2007-08 NBA Playoffs thread

[Brian Swartz]

I feel for Suns fans. They have the talent and then some, but apparently not the will. I certainly wouldn't say that a SA-LA conference finals is anything approaching certain yet. Utah and NO will have something to say about that, and it's entirely possible that one of DAL/PHO/HOU/DEN will make things interesting before the first round is over. Not likely, but possible.

[Groundhog]

Well, to be fair, they are playing the Spurs. That's a tough first round matchup for anyone. I had the Suns pencilled in as winners of the series, but every year I seem to forget just how good the Spurs are come playoffs.

[Brian Swartz]

That's true, but it isn't as if they are losing because they aren't talented enough to hang with SA. It's kind of like being a Pistons fan, with the exception that we once had a team that played as mentally tough as you can be. Past tense.

The point with Phoenix is that losing big leads in both games and the faulty execution down the stretch in Game 1 -- these are not isolated things but are the continuation of a pattern(with the notable exception of Game 4 vs. SA last year).

[Arles]

With Amare and Barbosa, the Suns will never be good in the clutch. Both are extremely sloppy and have the mental IQ of a midget. Spurs are better and the Suns are a mess. Any Suns fan that comes back with hope next season is kidding themselves. They are the Kings of the 2000s.

Thank the sports gods for the DBacks . Atleast Phoenix has something to fall back on once their team is eliminated (which will be shortly). As to the west, New Orleans, SA, Utah and LAL should be a fun set of series'. All four are capable and I don't see any of those teams having the mental lapses/vacancies of teams like Denver, Phoenix and Dallas. Should be interesting to watch how this west unfolds.

[stevew]

I'd figure with a 2-time MVP the Suns would win this in a cakewalk. Oh well.

[Neon_Chaos]

The Suns need to stop going to Diaw to exploit a "mismatch".

For two games, they've fallen for that trap. Amare and Nash get hot, but then they suddenly find a "mismatch" with Diaw and his guy, and he has failed to deliver.

25 points for Amare in the 1st half means squat if you don't actively look for him in the 2nd half as well. Jeez.

[Brian Swartz]

Amare got his shots in the second half: he just didn't make them. 11-14 fg 1st half, 2-11 2nd half.

[korme]

People just need to learn to forget about how uninteresting, boring, or any other adjective expressing displeasure they could think of to describe the Spurs, and just remember that they are the most complete team in the league. There are tons of Spurs haters but I can't be one of them because they do the only thing that matters in the playoffs, they win.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

I'd figure with a 2-time MVP the Suns would win this in a cakewalk. Oh well.

I don't really know your NBA allegiances or follow your posts regarding the NBA, but I hope this was sarcastic on like 3 different levels!

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Amare got his shots in the second half: he just didn't make them. 11-14 fg 1st half, 2-11 2nd half.

They actively went for Diaw in the third and fourth. Amare got his shots in the first half because of good ball movement. The Suns didn't have that when they kept wasting 8-10 seconds by having Diaw post up. Nash had 9 assists in the first half, and only 1 in the entire second half. Nash got fed up and just started shooting late in the fourth, which actually triggered their 9-point mini-comeback.

[stevew]

Maybe I just have an irrational hatred of Steve Nash.

[korme]

Originally Posted by stevew

Maybe I just have an irrational hatred of Steve Nash.

I'm right there with you. Everyone loves him and I'm always the Nash hater of the group

[Vince]

Originally Posted by Shorty3281

People just need to learn to forget about how uninteresting, boring, or any other adjective expressing displeasure they could think of to describe the Spurs, and just remember that they are the most complete team in the league. There are tons of Spurs haters but I can't be one of them because they do the only thing that matters in the playoffs, they win.

This is pretty much 100% true. I don't like the Spurs (only the Dodgers earn hatred from me...well, and the Angels), but you're right on the nose here Shorty.

[Neon_Chaos]

Just under 9 minutes left. Lakers up by 7. Neither team is playing good defense.

