2009 NCAA Tournament Thread - Page 10

sterlingice · 03-19-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

It doesn't matter because he missed but it looked like Maynor traveled on the last possesion

As I told someone on ICQ earlier tonight, I've seen more walking today than if I had gone to the mall and watched the elderly. And none of it is called. This goes back to my statement a couple of pages ago about how we need to "reset" officiating- call it by the book and to the letter from the NBA down to high school. Basketball would be unwatchable for a year or two but it would be for the best.

SI

Butter · 03-19-2009, 11:22 PM

I'm so confident Illinois is not coming back, I'm updating the Pick 5 sheet now and shutting 'er down.

MrBug708 · 03-19-2009, 11:23 PM

UCLA is methodical. They run their offense and defense. They don't panic when things aren't going right and just play their game. I don't think UCLA is that good overall but I also don't believe they will beat themselves. The problem with playing methodical is that an emotional team can beat them. Especially when they get their energy at the right time.

Neuqua · 03-19-2009, 11:23 PM

Illini got a gift there.

sterlingice · 03-19-2009, 11:24 PM

They've just never been in this game at all (Illinois)

As an aside, I need to start NCAA Tourney Watchers Anonymous. All night, I've had one game on the tv and had both of my laptops up. One for FOFC, Hattrick, and the like. The other with MMOD and a different game than is on tv

SI

mauchow · 03-19-2009, 11:25 PM

Down five and not fouling, we'll see if it pays off.

Wow, another bad call. A foul and ONE. JEEZ, this crew is really choking here.

Karlifornia · 03-19-2009, 11:26 PM

No foul on Illinois on that loose ball after Mendez-valdez missed the three? Wow.

Neuqua · 03-19-2009, 11:26 PM

That was pretty obviously a goal tend there.

Groundhog · 03-19-2009, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

As I told someone on ICQ earlier tonight, I've seen more walking today than if I had gone to the mall and watched the elderly. And none of it is called. This goes back to my statement a couple of pages ago about how we need to "reset" officiating- call it by the book and to the letter from the NBA down to high school. Basketball would be unwatchable for a year or two but it would be for the best.

I love it when we get import players over here fresh from college. It's almost gauranteed that they'll travel at least twice a game for half the season.

Karlifornia · 03-19-2009, 11:31 PM

At least we're getting two decent finishes after a day featuring mostly blowouts.

Noop · 03-19-2009, 11:32 PM

Illinois with the botched press.

cmp · 03-19-2009, 11:34 PM

Well that was my only missed game on my bracket today. Almost made it through perfect.

Lathum · 03-19-2009, 11:34 PM

and a 12 beats a 5 again

MizzouRah · 03-19-2009, 11:35 PM

Damn you Illinois!

Noop · 03-19-2009, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmp

Well that was my only missed game on my bracket today. Almost made it through perfect.

Just saw that. Pretty amazing first day for you.

Chief Rum · 03-19-2009, 11:38 PM

I was downstairs watching, instead of by the computer, so I didn't get to participate in the pbp here. But here are my thoughts on the UCLA-VCU game.

1. Bug's smoking something about the fouls. That was a fairly called game. Actually probably one of the better reffed games I have seen this year (keep in mind I usually have to watch Pac 10 refs). Only quibble is I think Sanders had six fouls, and he was only called for 4. The refs did tighten up a lot after the Glynn foul.

2. The sideshot on the Drago flop clearly showed Glynn's elbow catching Drago in the upper chest, and it looked hard. Drago went right down, and not of hios own volition, IMO. That said, the throat reach was big time overacting.

3. Maynor's a great player, and Sanders looks like he really has the athleticism to make a difference right up to the next level. That said, I certainly hope they thanked Enberg and Bilas for swallowing.

4. Holliday may have had some iffy moments, and missed a layup or two, like he does, but he showed why pro scouts love his game with some of the plays he made. I hope he comes back (he definitely needs to), but he probably won't.

5. No Malcolm Lee? Drew Gordon, who was reportedly ready to go, despite his bruised knee? Come on, Howland, Sanders was probably the only player on the court more athletic than either Lee or Gordon, and they could have really helped make a difference out there. Or at least given us energy when Enberg and Bilas kept saying "VCU just has mor elife than UCLA".

