2007-08 NBA Playoffs thread

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

How about that Gasol? 36 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists.

If he plays like that, the Lakers walk into the NBA Finals

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

How about that Gasol? 36 points, 16 rebounds, 8 assists.

Most impressive performance of the day, so far.

I'm pleasantly surprised that the Sixers are hanging with the Pistons.. here's hoping they can steal this game.

[Eaglesfan27]

Terrible miss by Iggy, but after his performance in the 2nd half, it's forgivable as long as the Sixers still win

[Groundhog]

Not getting the live feed over here, but go Sixers! What a year for the Sixers and Andre Miller.

[Eaglesfan27]

Assuming you don't mind spoilers since you are reading this thread, it is now 88-86 with 11 seconds left. Sixers are leading!

[Eaglesfan27]

Rasheed missed a wide open layup! Iggy gets the board and is fouled!

This time he hits both FT's to give them a 4 point lead.


Edit: Sixers win 90-86. Piston's fans (some anyway) booing their home team.

[Groundhog]

Wow. Sixers continue to overachieve. I have a soft spot for the Sixers because I cheer for any team that Andre Miller plays for. A class player.

[DaddyTorgo]

Celtics up 9-2 early. Hawks look tight and Pierce is shooting the lights out

[Eaglesfan27]

I think the Celtics are going to blow out the Hawks every single game of this series.

[Brian Swartz]

I'd have booed them too, had I been there. Sheed goes for 24/9/7 and it should be an automatic win. Great job by the Sixers, and the Pistons need to start making free throws and layups and generally pulling their head out of their behinds about how good they think they are(boxing out might help too).

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Your ass got beat, and you don't give respect? Sorry, but that's BS. Anyone who gets beat putting out their best when the stakes are highest and doesn't give respect to the ones who showed up and beat them doesn't deserve to offer their opinion about what constitutes deserving respect.

Are you talking about the team or the player? Because I don't respect the bench player who doesn't do anything but the team will get respect and Phoenix didn't get their ass beat more like they blew it.

[Noop]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I dunno, it's pretty hard to be more successful than the Duncan-era Spurs have been. By this logic you would have to say nobody in the modern era other than MJ deserves Shaq's respect, which is ridiculous I think. I mean seriously, what franchise deserves his respect if SA doesn't?

I was talking about individuals not the team.

[Arles]

Granted Shaq made the comment about flopping, but he also said:

"We had a lot of opportunities to win,'' O'Neal said. "You can't make mistakes against a team like that especially here in this building.''

Seems like he's giving SA some respect there. I don't remember Duncan going out and saying "Man, that Dirk is the best player on the floor and we should be honored to be playing with him" after a loss to Dallas in the playoffs. In fact, I remember this comment after the early playoff loss to Dallas in 2006:

"One play either way, one call either way, whatever it may be, it came down to that," said Duncan, who was visibly upset and hardly spoke to reporters after the game.

Yeah, blaming the refs when you get beat shows great respect. Let's also remember that Duncan has never committed a foul in his own mind in his NBA career:

[Brian Swartz]

One play either way, one call either way, whatever it may be, it came down to that," said Duncan, who was visibly upset and hardly spoke to reporters after the game.

Yeah, blaming the refs when you get beat shows great respect. Let's also remember that Duncan has never committed a foul in his own mind in his NBA career:

It's ridiculous to claim that in that quote Duncan was blaming the refs for the loss. He's simply saying how close the game was. A whole lot different from what Shaq has consistently said throughout his career("The Spurs are a great WNBA team" ring any bells?).

Edit: Want an example of a player blaming the refs? Try on this:

"I thought the referees did an awful job tonight. I felt like they cheated tonight. And you can quote me on that. And if David Stern and them want to fine me, try to control people with money, they can take double and take triple, but you can’t control me with no money. I’ve been taking this same abuse for seven years. So **** them, I don’t care. Fine me. Period. That’s all I’ve got to say"

[Karlifornia]

Shaq is a very good quote, and nothing he says, or has said, would surprise me.

[Arles]

The point is rarely does a team that loses a hardfought playoff game give a ton of credit to their opponents. They often focus on their own mistakes, while conceding the opponents were tough. That's what Shaq did after the game. Now, was he frustrated about the flops? Sure, and his comments on that lacked a little class. Still, it's not like every other good player gushes about their opponent after a loss and Shaq doesn't. He's probably closer to Sheed than KG on a "class" level, but it's not a big issue to fans not from LA or for the opponent he's playing - and it's not unlike most stars in the game today.

[Radii]

This is not the type of chatter I expected going into what is supposed to be a great NBA Playoffs with tons of talent and evenly matched teams. Interesting.