[Neon_Chaos]

Kobe is taken out. About time. The Nuggets are done.

Superhuman effort from Kobe, and he made it looks so easy. 49 points, 4 rebounds, 10 assists, 66% from the field, 8/9 FT.

[larrymcg421]

I will be in attendance for games 3 and 4 of the Hawks-Celtics series. Not only have I never attended a Celtics (My favorite team) game before, but I've never even attended an NBA game before. Should be pretty exciting. Here's hoping the C's can win both games to finish off the series.

[stevew]

Cavs forgot there was a game tonight. Good coaching, again.

[JeeberD]

Rockets pulled one out in Utah. Still alive...

[Neon_Chaos]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Rockets pulled one out in Utah. Still alive...

Alston coming back was huge. He alleviated McGrady's burden to score for most of the game.

[JeeberD]

The thing is, he shot better than usual. If he keeps playing at a high level, we have a chance to win this series. But I don't have that much faith in Rafe...

[Dr. Sak]

Sixers go up 2-1 on the Pistons.

[Neon_Chaos]

The Mavs finally pull out with a win.

[Arles]

First, Pop's being real smart with the Hack-a-Shaq strategy. It make it very tough for Phoenix to go on a run. But, man, is this game almost unwatchable. There's just no flow at all.

Still, if I were the Suns, I'd start hacking Bruce Bowen or Oberto in the final few minutes.

[miami_fan]

My goodness.

Memo to the Spurs

Shaq hesitates on his free throws

Stop jumping in the lane!

[miami_fan]

Barring a massive collapse by the Spurs, the Suns will be down 3-0 and will lose the series. Does anyone besides Mike D'Antoni take the fall for this one?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

Barring a massive collapse by the Spurs, the Suns will be down 3-0 and will lose the series. Does anyone besides Mike D'Antoni take the fall for this one?

I think the main goats are Amare, Shaq, LB, Diaw and Mike D. Amare because he's maybe the most talented guy on the floor but as tough as a wet kleenex. LB and Diaw haven't come close to balancing out Manu. And Shaq's PNR defense and foul shooting have hurt.

In the end, though, you have too look at the coach, GM and owner. They moved Kurt and Marion to land Shaq - and this team has done worse in the playoffs. Now, Sarver's doing great from a bottom line standpoint (the Shaq move has saved him millions - as did selling Kurt for picks). Still, the on-the court product didn't work out. Mike D should be gone, but I'm not sure how much of the moves was Kerr and how much was Sarver keeping his budget in tact.

Either way, I can't see D'Antoni coming back. But, who knows, anything can happen and Sarver has shown us that winning isn't the most important thing.

As to the Spurs, it's a crime Pop hasn't won Coach of the Year yet (or has he?). Any rare, he's a great coach and this Spurs team is a like a machine. My hope is that we see LAL, NO, SA and Utah next round. Those games should be great and it's going to be a tough road in the West.

[Oilers9911]

The NBA has to change the rules on fouls to prevent the hack-a-shaq (or whomever) strategy. It's a smart strategy but it makes the games incredibly poor to watch. I'm not sure what the solution is but there has to be something done.

[Brian Swartz]

I disagree. First of all nobody can do it the whole game -- when it happens a few possessions out of a game I don't see how it makes the game unwatchable as it's not happening the vast majority of the time. I also don't see why guys who can't shoot FT should not be able to have that weakness exploited(same goes for Bowen on SA and any other player). If they were half-decent shooters at the line it would be a bad strategy and wouldn't be used.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

The NBA has to change the rules on fouls to prevent the hack-a-shaq (or whomever) strategy. It's a smart strategy but it makes the games incredibly poor to watch. I'm not sure what the solution is but there has to be something done.

Oh I dunno, maybe a person playing at the highest level of basketball in the world should be capable of making more than 52% of free throws. This is what Dwight Howard needs to realize now before his career turns into getting hacked every time he touches the ball.

