Alright boyz, here we go!!! OOTP2006 First Impressions Thread! - Page 9

Qrusher14242 · 06-01-2006, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Huh? You mean in a single season? Is it really that bad that you can't get more than 255 RBI in a year?

Well just seems like this was a good of time as ever to get rid of the limitation. His excuse before was because of his archaic codebase. Now if i choose to run a PCL league, which runs 200 games, im gonna have guys that might challenge that.

aran · 06-01-2006, 09:59 PM

Perhaps try simming 20 years tonight, Troy? That would give us a reasonable chunk of data and probably wouldn't be as monstrous to generate reports for. One full generation of players should be enough to check for anything glaring.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

I'm just getting my info off of the in game "catobase" tracker.

But you can't upload that can you?

My goal here is to upload reports so everyone can pick through them. I belive I have to create an export to do that.

Qrusher14242 · 06-01-2006, 10:02 PM

Arent the reports huge? The ones they had on the site earlier were 700mb.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aran

Perhaps try simming 20 years tonight, Troy? That would give us a reasonable chunk of data and probably wouldn't be as monstrous to generate reports for. One full generation of players should be enough to check for anything glaring.

That may be what I have to do. Ugh.

I'll give it a little more time and if it doesn't finish up, I'll close up shop, pick about 10 or 15 players at random and give a brief synopsis of their careers. Then I'll run 20 seasons tonight and try to get them uploaded in the AM.

I really wanted you guys to be able to go through this.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qrusher14242

Arent the reports huge? The ones they had on the site earlier were 700mb.

You can alter the size of them, but it looks bad for me in this case. I didn't edit them enough. Ick.

kcchief19 · 06-01-2006, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaril

This is odd since I thought the engine was rewritten and wasn't using the code base my mistake I guess. Anyways, this is one reason, the vast difference between baseball in the MLB (US) and soccer in Europe as it relates to interaction among teams and leagues. In Europe as with most things there is a "free" flow of talent across national borders from different teams and leagues. In the Major Leagues, many players come from the Domincan Republic/PR, some from Cuba , a few out of Venezuala and Columbia plus about 20 players from Japan/Korea. That's it. There shouldn't be 150 players from Italy showing up in the Majors or MLB minors for that matter.

After reading Bee's comment, I thought a more eloquent way of expressing my observation wa to address the way teams interact from one league to another. Based on my limited impression of soccer, my feeling is that the way teams behave in OOTP2k6 is more similar to the way teams interact in FM and even real life soccer than they do in real life MLB.

I haven't ready a lot about the "vision" of OOTP. It's quite possible that this is exactly how Markus et al. intended it to work and were not intending to mirror real life Major League Baseball.

I rarely take at face value a claim that sim engine has been completely rewritten. There are plenty of elements of this version of the game that seem to have ancestry in either earlier versions of OOTP or other SI games, including look and feel and game design. However, I think it's interesting that the game seems to have more in common with 6.13 than 6.5 -- features like 7-day lineups and the expanded almanac with things like the milestone list didn't make it over. That seems odd to me, since those features seemed to be enthusiastically well received in 6.5.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 10:30 PM

OK, here we go. I'm picking some of the all time greats first, then I'm going to pick some players at random. If you want to throw something out like "MVP in 1943" or starting 3B of Pitt in 1917, I'll post a brief synopsis of their careers along with anything goofy I find.

I'm going to start with the career HR and RBI leader:

Juan Castanado. He was born in San Juan in 1934.

He finished with these career numbers:

8340 at bats, 2212 hits, 440 doubles, 27 triples, 592 HR, 1724 RBI, 966 BB, 1246 K, 30 SB. .265/.338/.537

His best year saw him thump 65 HR, 185 RBI and slug .686.

Juan was drafted by Minnesota in the 1953 draft. He was the fifth pick of the second round, 35th overall.

He had a few terrfic years in the minors before moving up to the show for good in 1957. Juan went nuts right away, smacking 51 homers and driving in 152 his first year. He played for Minnesota in the majors from 1957 to 1962 and had the monster HR year in 1961.

In November of '62, he signed a monster 6 year, 85 million dollar contract with Florida. (I didn't touch the financials at all, I'm pretty sure we were on 2006 financials throughout, my bad)

Then things get strange. All the guy does for Florida is hit around 40 HR a year for three seasons. His last year wtih them, he has 61.9 VORP, and hits 42 HR with 114 RBI. He's 31 years of age at this point.

Well, in the fall of that year, he gets picked up off of waivers by Tampa Bay. Yes, you read that right. He has two great years for Tampa before it all goes to hell. In his FA year, he hits a palter .204 with 22 HR.

Cleveland takes a chance on him in 1969 and it pays off. He has a terrific comeback year, hitting 29 HR and driving in 119. His last year with Cleveland is fairly poor and we see the end is getting close for our HR King.

He's signed by Toronto that offseason and is assigned to their triple A club. He spends the next three years bounding around minor league clubs, hitting his last HR for Florida in 1972.

The power hitting first baseman led the league in HR six times, finished in the top 5 another five times beyond that.

DaddyTorgo · 06-01-2006, 10:43 PM

whoa. the fact he ended up on waivers is not good.

