2008-2009 College Basketball Thread......

[JeeberD]

Watching my Miners for the first time this year, against a Georgia Southern team that beat Houston last week. It was see-saw most of the first half with GSU taking a 2 point lead at the half, but the Miners are pulling away now behind 29 points from sophomore stud Randy Culpepper...

[Karlifornia]

What were the pre-season odds for UNC winning the title? They have to be the heaviest favorites in years.

[Radii]

extremely entertaining finish between davidson and oklahoma here, OU only up 3 now with 45 seconds left.

Curry has 42 points, Griffin for OU with 25 points/20 boards.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

What were the pre-season odds for UNC winning the title? They have to be the heaviest favorites in years.

NCAA Tournament - Preseason Betting Lines

9:4 apparently. That's insane.

[INDalltheway]

So Arizona may have the dumbest players in the nation? Discuss...

[INDalltheway]

Dola

These announcers could be the dumbest in the nation also.

[INDalltheway]

Double Dola

Purdue is pretty darn good this year.

[MrBug708]

Fail

[Radii]

Originally Posted by INDalltheway

So Arizona may have the dumbest players in the nation? Discuss...

Just saw the highlights, that was... amazing? I dunno, that foul was something alright.

[Radii]

ESPN - Wrist injury will sideline North Carolina Tar Heels forward Tyler Zeller indefinitely

Doh. I have not been impressed with Zeller at all so far, but still, this isn't a good thing.

[Groundhog]

Patrick Mills has 27 points, 5 assists, and 6 steals in St. Mary's win over Fresno State.

[Wolfpack]

Originally Posted by Radii

ESPN - Wrist injury will sideline North Carolina Tar Heels forward Tyler Zeller indefinitely

Doh. I have not been impressed with Zeller at all so far, but still, this isn't a good thing.

Can I play a tune from the world's smallest violin for you?

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Wow, that was not fun at all. I would say my worst fears about the offense were proven true - other than Harris and the freshmen, our personnel doesn't fit it well (Lowe is phenomenal on fast breaks, but we don't seem to get any of those anymore and Gurley is a spot-up shooter who we're asking to beat guys off the dribble and pull up) but really, the offense is about being more athletic 1v1 than the man guarding you and there isn't a more athletic team in the country than Memphis. I mean, other than Kemp do you guys have a player shorter than 6'6 with a huge wingspan? Other than the 400-pd guy do you have anyone who can't run a 4.5 40 or jump 40"+? We turned the ball over 15 more times than we could afford to (it seemed 80% of your points first half were breakaway dunks) but that full-court press you guys were throwing out there was the most terrifying thing I've ever seen. You guys even have the better looking Calipari daughter attending your school.

I think your offense will improve. Memphis is just a really, really good defensive team. It is just hard to score when you have that much athleticism and length on the court. Also, UMass tried to come out running and gunning and just can't do that against Memphis. We could put Witherspoon, Anderson, Evans, Doizer, and Taggart on the floor and sit back in a zone. Niles, the big guy, has lost something like 60 lbs. Our one weakness is depth in the post. We have Doizer, Taggart, Niles and that is it. We have a couple of big men who are still waiting on academic elgibillity. I think our full court press may be better than last year, but we don't have the depth to make it 40 minutes of hell. Cal would never do that anway. We do have the better looking Cal daughter.

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I also wasn't a huge fan of the officials - too many ticky-tack fouls and carries/travels being called. I know they make it a point of emphasis early in the year and it falls off by conference play every year, but it's still annoying. Also, when it's still within 10 points in the second half or UMass is winning in the first, I'd appreciate the announcers paid a little attention to the game actually happening than talking about their All-American teams or games happening the next day.

There never seemed to be a good flow to the game. I would like to say Memphis shot the ball poor due to the late start and the officials calling everything. The announcers did seem to talk about everything about the game. There would be subitutions made and I would have no idea who came in for who. It was frustrating.

Was this series a home and home? Memphis will be fun to watch next year.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Wolfpack

Can I play a tune from the world's smallest violin for you?

OMG OMG OMG HANSBRO GINYARD AND NOW ZELLAR TEH SKY IT IZ FALLINGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[sooner333]

Was at the OU-Davidson game last night. What a performance by two very special players, who at what they do are the best in the country, without a doubt. Curry just has such a sweet touch and getting to the line 14 times proves that he is more than just a guy who shoots threes off screens. He had only 18 of his points on three-pointers...not even half. He can drive to the lane. Easily a Reggie Miller type guy in the NBA, moreso than a JJ Redick.

