NBA Draft Lottery/Draft/Offseason thread.

[TheOhioStateUniversity]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess you haven't watched his coaching decisions for the last 4 seasons?

Do we even need to spell this out, I mean, are you the only fellow Cavs fan that actually thinks he doesn't need to be gone after the playoffs this year?

I love the way you articulated your position but did you notice that you didn't answer my question in your attempt to insult my intelligence? At any rate I think calling for Mike Brown's head is premature. Yes the season ended in disappointment, but to call that team loaded is an overstatement. In addition, Mike Brown seems to have good rapport with LeBron and as long as LeBron is still on board and Danny Ferry can make a major move in the offseason; I think the Cavs will be ready to take the final step next year.

[Balldog]

It was Mike Brown's fault that everyone not named LeBron took the series off. He told Mo Williams, Delonte West, and Ilgauskus to throw up a bunch of bricks.

Duh.

[RainMaker]

It is his fault for not doing what the Lakers did and just force the Magic to beat them from the free throw line.

[stevew]

Didn't mean to be dickish

He has shown no ability to make adjustments at halftime
They get killed in the 3rd quarter of big games.

He still has no offensive system in place.

His player assortments are often very questionable. I know the roster sucks but Andy and Ben from last year was bad.

His team blew several 20 point leads to Orlando

They don't play uptempo enough. Though the players they have would seemingly thrive in that type of environment

He got outcoached by SVG. That's laughable.

They got embarrased by 2009 Dwight Howard. 2011 Dwight Howard I could see. But he's not there yet.

You can't fire the players. In pro sports someone needs to take the fall for a debacle.

I could probably come up with several other reasons, but to keep it short, keeping around a mediocre at best head coach is not going to win a title.

[digamma]

Back to the topic at hand, Gani Lawal pulled out of the draft and will return to Georgia Tech for his junior season.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

You mean 1992 when Mike Dunleavy Sr was slightly pushed to taking the job with the Bucks after leading the Lakers to the FINALS the previous year and getting them to the playoffs the next year despite losing Magic Johnson right before the 91-92 season due to his HIV announcement?

Dunleavy sucks.

(Time don't change that)

[stevew]

Maybe ferry is as much or more at fault. I've had a blind hatred of him since they traded my favorite player for him when I was a kid. So I tend to be way too nice to his decisions because I feel I'm overly biased against him otherwise

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

Maybe ferry is as much or more at fault. I've had a blind hatred of him since they traded my favorite player for him when I was a kid. So I tend to be way too nice to his decisions because I feel I'm overly biased against him otherwise

How funny. My hatred of all things Danny Ferry goes back to Duke, but the way he played out his brief day or so with the Clips, or whatever it was, I'll hate him forever for that alone. And yet that was a good trade for us.

[stevew]

The best explanation I heard for that trade was that Harper was supposedly surrounded by some very shady people and they were afraid of an embarrassing incident and/or perhaps he was a coke head. It is very hard to find too much insider type info from the pre internet era.

[RainMaker]

It feels like a lot of underclassmen fringe 1st rounders are sticking with the draft. Mills is coming out and while I like his game, it's such a deep draft for point guards that he would benefit from another year in college. Elonu from A&M is staying in the draft and I'm hoping he got a guarantee from a team for the 2nd round. Daye is staying and is a mid first rounder who has potential to drop if things don't go his way on draft day. Meeks is maybe a mid 2nd rounder.

There are a slew of others too. I just don't remember a draft that had this many underclassmen who should have stayed in college.

[Chief Rum]

Originally Posted by stevew

The best explanation I heard for that trade was that Harper was supposedly surrounded by some very shady people and they were afraid of an embarrassing incident and/or perhaps he was a coke head. It is very hard to find too much insider type info from the pre internet era.

Yeah, I always sorta wondered why the Clips were able to get an athletic wing guard (back then, Harper had some terrific hops and good quicks) for a guy like Ferry, but I had been confused for years by all the mad Duke love in the NCAA, so what did I know?

It's too bad Harper hurt his knee about a year in (IIRC). He was an exciting addition to a team that had Danny Manning, Charles Smith, Kenny Norman and Gary Grant. Okay, and Benoit Benjamin (cringes). With Larry Brown coaching.

[Chief Rum]

Hey steve, it was probably something even more shady, like they had a thing against basketball players with lisps.

[stevew]

Anyways, they broke my freakin hart.