Regardless they can't change the rules to prevent it unless they want to change the rules so you can't be a 7'1 350lb monster that is just (or at least was) an impossible force to stop from going to the basket. If teams don't want the hack-a-shaq to be used on them then they need to have players who make that a poor percentage play. If you know the choice is that there's a 60%+ chance of him scoring 2 points or a 50% chance of him making even one free throw it's going to keep happening.

[miami_fan]

While they are re-writing the rules so refs can make a judgement on whether a player is flopping or not, then also re-write the intentional foul rule to include the type of play.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

Oh I dunno, maybe a person playing at the highest level of basketball in the world should be capable of making more than 52% of free throws. This is what Dwight Howard needs to realize now before his career turns into getting hacked every time he touches the ball.

Regardless they can't change the rules to prevent it unless they want to change the rules so you can't be a 7'1 350lb monster that is just (or at least was) an impossible force to stop from going to the basket. If teams don't want the hack-a-shaq to be used on them then they need to have players who make that a poor percentage play. If you know the choice is that there's a 60%+ chance of him scoring 2 points or a 50% chance of him making even one free throw it's going to keep happening.

I think this is a fine line that the NBA does not want to come close to crossing. If Hack a Shaq is okay because he is an unstoppable force, then Hack a Tony Parker or Hack a Chris Paul can't be too far behind.

[Gary Gorski]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I think this is a fine line that the NBA does not want to come close to crossing. If Hack a Shaq is okay because he is an unstoppable force, then Hack a Tony Parker or Hack a Chris Paul can't be too far behind.

That's never going to happen. Who is going to hack Parker (71%) or Paul (85%)? The problem with Shaq is that there is a higher chance of him making the 2 pointer than there is him making 2 free throws. Parker and Paul both shoot about 49% from the field - why would you intentionally foul one of them when there's a 50% chance they're going to miss their shot but only a 15 or 30% chance that they're going to miss a free throw? How would you even do that? Hack them as soon as they cross half court?

Besides, Paul and Parker are not physical forces like Shaq is. The Suns could have a much better chance at stopping Parker if Steve Nash was capable of playing any defense and Amare had any idea on how to play help defense.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Gary Gorski

That's never going to happen. Who is going to hack Parker (71%) or Paul (85%)? The problem with Shaq is that there is a higher chance of him making the 2 pointer than there is him making 2 free throws. Parker and Paul both shoot about 49% from the field - why would you intentionally foul one of them when there's a 50% chance they're going to miss their shot but only a 15 or 30% chance that they're going to miss a free throw? How would you even do that? Hack them as soon as they cross half court?

Besides, Paul and Parker are not physical forces like Shaq is. The Suns could have a much better chance at stopping Parker if Steve Nash was capable of playing any defense and Amare had any idea on how to play help defense.

I am not looking at it from a free throw percentage point of view. I am talking about the idea that a team can't defend a player so they choose to foul him instead. I am thinking the Knicks under Pat Riley. The NBA has made it a point to try to take much of the physical play out of its game. I just see that strategy as having the potential to bring that play back into the league.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am not looking at it from a free throw percentage point of view. I am talking about the idea that a team can't defend a player so they choose to foul him instead. I am thinking the Knicks under Pat Riley. The NBA has made it a point to try to take much of the physical play out of its game. I just see that strategy as having the potential to bring that play back into the league.

It sounds like you are talking about fouling to hurt, which will lead to flagrants, ejections, and suspensions. That will never work. The only reason the Hack-a-Shaq works is that he can't shoot FT's, so the play saves the defense points. It won't save points with Paul or Parker.

[molson]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

I am not looking at it from a free throw percentage point of view. I am talking about the idea that a team can't defend a player so they choose to foul him instead.

You can't really have one without the other. Nobody gets "hacked" in this sense if it's a guaranteed 2 from the line.

There's nothing new here - this has gone on for the history of the NBA, and certainly Shaq's whole career. And even in the case of Shaq, it hasn't stopped him from making over 10,000 Field Goals over his career.

