2006-07 Soccer Thread

[Critch]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

But to date they haven't proven to be able to make a serious run in the Champions' League.

So you don't count being knocked out in the semi by the eventual winner and then being knocked out in the quarterfinal by the eventual winner as a serious run?

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Critch

Actually Chelsea knocked Barcelona out of the CL the year before last. Chelsea were knocked out by Liverpool in the semi-final.

So that's even more on an argument for Chelsea being arguably the best.

Good point, well made. It's late, I've had a couple of beers, I shouldn't be bandying around things as facts with sober people liable to check them out

[Katon]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Chelsea is loaded with 'best players'. In position by postion talent, they could have the roster in the world. They even dominated the English Premier League for two years. But to date they haven't proven to be able to make a serious run in the Champions' League. Until that happens, I personally have a hard time to concider Chelsea to be in the discussion for best team of Europe, let alone the world.

It's like Peyton Manning's Indianapolis Colts, they win their division year after year, but have zero conference titles to prove they're the best.

Reaching the semis (two years in a row, to boot) doesn't qualify as a serious run?

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Do people have a hard time grasping the "arguably" part of the phrase "arguably the best?"

I guess the problem I have with this is that when I hear someone say something like this, they are just throwing the arguably in to cover themselves. They obviously believe Chelsea is the best in the world or else they would have said "Chelsea is one of the best clubs in the world."

For what it's worth, I don't see Chelsea in the running for best in the world. Third or fourth, but not best. I would take Barcelona, Milan, or even Real Madrid (depending on how they were playing at the time) any time over Chelsea. And I really hate Milan and Real.

Chelsea has a lot of talent and they have more depth than anyone else, but does that make them the best in the world? They're the best in the Premiership, but they need to start winning other competitions. Aside from the Carling Cup two years ago, they haven't done as well as "the best club in the world" should do. Win the FA Cup and the Champions League, or at least get to some finals, and then they can carry the title of best in the world.

[illinifan999]

Are people not understanding ARGUABLY the best? No one is saying they are the best team in the world, Chelsea is ARGUABLY one of the best in the world. Really there is no argument.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Are people not understanding ARGUABLY the best?

Apparently so.

[cthomer5000]

*bangs head against wall*

[VPI97]

There's some really good action in this Barcelona - Chivas match...anyone else watching?

[law90026]

Latest Arsenal rumours:
Gallas still headed there possibly --> but comments suggest he's headed to Real insteard
16 million pound bid for Riberry coming up --> don't like it coz I didn't like Riberry in the World Cup
Possible bid for Toni --> likely to be pure speculation in my opinion

[ISiddiqui]

And nice atmosphere in LA as well . Though I don't think I'll be able to stay up to watch all of it .

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by VPI97

There's some really good action in this Barcelona - Chivas match...anyone else watching?

Yeah. My favorite action was the sprinklers going off.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by law90026

Latest Arsenal rumours:
Possible bid for Toni --> likely to be pure speculation in my opinion

Yeah, I don't see this happening either. Toni's grasp of English is extremely limited, so that's a pretty big barrier. Most likely he's going to end up at Inter.

[Katon]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

I guess the problem I have with this is that when I hear someone say something like this, they are just throwing the arguably in to cover themselves. They obviously believe Chelsea is the best in the world or else they would have said "Chelsea is one of the best clubs in the world."

For what it's worth, I don't see Chelsea in the running for best in the world. Third or fourth, but not best. I would take Barcelona, Milan, or even Real Madrid (depending on how they were playing at the time) any time over Chelsea. And I really hate Milan and Real.

Chelsea has a lot of talent and they have more depth than anyone else, but does that make them the best in the world? They're the best in the Premiership, but they need to start winning other competitions. Aside from the Carling Cup two years ago, they haven't done as well as "the best club in the world" should do. Win the FA Cup and the Champions League, or at least get to some finals, and then they can carry the title of best in the world.

But the thing is, the only team that's been winning a serious domestic league and has done as well as us in the CL over the last 2-3 years is Barcelona. Real haven't been nearly as impressive in league football and haven't done quite as well in the CL either; it's all very well saying "on their day", but they don't have their day often enough for that to work (and hey, if we're just picking the teams in top form then Didier Drogba is suddenly a world-class player). Milan are a terrific team, but as you pointed out earlier they're a bit CL-heavy. They haven't won Serie A for a couple of years (granting that that might be partly because of poor refereeing), Nesta's the only useful defender they have under 35, and if you're going to call them one of the top two teams in the world based on the CL then they really ought to have won it in the time period under discussion.