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Samdari

I am stunned that the expectations for Cavs fans can be higher than Eastern conference finals.

You do realize that there is exactly one above average NBA starter on that team, right? And that not even the likes of Michael Jordan or Wilt Chamberlain, nor even the exalted Kobe Bryant won titles when they had that caliber of talent around them.

This is as far as teams with one great player go. To expect more is to not understand the NBA.

Hakeem did, though...

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It feels like a lot of underclassmen fringe 1st rounders are sticking with the draft. Mills is coming out and while I like his game, it's such a deep draft for point guards that he would benefit from another year in college.

Mills would be a lottery selection next draft, I'm very surprised he stuck in the draft. He'd have to be awful confident he's going 1st round.

Daye is staying and is a mid first rounder who has potential to drop if things don't go his way on draft day.

Based on what I saw of him in college, I'll be absolutely shocked if Daye ever develops in to a worthy rotation player.

Meeks is maybe a mid 2nd rounder.

Dumb.

There are a slew of others too. I just don't remember a draft that had this many underclassmen who should have stayed in college.

To be fair, outside of the PG position, a lot of guys returned to school as well that would have been likely late-lottery picks this year.

[RainMaker]

I just hope those guys are getting guarantees. Mills for example could easily put himself in line to be a top 10 or even top 5 pick next year. Daye has the potential to be a good player, but really needs a ton of refinement and some strength. He'd be a huge project for a team.

I guess I don't see the advantage of going pro if you aren't a first rounder. You don't get a guaranteed deal and you'll probably end up in the NBDL. Another year in college and some big time TV exposure means a good chance you move up in the draft.

It seems the current NBA isn't as patient with "projects" as they used to be. If you aren't showing big improvement in a year or two, you're just a 11th or 12th man for life. Makes me wonder if guys like Patrick O'Bryant had stayed in school and gotten the experience of playing 35 minutes a night along with some good coaching, they would be starters in the NBA right now and not lifelong 12th men.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by stevew

I guess you haven't watched his coaching decisions for the last 4 seasons?

Do we even need to spell this out, I mean, are you the only fellow Cavs fan that actually thinks he doesn't need to be gone after the playoffs this year?

What decisions could he have made that would turn out better than best record in the league and conference finals?

HE HAS ONE GOOD PLAYER.

Put LeBron in: Good Move.

Take LeBron out: Bad Move.

What other "good coaching" moves are available to the guy. Compared to where some alltime NBA greats got with one man teams, this Cavs team has overachieved.

I get that they have one more year to try to win the title. LeBron needs help, and in the form of someone who can shoot, pass, rebound or defend. Changing the guy with the clipboard is not going to do it.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

I'm excited to watch the draft this year. Both DeMarre Carroll and Leo Lyons have a good chance of being drafted. I'm pretty sure Mizzou has never had two players drafted in the same year. Early 80s would likely be the only time it might have happened with Stipanovich and Sundvold.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Hakeem did, though...

At least in 1994, to be sure

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by RainMaker

It feels like a lot of underclassmen fringe 1st rounders are sticking with the draft.

...

There are a slew of others too. I just don't remember a draft that had this many underclassmen who should have stayed in college.

Well, it's a gamble but it's a notoriously weak class. Some guys who are coming out now and have a chance at being a 1st rounder next year may not even be drafted or at least not until the 2nd round. It seems like a reasonable gamble because at least being a 1st round player you have a shot at sticking because you're a 1st round pick and you get guaranteed cash.

SI

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

I'm excited to watch the draft this year. Both DeMarre Carroll and Leo Lyons have a good chance of being drafted. I'm pretty sure Mizzou has never had two players drafted in the same year. Early 80s would likely be the only time it might have happened with Stipanovich and Sundvold.

Those are the only two first rounders, but surely you mean drafted together at all, as Lyons has zero shot at the first round.

[wade moore]

I'm curious to see where VCU's Eric Maynor goes. I insisted midway through the season to a bunch of VCU fans that there is NO way he's a first round guy, but it appears that this class is so weak that he just might be.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Those are the only two first rounders, but surely you mean drafted together at all, as Lyons has zero shot at the first round.

Right. I was talking about the draft in general, not solely the first round. I think Carroll is a borderline 1st round selection depending on what teams are looking for. As you mention, Lyons will be a late second rounder most likely, though he could go undrafted.