Buccaneer · 06-01-2006, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Based on my limited impression of soccer, my feeling is that the way teams behave in OOTP2k6 is more similar to the way teams interact in FM and even real life soccer than they do in real life MLB.

Baseball is not soccer. Didn't I say that before?

Buccaneer · 06-01-2006, 10:46 PM

Couldn't you have turned waivers off?

SunDevil · 06-01-2006, 10:52 PM

When you start turning features off in order for the game to work correctly, then you have OOTP 6.15. Which is kind of sad considering they supposedly rewrote the game.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 10:53 PM

Next I'm going to go with our 312 win man:

Clint von Vormann. The left handed starting pitcher was born on November 24, 1930.

Career Numbers: 619 starts, 312-173, 3.05 ERA. 4412 IP, 3699 Hits, 1396 BB, 3726 K. 7+ innings per start.

His career year saw him go 26-5 with a 2.08 ERA in 1962.

Clint was the second player picked in the 1948 draft by St. Louis. He mad his major league debut in 1949, going 5-2 with a 2.47 ERA in 8 starts. His rookie year wasn't quite so kind. He started 35 games, winning 16 and having an ERA of 4.82 in 1950.

He won 20 games for the first time in 1952. He pitched in the bigs with the Cardinals from 1949 to 1957.

In June of '57, Clint signed a 4 year 53 million dollar extension with the Cardinals. He had some injury trouble the second half of that season and had two long stints on the DL with ligament trouble. Evidently, St. Louis decided they'd made a mistake, because at the winter meetings that year, they shipped him to Texas.

He was traded for RF Bob Thomson (an aging vet who would play one year with the Cardinals), RF Paco Fidal (a solid prospect who had his career derailed by injuries), RF Turner Kurtz (another very solid prospect who was derailed by injuries. He tore a rib cage in spring training and missed his entire first year with the Cardinals. He had just finished a wonderful stint in AAA where he stole 29 bases in 60 games) and 3 million in cash.

The Cardinals worries about his injuries were unfounded. Clint finished his career with the Rangers. He pitched 12 years for them, with two minor injuries. In 1964 he was limited to 16 starts due to a variety of ailments.
His last full year was 1968, where he went 11-16 with a 3.74 ERA.

The 1969 season was a disaster. He strained his knee during his first start and missed two weeks. He had a rehab stint of four starts at AAA before being recalled. He lasted four more starts in the majors and was pitching horribly. (6.87 ERA)

Fate stpped in at this point. . . before the Rangers had to make the call to cut him, he ruptured a disc in his back on June 12, 1969.

He retired in Septermber of that year and was inducted into the baseball hall of fame.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Couldn't you have turned waivers off?

I wanted to be as default as I could with the settings. I can promise you, after seeing that, waivers WILL be turned off for any serious dynasty I start to play.

SunDevil · 06-01-2006, 10:56 PM

How many more versions of this game do we have to turn off waivers in order to get realistic results?

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil

How many more versions of this game do we have to turn off waivers in order to get realistic results?

25.

SunDevil · 06-01-2006, 11:01 PM

TroyF,

Thanks for taking the time to post this info, I look forward to looking at your 20 year league history output.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SunDevil

TroyF,

Thanks for taking the time to post this info, I look forward to looking at your 20 year league history output.

No problem. I'm going to run that tomorrow and get it posted tomorrow night. I'll do a couple of more guys tonight for kicks.

Issues I'm still seeing:

Pitchers are still playing the field.
Waivers is irrepriably broken. No possible way to fix it IMHO.
Many great hitters end their career in the minor leagues, this just shouldn't happen.
Hitters tend to just fall off the map. One day they can hit, the next day they can't. I'm seeing a lot of .274 one year, .249 the next, minors the next, gone soon after.

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 11:24 PM

Last guy for tonight. I have to share this, because I find this guys career fascinating:

In every career sim, you look at one or two players and think "what could have been. . ."

In this one, the guy who jumps out at me is named Kane Bucknell.

Kane was drafted in teh second round by the Dodgers in 1958. He was the 48th overall pick.

He pitched for the rookie league team that year and did so/so, going 7-3 with a 4.06 ERA in 12 starts.

He spent the next year in the PCL and flat out dominated. 199 K's in 163 innings. The Dodgers called him up for a cup of coffee late in 1959 and we'd see the beginning of one of the greates 8 year stretches in the history of baseball.

He went 3-0 that fall. He struck out 31 in 30 innings, walking only 5.

The following seven years are the stuff legends are made of. The highest ERA of his MLB career would happen his last year in 1966. The ERA? 2.03.

After the terrific fall in 59, he took the majors by storm. In 1960 he went 22-3 with a 1.42 ERA. In 228 innings he allowed 123 hits, walked 43 and struck out 258 batters.

His WHIP line looks like this for his 8 year career: .82, .73, .86, 1.06, .80, .93, .88, 1.07

For his career, he tossed 1426 innings, allowed 919 hits, 355 BB and struck out 1495 batters.

His one problem was with injuries. He always had a nick here and a nick there. He had very little endurance and it showed. In September of 1966, after another pitcher of the month award, he blew his arm out and his career came to an instant halt.

The most dominant pitcher in the history of the league would be forced into early retirement.