In 04-05, Chelsea were the best club team in the world. We had probably the best defence of any English club team ever, shattered the Premiership record points tally, and beat our only real competitors for the title head-to-head in the CL. Then last year Barcelona figured out how to defend a lead in the CL and beat us, we went off the boil after New Year's when the league was all but ours, and Barca were clearly #1. Even then, though, it's not clear who has a better argument to be second: Real had the same disappointing CL performance against lesser opposition butwithout the league win, Juve scraped through to the CL quarters but as much through comedy goalkeeping as through stunning football, and while Milan probably have the best case they didn't win the league either. And then we signed Ballack and Shevchenko.

I think Barca still have to be #1, especially given the Zambrotta signing, but we're plainly in the top two, and if you attach enough weight to (the season before last/Ballack/Sheva/crap refereeing at Stamford Bridge in the CL tie) then there's a case for putting us first.

[MIJB#19]

Doesn't the word 'arguable' give us the room to argue about a it?

To some people having the best collection of players and winning the national league doesn't equal being the best team of the continent. I think my Indianapolis Colts comparison is the best example I could think of.

If you wish to use the last 3 years of European performance or continueing national league dominanceas the argument, then you have to throw PSV (Eindhoven) into the mix, which I would find absurd, rate Lyon far above Chelsea, throw Bayern Munchen in there and mention Juventu$ (okay, maybe not). You can't overlook FC Porto's UEFA Cup and CL victories in back to back seasons. AC Milan reached the final twice in the past four seasons, the semi's three times. Liverpool actually won the CL in that period. And I haven't even mentioned last season's CL finalistst Barcelona and Arsenal yet.

I can see where people would throw Chelsea in the mix, I would mention them in a top3 of best teams right now, but I also think there's no argument to put them on #1, not yet, outside of the list of names they have on their team. They're the top favorites to unseat Barcelona as European' champs and I wouldn't be surprised if they manage it and wouldn't mind admitting they are the best once they manage that.

Edit: I fixed some typos.

[law90026]

So Ashley Cole looks unlikely to travel for the Champs League qualifier, adding fuel to the speculation that he's on his way to Chelsea for 25 million pounds.

I'll be glad when he leaves for such an exorbitant amount to be honest... and I'm disappointed in him. With Flamini and Clichy available to play left-back, I'm all for selling him before he becomes a distraction.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Critch

So you don't count being knocked out in the semi by the eventual winner and then being knocked out in the quarterfinal by the eventual winner as a serious run?

You're right, that didn't make sense at all on my end. Reaching the semifinals in back to back seasons isn't easy to accomplish. What I really ment to say that they didn't reach the final, but I have no defense here, my words came out plain stupid.

I'm just having serious problems with the use of 'arguably the best', when I think that this team is still a step away from being in the argument.

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

I'm just having serious problems with the use of 'arguably the best', when I think that this team is still a step away from being in the argument.

Who would be on your shortlist then? Barca? Milan? Other than those two, who else could reasonably get consideration before Chelsea?

[Critch]

Doesnt the fact that we're arguing about whether Chelsea are best in the world make them arguably the best in the world?

I'd personally put them 2nd behind Barcelona. I'd have probably put Juventus ahead of them as well, but I hear they may have had a bad summer

Milan are challengers too, Bayern have probably lost too much over the summer and rely too much on young players to fill the gaps (Werder for the BL this year), Real Madrid are too disjointed though may be improving. Lyon are good but a step below.

Outside Europe, Boca are winning the Argentinian league but will lose all their players to Italy or Spain before they have a real claim, Corinthians have a good selection of players but are bottom of the Brazilian league, so obviously something is going wrong.

Outside Europe Sao Paulo have the best claim, they won the Copa Libertadores last season, they're in the final again this year, and they're currently top of the Brazilian League, though it is early.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by ice4277

Who would be on your shortlist then? Barca? Milan? Other than those two, who else could reasonably get consideration before Chelsea?

In Europe only Barcelona, I couldn't come up with a team outside Europe in a split second. If I had to do a top5, it'd be, in no particular order Barcelona, Lyon, Chelsea, AC Milan and Arsenal.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Critch

Doesnt the fact that we're arguing about whether Chelsea are best in the world make them arguably the best in the world?