I'm not a huge NBA fan. Is the NBA draft somewhat like the NFL in that there is some advantage to being undrafted and being able to pick your team as opposed to being drafted late and being stuck with that team? I get that impression, but wasn't sure. I know the 1st round gets guaranteed money, so that's obviously a big advantage for them.

[Logan]

I think guys have seen a lot of 2nd round picks come into the league and do well, reaching free agency after 2 years (or at least restricted status - not 100% sure how it works) and getting nice deals. The mindset surely is if you think you're good enough where you'll be a 1st round pick next year, that means I'm good enough to go this year and contribute.

[Arles]

Originally Posted by Groundhog

Mills would be a lottery selection next draft, I'm very surprised he stuck in the draft. He'd have to be awful confident he's going 1st round.

Earliest I've seen Mills go is 34 to Denver and the current NBADraft.net projection has him at 37 to San Antonio. This may be the worst decision by any player in the draft.

On the positive side, Nic Wise is coming back to Arizona giving the Cats a very good chance at a top 4-5 finish in the Pac-10 (something unthinkable two months ago).

[Easy Mac]

If Stephen Curry were white, he would be called JJ Redick v 2.0. He is the exact same player, minus the college.

[JohnnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

If Stephen Curry were white, he would be called JJ Redick v 2.0. He is the exact same player, minus the college.

Uhh, totally different players. Redick was no where near the ball-handler, natural passer or even pull-up midrange shooter that Curry is. Redick had no where near the ability to make the players around him better that Curry does. Curry can finish off his drives, Redick never really showed he could. Redick was a shooter, Curry is a basketball player with a great jump shot. Then again, I think Curry is going to have a pretty good NBA career and it seems I'm in the minority on that here.

[Arles]

The biggest problem I have with Curry is that he's not a true point and can't defend NBA SG. So, either he pairs up initially with a Jason Kidd sized PG or you are extremely limited defensively. If he can become a natural point, I think he could be a nice player - but that looks doubtful right now.

To me, he's a poor man's Leandro Barbosa and I'm not sure that's worth a top 10 pick.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by JohnnyBGood

Uhh, totally different players. Redick was no where near the ball-handler, natural passer or even pull-up midrange shooter that Curry is. Redick had no where near the ability to make the players around him better that Curry does. Curry can finish off his drives, Redick never really showed he could. Redick was a shooter, Curry is a basketball player with a great jump shot. Then again, I think Curry is going to have a pretty good NBA career and it seems I'm in the minority on that here.

Did you even watch Duke basketball while Redick was there? He drove to the lane all the time and was suprisingly effective off the dribble.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

The biggest problem I have with Curry is that he's not a true point and can't defend NBA SG. So, either he pairs up initially with a Jason Kidd sized PG or you are extremely limited defensively. If he can become a natural point, I think he could be a nice player - but that looks doubtful right now.

To me, he's a poor man's Leandro Barbosa and I'm not sure that's worth a top 10 pick.

I'm not sure I see a better fit for D'Antoni's offense in the draft. Certainly fantasy-wise, he'll be one of the 2 best players next year if he goes to NY.

In other PG news, Brandon Jennings is a g.

Originally Posted by http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/scott_howard-cooper/06/12/jennings.rubio/index.html

"Yeah, I think I'm a better player than he is. I just shoot the ball better than he can. I think the dude is just all hype. I can't even front. I'm just going to be real with you guys."

I don't know if he's ever going to fit in or excel in the NBA, but I really wish he was at Arizona last year - just ask Derrick Rose how it's done - and it would have made that team 10x more exciting.

Also, for the 4th time in as many seasons, UMass has a player with a chance to 2nd round. Tony Gaffney is a 6'8 high-energy player who could find a role as a clean-cut Birdman. It would be an awesome story because he was 6'0 before his senior year of HS and only got minor minutes at BU before transferring to UMass after his sophomore year. He was so lightly regarded that he wasn't even given a scholarship and played intramurals that year and people were openly questioning why he was given a scholarship the next year (last year). Then this year he averaged 10 rebounds, 4 blocks and 2 steals a game as our only legit post presence. I'm not sure he's better than Stephane Lasme, who got some NBA playing time and is now doing well in Europe, but he does have a better shot and handle, so maybe he can stick in the right situation.

[JohnnyBGood]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Did you even watch Duke basketball while Redick was there? He drove to the lane all the time and was suprisingly effective off the dribble.