Gasol was nuts today, very entertaining.

[Brian Swartz]

The point is rarely does a team that loses a hardfought playoff game give a ton of credit to their opponents. They often focus on their own mistakes, while conceding the opponents were tough.

This I agree and don't have a problem with.

He's probably closer to Sheed than KG on a "class" level, but it's not a big issue to fans not from LA or for the opponent he's playing - and it's not unlike most stars in the game today.

I don't think most stars are like Shaq and it bothers at least me more than you state -- to take different team's examples, when he talked about Mutombo when they played in the finals, or referred to Sacramento as the Queens, etc. it annoyed me just as much.

But enough of that .

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I think the Celtics are going to blow out the Hawks every single game of this series.

Go out on a limb much?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I don't think most stars are like Shaq and it bothers at least me more than you state -- to take different team's examples, when he talked about Mutombo when they played in the finals, or referred to Sacramento as the Queens, etc. it annoyed me just as much.

But enough of that .

Yeah, you have a point. Still, with Nash, Hill, Diaw, Barbosa and others - the Suns had enough "good statesmen". Shaq was brought to Phoenix to give them a bit of an attitude (not unlike Sheed in Det or Kobe on the Lakers). So, he's kind of doing what he was brought here to do, but I can see how it would grate some people.

[Neon_Chaos]

That Lakers game was insane. It wasn't just Gasol. Odom, Radmanovic, Vujacic, Farmar... they exploited mismatches everywhere, Anthony Carter suffering the most beating. The Nuggets post defense was porous, at best. The only good thing the Nuggets did defensively was put KMart on Kobe, but even then, the match-ups favored LA, and Kobe eventually got his points via the free throw line.

Karl needs to play Kleiza more, and Anthony has to play defense if the Nuggets are going to get back in this series.

[Groundhog]

A Utah-Lakers semis would be very interesting. AK47 (and Harpring, to an extent) did a hell of a job on McGrady in the 4th Q of game 1 (he'll have that assignment all day for the rest of this series if the Jazz are smart) by completely stopping his penetration - TMac just couldn't get around him. Be very interested to see if he could do that Kobe. Looks like his motivation is through the roof right now.

Would be an interesting battle between the bigs too, especially if Bynum is back at even 75%. Jazz are a dangerous squad IMO - a real wildcard. There isn't a team in the league they couldn't beat in a 7 game series if the shots fall their way.

[Neon_Chaos]

I just realized while watching the Lakers that they may be the whitest team in the playoffs. They have 5 white guys in their rotation.

The Lakers have Vujacic, Radmanovic, Farmar, Walton, and Gasol.

The Jazz have four right now, Kirilenko, Harpring, Korver, and Okur.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Neon_Chaos

I just realized while watching the Lakers that they may be the whitest team in the playoffs. They have 5 white guys in their rotation.

The Lakers have Vujacic, Radmanovic, Farmar, Walton, and Gasol.

The Jazz have four right now, Kirilenko, Harpring, Korver, and Okur.

Meh...not sure how much that applies. Farmar is actually at least half black, maybe more. I forget the breakdown. And three of the others are European. There's a difference between European white and American white.

So the Jazz "win" 2-1, with Harpring and Korver.

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Meh...not sure how much that applies. Farmar is actually at least half black, maybe more. I forget the breakdown. And three of the others are European. There's a difference between European white and American white.

So the Jazz "win" 2-1, with Harpring and Korver.

Lol. I hope Mihm gets tossed back into the rotation, to make the tie.

[Neon_Chaos]

How about that old Jazz team with Hornacek, Stockton, Keefe, Foster, and Ostertag?

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Meh...not sure how much that applies. Farmar is actually at least half black, maybe more. I forget the breakdown. And three of the others are European. There's a difference between European white and American white.

So the Jazz "win" 2-1, with Harpring and Korver.

Farmar's mother is Jewish

Lakers do have a fair collection of Euro's though. Turiaf is from France. Vujacic is from Slovenia. Gasol is from Spain. Radmanovic is Serbian. Mbenga is from the Congo. (Not Europe but still foreign)

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Farmar's mother is Jewish

Yup, and his biological father is black. So he's quite the eclectic combo.

[Noop]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Denver get sweeped. They play like a high school team in some respects because it is basically a two-man game between Melo and Iverson. All that talent being underutilized...

In my opinion they need to start Smith and have Iverson play PG.

[Dr. Sak]

I find it a little amusing about Shaq bitching about people flopping when the NBA refs allowed him to run over people for the better part of his career and look the other way.