GoSeahawks · 06-01-2006, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

The most dominant pitcher in the history of the league would be forced into early retirement.

I don't know why, but this is the stuff that makes me love text sims.

Huckleberry · 06-01-2006, 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Last guy for tonight. I have to share this, because I find this guys career fascinating:

In every career sim, you look at one or two players and think "what could have been. . ."

In this one, the guy who jumps out at me is named Kane Bucknell.

Kane was drafted in teh second round by the Dodgers in 1958. He was the 48th overall pick.

He pitched for the rookie league team that year and did so/so, going 7-3 with a 4.06 ERA in 12 starts.

He spent the next year in the PCL and flat out dominated. 199 K's in 163 innings. The Dodgers called him up for a cup of coffee late in 1959 and we'd see the beginning of one of the greates 8 year stretches in the history of baseball.

He went 3-0 that fall. He struck out 31 in 30 innings, walking only 5.

The following seven years are the stuff legends are made of. The highest ERA of his MLB career would happen his last year in 1966. The ERA? 2.03.

After the terrific fall in 59, he took the majors by storm. In 1960 he went 22-3 with a 1.42 ERA. In 228 innings he allowed 123 hits, walked 43 and struck out 258 batters.

His WHIP line looks like this for his 8 year career: .82, .73, .86, 1.06, .80, .93, .88, 1.07

For his career, he tossed 1426 innings, allowed 919 hits, 355 BB and struck out 1495 batters.

His one problem was with injuries. He always had a nick here and a nick there. He had very little endurance and it showed. In September of 1966, after another pitcher of the month award, he blew his arm out and his career came to an instant halt.

The most dominant pitcher in the history of the league would be forced into early retirement.

Sandy Koufax

TroyF · 06-01-2006, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoSeahawks

I don't know why, but this is the stuff that makes me love text sims.

No doubt about it. And sadly, it's the one thing PureSim really lacks. Being able to look at this guys full numbers are just amazing. Stat after stat after stat.

It's also things like this that frustrate you. The career HR leader gets picked up on waivers and finishes his career with three years in the minors? Damnit.

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Sandy Koufax

Almost to the letter. That's creepy. Dominant streak from '59 to '66 (which is really the time period when Koufax was ascendant), played for the Dodgers, arm problem forced early retirement...

Troy, does it say whether it was his elbow? And was he a lefty?

Dekanth · 06-02-2006, 12:11 AM

Does this make sense, or am I over-reacting

Bottom of the 9th in Game 5 of the Wildcard round, so this is it. I am leading by three runs and I bring in my closer. The AI is managing my team and after a leadoff double, they intentionally walk the next batter (#7 in their order).

So the AI gives out an IW to bring up the tying run with no outs? They put the winning run on deck?

We won by 2, but I was pretty nervous about this move. Do you think it was OK?

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekanth

Does this make sense, or am I over-reacting

Bottom of the 9th in Game 5 of the Wildcard round, so this is it. I am leading by three runs and I bring in my closer. The AI is managing my team and after a leadoff double, they intentionally walk the next batter (#7 in their order).

So the AI gives out an IW to bring up the tying run with no outs? They put the winning run on deck?

We won by 2, but I was pretty nervous about this move. Do you think it was OK?

I don't know. It's hard to tell without the proper context - i.e., what'd the next two look like? who was #8, who was #9?

I can see putting the guy on to go for the double play, but that's risky if the next guy up is showing bunt.

TroyF · 06-02-2006, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Almost to the letter. That's creepy. Dominant streak from '59 to '66 (which is really the time period when Koufax was ascendant), played for the Dodgers, arm problem forced early retirement...

Troy, does it say whether it was his elbow? And was he a lefty?

He was a righty, but it was his elbow. Ruptured Ulnar Collateral Ligament (elbow), career ending injury!

DaddyTorgo · 06-02-2006, 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dekanth

Does this make sense, or am I over-reacting

Bottom of the 9th in Game 5 of the Wildcard round, so this is it. I am leading by three runs and I bring in my closer. The AI is managing my team and after a leadoff double, they intentionally walk the next batter (#7 in their order).

So the AI gives out an IW to bring up the tying run with no outs? They put the winning run on deck?

We won by 2, but I was pretty nervous about this move. Do you think it was OK?

setting up a DP and pitching to a weak #8 hitter maybe? seems quite risky, but that's at least a logical explanation. somewhat logical. and you're not moving anyone else into scoring position with the walk, which would be a huge red flag.

Swaggs · 06-02-2006, 12:24 AM

Thanks for the info, Troy.

I will be looking forward to hearing more.

stevew · 06-02-2006, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

Last guy for tonight. I have to share this, because I find this guys career fascinating:

In every career sim, you look at one or two players and think "what could have been. . ."

In this one, the guy who jumps out at me is named Kane Bucknell.

Kane was drafted in teh second round by the Dodgers in 1958. He was the 48th overall pick.

He pitched for the rookie league team that year and did so/so, going 7-3 with a 4.06 ERA in 12 starts.

He spent the next year in the PCL and flat out dominated. 199 K's in 163 innings. The Dodgers called him up for a cup of coffee late in 1959 and we'd see the beginning of one of the greates 8 year stretches in the history of baseball.