Maybe, but some people clearly think 'arguably the best' goes along without arguing about it. They've done a lot the past three seasons to be concidered one of Europe's best teams, but as I said a couple of times (and maybe shouldn't anymore, my point should be clear now), to make that last step forward (to get into the Champions' League final or at least be able to knock Barcelona out), to be legimate for a discussion about being #1.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by MIJB#19

Maybe, but some people clearly think 'arguably the best' goes along without arguing about it. They've done a lot the past three seasons to be concidered one of Europe's best teams, but as I said a couple of times (and maybe shouldn't anymore, my point should be clear now), to make that last step forward (to get into the Champions' League final or at least be able to knock Barcelona out), to be legimate for a discussion about being #1.

They knocked Barcelona out of the Champions League the year before last, doesn't that count?

p.s. I'm arguing for argument's sake. I agree that Barcelona should be ranked best in the world right now.

[MIJB#19]

Originally Posted by Critch

They knocked Barcelona out of the Champions League the year before last, doesn't that count?

p.s. I'm arguing for argument's sake. I agree that Barcelona should be ranked best in the world right now.

I think it's an endless discussion this way. Chelsea didn't even survive the round of 16 last season. Sure, they were drawn against Barcelona, but only because they were scoreless in half their group phase matches to put them in second place.

[Desnudo]

Oops...

http://home.skysports.com/list.aspx?...n+new+scandal#

Reggina charged in new scandal
By Mark Buckingham - Created on 7 Aug 2006
SKY TRAVEL SHOP SPECIALS
Visit the beautiful city of Venice for an experience you will never forget.

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Reggina
Reggina must appear before a sports tribunal after being charged amidst allegations of match-fixing.

Following on from the recent scandal which has rocked Italian football, Reggina have been ordered to answer charges of sporting fraud.

The charge relates to six games the Serie A side were involved in over the past two seasons, with Reggina's president Lillo Foti (pictured) having had his telephone tapped.

Foti, along with three referees, two assistant referees and another official, has been charged by the Italian Football Federation's (FIGC) prosecutor Stefano Palazzi.

The matches in question are home fixtures against Brescia, Cagliari and Palermo, and away games versus Udinese, Sampdoria and Palermo.

Only last month, Foti was questioned in connection with the allegations and protested his innocence, having been accused of trying to rig the outcome of those six games.

Reggina must now wait to learn if they will be on the end of the same guilty verdicts which were recorded against Juventus, Milan, Fiorentina and Lazio.

Juventus were stripped of the Serie A title won for the past two seasons, demoted to Serie B and docked points for their role in the scandal.

Fiorentina and Lazio were originally relegated, only to be reinstated to the top flight upon appeal, while Milan had points deducted.

[Jonathan Ezarik]

Originally Posted by illinifan999

Are people not understanding ARGUABLY the best? No one is saying they are the best team in the world, Chelsea is ARGUABLY one of the best in the world. Really there is no argument.

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but the quote in question was saying Chelsea was the best. I wouldn't have a problem if they said that Chelsea was arguably one of the best, because that's a valid statement.

Originally Posted by Critch

Doesnt the fact that we're arguing about whether Chelsea are best in the world make them arguably the best in the world?

If I say that the MLS is arguably the best league in the world and we argue about it, does that make my statement true?

Originally Posted by Katon

In 04-05, Chelsea were the best club team in the world. We had probably the best defence of any English club team ever, shattered the Premiership record points tally, and beat our only real competitors for the title head-to-head in the CL.

If Chelsea were the best club in the world in 04-05, why didn't they win the CL? Or the FA Cup? So they got to the semis in the CL, and they made it to the fifth round of the FA Cup. They still lost, and let's face it, greatness is determined by how much silverware you have in your trophy case at the end of the day. Just ask the Atlanta Braves about that.

I would pick Chelsea as second best in 04-05 with Milan the best. They made it to the CL final that year (and really should have won) and came in second to Juve in Serie A. If there hadn't been any kind of ref scandal, who's to say that Milan wouldn't have won the Serie A that year?

As for Ballack and Shevchenko, I'm holding judgement until I see how they perform with everyone else at Chelsea. Just because you sign a lot of big names, it doesn't always work out for you. Just ask Real Madrid.

[Coffee Warlord]

Heh, and down in the depths of club soccer....yours truly had a great game in the net. Several acrobatic saves, stopped a penalty and a free kick just outside the box, and kept us in the game as much as possible, despite the fact we were clearly outmatched and playing shit defense. Lost 3-1, but dammit, I played a great game.