[TroyF]

1) When Shaq doubled on Manu and Manu went inside the three point line, Shaq needs to go off of him and take the open shooter. He wasn't 20 feet from TD when Manu started his drive, he was about five feet. He chose to go the other ten feet into the lane to guard a 2 point shot that he didn't need to defend. That's lazy, stupid basketball.

2) Yo show how Shaq made a handfull of blocks in the final minutes of the fourth. What you don't show is all of the Manu and TP drives for layups where Shaq backed off because he was scared of picking up his sixth foul. Those layups cost the Suns the game as much as anything. If Shaq wasn't willing/able to defend, he shouldn't have been on the floor.

3) Gasol had a great performence, but let's not get carried away. The one Nugget who could truly defend Gasol wasn't on him. The oft bashed Kenyon Martin was busy frustrating Kobe Bryant for most of the night instead of on Gasol. Camby is a horrific man to man defender. (he's one of the single best weakside, help defenders in basketball, but he can't guard his man straight up worth a crap) Nobody else on the Nuggets has the size or speed to defend Gasol. (OK, Nene does, but he's injured as usual)

I'm not saying Gasol didn't play well. I'm not saying he doesn't deserve praise. Nor am I saying the Lakers can't win the title (I think they are the favorites at this point in the west) I'm just saying let's not give the guy a medal for trashing an interior defense that's not exactly dominating to begin with.

If George Karl doesn't get his head out of his ass, this is a four game sweep for LA. Anthony Carter needs to be on the bench. JR Smith needs to play a hell of a lot more than 23 minutes. They need to play more zone and they need to hit their damned FT. (lost in the 14 point Lakers win was 14 missed Nuggest FT, if they hit even 8 to 10 of those, it would have been a game late.

GK loves Anthony Carter though. Putting him and AI together on the floor so the Nuggets have massive mismatches at both ends of the floor really excites him for some reason. . .

[Arles]

If you want a goat in game 1, Amare's a much better choice than Shaq. Amare got the idiotic charge on Kurt and decided to stay on Oberto on the block instead of pop out on Finley on the screen for the first 3. As to Shaq, if he doesn't ride Manu past the 3-point line, Manu stops, dribbles back and pops a 3 at the top of the key. So, what are better odds? Manu at the top of the key or Duncan from 3?

Duncan's 3 was just a tough possession for Phoenix. If Shaq or Nash foul Manu as he went past the free throw line, he throws it up and maybe gets a 3 point play. If Bell runs out to cover Duncan right when he gets it, Udoka is wide open in the corner. The Suns did a decent job of making a tough shot beat them (Duncan from 3) - I can live with that more than Amare dropping to cover Oberto on the screen while Barbosa fights to cover Finley. Even if Oberto got the pass - it would still have been a 12-foot baseline shot down 3. Amare just goes brain dead at times and that may be the reason the Suns never win a championship.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I saw this mentioned on espn.com, a Bob Ryan column about the Hawks Eastern Conference semi-final loss to the Celtics 20 years ago.

Here's just a snip from it, helpful for those who don't remember it.

Be assured that pro basketball doesn't get any better than it was on that glorious Sunday afternoon. Here was a 118-116 Game 7 in which the Celtics and Hawks combined for 59 percent shooting while turning the ball over a scant 15 times. The Celtics were able to overcome 47 points by Dominique Wilkins because Larry Bird scored 20 of his 34 points on 9-for-10 fourth-quarter shooting. Their little Gunfight at OK Corral duel in the fourth quarter, when Larry had 20 and 'Nique had 15 and in which they had one stretch of three consecutive possessions when each scored, never has been surpassed.

What people in Boston don't realize is just how utterly devastating that loss was to the Hawks. A victory that day would have put them in the Eastern Conference finals for the only time since the team relocated from St. Louis in 1968. It would have validated professional basketball in Atlanta in a way that, curiously, still never has happened.

Darned good piece about something that I believe played a big role in the mess that the Hawks subsequently turned into.

[stevew]

Wiztards are getting LeBrwn'd again. Maybe having Soulja Boy courtside will make Deshawn Stevensuck play better in game 3.

[miami_fan]

Things can't be good when Stevenson is among your leading scorers with 12 points.

[JeeberD]

The Rockets are looking aggressive on offense so far. When they settle for jumpers is when they get in trouble...

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by TroyF

If George Karl doesn't get his head out of his ass, this is a four game sweep for LA. Anthony Carter needs to be on the bench. JR Smith needs to play a hell of a lot more than 23 minutes. They need to play more zone and they need to hit their damned FT. (lost in the 14 point Lakers win was 14 missed Nuggest FT, if they hit even 8 to 10 of those, it would have been a game late.