He went 3-0 that fall. He struck out 31 in 30 innings, walking only 5.

The following seven years are the stuff legends are made of. The highest ERA of his MLB career would happen his last year in 1966. The ERA? 2.03.

After the terrific fall in 59, he took the majors by storm. In 1960 he went 22-3 with a 1.42 ERA. In 228 innings he allowed 123 hits, walked 43 and struck out 258 batters.

His WHIP line looks like this for his 8 year career: .82, .73, .86, 1.06, .80, .93, .88, 1.07

For his career, he tossed 1426 innings, allowed 919 hits, 355 BB and struck out 1495 batters.

His one problem was with injuries. He always had a nick here and a nick there. He had very little endurance and it showed. In September of 1966, after another pitcher of the month award, he blew his arm out and his career came to an instant halt.

The most dominant pitcher in the history of the league would be forced into early retirement.

Who let Foz manage that team?

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

He was a righty, but it was his elbow. Ruptured Ulnar Collateral Ligament (elbow), career ending injury!

OK, not *quite* as creepy then. With Koufax, it was arthritis in the elbow that forced him to quit while he still had the use of his arm.

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

setting up a DP and pitching to a weak #8 hitter maybe? seems quite risky, but that's at least a logical explanation. somewhat logical. and you're not moving anyone else into scoring position with the walk, which would be a huge red flag.

Yup, that was my thought too, but if the #8 gets down a good bunt, you've got one out, the double play is gone, and two guys in scoring position with the tying run still coming up.

DaddyTorgo · 06-02-2006, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Yup, that was my thought too, but if the #8 gets down a good bunt, you've got one out, the double play is gone, and two guys in scoring position with the tying run still coming up.

yep. i personally wouldn't do it, but i guess maybe if you play your corners in that mitigates the bunt a little and still gives you the DP possibility? but i don't think it's GOOD strategy even if that was the strategy by the computer.

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 12:58 AM

Substitution logic looks a little weird. You can drag the pitcher to a spot where no position is assigned (say, because of a double switch), and he properly gets assigned the role of pitcher.

Do it the other way - by dragging to the mound - and the pitcher defaults to the #9 spot in the batting order instead of assuming that the guy with no position is the guy getting replaced.

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 01:46 AM

Maybe my scout just sucks, maybe my perception of what the ratings mean with respect to major league futures suck, but has anybody else started a standard career with no draft and seen just no can't-miss talent in the minor leagues?

I've seen several quality young FA in the FA pool, but I seem to be striking out when it comes to even finding a decent guy to trade a veteran for.

kingnebwsu · 06-02-2006, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

After 3 full seasons, I haven't had much problems with the injuries other than the stretch I posted. I'm willling to accept it being just really bad luck at this point but when you lose your #1, #2 and #3 starting pitchers for the year in the space of 10 days it's something you tend to notice. Not to mention that at the minor league level you can't control the DL, so these guys were just sitting on the roster eating up space despite being useless for the whole year. I think at one point I was using the bat boy as a starter.

This is the point where the OOTP lovers would say "look at the Cubs!" as a justification for your "excitement." Just thinking about the "justifications" people had when I posted on OOTP's forums for the problems I had with 4 and 5 makes me wanna puke.

Back to your regularly scheduled thread

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 02:02 AM

Cash is broken, by the way. Can't send it, can't receive it.

SackAttack · 06-02-2006, 03:25 AM

Anybody having a problem with catchers getting fatigued much too quickly?

I have a couple catchers who have split time over 17 games in Spring Training, and neither is above 60% fatigue.

AlexB · 06-02-2006, 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Bingo.

When I play a text sim, I like to move quickly. It's not that I have any particular aversion to detail. Rather, I just like pile up some seasons. I like to see the kid I drafted mature, find success, leave as a free agent, become a star, come back at the end of his career, then retire and go into the Hall of Fame. I can't do that if it takes me an hour to go through each week.

Again, this is how I like to play. Other people like the detail. That's cool. But for me, it doesn't work. That's why I couldn't get into EHM. Even when I was having fun, I'd play all night and still be in October. I'd realize it would be months before I felt like I had any kind of real history with the game, and I just don't have the time or attention span to play a sim that way.

The ironic thing is that SI's detailed approach killed EHM for me and doesn't sound promising for OOTP, but would actually sound pretty good for an NFL sim. The short season makes US football an easier sport to get into detail with at the sim level.

I've been reading this post with interest, as although I have no plans to buy OOTP, I was intrigued to the reaction of SI's involvement and increasing the scale of the game

This is my view on games as well - I hardly ever play FM: if it's gonna take a month to play a season it ought to be a perfect sim IMHO, with correctly modelled transfers, finances, difficulty, etc, and as it isn't it's not worth the time I would have to invest. CM0304 was the last version I played extensively - the FM versions are too slow for me because of the amount of detail they have to process. I won't be buying the next one, which is a shame as I have played every version from CM2 - CM0304 to death.

