, but the GM that picked Emtman looks back on that pick and says the same thing that the GM's say when they look back on Andrew Ware, Akili Smith, Tony Mandarich, etc:

$%#$#^%$#$#%$#%#&&$&!!!!!!

Sure he does - he didn't get the expected value out of that pick he'd hoped for. However, that's not my point - Emtman didn't provide expected value for that pick, but was it because he was simply over-rated by the Colts front office and just didn't have the ability they thought he did, or was his career derailed because of bad luck with injuries? His performance his rookie year prior to blowing out his knee suggests that he had good ability and was a productive player. That's not the case with guys like Ware, Smith and Mandarich.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Sure he does - he didn't get the expected value out of that pick he'd hoped for. However, that's not my point - Emtman didn't provide expected value for that pick, but was it because he was simply over-rated by the Colts front office and just didn't have the ability they thought he did, or was his career derailed because of bad luck with injuries? His performance his rookie year prior to blowing out his knee suggests that he had good ability and was a productive player. That's not the case with guys like Ware, Smith and Mandarich.

I see your position more clearly than I did before. Touche.

[redfox000]

Does anybody know if there are QB audibiles? For example, if I am the coach of the Colts and I tell Manning to run play X, is he able to read the defense and call an audible for play Y by himself? This would be a cool feature.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by redfox000

Does anybody know if there are QB audibiles? For example, if I am the coach of the Colts and I tell Manning to run play X, is he able to read the defense and call an audible for play Y by himself? This would be a cool feature.

I agree that would be GREAT - especially if the better QB's called more and better audibles AND you could encourage or discourage your QB to call them via the "talk to" feature.

Unfortunately I thought I read that it was more like Madden where the coach calls them which is not at all realistic.

[redfox000]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

Unfortunately I thought I read that it was more like Madden where the coach calls them which is not at all realistic.

I agree. Especially since Manning pretty much calls all his plays already.