6. Great defensive play by Collison at the end. Glad he didn't go out on his college career with that block shot on him by Sanders.

Lathum · 03-19-2009, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmp

Well that was my only missed game on my bracket today. Almost made it through perfect.

2 of my money pools I only missed one game

wade moore · 03-20-2009, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

2. The sideshot on the Drago flop clearly showed Glynn's elbow catching Drago in the upper chest, and it looked hard. Drago went right down, and not of hios own volition, IMO. That said, the throat reach was big time overacting.

Yeah - that's all I was trying to say.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 03-20-2009, 07:15 AM

I said it a couple of weeks ago and I'll say it again. That loss to Illinois was an embarrassing loss for Mizzou. Illinois is NOT a very good team and they proved me right yesterday.

Logan · 03-20-2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

As I told someone on ICQ earlier tonight, I've seen more walking today than if I had gone to the mall and watched the elderly. And none of it is called. This goes back to my statement a couple of pages ago about how we need to "reset" officiating- call it by the book and to the letter from the NBA down to high school. Basketball would be unwatchable for a year or two but it would be for the best.

SI

They also finally called a carry on Maynor on a possession maybe midway through the 2nd. He was doing it damn near everytime, and I couldn't believe how high he was dribbling.

I haven't seen much of him (maybe one other game outside of his NCAA appearances) but despite the big efforts he puts in, I just don't love his game like a lot of others do. Maybe it's his lack of a consistent jump shot, he kinda has an awkward motion...plus I feel like he gets by on his athleticism as far as how easy he gets into the lane to score or dish it off.

wade moore · 03-20-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

They also finally called a carry on Maynor on a possession maybe midway through the 2nd. He was doing it damn near everytime, and I couldn't believe how high he was dribbling.

I haven't seen much of him (maybe one other game outside of his NCAA appearances) but despite the big efforts he puts in, I just don't love his game like a lot of others do. Maybe it's his lack of a consistent jump shot, he kinda has an awkward motion...plus I feel like he gets by on his athleticism as far as how easy he gets into the lane to score or dish it off.

The things you point out are why I don't buy him as an NBA player as much as other CAA people do. I think his athleticism and ability to take advantage of it made him a very, very good NCAA player. I'm just not sure that it translates to the NBA.

sterlingice · 03-20-2009, 07:39 AM

The draft is so weak this year, if you have any shred of a chance of getting drafted, this is the year to jump. I kindof feel a little sorry for any team that has a lottery pick for this year and was hoping to rebuild.

SI

Logan · 03-20-2009, 07:53 AM

Agree with both you guys.

edit: That's not to say there's not talent there. I like the NBA potential of guys like Griffin, Henderson, Thabeet, Blair, etc...I just wouldn't want to be taking them high as I don't know if any will be all-stars.

Mizzou B-ball fan · 03-20-2009, 08:36 AM

Would everyone please bow their heads with me?

Dear Lord,

Please let Mizzou be rid of the NCAA Tourney Ghosts of Boise Past. Let the 4.8 seconds of Tyus Edney hell and the Northern Iowa upset be blown away with two solid wins and a trip to the Sweet 16.

Amen.

(BTW, God is a Mizzou fan.)

wade moore · 03-20-2009, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterlingice

The draft is so weak this year, if you have any shred of a chance of getting drafted, this is the year to jump. I kindof feel a little sorry for any team that has a lottery pick for this year and was hoping to rebuild.

SI

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Agree with both you guys.

edit: That's not to say there's not talent there. I like the NBA potential of guys like Griffin, Henderson, Thabeet, Blair, etc...I just wouldn't want to be taking them high as I don't know if any will be all-stars.

Yeah. I think he (Maynor) could get drafted, I just don't necessarily think he'll be successful.

Of course, the last CAA player to enter the NBA has managed to pull down a salary much longer than I thought he would (Jose Juan Barrea of Dallas). Of course, he doesn't actually play.

cartman · 03-20-2009, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Would everyone please bow their heads with me?