It sounds very much like the SI 'simulation' has vanquished the OOTP game as well. As one of the earlier posts stated, different things for different people, but SI's game have moved away from what I am looking for. However, they are picking up more new buyers every year than those who drift away, so I'm sure it's not a major concern to them

AlexB · 06-02-2006, 04:45 AM

Dola,

Re-reading my post it seems as if I was saying CM0304 was perfect - it wasn't, but it was quick enough that I could overlook some of the problems, as there was enough momentum to keep me excited. The slower the game gets, the less excitement and the more you notice the faults.

Anyway, enough about FM, what started as a comparison is becoming an interruption. Apologies.

Young Drachma · 06-02-2006, 05:24 AM

I really do think that in some ways, the lines have been drawn in the sand regarding what sort of sim OOTP will be. Because of the worldwide focus, it really does completely change the scope of the game to a degree that I could see how much it could be a deal breaker for some folks.

Like, you have to wonder on some level, about a baseball sim that prioritized the things that game did and put other stuff on the backburner. At the same time, a game like that really makes me a lot happier with text sims for their long-term replayability and the fact that you just have so many more options, than any console game I can think of.

That said, it'll be interesting to see where people sit on this game after say, six months or longer. I think it'll naturally become more familiar, but, I think people will still feel the way they do about it. Whether that's good or not, or whether it even matters at all though, is anyone's guess.

Bee · 06-02-2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Really? I thought transfers and what not were a huge part of that game.

There's transfers, but that's a completely different system. I think it would be more work to try to modify that system to work as a trading system than just to take the old OOTP system and rewrite it. On a side note, I believe there's a way to turn off trades between leagues (at least I vaguely remember seeing that someplace in the game).

I think it likely that what is going on with the trade engine is it was rewritten from previous OOTP versions which didn't really have the multi-league structure that this one has and therefore the trade engine doesn't really consider what league a player is playing in when offering trades. I suspect that Markus realized this and instead of trying to come up with a more complex solution decided to add an option to turn off intra-league trading.

TroyF · 06-02-2006, 08:25 AM

Despite the ridiculous AI and some of the difficulties learning where things are, I'm simming games nearly as fast as I ever have.

I posted before OOTP came out how I played:

I let the AI handle everything, save roster movement. In OOTP, I've found the lineup/rotation settings to be simple enough that I set those. With this version, I set up my scouts. I leave my best scout free (saving him for the rookie draft). I have another scout take care of my organization. Then a couple for the US and one for the Dominican Republic and I'm off. I then sim one month at a time. I take a quick review of the roster, tweak a few things and repeat.

I'll control a few rounds of the draft in June. (and with OOTP, I have to make sure I set my best scout to scout the rookie pool). I also will look for trades in Mid-July before the trading deadline.

August forward all depends on if I'm in the race or not. Either way, I slow it down to two weeks at a time and bring some of my top prospects up and force them into the lineup for a few games. If I'm in contention, those games are very, very limited. If not, they get a lot more time.

This continues to the final weeks. If it's a ridiculously close race, I'll sim a day at a time if I have to down the stretch. Then the playoffs go day to day if I'm in em or sim straight through if I'm not.

I've simmed a few seasons already in one of my leagues just playing around. There IS more there. And the end of my months do take a tad more time because I'm looking at so many more numbers. I don't think the time has increased all that greatly for me.

Now the first day? Good God. Overwhelmed was a word I used a lot. I really was. After figuring out the bookmarks, I'm figuring out the UI (even if there are parts I don't like) and am moving fairly quickly through it.

Buccaneer · 06-02-2006, 08:46 AM

Quote:

The following seven years are the stuff legends are made of. The highest ERA of his MLB career would happen his last year in 1966. The ERA? 2.03.

After the terrific fall in 59, he took the majors by storm. In 1960 he went 22-3 with a 1.42 ERA. In 228 innings he allowed 123 hits, walked 43 and struck out 258 batters.

His WHIP line looks like this for his 8 year career: .82, .73, .86, 1.06, .80, .93, .88, 1.07

For his career, he tossed 1426 innings, allowed 919 hits, 355 BB and struck out 1495 batters.

His one problem was with injuries. He always had a nick here and a nick there. He had very little endurance and it showed. In September of 1966, after another pitcher of the month award, he blew his arm out and his career came to an instant halt.

The most dominant pitcher in the history of the league would be forced into early retirement.

Playing in the Golden Era (1946-1969) as much as I do, I see that quite a bit - a dominate pitcher and/or a great prospect/vet going out like that. The key to success in playing in this era is to have some of those pitchers - the ones with eras between 1.00 and 2.00 and WHIP under 1.00. In every career, there have been about 10-15 pitchers (throughout 15-20 years) that can do that (in a historical league, they are usually a different mix going from career to career). They command premium salaries and it interesting to see the AI and me to recognize and compete in grabbing those pitchers. More than anything else, I think this is what makes playing a historical league in this era fun.

TroyF · 06-02-2006, 08:55 AM

Some interesting things from my sim:

The statistical depth is beyond amazing. I only told you a quick overview of the guys above.

For instance, I can tell you Juan Castanado was a 7 time all star and won the MVP one time. He won 17 player of the week awards in his career. He struggled badly in the postseason hitting .227 in 30 career games. Hell, he even struggled in his rookie league post season, hitting .190. He hit .278 vs. lefties and 275 vs. righties.