Griffin is a monster this year and he really seems to take it to a new level. He's so athletic and seems so much more in control and confident in his game at all times. He's currently averaging 23/19.3. Despite Dick Vitale not having him in his first or second team All-American list (and saying he needs another year or so), he will be a top-three pick.

[Radii]

heh wow, update on Zellar's status, exactly how much it changes UNC's title chances I would not think very much, but I feel bad for the kid:

ESPN - North Carolina Tar Heels' Tyler Zeller likely out for year with broken wrist

[Radii]

Originally Posted by sooner333

Despite Dick Vitale not having him in his first or second team All-American list (and saying he needs another year or so), he will be a top-three pick.

I don't think you get to go towards the 'no respect' card for Griffin here

ESPN - ESPN.com All-America Teams

Everyone else but Vitale has him on the first team at ESPN, and a couple guys pick him for national player of the year. More offensive than Vitale's selections may be Fran Frischilla's:

Blake Griffin, F, Oklahoma State

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

There never seemed to be a good flow to the game. I would like to say Memphis shot the ball poor due to the late start and the officials calling everything. The announcers did seem to talk about everything about the game. There would be substitutions made and I would have no idea who came in for who. It was frustrating.

Was this series a home and home? Memphis will be fun to watch next year.

I think it is a home and 'home'. Cal was quoted along the lines of "ESPN asked us to do a game with the A-10 and I told them I wouldn't do it home and home, but with Derek coaching there I agreed."

I still think the return game may be in Boston, or at least Springfield, and obviously Gonzaga and Kentucky have backed out of their agreements the past 2 years, but barring anything unforeseen, Cal won't do that.

[sooner333]

Haha, I wasn't trying to play no respect, more like Vitale is losing it. I mean, I could see him saying he might not be one of the top ten players in the nation just because he's a high pro prospect. But to have Mike Patrick offer up Blake when Dick is listing his top players and have him say "he needs another year or so" is on the brink of lunacy.

What do you think of Ford's system and do you think it will work at the big conference level? Mizzou's tried with Anderson from UAB (not sure exactly how the styles are different except for maybe Anderson is press based, and Ford is more up-tempo) with not so great results as of now.

[clemsonfan]

Clemson is looking good so far. Maybe they will have a good season!

Meanwhile, the Lady Tigers beat the Gamecocks last night! Woo hoo!

[MrBug708]

UCLA-Michigan about to start up. Whoever wins this game doesn't have a prayer of beating Duke if they get the same officials from the SUI game

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

UCLA-Michigan about to start up. Whoever wins this game doesn't have a prayer of beating Duke if they get the same officials from the SUI game

You mean the officials that came to the game in the Duke team bus?

[cmp]

Michigan up 4 with the ball and 15 seconds left.

[cmp]

Great win for Michigan.

[MrBug708]

SUI-UCLA is going to be one dull game, worse then this one.

Shipp is so bad for a 5th year senior, oh my

[Radii]

tsk tsk, so worried about preparing to blame the refs for future games that you forgot to wait til your team won the current one. Go Michigan!

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Radii

tsk tsk, so worried about preparing to blame the refs for future games that you forgot to wait til your team won the current one. Go Michigan!

Who did that?

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Radii

tsk tsk, so worried about preparing to blame the refs for future games that you forgot to wait til your team won the current one. Go Michigan!

Radii-

Bug can worry about the refs all he wants, and it won't affect the team. Since Coach Howland has come to Westwood, his teams have been nothing but classy, no-excuse players, which makes it even worse when they beat Stanford

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Radii

tsk tsk, so worried about preparing to blame the refs for future games that you forgot to wait til your team won the current one. Go Michigan!

Strangely enough, I can call out bad reffing even when it doesn't involve my team. And, of course, no one should know better than you what officials can be like with Duke.

Good game by Michigan tonight. Beilein really has a system that gives Howland teams fits--this is the third time in four games against Beilein teams that highly ranked UCLA teams have lost to them. Harris is a big time player, and there are some other guys who seem pretty decent, too. I hope they give Duke all they can handle.