Fear the mighty Keeper.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

If Chelsea were the best club in the world in 04-05, why didn't they win the CL? Or the FA Cup? So they got to the semis in the CL, and they made it to the fifth round of the FA Cup. They still lost, and let's face it, greatness is determined by how much silverware you have in your trophy case at the end of the day. Just ask the Atlanta Braves about that.

Because in a cup competition, one below par performance can see you out. The best guide to a team's true ability is league form: over 34-38 games (depending on league size) the best side over a year will win. Winning a cup is an indication that you are a good team, but it does not make you the best.

I would include the CL in the 'makes you good but not the best' category for the exact same reasons: any side can beat another on the day, but in a long league season, over the long term, blips and anomalies will be just that, and the cream will rise, instead of potentially being knocked out from one bad game. Continued cup success (as opposed to one season's good form) would however show form in the long term

That is why when arguing best team in Europe, I, and I think most football fans, would argue look at domestic league domination (in a country where the league is recognised as strong: i.e. Italy, Spain, England, Germany in particular) as the first rule, and then cup record as an enhancement to that.

Given what has happened in Italy this summer, Juve have to be discounted, which leaves Barca, Chelsea and Bayern as the main teams to look at, plus (on the basis of league form and consistent European performance) Milan, Lyon and Porto to be considered as well. Of these I think again most would say Barca are #1 and Chelsea #2 over the past two years in particular.

Just because a team is #1 or #2 doesn;t mean they win every game, you have to look beyond 'Did they or didn't they win a knockout tournament'.

Edit: mixed tenses. Only noticed when cthomer quoted me. I'm tired.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

Just because a team is #1 or #2 doesn;t mean they win every game, you have to look beyond 'Did they or don't they win a knockout tournament'.

Exactly. To me I put more weight into the two years of domincance in the Premiership versus very good (but not good enough) performances in a tournament.

[Mac Howard]

As a Man Utd fan it hurts me to say it but the title of "best team in the world" does come down to Barca or Chelsea, imo I can see justified arguments for either one depending on your choice of criteria.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Ezarik

If I say that the MLS is arguably the best league in the world and we argue about it, does that make my statement true?

Only if there was decent, rational reasons to support the statement. I'd say both people arguing for and against Chelsea have made decent, rational arguments (and a few others as well).

[TazFTW]

Originally Posted by Neuqua

Anyone play EPL Fantasy football? Any recommendations?

Soccernet has one http://games.espn.go.com/epl/frontpage

As does Yahoo http://uk.premiership.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

[Critch]

The Guardian is reporting that Franck Ribery will sign for Arsenal this week. With Rosicky coming in already and maybe Ribery on the wing, they'll be a little harder for me to dislike this season, should be worth watching.

If you've got Setanta I mean, because apparently very few of their games are on FSC.

[atatange1]

Originally Posted by Critch

If you've got Setanta I mean, because apparently very few of their games are on FSC.

I think they will have the same amount of games as in the past. Setanta just snapped up the PPV games, I think that is what happened.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Soccernet has one http://games.espn.go.com/epl/frontpage

As does Yahoo http://uk.premiership.fantasysports.yahoo.com/

The one I use is through the Premier League website

http://fantasy.premierleague.com/

[Critch]

Originally Posted by atatange1

I think they will have the same amount of games as in the past. Setanta just snapped up the PPV games, I think that is what happened.

Yeah, that's pretty much right. There was a post on another board though complaining that Arsenal games appear to be being picked up by Setanta. Apparently FSC only has one of their early games.

[Critch]

dola - Setanta is looking a lot more value for money this year. More English Championship, they've added EPL and a couple of French League 1 games plus a number of international friendlies. Their email also mentions Dutch soccer no ESPN Deportes has dumped it, not sure when it will turn up or where they'll squeeze it in.

Far better than 12 months ago.

[SirFozzie]

yeah, between soccer and Rugby, Setanta is a great value.

[Critch]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

yeah, between soccer and Rugby, Setanta is a great value.

Don't forget the Aussie Rules.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Critch

Don't forget the Aussie Rules.

Oh yeah

I actually tivo it because it's on so late (live Australia time means middle of the Night US TIME

[Critch]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Oh yeah

I actually tivo it because it's on so late (live Australia time means middle of the Night US TIME

People will be starting to suspect we work for Setanta.

Timezones are a strange thing, at 7am last week there was a live evening rugby game from Australia on Setanta. And that's not even the weird bit. The weird bit is it was winter!!

(p.s. Setanta also covers the classic UK horseraces such as The Derby, The Grand National, Glorious Goodwood).