He loved to face a guy named Che Loreto. He went 18/47 with 10 HR against him in his career. Che was a middling pitcher who won 90 games in his career and lost 120. He faced hall of fame pitcher Randy Willingham 4 times in his career and didn't get a hit.

I could get lost in looking at the stats. It's truly amazing.

The Cardinals and Dodgers won the most titles with seven each. Six teams never won a title. Every team made the playoffs multiple times.

Icy · 06-02-2006, 09:02 AM

As i'm used to SI games, i don't have a big problem with the interface and in a few days playing i'll be totally used to it. I have been also reading the manual and the custom views, bookmark and filters features are a great way to customize the interface, but most of the ppl is jumping into the game not knowing about those features that avoid a lot of clicks betwen screens trying to find the info.

In the other hand i really miss two things:

- The Trade block: or to be able to tag a player as available for trade. That way it would be easier to look for players available for trade and also the CPU teams would offer you trades for players that you want to trade away and not for your untouchables. About the "shop player around" feature in 6.5, i don't miss it as i never used it anyway.

- The old transactions screen: It was great to have your entire organization in a single screen, and just drag and drop to move players into the minors/majors. I know there are more minor levels now, but the font used is too big right now and only a few fit in the screen, forcing you to click way more.

Maple Leafs · 06-02-2006, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TroyF

I posted before OOTP came out how I played:

It sounds like you play in almost the exact same way that I like to. Please keep posting your thoughts.

Coffee Warlord · 06-02-2006, 10:21 AM

So it sounds like I should be waiting for a patch or three before I pick this bad boy up, eh?

SirFozzie · 06-02-2006, 10:25 AM

Coffee.. I like it a lot, but it's not perfect by any means

moriarty · 06-02-2006, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coffee Warlord

So it sounds like I should be waiting for a patch or three before I pick this bad boy up, eh?

I'd hold out another 5 days until the patched demo at least. Then again, that's 5 days you could have spent figuring out the interface.

Marc Duffy · 06-02-2006, 10:31 AM

..but we want to keep improving it with all your help.

I've been able to put the first changelist up of stuff we worked on yesterday (this list may actually be missing a few things) and I'll update more before Wednesday

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=120897

Thanks for all the feedback!

06-01-2006, 10:53 PM	#413
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Next I'm going to go with our 312 win man: Clint von Vormann. The left handed starting pitcher was born on November 24, 1930. Career Numbers: 619 starts, 312-173, 3.05 ERA. 4412 IP, 3699 Hits, 1396 BB, 3726 K. 7+ innings per start. His career year saw him go 26-5 with a 2.08 ERA in 1962. Clint was the second player picked in the 1948 draft by St. Louis. He mad his major league debut in 1949, going 5-2 with a 2.47 ERA in 8 starts. His rookie year wasn't quite so kind. He started 35 games, winning 16 and having an ERA of 4.82 in 1950. He won 20 games for the first time in 1952. He pitched in the bigs with the Cardinals from 1949 to 1957. In June of '57, Clint signed a 4 year 53 million dollar extension with the Cardinals. He had some injury trouble the second half of that season and had two long stints on the DL with ligament trouble. Evidently, St. Louis decided they'd made a mistake, because at the winter meetings that year, they shipped him to Texas. He was traded for RF Bob Thomson (an aging vet who would play one year with the Cardinals), RF Paco Fidal (a solid prospect who had his career derailed by injuries), RF Turner Kurtz (another very solid prospect who was derailed by injuries. He tore a rib cage in spring training and missed his entire first year with the Cardinals. He had just finished a wonderful stint in AAA where he stole 29 bases in 60 games) and 3 million in cash. The Cardinals worries about his injuries were unfounded. Clint finished his career with the Rangers. He pitched 12 years for them, with two minor injuries. In 1964 he was limited to 16 starts due to a variety of ailments. His last full year was 1968, where he went 11-16 with a 3.74 ERA. The 1969 season was a disaster. He strained his knee during his first start and missed two weeks. He had a rehab stint of four starts at AAA before being recalled. He lasted four more starts in the majors and was pitching horribly. (6.87 ERA) Fate stpped in at this point. . . before the Rangers had to make the call to cut him, he ruptured a disc in his back on June 12, 1969. He retired in Septermber of that year and was inducted into the baseball hall of fame. Last edited by TroyF : 06-01-2006 at 10:57 PM.

06-02-2006, 12:24 AM	#428
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Thanks for the info, Troy. I will be looking forward to hearing more. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

06-02-2006, 04:45 AM	#439
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	Dola, Re-reading my post it seems as if I was saying CM0304 was perfect - it wasn't, but it was quick enough that I could overlook some of the problems, as there was enough momentum to keep me excited. The slower the game gets, the less excitement and the more you notice the faults. Anyway, enough about FM, what started as a comparison is becoming an interruption. Apologies. __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

06-02-2006, 05:24 AM	#440
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	I really do think that in some ways, the lines have been drawn in the sand regarding what sort of sim OOTP will be. Because of the worldwide focus, it really does completely change the scope of the game to a degree that I could see how much it could be a deal breaker for some folks. Like, you have to wonder on some level, about a baseball sim that prioritized the things that game did and put other stuff on the backburner. At the same time, a game like that really makes me a lot happier with text sims for their long-term replayability and the fact that you just have so many more options, than any console game I can think of. That said, it'll be interesting to see where people sit on this game after say, six months or longer. I think it'll naturally become more familiar, but, I think people will still feel the way they do about it. Whether that's good or not, or whether it even matters at all though, is anyone's guess. __________________ Current Dynasty:The Zenith of Professional Basketball Careers (FBPB/FBCB) FBCB / FPB3 Mods

