NCAA Football 2007

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

You still playing EA Head Coach?

Ouch.

[CraigSca]

Stop causing problems.



YES!

[jbmagic]

I bought Ea Head Coach too

I stop playing it after one week

Not causing problems.

[rexallllsc]

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I keep talking myself out of and into buying this.

I wish I could decide.

Me too. I have a feeling I'm going to get it, but probably just for traditions sake.

However, if I don't it'll be because I'm pissed that the 360 version will cost more, yet offer less.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

And you know...here's why, ultimately, we may always be disappointed in these games. Has anyone happened to login to the MaddenMania or MaddenNation boards? Besides the obligatory, "omg, dood - Joe Blow has the game already" there are also many post about some of the recently released videos. Now, when I watch these videos I'm looking for clues on gameplay and realism. What are THESE people talking about? The following:

1) Create-a-player (something I have no interest in)
2) Damn it, they got Ohio State's facemask color wrong again!
3) Does anyone know if they'll have clear visors this year?
4) When you create a new school, does anyone know if there are new logos this year?

and so on and so on.

Mind you, it's not about running backs who drop the ball in the flat, or the fact that your offensive lineman are automatically the best in the nation because the game incorrectly gives them too many pancakes. Doods, it's all about uniforms and making sure the color of the player's shoelaces is realistic.

It's the nature of that board though. It's really just a bunch of kids who are more interested in the 70-63 shootout online than a real football game. Unfortunately for many of us, this is the demographic EA targets.

[Izulde]

I may have to pick up the current-gen then... Much as I'd like to pick up the 360 version, the skimping on features for the next-gen means it's XBox for me.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It's the nature of that board though. It's really just a bunch of kids who are more interested in the 70-63 shootout online than a real football game. Unfortunately for many of us, this is the demographic EA targets.

While I generally agree with you, there are a lot of 30-40 year olds asking, for example, why the numbers all had black outlines in last year's create-a-team. It's amazing how much airtime topics like that get over there.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

It's amazing people come up with house rules like these for a console game.

Actually, I look at this the other way. Having to do things yourself to make a console game more realistic is not surprising since they are not based around realism. I am MUCH more surprised that many text-based sims require a number of house rules. After all, those are the games that are based on supposedly providing the most realistic results.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Ouch.

heh...I love it when jbmagic throws the smack down.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

You still playing EA Head Coach?

Yes, although it gets the least of my playing time right now.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Actually, I look at this the other way. Having to do things yourself to make a console game more realistic is not surprising since they are not based around realism. I am MUCH more surprised that many text-based sims require a number of house rules. After all, those are the games that are based on supposedly providing the most realistic results.

Maybe I'm in the minority.. but there is not one text sim I play that I use house rules.

[Grammaticus]

It appears the EA target audience is pretty much as everyone has indicated, youngsters that want to see crazy graphics, celebrations, jukes, lots of TDs and definitely the long ball as that has been a game play weakness in every version.

The question is, why doesn't someone develop a realistic based sim that features strong graphics as well? There is a market for that too. Is the Economy of the process against this? How many units do you have to sell to make a decent profit? Right now there is a vacuum in the market as EA has the only College and Pro game in town, that features graphics. Would it not be profitable for someone to release this type of game?

If you sold 100,000 units at $50 a pop, it would generate a gross of 5 Million. How much does it cost to develop and market one of these games. Keeping in mind the marketing cost would be based on a realistic plan. Meaning your not going to dump the dollars EA does into marketing. Your not trying to beat their game in the market, its a different type of game you are delivering.

The first person that directs me to the Fooked up Maximum Football can go pound sand

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

It appears the EA target audience is pretty much as everyone has indicated, youngsters that want to see crazy graphics, celebrations, jukes, lots of TDs and definitely the long ball as that has been a game play weakness in every version.

The question is, why doesn't someone develop a realistic based sim that features strong graphics as well? There is a market for that too. Is the Economy of the process against this? How many units do you have to sell to make a decent profit? Right now there is a vacuum in the market as EA has the only College and Pro game in town, that features graphics. Would it not be profitable for someone to release this type of game?

If you sold 100,000 units at $50 a pop, it would generate a gross of 5 Million. How much does it cost to develop and market one of these games. Keeping in mind the marketing cost would be based on a realistic plan. Meaning your not going to dump the dollars EA does into marketing. Your not trying to beat their game in the market, its a different type of game you are delivering.