GK loves Anthony Carter though. Putting him and AI together on the floor so the Nuggets have massive mismatches at both ends of the floor really excites him for some reason. . .

The Nuggets have to be one of the most frustrating teams to watch. I just do not understand how they can play as poorly as they do. Their talent is above and beyond many of the teams in the league, but for whatever reason, they simply do not play as a team on either end. The offense is one pass, dribble around and launch a jumpshot. Their defense is porous unaccountability defined. If they would execute the way the Spurs and Jazz do, they could be scary good, but why they can't is a mystery to me.

[JeeberD]

Fucking missed layups. Fucking Okur...

[korme]

fucking missed free throws

[JeeberD]

Fucking Flopilenko

[korme]

No shit

[Brian Swartz]

The Nuggets have to be one of the most frustrating teams to watch. I just do not understand how they can play as poorly as they do. Their talent is above and beyond many of the teams in the league, but for whatever reason, they simply do not play as a team on either end. The offense is one pass, dribble around and launch a jumpshot. Their defense is porous unaccountability defined. If they would execute the way the Spurs and Jazz do, they could be scary good, but why they can't is a mystery to me.

A couple points here. One, talent alone only means so much. The question is complementary talents. On offense, the one commodity you need the most with scorers like AI and Melo is guys who can shoot. The Nuggets have few, and none of them particularly reliable. Plus AI has always been a player that has to dominate the ball to be effective, which makes it impossible for them to executive above a certain level as a team. Offense is actually their biggest problem.

Defensively, they are a lot better than they are given credit for. Denver is NOT a bad defensive team. Read that as many times as you have to until you accept it. They tied for ninth in the league in defensive efficiency this year, in a group of teams tightly bunched from 5th on down(behind Boston, Houston, SA, and Detroit, the elite defensive teams) that includes LA, NO, Orlando, Dallas, Cleveland, Philadelphia, and the Nuggets. Not a whole lot of difference in how those teams performed defensively this year. It's their inability to get good shots, particularly when one of the two stars is out of the game/having a bad night that kills them.

[Neon_Chaos]

Actually, Denver is only a good defensive team when the opposing team decides to run at the same pace that they do. They are better at creating turnovers and mistakes at that pace.

In a seven game series, I doubt the opposing team is going to fall for that quite often.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Fucking Flopilenko

Tony Brothers is the worst ref in the league. He's continually snowed by floppers (he called two fantom flops against Shaq on Sunday). It would be one thing if he was on the take like Donaghy, but he is just terrible on his own. That call on Houston might have been the worst I have seen in years (even worse than the Donaghy call from midcourt on the Ginobili layup last postseason). How do you take the ball from the players in the final minute for a play (even if it was a foul, which it wasn't) nowhere near what was going on in the game?

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

I'd have booed them too, had I been there. Sheed goes for 24/9/7 and it should be an automatic win. Great job by the Sixers, and the Pistons need to start making free throws and layups and generally pulling their head out of their behinds about how good they think they are(boxing out might help too).

Sadly this game was classic Pistons. I hoped that with last year's loss to Cleveland that this year they would actually take the games seriously but there's no change. They go out there acting like there's no chance in hell they could lose the game and then they're surprised that they do. It's just a total lack of concentration and focus. How does the 2nd best free throw shooter in the league miss THREE free throws down the stretch?

Maybe its because they've become a fixture in the Eastern Conf Finals but they're out of excuses in my mind. They're not tired (Flip did a great job managing minutes), they're in the "underdog" role again since Boston is the one seed and Flip is not the problem - Flip's not drawing up missed layups or wide open shots in the huddle.

I really like this team - they've been so successful and have given us so much to cheer about in Detroit but it's really to the point where the fans aren't satisfied with another trip to the ECF - we want another title and we expect the players to act like they want it too and they just don't look like they do. They'll win this series but I could see them losing to Orlando and as much as I hate to say it I would not have much hope of them beating Boston. They're capable of beating any team in the league but if trying to flip the switch didn't work against a pretty average Cleveland team last year it's not going to work against a better Orlando team and a far better Boston team this year either.

[miami_fan]

Avery Johnson, you are now officially on the coaching hot seat.

[Groundhog]

I gave these Hornets no chance. Very impressed with how they've played.

[Jas_lov]

The Suns are just no match for the defending NBA Champions. Who said the Spurs were washed up? I can't wait to see Spurs-Lakers in the Western Conference Finals.

[Neon_Chaos]

I never thought Popovich would actually resort to Hack-a-Shaq. Blah. The Suns look tired and dejected. They just collapsed in the 3rd quarter and never recovered.

[Neon_Chaos]

Spoke too soon. Here we go.