Dear Lord,

Oh stop grovelling...

sterlingice · 03-20-2009, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah. I think he (Maynor) could get drafted, I just don't necessarily think he'll be successful.

Of course, the last CAA player to enter the NBA has managed to pull down a salary much longer than I thought he would (Jose Juan Barrea of Dallas). Of course, he doesn't actually play.

I know, we were arguing two different points- I agree with both. I was just kindof expanding on what you had said

SI

wade moore · 03-20-2009, 09:14 AM

Yeah, I know.

The VCU fans just get a bit out of their minds with their "first round pick, good NBA player" talk - so I have a bit of a chip about this issue.

adubroff · 03-20-2009, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Logan

Agree with both you guys.

edit: That's not to say there's not talent there. I like the NBA potential of guys like Griffin, Henderson, Thabeet, Blair, etc...I just wouldn't want to be taking them high as I don't know if any will be all-stars.

Most of the mocks I've seen have Maynor in the 20ish range, which is a good deal lower than where all those guys are except Blair. Blair has his own set of questions I think due to his odd size combo....

If he really goes in the 20s, his expectation of success would be pretty low. I'd be suprised if more than half the guys taken in that point of the draft are consistent starters....

muns · 03-20-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I said it a couple of weeks ago and I'll say it again. That loss to Illinois was an embarrassing loss for Mizzou. Illinois is NOT a very good team and they proved me right yesterday.

They didnt have frazor and I think they have him, they win that game. Tough to loose your leader and expect stuff to get correctly in the first game without him. Granted I agree that they arent that good, but I highly doubt they loose that game with him.

RedKingGold · 03-20-2009, 10:43 AM

Scottie Reynolds has a lot to prove in the matchup with Collison after struggling in the Big East Tourney and against American.

However, the key is going to be Cunningham and Anderson. Based on what I've read and what I saw last night, the UCLA interior is just not that good.

However, if both settle for jumpers (as they did in the first half last night) instead of driving to the basket (as they did in the second), UCLA could blow Nova out.

spleen1015 · 03-20-2009, 11:16 AM

Wow. SFAU has a starter at 5 foot 3 inches tall.

sterlingice · 03-20-2009, 11:18 AM

Game on

SI

GoldenEagle · 03-20-2009, 11:32 AM

I was 15 of 16 yesterday, only missing the Butler/LSU game.

molson · 03-20-2009, 11:37 AM

Onuaku might be the worst free throw shooter I've ever seen.

And one point earlier this year he had made 1 out of his last 19.

MizzouRah · 03-20-2009, 12:15 PM

Wanted to watch Mizzou.. too bad I'm not going to get out of work early..

Dr. Sak · 03-20-2009, 12:20 PM

I know this has nothing to do with basketball but I get chills everytime I hear The Masters' music on CBS.

Lathum · 03-20-2009, 12:21 PM

Utah St has done a nice job of staying in the game despite being outplayed

Karlifornia · 03-20-2009, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr. Sak

I know this has nothing to do with basketball but I get chills everytime I hear The Masters' music on CBS.

Does the theme song for "Murder, She Wrote" also give you chills?

Dr. Sak · 03-20-2009, 12:22 PM

Nope

Augusta National is one course that seeing it on TV doesn't do its beauty justice.

Karlifornia · 03-20-2009, 12:34 PM

SFA's coach looks like Fred Goldman.

Radii · 03-20-2009, 01:03 PM

come on north dakota state!

JonInMiddleGA · 03-20-2009, 01:11 PM

Tennessee playing almost exactly like the whole season. Shooting better than usual but otherwise it's the season in a nutshell.

JonInMiddleGA · 03-20-2009, 01:16 PM

Yep, feels like watching a replay.

Karlifornia · 03-20-2009, 01:19 PM

Utah State up 6 on Marquette. Come on, Aggies!

JonInMiddleGA · 03-20-2009, 01:28 PM

Tied at 72 with a minute left, Okie State gets three offensive rebounds leading to a 74-72 lead. What a shock against a team that had players waving to family in the stands during a timeout earlier.

Lathum · 03-20-2009, 01:29 PM

coming down to some great finishes

spleen1015 · 03-20-2009, 01:30 PM

Go Tennessee!