06-02-2006, 09:02 AM	#445
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	As i'm used to SI games, i don't have a big problem with the interface and in a few days playing i'll be totally used to it. I have been also reading the manual and the custom views, bookmark and filters features are a great way to customize the interface, but most of the ppl is jumping into the game not knowing about those features that avoid a lot of clicks betwen screens trying to find the info. In the other hand i really miss two things: - The Trade block: or to be able to tag a player as available for trade. That way it would be easier to look for players available for trade and also the CPU teams would offer you trades for players that you want to trade away and not for your untouchables. About the "shop player around" feature in 6.5, i don't miss it as i never used it anyway. - The old transactions screen: It was great to have your entire organization in a single screen, and just drag and drop to move players into the minors/majors. I know there are more minor levels now, but the font used is too big right now and only a few fit in the screen, forcing you to click way more. __________________

06-01-2006, 09:59 PM	#402
aran High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: New Jersey, USA	Perhaps try simming 20 years tonight, Troy? That would give us a reasonable chunk of data and probably wouldn't be as monstrous to generate reports for. One full generation of players should be enough to check for anything glaring.

06-01-2006, 10:02 PM	#404
Qrusher14242 High School JV Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Farmersville, CA	Arent the reports huge? The ones they had on the site earlier were 700mb.

06-01-2006, 10:30 PM	#408
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	OK, here we go. I'm picking some of the all time greats first, then I'm going to pick some players at random. If you want to throw something out like "MVP in 1943" or starting 3B of Pitt in 1917, I'll post a brief synopsis of their careers along with anything goofy I find. I'm going to start with the career HR and RBI leader: Juan Castanado. He was born in San Juan in 1934. He finished with these career numbers: 8340 at bats, 2212 hits, 440 doubles, 27 triples, 592 HR, 1724 RBI, 966 BB, 1246 K, 30 SB. .265/.338/.537 His best year saw him thump 65 HR, 185 RBI and slug .686. Juan was drafted by Minnesota in the 1953 draft. He was the fifth pick of the second round, 35th overall. He had a few terrfic years in the minors before moving up to the show for good in 1957. Juan went nuts right away, smacking 51 homers and driving in 152 his first year. He played for Minnesota in the majors from 1957 to 1962 and had the monster HR year in 1961. In November of '62, he signed a monster 6 year, 85 million dollar contract with Florida. (I didn't touch the financials at all, I'm pretty sure we were on 2006 financials throughout, my bad) Then things get strange. All the guy does for Florida is hit around 40 HR a year for three seasons. His last year wtih them, he has 61.9 VORP, and hits 42 HR with 114 RBI. He's 31 years of age at this point. Well, in the fall of that year, he gets picked up off of waivers by Tampa Bay. Yes, you read that right. He has two great years for Tampa before it all goes to hell. In his FA year, he hits a palter .204 with 22 HR. Cleveland takes a chance on him in 1969 and it pays off. He has a terrific comeback year, hitting 29 HR and driving in 119. His last year with Cleveland is fairly poor and we see the end is getting close for our HR King. He's signed by Toronto that offseason and is assigned to their triple A club. He spends the next three years bounding around minor league clubs, hitting his last HR for Florida in 1972. The power hitting first baseman led the league in HR six times, finished in the top 5 another five times beyond that.

06-01-2006, 10:43 PM	#409
DaddyTorgo Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Massachusetts	whoa. the fact he ended up on waivers is not good.

06-01-2006, 10:46 PM	#411
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Couldn't you have turned waivers off?

06-01-2006, 10:52 PM	#412
SunDevil College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Tempe, AZ	When you start turning features off in order for the game to work correctly, then you have OOTP 6.15. Which is kind of sad considering they supposedly rewrote the game.

06-01-2006, 10:56 PM	#415
SunDevil College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Tempe, AZ	How many more versions of this game do we have to turn off waivers in order to get realistic results?

06-01-2006, 11:01 PM	#417
SunDevil College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Tempe, AZ	TroyF, Thanks for taking the time to post this info, I look forward to looking at your 20 year league history output.

06-01-2006, 11:24 PM	#419
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Last guy for tonight. I have to share this, because I find this guys career fascinating: In every career sim, you look at one or two players and think "what could have been. . ." In this one, the guy who jumps out at me is named Kane Bucknell. Kane was drafted in teh second round by the Dodgers in 1958. He was the 48th overall pick. He pitched for the rookie league team that year and did so/so, going 7-3 with a 4.06 ERA in 12 starts. He spent the next year in the PCL and flat out dominated. 199 K's in 163 innings. The Dodgers called him up for a cup of coffee late in 1959 and we'd see the beginning of one of the greates 8 year stretches in the history of baseball. He went 3-0 that fall. He struck out 31 in 30 innings, walking only 5. The following seven years are the stuff legends are made of. The highest ERA of his MLB career would happen his last year in 1966. The ERA? 2.03. After the terrific fall in 59, he took the majors by storm. In 1960 he went 22-3 with a 1.42 ERA. In 228 innings he allowed 123 hits, walked 43 and struck out 258 batters. His WHIP line looks like this for his 8 year career: .82, .73, .86, 1.06, .80, .93, .88, 1.07 For his career, he tossed 1426 innings, allowed 919 hits, 355 BB and struck out 1495 batters. His one problem was with injuries. He always had a nick here and a nick there. He had very little endurance and it showed. In September of 1966, after another pitcher of the month award, he blew his arm out and his career came to an instant halt. The most dominant pitcher in the history of the league would be forced into early retirement.