The first person that directs me to the Fooked up Maximum Football can go pound sand

Think about this. Madden has somewhere around 25 developers on their staff. They probably range in salary from $50k-150k is my guess... so even if let's say the average is 100k, that's 250k right there. Then you have various other talent you're paying - beta testers, models for the animations, scouts to investigate football, football consultants, etc, etc. Then you have equipment (PC's, motion capture equipment), building space, marketing, production of the CD's, etc.

I would think that selling 100k units at $50 a pop to develop a game equal to madden in graphics/playability but with the realism would not make 100k units worth it.

We've had this discussion in another thread, but I just don't think there are enough people that want what we want to make it a smart business decision to make a quality game. If you want far inferior graphics, maybe then...

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

EGM review for the 360 version is out:

Quote:
The three reviewers rate it 7.0, 7.5, and 7.0 respectively. Their major gripes include what we've all been expecting. The next gen game lacks several of the current gen features, there's the occasional shotty collision detection, the game seems biased towards offense, and apparently the momentum meter serves absolutely no purpose on next gen, as the reviewers have yet to see its effect on gameplay.



As I recall, EGM never has much in the reviews department.. except maybe a few lines of what they think about it, so take it FWIW. People are freaking out over at OS though.

I actually do not see anything in this review that we did not already know. They are leaving out some features, non of which I care about except the spring game. Too much offense, how does that differ from any other version of the game or the version for xbox and ps2 for this release? Shoddy collusion detection, again how does this differ from the other versions? The momentum piece not having an effect, thank goodness. That means they did not screw it up by making it too stupid.

I actually think the 360 version has a chance of being more realistic than the xbox/ps2 versions. Dynasty is as solid as the other versions and the graphics are astoundingly better. It all comes down to who has a more realistic game play version. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on that one.

Personally, I do not see how anyone could even consider buying an xbox version when you have a 360. But, to each his own.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Think about this. Madden has somewhere around 25 developers on their staff. They probably range in salary from $50k-150k is my guess... so even if let's say the average is 100k, that's 250k right there. Then you have various other talent you're paying - beta testers, models for the animations, scouts to investigate football, football consultants, etc, etc. Then you have equipment (PC's, motion capture equipment), building space, marketing, production of the CD's, etc.

I would think that selling 100k units at $50 a pop to develop a game equal to madden in graphics/playability but with the realism would not make 100k units worth it.

We've had this discussion in another thread, but I just don't think there are enough people that want what we want to make it a smart business decision to make a quality game. If you want far inferior graphics, maybe then...

I'm guessing that you are at least partially correct, the cost must be either prohibitive or at least a barrier of some sort. It is just odd that Football is the most marketable sport in the US. I saw in the Wall Street Journal the NFL was the most marketable franchise of pro sports. I think that tells you that football is popular.

There used to be several football games offered each year, now there are not. You have Madden / NCAA by EA sports and then the text sims. But you still have a hand full of graphics based hockey games, soccer games, basketball games, baseball games, etc. Maybe a lot of those sell better on the global scale, but is that really what keeps 4 or 5 soccer games released in the US? Somebody is paying to develop and sell those games and they must be making a profit or they would not continue to do it.

It just does not make sense, I'm curious of what the development costs really are. Is it economically a bad move due to an inability to make a profit. Or are game designers just using resources elsewhere believing they will make an even better profit off something else?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I'm guessing that you are at least partially correct, the cost must be either prohibitive or at least a barrier of some sort. It is just odd that Football is the most marketable sport in the US. I saw in the Wall Street Journal the NFL was the most marketable franchise of pro sports. I think that tells you that football is popular.

There used to be several football games offered each year, now there are not. You have Madden / NCAA by EA sports and then the text sims. But you still have a hand full of graphics based hockey games, soccer games, basketball games, baseball games, etc. Maybe a lot of those sell better on the global scale, but is that really what keeps 4 or 5 soccer games released in the US? Somebody is paying to develop and sell those games and they must be making a profit or they would not continue to do it.

It just does not make sense, I'm curious of what the development costs really are. Is it economically a bad move due to an inability to make a profit. Or are game designers just using resources elsewhere believing they will make an even better profit off something else?

fwiw, most of those soccer games (I think all but the ones made by EA) are developed outside of the US.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by wade moore

fwiw, most of those soccer games (I think all but the ones made by EA) are developed outside of the US.

Actually, the EA one is developed in Canada.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Actually, the EA one is developed in Canada.

Rephrase: Developed by non-US companies. Since Gramm was confused as to why so much money goes into multiple soccer games.