Yes. He was more effective off the dribble his senior season, but he camped on the three point line his first 3 years. Did you even watch Curry these past 2 seasons? Him and Redick are not comparable at all.

[Atocep]

Originally Posted by Arles

The biggest problem I have with Curry is that he's not a true point and can't defend NBA SG. So, either he pairs up initially with a Jason Kidd sized PG or you are extremely limited defensively. If he can become a natural point, I think he could be a nice player - but that looks doubtful right now.

To me, he's a poor man's Leandro Barbosa and I'm not sure that's worth a top 10 pick.

Is there much of a difference between what Juan Dixon was coming out of Maryland and what Curry is now?

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

I'm not sure I see a better fit for D'Antoni's offense in the draft. Certainly fantasy-wise, he'll be one of the 2 best players next year if he goes to NY.

He certainly won't have to play any defense Like I said, he's a nice Barbosa-lite and would be a decent fit in NY. I just don't know that I would use a top 10 pick on him.

Originally Posted by Atocep

Is there much of a difference between what Juan Dixon was coming out of Maryland and what Curry is now?

I wouldn't want to spend a top 10 pick on Dixon either. I think Dixon went around 17-20 and that's about where Curry should go, IMO (maybe even 15-20). I think Curry will be better than Dixon, but that isn't a terrible comparison.

[stevew]

I bet quite a few 2nd rounders make it this year. There's less and less awful bench player deals than in the past. With the lux tax and general lack of monies it will be easier to keep rookies than signing an LLE guy.
I would think the Cavs will attempt to stash a guy in Europe.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Arles

He certainly won't have to play any defense Like I said, he's a nice Barbosa-lite and would be a decent fit in NY. I just don't know that I would use a top 10 pick on him.


I wouldn't want to spend a top 10 pick on Dixon either. I think Dixon went around 17-20 and that's about where Curry should go, IMO (maybe even 15-20). I think Curry will be better than Dixon, but that isn't a terrible comparison.

Juan Dixon went 17th and was better than at least 7 players drafted ahead of him 2002 NBA Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . While Curry may not have the potential of a Jrue Holiday or Earl Clark, he's also about as close to being a sure thing rotation/niche player on a championship-caliber team you're gonna get beyond Blake Griffin. Minimum, he's JJ Redick - who just played a role on an NBA finals team - and if he can master PG he can be an all-star. I think he can, others disagree, but that still leaves a great shooting 2-guard.

[stevew]

I'd say Hersey Hawkins might be a better comparison for Curry?

Similar tweener size, can put the ball in the net(major scorer in college). Never was a true star star, but averaged over 20 a couple times.

Hersey Hawkins Statistics - Basketball-Reference.com

I don't think Curry will play nearly as much defense, Hawkins averaged about 2 steals a game. Curry will probably be a better three point shooter.

[Big Fo]

Orlando's president has come out and said that the team will be willing to pay the luxury tax in order to keep Turkoglu.

[Icy]

The Spanish press is saying today that Oklahoma has hired the most prestigious Spanish Lawyers firm to investigate about Ricky Rubio's release clause and incoming lawsuit. Rubio has filled a lawsuit versus his actual team to lower his release clause.

He signed a contract for a $100k yearly payment and a $5.5Million release clause that he must pay to end his contract early.

There are precedents of other sport men winning similar lawsuits as even if they agree and sign a contract like that, the huge difference between the salary and the release clause makes it illegal, and usually the judge lowers that release clause to something more fair (that should be around $3M).

Oklahoma seems really interested on him at #3 and that is why they want to know everything about the Spanish laws to avoid any future problem.

[Icy]

Dola, taking a look at draftexpress... i think they didn't take the best pic from Griffin for their article...

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Icy

The Spanish press is saying today that Oklahoma has hired the most prestigious Spanish Lawyers firm to investigate about Ricky Rubio's release clause and incoming lawsuit. Rubio has filled a lawsuit versus his actual team to lower his release clause.

He signed a contract for a $100k yearly payment and a $5.5Million release clause that he must pay to end his contract early.

Didn't his buyout get raised during the past season too? If he thought he was going to declare for the NBA, why would he have signed any new contract?

[MikeVic]

I like Curry for whatever reason, and will be following his NBA career. Wishing the best for him. I don't know how good or bad of a pro he'll be though.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Icy

Dola, taking a look at draftexpress... i think they didn't take the best pic from Griffin for their article...

