Official 2008-2009 MLB Offseason Thread

[Mr. Sparkle]

Anybody but Pujos for NL MVP would have been a travesty.

hxxp://hotstove.mlblogs.com/archives/2008/11/reds_lose_affeldt_to_giants.html

Giants sign Jeremy Affeldt to a 2 year deal worth a reported $8 million.

[SackAttack]

Manny finishing 3rd in the voting actually sounds about right to me. He didn't deserve to win the award outright based on just two months, but he had such a dramatic impact on his new team that he did deserve to at least be part of the conversation.

[Crapshoot]

No way. Manny was amazing, but finished 13th in the league in VORP amongst hitters (again, a hell of an achievement in 1/3 of the season)- I think its fine to place him in your top 10, but the idea that he should be in the top 3 is ridiculous.

Its amazing - so far the association of nitwits known as the BBWAA hasn't fucked up an award - I have faith that they will give Morneau the MVP and continue on with their standard precedent however.

[BishopMVP]

Well, he did finish 4th if that's any consolation... and I'd say Brad Lidge getting 2 first-place votes (but no Cy Young votes?) is the bigger joke. Or maybe Jose Valverde and Stephen Drew getting any votes.

In potential trade news, the Red Sox are discussing dealing Julio Lugo to anyone that will take him Detroit for.... Dontrelle Willis? (Or maybe Nate Robertson.) The classic "devil you don't know" case I suppose. Although I did love this quote from another board

I'm actually surprised so many people support the idea of trading Lugo for Willis/Robertson. Lugo is athletic, versatile, a good baserunner, and has relatively decent on-base skills. At this point, he's basically Alex Cora, except he's athletic, versatile, a good baserunner, and has relatively decent on-base skills.

[Buccaneer]

I was thinking of something while going through m son's TSN issue. I have heard about Brad Lidge's amazing season and how he came back from devastation that took years to overcome. WTF? I had to look it up to make sure. He lost Game 5 of the 2005 NLCS, yet he had 3 saves in that series and his team ended up winning Game 6 and the ML Pennant. So he lost a game in closing situation - big deal, that happens to every closer out there. It was not like it cost his team a 1) playoff spot, 2) pennant or 3) world series. So why have they been making a big deal about what happened 3 years, when it wasn't that big of a deal to begin with?

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

I was thinking of something while going through m son's TSN issue. I have heard about Brad Lidge's amazing season and how he came back from devastation that took years to overcome. WTF? I had to look it up to make sure. He lost Game 5 of the 2005 NLCS, yet he had 3 saves in that series and his team ended up winning Game 6 and the ML Pennant. So he lost a game in closing situation - big deal, that happens to every closer out there. It was not like it cost his team a 1) playoff spot, 2) pennant or 3) world series. So why have they been making a big deal about what happened 3 years, when it wasn't that big of a deal to begin with?

Lidge was essentially unable to close games for the Astros after that. There was a repeated cycle of Lidge being ineffective as a closer and being demoted to the setup role where he would flourish and once again be given the closer's job. Rinse & repeat.

[RedKingGold]

I think the rumor goes that Lidge lost confidence in his curveball after the Pujols bomb and just threw fastballs. Hitters were able to get his timing down and shelled him several times. Phil Garner then messed Lidge up more by demoting/promoting him from the closer role.

After getting traded to the Phillies, Lidge done got his knee injured early in spring training. Lidge then developed that devestating slider, primarily to take pressure off of his knee while rehabbing and in his first early season performances.

Once that leg healed up, he was still able to get high speed on that fastball. However, developing that slider is what made him so effective this year.

[Hammer755]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

I think the rumor goes that Lidge lost confidence in his curveball after the Pujols bomb and just threw fastballs. Hitters were able to get his timing down and shelled him several times. Phil Garner then messed Lidge up more by demoting/promoting him from the closer role.

After getting traded to the Phillies, Lidge done got his knee injured early in spring training. Lidge then developed that devestating slider, primarily to take pressure off of his knee while rehabbing and in his first early season performances.

Once that leg healed up, he was still able to get high speed on that fastball. However, developing that slider is what made him so effective this year.

Nah, he's always had the wicked slider (he struck out 157 batters in 95 IP in 2004 largely because of it), but he did have trouble locating it in 2006. His Hit, BB and HR rates all increased significantly in 06.