[Grammaticus]

Originally Posted by wade moore

fwiw, most of those soccer games (I think all but the ones made by EA) are developed outside of the US.

That makes sense, I’m assuming they make money in the US or they would not continue to release them there. Although, I’m also assuming it is the same game as released elsewhere with English language and the correct DVD format.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

That makes sense, I’m assuming they make money in the US or they would not continue to release them there. Although, I’m also assuming it is the same game as released elsewhere with English language and the correct DVD format.

Don't know on that one or the costs involved in making any necessary conversions.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

I actually do not see anything in this review that we did not already know. They are leaving out some features, non of which I care about except the spring game. Too much offense, how does that differ from any other version of the game or the version for xbox and ps2 for this release? Shoddy collusion detection, again how does this differ from the other versions? The momentum piece not having an effect, thank goodness. That means they did not screw it up by making it too stupid.

I actually think the 360 version has a chance of being more realistic than the xbox/ps2 versions. Dynasty is as solid as the other versions and the graphics are astoundingly better. It all comes down to who has a more realistic game play version. As far as I'm concerned the jury is still out on that one.

Personally, I do not see how anyone could even consider buying an xbox version when you have a 360. But, to each his own.

True.. but we all know EA is going for the "oohhh.. graphics" in the 360 version, so we'll see.

We all also know that they will sell 1,000's more copies for the ps2 and Xbox than the 360, so I can see why in this version, those two systems got the attention.

[wade moore]

Fortunately, I haven't bought a 360 yet. I'm giving sony a chance and I'm not compelled to buy the 360 just for NCAA/Madden as I'm not convinced that it will be that much better, if better at all. So I'll do my football on the PS2 this year and then make a decision next year.

[biological warrior]

What exactly are the improvements of this years game as compared with last years?

[Kodos]

New rosters! Clear facemasks! Lifelike jerseys!

[Grammaticus]

In the end, pretty much just the spring game.

[digamma]

First time in 10 years I won't purchase this game.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Fortunately, I haven't bought a 360 yet. I'm giving sony a chance and I'm not compelled to buy the 360 just for NCAA/Madden as I'm not convinced that it will be that much better, if better at all. So I'll do my football on the PS2 this year and then make a decision next year.

Agreed with you.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

In the end, pretty much just the spring game.

Key Features for PlayStation 2 and Xbox:

• All-New Momentum System -- Capitalize on your window of opportunity as big plays, defensive stops, trick plays, and special teams keep you in a constant struggle for momentum.
• Back to School -- Excel in the classroom to improve your overall character, and then balance your time wisely between studies, practice, and social events as you live the life of a Student Athlete.
• All-New Spring Game -- Determine your depth chart in Dynasty Mode and decide whether to red-shirt incoming blue chip freshmen by evaluating their performances in the annual spring game.
• New Spring Drills -- Hone your skills with 11 new and challenging mini-games focusing on all aspects of the game, including Rush the Quarterback, Passing Distance, and more.
• New Ways to Play -- Utilize new gameplay mechanics like Jump the Snap, Slide Protection, Smart Routes, Defensive Hot Routes, and Precision Passing to gain every advantage over your rivals.
• All-New ESPN Integration -- Get the latest sports news with real-time updates from ESPN Radio, and track all your latest Dynasty information via ESPN the Magazine and ESPN.com.

There are also 30% more plays to each teams playbooks and special trick plays. They also supposedly have blocked punts and extra points this time around.

[MizzouRah]

A user named whipsmart77 has been confirmed to have the game and is posting some impressions for the ps2 version.

I like what I've read so far:

Have played through one season of Campus Legend, with a fair number of random Play Now games thrown in.

Have played the majority of my games on Heisman, and this is where I've been blown away. Heisman on current-gen NCAA 2007 exhibits, by far, the most impressive AI level I've ever seen in an EA game. And it does it in a fair fashion. Ok maybe the D-line of the CPU is still a little strong, but to give you an idea, I averaged 5 yards a carry with a long of 53 yards with a regular ole' non-impact back. Threw for about 3 thousand yards with 19 tds and 17 ints with a great QB. I improved in the INTs as the year went on, but the CPU can put the clamps on when it counts. Completed 63 pct of my passes (191 of 302 or something).

You will still see bombs, but it is MUCH more like '04 where you feel as if you have a shot at almost every deep ball.

The mid-range passing game is completely fixed. Flares, arrows, hitches - they all work again and can be broken for big YAC if you're lucky.