As for UCLA, this team's a work in progress. The freshmen have a long way to go to get to where they can even approach replacing the depth we had last year. They'll get there, but it's going to take time. Well, except for Holliday, that kid can just flat play now.

As for the seniors and upperclassmen, really, only Collison showed up. Aboya was about what he is (so at least he didn't get worse). Shipp was just awful, showing he's essentially a worse player today than when he was a fireshman. Keefe was a non-entity, Roll was cringe-worthy at times, and Drago was making bad decisions all game. These guys are solid backups from past teams--this is their chance to grab a hold of their opportunities. If they don't, I don't have any qualms with letting the freshmen just all play and start building for next year.

I'm in a bind on Howland. You can't argue results, and he certainly gets them. But the inability to devise an offense that can attack a zone, any zone, and his rigid insistence on a boring passing attack that only results in miserable contested outside shots while the shot clock buzzer rings is a huge limitation on the potential of this team. This team has the kind of athleticism and guard/wing talent that they should be playing a pressure D and fast breaking every chance they get.

[MrBug708]

*sigh* Im with you Chief

[Karlifornia]

In a bind on Howland? Well, I can't defend you there. That's poor form. 98% of programs would love Ben Howland as their coach.

It's not every year you go through the preseason without a disappointing loss.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

In a bind on Howland? Well, I can't defend you there. That's poor form. 98% of programs would love Ben Howland as their coach.

It's not every year you go through the preseason without a disappointing loss.

Word. There are some programs where it seems like if the team doesn't go undefeated the fans are unhappy. I can't imagine what it would be like to root for a team with that level of expectations.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Mizzou managed to give Xavier a gift yesterday. Mizzou outplayed Xavier the whole game and then managed to make 1-9 free throws down the stretch to lose the game. Unbelievable wasted opportunity there. What was even worse was that 7 of those misses were by seniors.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Looks like Mizzou will face USC on Sunday as long as they don't get upset by the Mocs later today. Should be good matchup.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Who did that?

ignore me, just my frustration with the continuing proliferation of bitching about referees instead of actually discussing basketball. See last season's rant:

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - Official 2007-2008 College Basketball Thread

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

98% of programs would love Ben Howland as their coach.

Can you even name 7 that wouldn't?

Duke.

Ok, I'm done.

[GoldenEagle]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Word. There are some programs where it seems like if the team doesn't go undefeated the fans are unhappy. I can't imagine what it would be like to root for a team with that level of expectations.

It hurts really bad when you lose.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Word. There are some programs where it seems like if the team doesn't go undefeated the fans are unhappy. I can't imagine what it would be like to root for a team with that level of expectations.

Fans expecting undefeated seasons are crazy! To me its only a failed season if my team doesn't make the final four. Much more reasonable

[Radii]

Originally Posted by GoldenEagle

It hurts really bad when you lose.

Hurting in a loss and questioning the ability of a coach that has taken your team to 3 straight final fours to get the most out of his players is the big difference here I believe.

[DeToxRox]

What an absolutely huge win for Michigan.

If we play this game in December, it's a loss, but we had UCLA at the perfect time, and won an ugly game.

Is this a game that'll turn the program around right away? No. But this is a great resume game on the off chance we can get into the bubble picture.

I felt like this team was a year away from the dance, but it could happen this year if we can split these two games in two weeks with Duke, and hit B10 play 10-2.

From there a 10-8 record (plus a game vs UConn in Feb which could go either way) and 2 wins in the B10 tourney could seal Michigan for it's first tourney in a decade.

[Butter]

As a fan that's been there and done that (see University of Dayton, 2007-08 season), don't get your hopes up too high too early. One big early win does not a season make. There's a long way to go.

But it was a very good win for UM.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sooner333

What do you think of Ford's system and do you think it will work at the big conference level? Mizzou's tried with Anderson from UAB (not sure exactly how the styles are different except for maybe Anderson is press based, and Ford is more up-tempo) with not so great results as of now.