There are two trains of thought locally regarding Lidge - one that it was a mental thing after the Pujols bomb in the 05 playoffs, but I think that the more logical conclusion was that he had some minor injuries over the past couple of seasons that limited his effectiveness.

[Buccaneer]

That's the part I don't get - why would Pujols blast effect him that much? It didn't cost them anything, except playing one extra game? Was he really young at the time?

[adubroff]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

That's the part I don't get - why would Pujols blast effect him that much? It didn't cost them anything, except playing one extra game? Was he really young at the time?

He also lost two games in the World Series.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

That's the part I don't get - why would Pujols blast effect him that much? It didn't cost them anything, except playing one extra game? Was he really young at the time?

I dunno, stuff like that can fuck a guy up real bad.

Is the wiki entry on Donnie Moore actually true? I didn't realize he shot himself after attempting to murder his wife. I thought it was just due to depression in some part due to the Hendu homer.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

I dunno, stuff like that can fuck a guy up real bad.

Is the wiki entry on Donnie Moore actually true? I didn't realize he shot himself after attempting to murder his wife. I thought it was just due to depression in some part due to the Hendu homer.

Yes, it's true. Moore had a lot of problems. It's also quite true, though, to say that his precipitous fall started with the swing of Dave Henderson's bat. It's a tragic story.

[Neuqua]

Cubs re-sign Dempster to a 4 year/$52 mllion dollar deal. Reasonable price. I'm happy.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

One writer voted K-Rod for MVP.

BBWAA: 2008 AL Most Valuable Player

[Fighter of Foo]

Put a warning on the link! NSFE

[stevew]

Scrappy hitter 4 MVP!

[miked]

He's got heart.

[ISiddiqui]

Wow. What a stunningly bad pick. And I thought Morneau's award was a crappy pick.

[Big Fo]

Not the best year for AL sluggers really. They should have kept the award and saved it for a later year when two guys put up monster numbers.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, but if they wanted to give it to a Red Sox, Youk was far superior of a choice. Personally, I'd think it wasn't a great pick if it was Youkilis, but I'd be ok with it.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Siddiqui - Two questions

1. Are you surprised? I had figured this was locked up since the end of the regular season.

2. If this pick is so egregious, who was egregiously passed over?

[Atocep]

Pedroia isn't a terrible pick. He was 3rd in the AL in VORP and 1st among position players in WARP. I can live with it since I was worried K-Rod would somehow end up walking away with the award.

If they truly wanted to give the award to the Most Valuable player, though, it would have been Mauer or Cliff Lee. The Twins didn't make the postseason, though, which means Mauer's season carried zero value. Cliff Lee was a pitcher on a .500 team, which means he wasn't even a real baseball player.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Siddiqui - Two questions

1. Are you surprised? I had figured this was locked up since the end of the regular season.

2. If this pick is so egregious, who was egregiously passed over?

I'm absolutely shocked. I think Pedroia really isn't as deserving as Quentin, A-Rod, or Mauer.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

You must not have read a lot of articles about it, then. From what I was reading, most thought it was Pedroia's to lose.

Quentin was done the moment he lost his season to a self-inflicted injury. A-Rod's going to have a tough time winning when his stats took a huge step back and his team missed the playoffs. Mauer is more debatable, but certainly not leaps and bounds ahead of Pedroia.

I do not think that Pedroia was the best player in the AL this year, but the writers have decided that that's not necessarily what the award is about.

[BishopMVP]

Objectively, I would have gone Mauer, Youkilis, Pedroia, 15 guys, Morneau. Subjectively I love it. Especially for having defended him against quotes like

Originally Posted by Keith Law

Dustin Pedroia doesn't have the strength or bat speed to hit major-league pitching consistently, and he has no power. If he can continue to hit .260 or so, he'll be useful, and he probably has a future as a backup infielder if he can stop rolling over to third base and shortstop.

Originally Posted by Keith Law near the end of last season

He's clearly better than I thought, but I don't think he's anywhere near this good. It's a bad swing, and he has very little power.

[samifan24]

There's a reason why Keith Law hasn't been picked up by any Major League team since he was let go by Toronto.

[molson]

I love it when people on message boards think they're scouts.