[SirFozzie]

BTW, this is what makes rivalries more fun in Europe.. wot a prank

[bulletsponge]

lol thats great! whats a bottle of Lucozade?

[ice4277]

Originally Posted by bulletsponge

lol thats great! whats a bottle of Lucozade?

A Gatorade-type drink.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Flamini was fantastic there last season.

And he only managed to get a chance because the Cybot hurt his self and Sol went on a walkabout. I was actually not commenting on Flamini's performance as much as Mr Wenger's (seemingly) blind faith in Mr Cybot.

Don't get me wrong, I am absolutely thrilled with what Flamini did last year. On the other hand, we're a different team with him in the lineup. He became a solid defensive fullback but provided little to no attack on that flank (which is a significant part of our attack). Our left-winger is also responsible for much more defensive duties with him in the lineup.

As an aside, many of the folks who have watch the preseason friendlies have not been terribly impressed with him this year. Hopefully, Hoyte will emerge as a left-back alternative for *when* Clichy gets himself hurted.

[daedalus]

Latest Arsenal rumours:

Originally Posted by law90026

Gallas still headed there possibly --> but comments suggest he's headed to Real insteard

I can't see this happening. I just can't see Mourinho being willing to improve Arsenal. The prevailing sentiment on BS seems to be that Arsenal wouldn't want to help Chelsea either. On the other hand, I feel like Chelsea can survive without Gallas' contribution or needing to get something in return for him (assuming he acts the ass like Cole and doesn't "show up" -- which I don't expect) while I don't think Arsenal has such luxury. Unfortunately.

Originally Posted by law90026

16 million pound bid for Riberry coming up --> don't like it coz I didn't like Riberry in the World Cup

I would like it purely on a talent-basis. I would not based purely on our need for another defensive midfielder (or some would say *a* quality defensive midfielder) and our relatively solid depth on the outside.

[Critch]

Despite the aforementioned greatness of Setanta, it sucks that they (along with FSC and GolTV) have chosen to ignore the Champions League qualifiers tonight and tomorrow night.

The time for pre-season friendlies has past, lets see some real meaningful games.

[Desnudo]

Wednesday's Rumors Brought to you by Gallas + Cash for Cole Making too Much Sense to Ever Happen

http://football.guardian.co.uk/rumourmill

Wednesday's rumours

Today's chit-chat is a bit on the stroppy side

Gemma Clarke
Wednesday August 9, 2006
Guardian Unlimited


"Leave me alone, I'm a private person." Photograph: AP.

There are only 10 days left until the Premiership's finest pack up their dreams in their Louis Vuitton washbags and head back into the fray, hoping to clinch that all-important win bonus. But surprise, surprise, not everyone is filled with glee at the prospect. Fed up with slogging his guts out for three hours a day in the Chelsea sweatshop, disgruntled defender William Gallas is threatening to set up a one-man picket line outside Stamford Bridge and go on strike.

Article continues

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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But he's not the only defensive diva practising his placard-holding stomp: publicity-shy wallflower Ashley Cole's future hangs in the balance too. Arsenal say Chelsea have until the end of the week to up their bid, Chelsea say Arsenal have until the end of the week to accept what's already on offer. The Mill says this is all getting a bit farcical now.
There's always the chance that the two striking defenders could find a home in 'Arry Redknapp's back line, which is rapidly turning into an outpost for the emotionally troubled. David James is now looking to bring his particular brand of peculiarity to Fratton Park. Another of the waifs and strays on 'Arry's wish list, Celtic strop-merchant Stilian Petrov, has been cosying up to former boss Martin O'Neill in the hope of skulking over to Aston Villa.

Meanwhile, Internazionale's Obafemi Martins failed to score against Watford in last night's friendly, attracting the amorous gaze of Glenn Roeder, who knows he'll fit right in at St James' Park with that kind of zing. But Glenn also has his eye on Holland striker Dirk Kuyt, who is still floating on the horizon.

After finding out the hard way that Big Men are in short supply, Tottenham are remaining tight-lipped over reports that they are trying to convince Roma to swathe Mido in bubble-wrap and ship him back to north London. Argentine World Cup star Roberto Ayala may also be packing his bags and heading for Spurs Lodge, while Brighton are hoping to sign Ipswich striker Sam Parkin. "It was nice to be included in the same sentence as such a big name," Parkin didn't say.

[MIJB#19]

Meanwhile, Internazionale's Obafemi Martins failed to score against Watford in last night's friendly, attracting the amorous gaze of Glenn Roeder, who knows he'll fit right in at St James' Park with that kind of zing. But Glenn also has his eye on Holland striker Dirk Kuyt, who is still floating on the horizon.