Agreed. I think these probably a bit more appropriate. He looks pretty imposing in this one........



This one shows off his agility..........



And this one shows that he's a good team player........

[Arles]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Juan Dixon went 17th and was better than at least 7 players drafted ahead of him 2002 NBA Draft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . While Curry may not have the potential of a Jrue Holiday or Earl Clark, he's also about as close to being a sure thing rotation/niche player on a championship-caliber team you're gonna get beyond Blake Griffin. Minimum, he's JJ Redick - who just played a role on an NBA finals team - and if he can master PG he can be an all-star. I think he can, others disagree, but that still leaves a great shooting 2-guard.

Drafting a 6-2 non-PG with limited upside isn't a good value recipe for a top 10 pick. In his 7-year career, by far Dixon's best season was a 12.3 PPG, 2.0 APG, 43% FG (38% 3) effort in Portland. For his career, he's a 41% FG shooter (34% 3).

The fact that he's better than Euro washouts Jiri Welsch and Nikoloz Tskitishvili doesn't mean he was a great pick. At 17, he was fine, but if Dixon would have gone 9 it would have been a terrible pick.

I think Curry could be a nice Dixon/Reddick type in the pros, but those guys usually go in the 20s - not 9th overall.

I would rather take a shot on a player with the potential to be great like Jonny Flynn, DeMar DeRozan or Earl Clark in the top 10 instead of taking a guy who is basically Eddie House if things go well.

[Groundhog]

Is there any way that Jrue Holiday gets top-10 pick consideration if not for the success of Russell Westbrook last season?

[DeToxRox]

So apparently the Pistons promised Ben Gordon 11 million a year. There's always been a rumor that Joe D loves Gordon. If he signs him, and at 11 mil per no less, I'll slit my eyes out.

The other rumor is then Rip would be traded for the Wizards for #5.

Another rumor is Amir Johnson and #15 for David Lee or Paul Millsap.

Of the three options, I'd love getting D-Lee or Millsap, but knowing Joe D we'll get Gordon.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

So apparently the Pistons promised Ben Gordon 11 million a year. There's always been a rumor that Joe D loves Gordon. If he signs him, and at 11 mil per no less, I'll slit my eyes out.

The other rumor is then Rip would be traded for the Wizards for #5.

Another rumor is Amir Johnson and #15 for David Lee or Paul Millsap.

Of the three options, I'd love getting D-Lee or Millsap, but knowing Joe D we'll get Gordon.

What's up with Joe D going from the best exec (or one of them) in the game, to being very questionable. Was a lot of his success luck?

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

What's up with Joe D going from the best exec (or one of them) in the game, to being very questionable. Was a lot of his success luck?

Honestly, yes.

He lucked into Ben Wallace. He want John Amachi but Orlando wasn't going to give him up.

He made some good deals getting Rip and Sheed, and Stuckey was a solid pick. Tayshaun was a good pick too but he has become exposed by his lack of aggressiveness offensively and on defense he isn't the elite defender he was thought to be now that Ben isn't there.

I liked the Chauncey deal and stand by we wouldn't have done much with him this year with him, but it seems like there is no plan in place since we got rid of him. I mean seriously, if we sign Gordon we're going to have Stuck at the Point again. He cannot be a PG in the NBA. At least not on a championship team.

And now, our best player, Rip, might be out the door for a pick so we can sign Ben Gordon. If that happens, Joe D really needs to seen that leash shorten because it'll look like another destructive move.

He won't rebuild the right way. He just thinks he can keep putting band aids on and it's catching up to him.

[stevew]

McFail out in Minnesota. Hopefully he never gets a job with any authority again. He should basically be a roving big man instructor. Dwight Howard would be wise to spend the summer with him.

[RainMaker]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

So apparently the Pistons promised Ben Gordon 11 million a year. There's always been a rumor that Joe D loves Gordon. If he signs him, and at 11 mil per no less, I'll slit my eyes out.

The other rumor is then Rip would be traded for the Wizards for #5.

Another rumor is Amir Johnson and #15 for David Lee or Paul Millsap.

Of the three options, I'd love getting D-Lee or Millsap, but knowing Joe D we'll get Gordon.

That's a lot of cash for Gordon. Maybe he's assuming he doesn't have a shot at LBJ, Wade, and Bosh and is going to focus on the next tier.

[Groundhog]

Ben Gordon should never be your #1 option on offense.