Go Utah St!!

spleen1015 · 03-20-2009, 01:30 PM

Lathum · 03-20-2009, 01:31 PM

what a drive by Eyton

03-19-2009, 11:22 PM	#452
Butter Coordinator Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Dayton, OH	I'm so confident Illinois is not coming back, I'm updating the Pick 5 sheet now and shutting 'er down. __________________ My listening habits

03-19-2009, 11:23 PM	#454
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	Illini got a gift there. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

03-19-2009, 11:24 PM	#455
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	They've just never been in this game at all (Illinois) As an aside, I need to start NCAA Tourney Watchers Anonymous. All night, I've had one game on the tv and had both of my laptops up. One for FOFC, Hattrick, and the like. The other with MMOD and a different game than is on tv SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!" Last edited by sterlingice : 03-19-2009 at 11:25 PM.

03-19-2009, 11:26 PM	#457
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	No foul on Illinois on that loose ball after Mendez-valdez missed the three? Wow. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

03-19-2009, 11:26 PM	#458
Neuqua Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Chicago, Ill	That was pretty obviously a goal tend there. __________________ Our Deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, 'Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous?' Actually, who are you not to be?

03-19-2009, 11:23 PM	#453
MrBug708 Head Coach Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Whittier	UCLA is methodical. They run their offense and defense. They don't panic when things aren't going right and just play their game. I don't think UCLA is that good overall but I also don't believe they will beat themselves. The problem with playing methodical is that an emotional team can beat them. Especially when they get their energy at the right time.

03-19-2009, 11:25 PM	#456
mauchow Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Murfreesboro, TN	Down five and not fouling, we'll see if it pays off. Wow, another bad call. A foul and ONE. JEEZ, this crew is really choking here.

03-19-2009, 11:31 PM	#460
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	At least we're getting two decent finishes after a day featuring mostly blowouts. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

03-19-2009, 11:32 PM	#461
Noop Bonafide Seminole Fan Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Miami	Illinois with the botched press. __________________ Subby's favorite woman hater.

03-19-2009, 11:34 PM	#462
cmp Pro Rookie Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Grand Rapids, MI	Well that was my only missed game on my bracket today. Almost made it through perfect.

03-19-2009, 11:34 PM	#463
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	and a 12 beats a 5 again

03-19-2009, 11:35 PM	#464
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Damn you Illinois!

03-19-2009, 11:38 PM	#466
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I was downstairs watching, instead of by the computer, so I didn't get to participate in the pbp here. But here are my thoughts on the UCLA-VCU game. 1. Bug's smoking something about the fouls. That was a fairly called game. Actually probably one of the better reffed games I have seen this year (keep in mind I usually have to watch Pac 10 refs). Only quibble is I think Sanders had six fouls, and he was only called for 4. The refs did tighten up a lot after the Glynn foul. 2. The sideshot on the Drago flop clearly showed Glynn's elbow catching Drago in the upper chest, and it looked hard. Drago went right down, and not of hios own volition, IMO. That said, the throat reach was big time overacting. 3. Maynor's a great player, and Sanders looks like he really has the athleticism to make a difference right up to the next level. That said, I certainly hope they thanked Enberg and Bilas for swallowing. 4. Holliday may have had some iffy moments, and missed a layup or two, like he does, but he showed why pro scouts love his game with some of the plays he made. I hope he comes back (he definitely needs to), but he probably won't. 5. No Malcolm Lee? Drew Gordon, who was reportedly ready to go, despite his bruised knee? Come on, Howland, Sanders was probably the only player on the court more athletic than either Lee or Gordon, and they could have really helped make a difference out there. Or at least given us energy when Enberg and Bilas kept saying "VCU just has mor elife than UCLA". 6. Great defensive play by Collison at the end. Glad he didn't go out on his college career with that block shot on him by Sanders. __________________ . . I would rather be wrong...Than live in the shadows of your song...My mind is open wide...And now I'm ready to start...You're not sure...You open the door...And step out into the dark...Now I'm ready.

03-20-2009, 07:15 AM	#469
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	I said it a couple of weeks ago and I'll say it again. That loss to Illinois was an embarrassing loss for Mizzou. Illinois is NOT a very good team and they proved me right yesterday.