I think any of the top 3 would have been a good choice. Youkalis "feels" the most valuable to, but Mauer and Pedroia should get bonus points for the positions they play.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

Fantasy Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey - news, projections, cheatsheets, depth charts, draft guide - Rotoworld.com

Coco Crisp traded to the Royals for Ramon Ramirez. Any KC folk have a scouting report?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

Fantasy Baseball, Football, Basketball and Hockey - news, projections, cheatsheets, depth charts, draft guide - Rotoworld.com

Coco Crisp traded to the Royals for Ramon Ramirez. Any KC folk have a scouting report?

We picked Ramirez up off the scrap heap after an injury the previous season. He ended up being a very good pitcher for the Royals. 2.64 ERA with a 31/70 BB/SO in 71 innings. Hate to see him go, but the Royals have a lot of depth in the bullpen.

[Ronnie Dobbs2]

So who goes next, Teahan or Dejesus?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Ronnie Dobbs2

So who goes next, Teahan or Dejesus?

I think it's definitely Teahan. He's roughly the same player as Crisp (Teahan has a few more homers, Crisp has better defense). Teahan's definitely expendable at this point. I think they'll be asking a pretty high price for DeJesus.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

FYI......rumor around KC is that a trade involving Teahan and Felix Pie is being discussed between the Cubs and Royals.

[MikeVic]

I heard on the radio that the Yankees are going to offer a big contract to Burnett, and that the Jays are going after Milton Bradley.

[sterlingice]

That's the question. I think someone on RoyalsReview had this one pegged perfect. Just like the Jacobs deal, it looks good viewed in a vacuum- take a reliever, the most inconsistent position, and trade for a position player with some useful attributes. However, again, like Jacobs- Crisp has as many flaws as he has strengths so maybe it's just a wash.

But what has become quite evident is that this is a prelude to a larger move which is a shame because I think Teahen has value as a super-sub at all 4 corner positions and DeJesus is my favorite Royal, and one of the few "professional" hitters on the team who actually knows how to take a walk, work the count, and hit for a little pop.

For the Red Sox fans out there- Ramirez was a great reliever for us last year and will be a good addition to the pen. He's a little homer prone but otherwise, pitches well. Look out for injuries as the reason we got him for a song was because he had arm issues. But, he's young, under club control for quite a while, and someone you can trust in the back of the bullpen.

As a side note, I'm sure the fans will grill these trades next year when the bullpen isn't great like it was last year. However, that's more a product of it being an inherently volatile position to begin with.

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

FYI......rumor around KC is that a trade involving Teahan and Felix Pie is being discussed between the Cubs and Royals.

Seems like that has to be off the table now.

I'd still like this as part of a "master plan" to trade DDJ, one other major piece or Teahen, and a prospect or two for someone big and it's been lined up for a while now. If it's suddenly Feb 1 and these guys are still on the team and Moore has to sell them for pennies on the dollar, then this failed.

SI

[McSweeny]

i don't really think you can call Ramirez homer prone when he only allowed two homeruns in 71 innings last year

[sterlingice]

He did have 7 in his previous 80 innings, tho. I guess that's still not too bad of a ratio

SI

[Logan]

What kind of package would KC be looking for by giving up DeJesus that would actually benefit them?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Logan

What kind of package would KC be looking for by giving up DeJesus that would actually benefit them?

I can only think that Moore is looking to package him with others to get a bigger piece. We seem to be stockpiling replacement to somewhat useful players so we can kick out a couple for something bigger. So, no, all the talk of 3 B and C-level prospects don't get it done for DDJ. I think it's going to be DDJ+ for something not DDJ broken down for parts. Otherwise, why go through all this to rearrange the deck chairs on the Titanic?

SI

[Logan]

For your sake, I sure hope that's the plan. Trading him for younger guys would be tough to watch.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

That's the question. I think someone on RoyalsReview had this one pegged perfect. Just like the Jacobs deal, it looks good viewed in a vacuum- take a reliever, the most inconsistent position, and trade for a position player with some useful attributes. However, again, like Jacobs- Crisp has as many flaws as he has strengths so maybe it's just a wash.