Sliding protection is essential. I took like 32 sacks on the season. It was too late before i really started doing this.

Helping commit your D to run or pass is essential as well (with the R stick as soon as the ball is hiked). The CPU will TEAR you up through the air if you just ignore impact players and stay in the same couple coverages and don't concentrate on the pass.

The hit stick is pure joy in this game.

As OSU, I had a nice variety and range of games. Everything fell well within the boundaries of realism except for ONE game, where the Indiana QB lit me up completely (like 21 of 34 for 450 and 6 tds) in a 59-34 loss. Other results were 21-10 loss to Texas, 27-17 loss to Michigan, 31-20 win over Iowa, etc. Some nice touches - Hart ran 27 for 136 on me. I forced Iowa QB Tate to start 6 of 14 with 3 INTs and he got yanked. Backup QB almost got them the win.

There were a lot of frustrating moments but I mean that in the best possible way. I always wanted to know why I couldn't just "lock down" the other team's receivers - well, it's because I have a young inexperienced D and I need to play perfect on almost every play to stop 'em. Getting defensive stands was one of the best feelings in the game.

As an aside, All-American level plays a pretty good game too, but if you are good at manually catching, adjusting WRs routes to cut off DBs, you can really work this level. Hell you can do it on Heisman a lot too, but you get popped and drop the ball much more often.

The big play, turn the tide, kicking game stuff - I dunno, I blocked a couple kicks. All the trick plays I tried once with mixed results. Not the biggest deal to me. More on Campus Legend, ratings, and other questions later. What I can say right now is, no matter how 360 turns out (and I am a 360 owner), current-gen NCAA has me feeling pretty damn good, and you should start to prep for a killer season of college football.

[MizzouRah]

More ps2 impressions:

A few questions:

1. Does the CPU still wait until your RB/QB is two or three yards past the LOS to come up and make the tackle?

NO

2. Do the WRs still glide across the field to catch a pass that is waaay out in front of them?

SEEN THIS A FEW TIMES

3. Do the user QBs still throw passes ten yards in front of the WR right to a DB?

NO UNLESS BEING DRILLED AS THROWING

4. Do the user-controlled DBs still move AWAY from the ball when you try to go up and make a pick (allowing the CPU WR to make a big play)?

DEPENDS ON POSITIONING BUT I WOULD SAY MOSTLY NO

5. On defense, can you move players around pre-snap or is it like Madden where the second you click to the next player the CPU moves them back to their original spot?

SEEMS MIXED BUT EVERYTIME I TRY AND BRING A SAFETY DOWN AND SWITCH OFF THEY START MOVING BACK

6. Since you're using the Bucks, does Teddy Ginn feel like a constant breakaway threat like real life, or is it like previous years in NCAA where an 80-speed OLB can get an angle on him down the sidelines?

CONSTANT BREAKAWAY THREAT, EVEN ON HEISMAN. NOTHING BETTER THAN CATCHING A 4-YARD PASS AT THE OPP. 35-yard line, SPIN, JUKE IN BETWEEN TRAILING DB AND SAFETY, AND GONE. ALSO HAVE TAKEN MANY WR SCREENS TO THE HOUSE.

7. How is the precision passing? Can you finally throw the fade to the corner of the end zone from inside the five?

IT'S GOOD. YES.

8. Do the CPU quarterbacks still throw flare routes to their running backs that results in a four yard loss because the back didn't turn upfield?

NOT REALLY. MUCH BETTER HERE.

9. Can defenders still cover both the quarterback and the pitch man on the option?

EHH... MOSTLY NO.

10. How is the Campus Legend mode? Any details you'd like to provide?

STILL HAVE BOWL GAME TO PLAY. HAVE HAD A BLAST SO FAR.

[wade moore]

Questions #3 and #4 are further proof to me that these kids don't like realism.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

What is "shotty" collision detection? Isn't it supposed to be "shoddy"? I'll respect your review when you respect it enough to spellcheck, EG.

Ditto.

[Eaglesfan27]

Cool info, Todd. Hopefully, some of that also applies to the 360 version, also. I'm going to pick it up during my lunchbreak next Tuesday. Can't wait to get home next Tuesday night from work.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Cool info, Todd. Hopefully, some of that also applies to the 360 version, also.

Ditto... I'm hoping EA realizes that it can't piss too much on the 360 crowd or else they'll find when it becomes 'current gen' they'll have less fans than they thought.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Ditto... I'm hoping EA realizes that it can't piss too much on the 360 crowd or else they'll find when it becomes 'current gen' they'll have less fans than they thought.