03-20-2009, 07:39 AM	#472
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	The draft is so weak this year, if you have any shred of a chance of getting drafted, this is the year to jump. I kindof feel a little sorry for any team that has a lottery pick for this year and was hoping to rebuild. SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

03-20-2009, 07:53 AM	#473
Logan Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: NYC	Agree with both you guys. edit: That's not to say there's not talent there. I like the NBA potential of guys like Griffin, Henderson, Thabeet, Blair, etc...I just wouldn't want to be taking them high as I don't know if any will be all-stars. Last edited by Logan : 03-20-2009 at 07:56 AM.

03-20-2009, 08:36 AM	#474
Mizzou B-ball fan General Manager Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Kansas City, MO	Would everyone please bow their heads with me? Dear Lord, Please let Mizzou be rid of the NCAA Tourney Ghosts of Boise Past. Let the 4.8 seconds of Tyus Edney hell and the Northern Iowa upset be blown away with two solid wins and a trip to the Sweet 16. Amen. (BTW, God is a Mizzou fan.)

03-20-2009, 10:43 AM	#481
RedKingGold College Starter Join Date: Oct 2002	Scottie Reynolds has a lot to prove in the matchup with Collison after struggling in the Big East Tourney and against American. However, the key is going to be Cunningham and Anderson. Based on what I've read and what I saw last night, the UCLA interior is just not that good. However, if both settle for jumpers (as they did in the first half last night) instead of driving to the basket (as they did in the second), UCLA could blow Nova out. Last edited by RedKingGold : 03-20-2009 at 10:43 AM.

03-20-2009, 11:16 AM	#482
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Wow. SFAU has a starter at 5 foot 3 inches tall.

03-20-2009, 11:18 AM	#483
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Game on SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

03-20-2009, 11:32 AM	#484
GoldenEagle Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Little Rock, AR	I was 15 of 16 yesterday, only missing the Butler/LSU game. __________________ Xbox 360 Gamer Tag: GoldenEagle014

03-20-2009, 11:37 AM	#485
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	Onuaku might be the worst free throw shooter I've ever seen. And one point earlier this year he had made 1 out of his last 19.

03-20-2009, 12:15 PM	#486
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	Wanted to watch Mizzou.. too bad I'm not going to get out of work early..

03-20-2009, 12:20 PM	#487
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	I know this has nothing to do with basketball but I get chills everytime I hear The Masters' music on CBS.

03-20-2009, 12:21 PM	#488
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	Utah St has done a nice job of staying in the game despite being outplayed

03-20-2009, 12:22 PM	#490
Dr. Sak Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Stuck in Yinzerville, PA	Nope Augusta National is one course that seeing it on TV doesn't do its beauty justice. Last edited by Dr. Sak : 03-20-2009 at 12:23 PM.

03-20-2009, 12:34 PM	#491
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	SFA's coach looks like Fred Goldman. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

03-20-2009, 01:03 PM	#492
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	come on north dakota state!

03-20-2009, 01:11 PM	#493
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Tennessee playing almost exactly like the whole season. Shooting better than usual but otherwise it's the season in a nutshell. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-20-2009, 01:16 PM	#494
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Yep, feels like watching a replay. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis

03-20-2009, 01:19 PM	#495
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	Utah State up 6 on Marquette. Come on, Aggies! __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

03-20-2009, 01:28 PM	#496
JonInMiddleGA Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Behind Enemy Lines in Athens, GA	Tied at 72 with a minute left, Okie State gets three offensive rebounds leading to a 74-72 lead. What a shock against a team that had players waving to family in the stands during a timeout earlier. __________________ "I lit another cigarette. Unless I specifically inform you to the contrary, I am always lighting another cigarette." - from a novel by Martin Amis Last edited by JonInMiddleGA : 03-20-2009 at 01:28 PM.

03-20-2009, 01:29 PM	#497
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	coming down to some great finishes

03-20-2009, 01:30 PM	#498
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Go Tennessee! Go Utah St!!

03-20-2009, 01:30 PM	#499
spleen1015 Coordinator Join Date: Sep 2003	Wow.