Ehhh... it might make less sense because Crisp is only under club control for 2? years and won't be below-market after this one, but he's a much better player than Mike Jacobs. Above-average defensive CF'er with a .780 OPS last year when he was "struggling". Royals CF's were in the .640 range.

The numbers I've seen on Ramirez say 6 hr's in 51 IP at Coors and 3 in 155 elsewhere. Obviously, he's an injury-prone reliever, so this could end up looking foolish a couple months into the season (hello Gagne), but he seems like the best available reliever for the price.

I also really dislike the idea of moving Masterson to the rotation after this - his stuff doesn't play up as well in the rotation and he'd be league-average there, but he has the type of arm (easy delivery, power sinker) that can go 2-3 innings when needed and pitch back to back days to be an uber-reliever. Of course, it depends now on if Bowden/Buchholz/Masterson are traded for a catcher.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Ehhh... it might make less sense because Crisp is only under club control for 2? years and won't be below-market after this one, but he's a much better player than Mike Jacobs. Above-average defensive CF'er with a .780 OPS last year when he was "struggling". Royals CF's were in the .640 range.

Huh? What should have been the Royals main CF last year was DeJesus and he was at .818. However, I admit they had this fascination with trying to get Gathright and his .583 into the lineup every day and thusly bumping DeJesus to left where he's not nearly as valuable.

SI

[Dr. Sak]

Chase Utley will be out 3 to 5 months (from now) with hip surgery.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

Chase Utley will be out 3 to 5 months (from now) with hip surgery.

Yeah, just saw that. Supposedly, he had hip issues since early in the second half of the season which caused his numbers to drop off. I'm no scout, but watching his at bats at the post season, his swing did seem a little tighter than usual when compared to at-bats in April/May.

It's a significant blow, but I think it's an extended spring training this year due to the World Baseball Classic. So, hopefully, he'll have a lot of time to rehab before spring training and should only miss a month or so of the regular season.

Pedro Feliz also had back surgery today. He's expected to be out 8-12 weeks.

Lastly, the Phillies sent outfielder Greg Golson to the Texas Rangers for John Mayberry. I know that Golson was roughly a 3-star prospect (out of 5) who had really good speed. The only thing I can find for the reasoning is that Mayberry has more power.

Any Rangers fans or other people who know about Mayberry have anything to add?

[Fighter of Foo]

Mayberry is a talented corner OF who fails at hitting breaking stuff. Definitely needs more time in the minors even though he's getting old for a prospect. Mayberry was on the Rangers 40-man roster while I'm guessing Golson was not. Rangers (and everyone else) are sorting out their roster in preparation for the Rule 5 draft.

[RedKingGold]

I think Golson was on the 40-man roster, actually. I know he was called up last year and went 0-for-6.

Also, the Phils added a few guys to their 40-man roster, including their best pitching prospect Carlos Carrasco. Although he's got a lot to prove in spring training, the Phillies rotation will be fantastic next year if we re-sign Moyer and Carrasco is ready to go as the #4 or #5.

As far as replacing Utley during the early part of the season, I'd think that Bruntlett/Jason Donald will platoon the position until Chase is ready to come back.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by sterlingice

Huh? What should have been the Royals main CF last year was DeJesus and he was at .818. However, I admit they had this fascination with trying to get Gathright and his .583 into the lineup every day and thusly bumping DeJesus to left where he's not nearly as valuable.

SI

I mean, I completely agree Dejesus is a competent CF'er and he should have been playing there last year, which is why I had to check B-R and make sure Gammons didn't mess that number up. But if they weren't willing to put Dejesus in CF this year, and already said they'd go with him in LF and a prospect in CF next year, why would I count him as the primary CF? And it's pretty undeniable Coco is a better hitter than the Joey Gathright etc. pupu-platter the Royals used/were planning on using.

[Karlifornia]

Giants are gonna throw an offer to Sabathia....rumor has it as 6 years for 120 mil

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Giants are gonna throw an offer to Sabathia....rumor has it as 6 years for 120 mil

I assume this is in the hope that CC gets up to 350 lbs once he gets his money and eats Barry Zito.

[DeToxRox]

Dola ..

Does anyone actually forsee Sabathia not getting even fatter then he already is once he gets paid?

Dude is a great pitcher, but he isn't exactly a workout warrior, which scares me when he is about to get around 130 + mil.