St James' Park is Newcastle, right?
Not gonna happen, Kuijt explicitely made it clear that he's only leaving Feyenoord for a team playing in the Champions' League.

[law90026]

I just find the whole Arsenal transfer situation a tad ludicrous. It just seems like Arsenal players find themselves in some sort of transfer wranggle every summer. There was the Viera issue for years before he left to Juve (a move I still don't understand), Henry and the rumours to Barca, and this year is Ashley Cole, Reyes and (before the WC ended) Cesc.

I'm not sure why it happens this way every year

Anyways, the Cole deal appears to be off but I suspect something might happen over the next few days because Cole is clearly unhappy and pushing for the move in my opinion. Reyes appears to be out for sure since negotiations are taking place today. And now Henry is unhappy that there have been so many departures with few replacements brought in ... completely understandable.

[TazFTW]

Inter add Ibrahimovic for a little under $32 million.

[daedalus]

Originally Posted by law90026

I just find the whole Arsenal transfer situation a tad ludicrous. It just seems like Arsenal players find themselves in some sort of transfer wranggle every summer. There was the Viera issue for years before he left to Juve (a move I still don't understand), Henry and the rumours to Barca, and this year is Ashley Cole, Reyes and (before the WC ended) Cesc.

I'm not sure why it happens this way every year

Because 1) Le Boss comes up with great players that other teams want and 2) as much as it pains me to admit, we are not a "big" club (which I consider Mancheter United, Liverpool and, now, Chelsea to be, amongst English clubs). Clubs think that, with enough money on the table, we HAVE to sell. I disagree with that sentiment since I think the board is actually intelligent enough to never f' with Mr Wenger - although I think Mr Wenger is considerate enough to the board's financial restriction that he would consider it himself. Also, we have less of a "name" attachment than clubs like Real Madrid or Manchester United and, of course, to greedy scumbags, cannot -- or would not -- offer the level of salaries that Chelsea can.

One thing of note, however, in my opinion. With the exception of the end of last season, Henry's stance has always been that he's a Gunners through and through and, no matter what, he is staying. I feel better to see Cesc taking the same stance consistently. By contrast, Vieira consistently flirted with Real.

Originally Posted by law90026

Anyways, the Cole deal appears to be off but I suspect something might happen over the next few days because Cole is clearly unhappy and pushing for the move in my opinion. Reyes appears to be out for sure since negotiations are taking place today. And now Henry is unhappy that there have been so many departures with few replacements brought in ... completely understandable.

While I can understand Henry's disappointment at the departures and potential departures and the lack of additions, I disagree with it. Sentiment aside, I think Dennis and Pires became 30 minute change of pace guys by the end of last season. I don't think either would have been happy with that role and there was no way to justify Pires' salary in that role. I don't think Campbell really had his heart in it with us anymore and, again, no way to justify his level of salary in the role he would have been best in with us (3rd centreback) nor would I really want him taking up valuable development time from Djourou with half-hearted efforts. Cole wants out and has wanted for the last year. Perhaps the Boss waited too long to get rid of Pennant and his selfish attitude got to Cole. Perhaps he really is a douche and his nature is merely surfacing. Whatever it is, meeting up with a rival the day before a huge match with another rival is unforgivable [and, amazingly, quite a number of Arse fans HAD forgiven him for it]. Refusing to accept the wrongness of it and attempting to blame the club for it is ridiculously beyond the pale. Reyes, talented as he is, never really seemed settled at Arsenal. I don't think enough Arsenal fans ever really appreciated him enough for, what I think, he does. I think they wanted goals in the manner that Pires provided but he is not the same type of player [the only thing they had much in common was their tendency and willingness to plop on the ground]. He provided a number of really nice passes to release Henry on his runs, he tracked back on defense much more than Pires did. Also, based on comments from Sevilla fans, I don't think he was employed in his best position at Arsenal -- as the withdrawn striker. But what he wants is to return to Spain and Real Madrid is his best chance to do so. I can't consider it a bad thing for him to leave.

Of all the people who have left or will be leaving, the only one I am troubled by is Reyes. And only because it leaves us rather thin on the left wing and because I think he will soon reach his potential. Mind you, if his departures is matched by the arrival of Ribery than I would be far less concern. And if the Boss could find it in his heart to rescue Roberto Ayala from his torture [something I seriously doubt would happen], I would be positively giddy.