I'm not that enamored with Travis Ford's system on offense, especially with the 3-point line moving back. At UMass, he had 3 phenomenal players in Lasme, Freeman and Forbes leading the team, and he hasn't shown he can recruit big men at all. (He has been fantastic at recruiting/coaching Guards. I mean, Chris Lowe was an unrecruited borderline 2/3-star sitting there unsigned in August and he'll probably be UMass' all-time assist leader. Ricky Harris averaged 18 a game as a Sophomore, and David Gibbs has NBA-talent.) At the same time, I really believe getting athletes and then running pressure defenses and offenses that like to get out in the open floor and fast-break are what almost every team should be doing. Tennessee under Pearl, Memphis under Cal and even Kansas/UNC under Roy are big time teams I think have been very successful using this tactic.

Under the system, it's not even like we had good games and bad games, there would instead be horrific 10-minute stretches and great 10-minute stretches. Games were simultaneously exciting and frustrating to watch - it didn't matter if we were up 10 or down 10, the deficit would be reversed within 5 minutes. That'll probably excite the fanbase early on during the rise up, when making the NIT/competing for an at-large is considered an achievement, but will probably frustrate the fanbase and turn on him once they're expected to make the NCAA's. And of course whether he can recruit a legitimate big man is yet to be answered.

In another sense, it really doesn't matter - if the UK job opens up, he'll be jumping there in a second.

[MJ4H]

Izulde, did you catch Sanchezz going off for 12 and 12 last night when UC Davis pulled some size out to guard Rotnei. Those that were there were saying things like "looked great," "coming out party," and "not an oafish buffoon."

Shocking.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by MJ4H

Izulde, did you catch Sanchezz going off for 12 and 12 last night when UC Davis pulled some size out to guard Rotnei. Those that were there were saying things like "looked great," "coming out party," and "not an oafish buffoon."

Shocking.

Nope, I still haven't managed to get off my ass and get tickets yet.

Did we win last night?

And hey, maybe Sanchez won't totally suck snozberries after all.

....I'm calling this one a fluke, though.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

In a bind on Howland? Well, I can't defend you there. That's poor form. 98% of programs would love Ben Howland as their coach.

It's not every year you go through the preseason without a disappointing loss.

In a bind, as in, everything you say above is completely true, so it's disappointing that a guy that is such a terrific coach doesn't improve in this area. I'm certainly not advocating his removal. I just want to see problem areas addressed. For the most part, they are.

I don't see why it's poor form to criticize where there's room to criticize. Not like we don't give him enough plaudits.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Word. There are some programs where it seems like if the team doesn't go undefeated the fans are unhappy. I can't imagine what it would be like to root for a team with that level of expectations.

Aren't you a Patriots fan?

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by Radii

Hurting in a loss and questioning the ability of a coach that has taken your team to 3 straight final fours to get the most out of his players is the big difference here I believe.

Wow, really, you guys have taken one comment and really gone overboard here. No one here's in a mob mentality, let's hang Howland in efigy mode.

I'm not sure why it's such a big deal that a couple fans would be disappointed in one or two aspects of a team's coaching, even if it's overall very successful. Would an Indiana fan have been called out like this if he said Knight needs anger management lessons? Would a UNC fan be grilled because he thinks Williams' teams need to play better in Final Fours?

This is fair commentary here. Howland is a very, very, very good coach. I wouldn't give him up for anyone except Wooden, much less Coach K or anyone else.

That doesn't mean as I a fan can't point out a flaw or two that could use some work.

You guys really need to remind yourselves that the Internet is at best a sub-mediocre medium for the transfer of tone and context.

[Radii]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Would a UNC fan be grilled because he thinks Williams' teams need to play better in Final Fours?

2 final fours, 1 title where it matters. I'm quite fine with it.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Would an Indiana fan have been called out like this if he said Knight needs anger management lessons?

That's a completely different situation.

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

Would a UNC fan be grilled because he thinks Williams' teams need to play better in Final Fours?

Yes, absolutely. Michigan fans who bitched about Lloyd Carr were laughed at; LSU fans who have compared Les Miles to Larry Coker are ridiculed.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Nope, I still haven't managed to get off my ass and get tickets yet.

Did we win last night?

And hey, maybe Sanchez won't totally suck snozberries after all.

....I'm calling this one a fluke, though.

Yeah, we won by 9 or so. Led by 10 pretty much the whole way. Every time we'd push it to 15 they'd hit a series of treys to get right back in it. Never truly threatened, though. Fortson had more turnovers than assists and we were 1-14 from three point line. Weird game, but a win is a win.