06-02-2006, 12:11 AM	#424
Dekanth Mascot Join Date: Sep 2005	Does this make sense, or am I over-reacting Bottom of the 9th in Game 5 of the Wildcard round, so this is it. I am leading by three runs and I bring in my closer. The AI is managing my team and after a leadoff double, they intentionally walk the next batter (#7 in their order). So the AI gives out an IW to bring up the tying run with no outs? They put the winning run on deck? We won by 2, but I was pretty nervous about this move. Do you think it was OK?

06-02-2006, 12:58 AM	#433
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Substitution logic looks a little weird. You can drag the pitcher to a spot where no position is assigned (say, because of a double switch), and he properly gets assigned the role of pitcher. Do it the other way - by dragging to the mound - and the pitcher defaults to the #9 spot in the batting order instead of assuming that the guy with no position is the guy getting replaced.

06-02-2006, 01:46 AM	#434
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Maybe my scout just sucks, maybe my perception of what the ratings mean with respect to major league futures suck, but has anybody else started a standard career with no draft and seen just no can't-miss talent in the minor leagues? I've seen several quality young FA in the FA pool, but I seem to be striking out when it comes to even finding a decent guy to trade a veteran for.

06-02-2006, 02:02 AM	#436
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Cash is broken, by the way. Can't send it, can't receive it.

06-02-2006, 03:25 AM	#437
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Anybody having a problem with catchers getting fatigued much too quickly? I have a couple catchers who have split time over 17 games in Spring Training, and neither is above 60% fatigue.

06-02-2006, 08:25 AM	#442
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Despite the ridiculous AI and some of the difficulties learning where things are, I'm simming games nearly as fast as I ever have. I posted before OOTP came out how I played: I let the AI handle everything, save roster movement. In OOTP, I've found the lineup/rotation settings to be simple enough that I set those. With this version, I set up my scouts. I leave my best scout free (saving him for the rookie draft). I have another scout take care of my organization. Then a couple for the US and one for the Dominican Republic and I'm off. I then sim one month at a time. I take a quick review of the roster, tweak a few things and repeat. I'll control a few rounds of the draft in June. (and with OOTP, I have to make sure I set my best scout to scout the rookie pool). I also will look for trades in Mid-July before the trading deadline. August forward all depends on if I'm in the race or not. Either way, I slow it down to two weeks at a time and bring some of my top prospects up and force them into the lineup for a few games. If I'm in contention, those games are very, very limited. If not, they get a lot more time. This continues to the final weeks. If it's a ridiculously close race, I'll sim a day at a time if I have to down the stretch. Then the playoffs go day to day if I'm in em or sim straight through if I'm not. I've simmed a few seasons already in one of my leagues just playing around. There IS more there. And the end of my months do take a tad more time because I'm looking at so many more numbers. I don't think the time has increased all that greatly for me. Now the first day? Good God. Overwhelmed was a word I used a lot. I really was. After figuring out the bookmarks, I'm figuring out the UI (even if there are parts I don't like) and am moving fairly quickly through it.

06-02-2006, 08:55 AM	#444
TroyF Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Some interesting things from my sim: The statistical depth is beyond amazing. I only told you a quick overview of the guys above. For instance, I can tell you Juan Castanado was a 7 time all star and won the MVP one time. He won 17 player of the week awards in his career. He struggled badly in the postseason hitting .227 in 30 career games. Hell, he even struggled in his rookie league post season, hitting .190. He hit .278 vs. lefties and 275 vs. righties. He loved to face a guy named Che Loreto. He went 18/47 with 10 HR against him in his career. Che was a middling pitcher who won 90 games in his career and lost 120. He faced hall of fame pitcher Randy Willingham 4 times in his career and didn't get a hit. I could get lost in looking at the stats. It's truly amazing. The Cardinals and Dodgers won the most titles with seven each. Six teams never won a title. Every team made the playoffs multiple times.

06-02-2006, 10:21 AM	#447
Coffee Warlord Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Colorado Springs	So it sounds like I should be waiting for a patch or three before I pick this bad boy up, eh?

06-02-2006, 10:25 AM	#448
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Coffee.. I like it a lot, but it's not perfect by any means __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

06-02-2006, 10:31 AM	#450
Marc Duffy SI Games Join Date: Oct 2005	..but we want to keep improving it with all your help. I've been able to put the first changelist up of stuff we worked on yesterday (this list may actually be missing a few things) and I'll update more before Wednesday http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=120897 Thanks for all the feedback!

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