C'mon ISiddiqui, this is EA we're talking about.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Ditto... I'm hoping EA realizes that it can't piss too much on the 360 crowd or else they'll find when it becomes 'current gen' they'll have less fans than they thought.

With all the exclusive licenses, EA doesn't have to really improve anything or make things better for the next gen crowd because there's no competition. Which is a shame, because I always felt just the presence of the Sega College Football game (Gamebreaker, I think it was called) made EA create massive improvement.

Even though I don't like Microsoft or the X-Box, I'll admit those screenshots for this game on the 360 look gorgeous.

[Raiders Army]

Gamebreaker was Sony's title. Unfortunately I can't remember Sega's game.

[bronconick]

They had an NCAA 2k for Dreamcast, IIRC. Buggy, flawed and inferior to the EA series at that point, but at least it was competition.

[MizzouRah]

Sounds like the sim stats are fixed as well as the pancakes, woo hoo!!

A quick glance through QB stats seems to show a fixed stat engine.

Cal #9 - 28 TDs, 14 INTs
Cincy #4 - 14 TDs, 17 INTs
Clemson #10 - 20 TDs, 10 INTs
FSU #11 - 27 TDs, 15 INTs, 61 pct. completion
Lousiville #12 - 30 TDs, 14 INTs, 61 pct completion
LSU #4 - 25 TDs, 8 INTs, 66 pct completion
Marshall #14 - 31 TDs, 17 INTs 55 pct completion
Maryland #14 - 25 TDs, 15 INTs 54 pct completion
ND #10 - 36 TDs, 14 INTs, 66 pct completion
Pitt #3 - 16 TDs, 12 INTs, 55 pct.
Texas #5 - 22 TDs, 15 INTs, 53 pct.
Va Tech #7 - 21 TDs, 19 INTs, 57 pct.
Wake Forest #13 - 7 TDs, 21 INTs, 43 pct. LOL
West Va #5 - 25 TDs and 2 INTs, 62 pct. damnnn

Arizona State #9 and Nebraska #13 both threw for 40+ tds and INTs in the teens with pct. in the low 60s. Those were the only truly eye popping stats I saw, and the ASU guy won the Heiz.

Rushing - Some dude from Auburn #23 ran 290 times for 2017 yards 6.9 avg and 17 tds.

Somebody asked about pancakes...the top O-lineman had like 32 for the year. My best dude had 20. So doesn't seem too bad.

I think I'm going to go down and pre-order this puppy from Gamestop tomorrow on my way home from work.

[jbmagic]

The main problem with pancakes was when you play out the games you get a lot more than the sim stats for pancakes.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

With all the exclusive licenses, EA doesn't have to really improve anything or make things better for the next gen crowd because there's no competition. Which is a shame, because I always felt just the presence of the Sega College Football game (Gamebreaker, I think it was called) made EA create massive improvement.

It was a dream dammit... stop bursting my bubbles .

(Stupid EA)

[SirFozzie]

Interesting, the local gamestop is having a NCAA tournament on the 15th. I think I'll go... maybe they can be convinced to break street and hand me my copy

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Sounds like the sim stats are fixed as well as the pancakes, woo hoo!!



I think I'm going to go down and pre-order this puppy from Gamestop tomorrow on my way home from work.

More excellent news. I can't imagine them fixing the sim engine on the current gen versions, and having it messed up on the 360. Only 7 days away.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Interesting, the local gamestop is having a NCAA tournament on the 15th. I think I'll go... maybe they can be convinced to break street and hand me my copy

Mine is as well. They automatically entered me into it when I preordered. I'm not sure if I'll make it yet.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

The main problem with pancakes was when you play out the games you get a lot more than the sim stats for pancakes.

He's going to note them in the next game he plays.

[Grammaticus]

Six days!

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

More excellent news. I can't imagine them fixing the sim engine on the current gen versions, and having it messed up on the 360. Only 7 days away.

This is EA we are talking about Dr. Eaglesfan27.

[SlyBelle1]

Sounds like 360 demo being released sometime tonight according to OS and MaddenNation......

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by SlyBelle1

Sounds like 360 demo being released sometime tonight according to OS and MaddenNation......

Oh, that would kick so much ass .

[dervack]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Oh, that would kick so much ass .

Damn. I have to work tonight. Looks like a late night when I get home tonight.