[DaddyTorgo]

Hack-a-Shaq wouldn't work if Shaq had any work-ethic and would have learned how to shoot FT's at some point over his whole damn career (particularly once it became a widely-used strategy). It's Shaq's fault that teams continue to employ this strategy...if he'd learn to shoot FT's then people wouldn't hack him. But he's a lazy fuck.

[Fidatelo]

What if they made it so that the person in possession of the ball at the time a foul occurs is the one that gets the shots? That would at least stop the stupid garbage where someone hugs Shaq while Nash brings the ball up court.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Fidatelo

What if they made it so that the person in possession of the ball at the time a foul occurs is the one that gets the shots? That would at least stop the stupid garbage where someone hugs Shaq while Nash brings the ball up court.

how bout if shaq took his job seriously and had some work ethic and learned to shoot FT's??

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

Hack-a-Shaq wouldn't work if Shaq had any work-ethic and would have learned how to shoot FT's at some point over his whole damn career (particularly once it became a widely-used strategy). It's Shaq's fault that teams continue to employ this strategy...if he'd learn to shoot FT's then people wouldn't hack him. But he's a lazy fuck.

Buy all accounts, he's spent a TON of time trying to improve at the line. Some guys, especially 7-Footers, just can't do it. Shaq's better than Wilt Chamberlain was at the line.

[Fidatelo]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

how bout if shaq took his job seriously and had some work ethic and learned to shoot FT's??

Ya I get it. In fact, I got it two posts ago.

Wait, what's your opinion again?

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

Buy all accounts, he's spent a TON of time trying to improve at the line. Some guys, especially 7-Footers, just can't do it. Shaq's better than Wilt Chamberlain was at the line.

well then he's SOL I guess.

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well then he's SOL I guess.

He's still actually had a pretty good career.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by molson

He's still actually had a pretty good career.

Yep. Some might even say he is the 2nd best center to ever play the game.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

well then he's SOL I guess.

Yeah, he is SOL and destined to finish his career with only 4 titles. Poor bastard.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

While they are re-writing the rules so refs can make a judgement on whether a player is flopping or not, then also re-write the intentional foul rule to include the type of play.

They need a rule like the NHL's diving rule. Also, any intentional foul on a player without the ball should be two free throws AND possession.

[Lathum]

If I was starting a basketball team today for 1 season I would take Duncan in a second.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Yep. Some might even say he is the 2nd best center to ever play the game.

I dont think anyone will ever do more then Kareem

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont think anyone will ever do more then Russell

Fixed

[Jas_lov]

They should NOT change the rules to cater to one person. Shaq can't make free throws and that's his problem, not Greg Popovich's. Hack a Shaq is a brilliant strategy. If they don't want the Spurs to do it, Shaq should make his free throws or the Suns should take him out of the game. I think the Suns fans suggesting the rule change are just sore losers. The Suns should have kept Shawn Marion. At least with him they could get out of the 1st round!

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Jas_lov

They should NOT change the rules to cater to one person. Shaq can't make free throws and that's his problem, not Greg Popovich's. Hack a Shaq is a brilliant strategy. If they don't want the Spurs to do it, Shaq should make his free throws or the Suns should take him out of the game. I think the Suns fans suggesting the rule change are just sore losers. The Suns should have kept Shawn Marion. At least with him they could get out of the 1st round!

Handchecking was a brilliant strategy as well. Why did they change the rule for that?

Look, no one is arguing that it is not a winning strategy. Hack a Shaq is a good strategy for winning basketball games and that is all Popovich is and should be concerned with. But it is BRUTAL to watch and goes against the type of free flowing up and down game that most people seem to enjoy the most. I don't see the joy in watching Jacque Vaughan wrap his arms around Shaq just as the ball is crossing half court. If I had to choose, I'll take the up and down action of the second half of last night's game where the Hack a Shaq was not employed over the play in the first half any day of the week.

And to be fair, I don't think any of the Suns fans on the board on asking for rule changes. To me, Hack A Shaq is an intentional and/or flagrant foul and should be called accordingly.